Episode 66: Anna Heiny - Winning the Indy Mini at 23 Weeks Pregnant

Episodes

Jul 26

Anna Heiny, who raced as Anna Rohrer, is an eight-time All-American at Notre Dame, a two-time Foot Locker national champion, and won the Indy Mini while pregnant with her first child.

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About this episode

Anna Heiny grew up in Mishawaka, won the Foot Locker national cross country championship twice in high school, one of those after breaking both navicular bones, and became an eight-time All-American at Notre Dame while earning a neuroscience degree and a master's. She ran professionally for the Boston Athletic Association, stepped away because of a back injury, and then qualified for the Olympic Trials in her very first marathon in Green Bay. Ten weeks before we recorded, she won the Indy Mini at about 23 weeks pregnant.

We talk about the gym teacher who told her she could be really good, her injuries and comebacks, and how she learned to train on her own terms by being OK with missing a workout and training by time and effort. Anna also co-founded Dream Fuel, which coaches leaders on mindset using neuroscience, and she shares two tools she has used since high school: visualization and reframing anxiety as excitement.

In this episode, we discuss

Still running at 33 weeks pregnant and winning the Indy Mini 10 weeks earlier
Pro runners who came back faster after having kids
Growing up in Mishawaka with two older brothers who swam
A seventh-grade gym teacher who told her to try cross country
A freshman-year stress fracture and finding out she had low iron
Breaking both navicular bones, a wheelchair, surgery, and five months of no running
Winning Foot Locker nationals as a sophomore and again as a senior
Choosing Notre Dame and coach Matt Sparks
Third at NCAAs, the Notre Dame 10K record, and a bulging disc
Earning a neuroscience degree while competing at the highest level
Signing with the BAA during the pandemic and leaving Boston
Hitting the Olympic Trials standard in her first marathon in Green Bay
Training on her own terms with time- and effort-based workouts
Co-founding Dream Fuel and using visualization and reframing anxiety as excitement
Coaching runners, travel, bread baking, and 4-H cake decorating

Chapters

Intro
33 weeks pregnant and still running
Growing up in Mishawaka
Finding running in seventh grade
High school injuries and Foot Locker titles
Choosing Notre Dame
All-American ups and downs
Running for the BAA
Stepping away and coming back
A first marathon and an Olympic Trials time
Why she skipped the Trials
Dream Fuel and the mental side of running
Coaching runners
Travel, baking and cake decorating
Mantras and next finish line

Where to find Anna

Instagram: @coachannarohrer
Instagram: @annarohrer97
Next Level Racing with Anna Rohrer

Mentioned in this episode

Races: Indy Mini, Foot Locker Cross Country Championships, NCAA Championships, Green Bay Marathon, Carmel Half Marathon, Boston Marathon, US Olympic Marathon Trials, Indiana Women's Running Festival, 8 Hour Endurance, Houston Half Marathon, New York City Half Marathon
Organizations and charities: University of Notre Dame, Boston Athletic Association, Dream Fuel, St. Vincent Sports Performance
Other: Endure by Alex Hutchinson, Ellie St. Pierre, Molly Seidel, Napoleon Hill

Previous guests mentioned

Related episodes

Frequently asked

Who won the Indy Mini while pregnant?

Anna Heiny, the former Notre Dame All-American who raced as Anna Rohrer, won the Indianapolis Mini-Marathon at about 23 weeks pregnant with her first child.

How did Anna Rohrer qualify for the Olympic Marathon Trials?

Anna Heiny, then Anna Rohrer, hit the Olympic Trials qualifying standard in her very first marathon, the Green Bay Marathon, after stepping away from professional running with the BAA because of a back injury.

What is Dream Fuel?

Dream Fuel is a company co-founded by Anna Heiny and Kevin Bailey that coaches business leaders on mindset using tools backed by neuroscience and sports psychology.

Support this show

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically, so it may contain errors.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones with Ally Brettnacher. Incredible stories and tales of triumphs with everyday people achieving their goals and fitness. This podcast brought to you by Athlete Bouquets. Celebrate finish lines and milestones of the people that you love by visiting athletebouquets.com. Hello and welcome to episode 66, This is Ali Bretnacher. I am currently in South Haven, MI just wrapping up our family vacation and before that was in Grand Rapids with with one of my best childhood friends, Rachel Waterbury, who actually recorded the intro of this podcast. She's on the radio in Grand Rapids, 103.5 Hot FM, and our daughters are close in age, so we took them out for their birthdays in Grand Rapids, which was a blast, and then came to South Haven to spend time with my family, my sisters, their husbands, our kids, and I'm exhausted, probably need a vacation from vacation, but you all know how that goes.

I got a chance to get in a couple of runs here out to the lighthouse in South Haven, which is just beautiful. It was really nice. I hope to get one more in before we head out and get back to school early in August. So here in Carmel, our schools start August 5th, which is just wild. So summer is pretty much done. And I want to also draw your attention to something very exciting happening to Gordon Strain, who was episode 43 of this podcast. He is running with bipolar on Instagram and he is a movie producer. So his film company, Pegasus Productions, is premiering a film in Indianapolis called The Duel this coming Sunday.

So the Sunday after this comes out. And he was so kind to invite me and my husband Zach to go, which I'm really looking forward to. I've certainly never been to a movie premiere. And then also attending will be Nate Spangle, who was episode 47 of this podcast. He is actually the reason I was introduced to this week's guest, Anna Rohrer. So he introduced me to Anna. We grabbed coffee. I knew I had to have her on the podcast. She is currently now 35 weeks pregnant. She was about 30-3 weeks at the time that we recorded. But Anna ran for the University of Notre Dame.

She's an 8 time all American. She's about to be a first time mom. She has been a pro athlete. She was a 4H fair cake decorator, loves to travel, loves to cook. And I just loved hearing all about Anna's story and how she Co founded a company called Dream Fuel and they help executives and business leaders really with mindset and making them better leaders. And so Anna gives a couple examples of that during this episode that I think really come in handy for running and just life in general. So. I hope. Everybody enjoys this conversation with Anna Rohr. Hi, Anna. How's it going? Hey, I'm good.

How are you? Good. What's the fruit or vegetable size of your baby this week? It's funny, I was just looking at that today 'cause it was an it's a new week, so we're at butternut squash size. Perfect. Yeah. So I'm sure we can conceptualize with that. I'm like trying to picture what a butternut squash looks like. I don't know if I've ever actually bought 1 myself. Well, it's about let's see, a foot and 1/2. 4. Pounds around there, 5 lbs maybe. So he's getting up there. Getting to the end. And So what weak number is it for you? 3333, All right. And just 10 weeks ago, you won the Indianapolis Mini Marathon.

No big deal. Yeah, that's wild. It's been 10 weeks already. Yeah, it is actually. It's flown by the time and hopefully you feel like it's kind of flown by while being pregnant. I feel like it's the longest 40 weeks of your life. And then also when it's done, you're like, wow, that went so fast. Yeah, I feel like it was slow at the beginning. And now when my husband Nick and I look at the the things that need to be done in the next seven weeks, we're like, oh, wow, OK, seven weeks. That's not very long, right? It might. It might be less too. Right.

Yeah, you never know. But good. I'm glad you've been able to keep running. Are you still running now? I am still running now, yeah. Slowing down probably won't be running the same pace I did for the half marathon, but still running, yeah. Yeah, and I loved getting a chance to see you at the Indianapolis 5K and Monumental Mile. You did the 5K and then turned around and did a mile too, which is just amazing. It's amazing that you can still run too pregnant. It's different for everybody and for me, I my first pregnancy, I did the mini while I was pregnant. I can't remember how many weeks I was, but it was, I mean, you know, I was visibly pregnant and then with my second pregnancy and then I stopped right after that.

And then with my second pregnancy, I went like all, almost all the way being active, but I didn't run for nearly as long. You never. Yeah, that's what I just remind myself of that every day because there are days when like I'm tired, I'm going to cut it short. Or just recognizing my pace is getting gradually slower, but just being like, well, I'm just really grateful I can still do this and still feel good. Yeah, so awesome. So I'm assuming in the seven weeks you don't have any more races on your calendar? I do not know. You know, you never know. It's a fair, it's a fair question.

Yeah, and what is your actual due date? August 30th. August 30th. OK, Yeah. So you could just come do the Indiana Women's Running Festival Half Marathon on the 31st. You know, if you haven't given birth. I know there's the what, 8 hour endurance this weekend, Yeah. You just go in and do a celebrity lap. Yeah, yeah, no big deal. I know I I'm not going to be out there this weekend, but I have never done 8 hour endurance. Have you participated in that event before? I have not. Yeah, it sounds really fun and especially having a team to do it, kind of like a relay format would be kind of cool.

Oh yeah, yeah, it'd be neat. Yeah, something. Maybe someday, but not the year. Not the year for it. Yeah. And so you've been you've been an aunt for quite a while. And so now you're you're up. How are you feeling about motherhood and also being an elite athlete like that has to be tough. But watching all these incredible women come back from giving birth and having kids is pretty inspiring. Yeah, I think the Olympic trials going on right now is just so timely because there are so many mothers. I mean, Ellie St. Pierre in particular is like one of the newest moms that has been doing just outrageously well, setting records and qualifying for two Olympic teams and everything.

But just knowing it's, it's going to be a process and I accept that. And we're going to have to switch up our routine a little bit to figure it all out. But it's something that's important to me. And so I know that my husband and I together are going to figure out a way and get the support we need, work with the, you know, the right physical therapists and doctors and everything. And just get me back to where I want to be and everyone tells me I'll be faster, so I'm counting on that. You know, it's so interesting. I'm faster than I was before, before becoming a mom.

It took me a while to get there just, I mean, just because I finally have a coach and I'm doing things right. But yeah, I mean, it's it's incredible watching. Yeah. Again, these women who are are faster afterwards. I think the inspiration you get from your children and wanting to set that example pulls a lot. I mean, that's really motivating to show them what you're capable of as their mom. But yeah, bodies are nuts. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty amazing what the body can go through and bounce back. Yeah, it's, it's absolutely wild. So, well, I'm so excited for you guys. And it's a boy, right?

Said boy. Yeah. Do you have the nursery done and everything? No, we're actually moving in a couple weeks and so we. Jeez, Anna. Yeah, yeah, there's some things couldn't have been prevented, but yeah, so ask me in a couple weeks. Right. And then hopefully it's done. Finish. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the good news is, is right away when you bring them home, you don't need, you don't need a nursery, right? Like you just need a bassinet and that's it. You're good to. Go. So we'll yeah, we'll figure it out, but it'll be it should be an easy move too. We're we're not. Not moving very far or Yeah.

OK. Well, that's good. Awesome. Well, good luck with all of that. Thank you. And do you have your parents, Are your parents still up north in South Bend area or are they closer? My parents are in South Bend. My husband's parents are in Fort Wayne. Fort Wayne, OK. So they're, they're coming to help with the move and after and then I have we have some, he has some cousins and I have one of my brothers is here. Nice. Yeah. It's great having family close and South Bend and Fort Wayne. Yeah, like 1 1/2. Like what's Fort Wayne? An hour and a half, A little less, maybe like 3 hours.

Those are. It's not bad. Well, either of them. You think move closer after you have a baby or since you're second in the family to have kids, will it? Not necessarily. I don't think either of them will be moving here. I think it's more likely we'll probably make a move in a couple years. OK. But none of that's been completely hashed out. Yet First things first. Yeah, yeah, 'cause we've got some other family members both in Fort Wayne and South Bend, so I think they'll probably stay put. Yeah, yeah, it's hard. Like once you for us, we have my parents and my in laws are here and so it's like why would we ever leave?

I mean having that family really close is is really helpful and so nice so but people do it without, I don't know how, but people are. I think I think short term will be fine, but when there's maybe more than than one child in the equation we we might reevaluate. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So and you are from South Bend originally? Yeah, technically Mishawaka I always South Bend. Because I always kind of lump them together too. Yeah, a lot of. And depending on where you're from in Indiana or elsewhere, people don't know Mishawaka as much. So right. Yeah. Yeah, I think I told you my husband is went to high school at Mishawaka Marian.

Oh, that's right, yeah. So and my aunt used to live up there. I have a lot of family from Fort Wayne, so I'm still there. So I'm somewhat familiar. My dad is also a Notre Dame grad. Oh yes, that's right. And I said this to Shay Aquilano, but I did not try nearly hard enough in high school to actually end up at Notre Dame. I really looking back, wish I would have perhaps done things differently, but you know, everything adds up to where it is now, so it's all good. But how did you end up going to Notre Dame, especially being from South Bend? Yes, it it was actually a hard decision because it was so close to home.

Just knowing I had opportunities to go anywhere else in the country. And it was hard for me to accept at first that Notre Dame was the best fit. Just like I love my family and but I didn't want to stay quite that close for college. So after I took all my official visits, it was just so clear that it was the best fit for the people. The of course, the education, the faith aspect of it. And I just knew they had just gotten a new coach that year who's still there, Matt Sparks. And I knew he was, he was going to be a really good coach for what I needed.

I don't need a coach to push me hard. I need a coach to help me like re rein me in at times. So he's he was a great coach to have. So it was like all those factors together. And then as I progressed through college, the, I think the first few years I didn't really go home much because I wanted to make sure I could be on my own, have the college experience and I'd see my family at meets and everything and I, you know, go home for breaks and everything. But the last few years then once I kind of established myself, it was really nice to be close to home and just be able to visit, be able to, you know, meet my mom for lunch or something once a month if I wanted to.

Like, yeah, it was nice. Well, it's nice if you have family too that respects that boundary and it's like, OK, yeah, go do your thing. And then when you decide you would like to come home or, yeah, grab lunch, you're like, hey, I'm right here. It's better than having to drive 3 hours to go home or whatever, right? Yeah. Did you run growing up? How did you end up in the sport to begin with? Yeah, I did not really run growing up. I guess I ran track in like 4th and 5th grade because it was the first sport you we could do at the school and my friends did it.

But I hated competing. I was just, I would get so nervous that it really wasn't any fun. But I the practice part was fun. Yeah. Do you? Remember what type of events they did at that age, Kind of your typical running events or. It was your typical running events. The only one that was different was we. I remember there was a shuttle run where you literally like you run like A50 and you tag someone's hand and then they run back and it was. Kind of. Kind of a cute thing for the kids, but I ran. I think I did long jump at one point. I did the 200, I did the 800.

It's just like, you know, figuring out what you're good at. And really I wasn't that great at any of them. It was pretty middle to back of the pack I think. But then it was it was in 7th grade. I then got more into swimming and volleyball OK at that point, but in 7th grade my gym teacher pulled me aside after running the mile and told me that she's like, I don't know how good you are at volleyball, but I think you should really consider going out for cross country and track because you could be really good at it. And that was probably the first time someone had told me I could be really good at a sport.

I was, I was, I was a really strong swimmer, but I didn't get hand eye coordination until I was like 12. And so leaning into that, I was like, oh, I don't, you know, I don't know what I'm good at, but for someone to tell me like you could be really good at this was encouraging. And then I went out for track and just really loved it from there. I hadn't really enjoyed running previously, but seeing that I was good at it and making friends on the team made made a really big difference in it. Yeah. It's interesting that as a 4th or 5th grader, you didn't stand out at that age.

I guess just to your point, like growing into your body, getting that coordination probably made a lot of difference. Yeah, yeah. And I had a friend that we'd run together a few days a week this summer going into 7th grade, because we were both trying out for the volleyball team and you had to run a lot at tryouts. So we run together and everyone would always talk about how hard running is. And so to me, what I, what I made of that was that every time you run, you're supposed to run really hard. So I'd go run like 2 miles, I don't know, three, maybe four days a week, just like as fast as I could.

And it was, I hated it. It was. It was not fun. Sounds horrible. But I was like, I want to do well for this, this tryouts, like I'm going to do it. And ultimately running as fast as you can, like every other day when you're 12 get you fast pretty pretty quickly. So I think that was what helped me do well. And then I but I just never really trained for anything to see the talent in it. Yeah, yeah. That would make a big difference. That's so funny. Yeah. So did you favor track or cross country at that point in your life, or did you like both of them for different reasons?

I think I've always liked cross country just a little more like track's fun because of the variety that you can do. But there's something just about the fall weather with cross country and the different courses you can go to that I feel like it has always been a little, little better in my mind. Did either of your parents run at all growing up? They did not, no. My dad runs now. I don't think he loves it, but he he does it to to be in shape. But no, neither really. No one in my family is a runner. OK. And then do you have siblings? You do because you're an aunt.

Yes, two older brothers. OK, yeah. And they, they didn't run. They were primarily swimmer, swimming and soccer. OK, so they'll run now again just to like be in shape, but I don't think they particularly love running, Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean as much as you, obviously. Yeah, Yeah, that'd be tough. How much? What's the age difference between you guys? We're all two years, two years, OK. Yeah, well, that'd be nice having two older brothers growing up. Yeah, yeah, I'm very great. I mean, we always got along as kids, but as an adult now, I feel like I'm more grateful for having brothers, seeing how it kind of shaped me to be able to hold my own a lot of ways.

Yeah, right. I mean, growing up with two boys, so different than I'm the oldest of three girls, so like way different. In my family there's not very many boys. And so so it's funny you're having a boy. I know you at least have a nephew. Do you have any nieces? Are there any girls in? Your Yeah, I have. In my my side of the family, we have my oldest brother. He has one son and then they have their third daughter on the way any day now. Wow. OK, that's nuts. Yeah. And then my my husband has a niece and a nephew. OK, fun. Yeah. So we're evening out the ratio.

Yeah, it's a son. Gosh, OK, let's move to college. Well, no, let's not move to college yet because you did some incredible things in high school. So at what? So you said you started in 7th grade, realized you were good. So then did you run all four years of high school doing both track and cross country? I did well ideally I did. I had quite a few injuries like my my freshman year cross country. I was the the top on the team, but then I got I broke my foot halfway through the season and. When you say break your foot do you mean stress fracture or was it more?

It was a stress fracture in like 4 different places. So it was, it was aggressive, fairly severe, Yeah. So only ran half the season and then I made it to stay in track. But it was that summer between my freshman and sophomore year that I made a pretty big jump in my fitness and my running ability. I had I had really low iron. I found out, started taking iron supplements for the first time, started doing a little more cross training. And then I was able to run with the guys more because I think before I was kind of in the middle ground where it was a little slow with the girls, but it's too fast with the guys.

And then suddenly I was like, wow, OK, I have enough energy to run with the guys. So got a lot faster than my sophomore year. I was healthy all year and then my junior year broke both of my feet, both navicular bones, like the arch bone. So I was in a wheelchair for I think the wheelchair was for about six weeks. I got surgery and then it was about 5 months of no running before I came back. So very long, long days across training and waiting and patience, but. What was it like being in a wheelchair like during high school? Those are hard years of your life.

Like, I just picture you having to like, wheel yourself into class or like, carry your books around and miss a prom or something. I don't know. Did how did that impact you? Yeah, I mean, truly, it was one of the most humbling experiences of my life because I had one. My sophomore year, I'd won the state meet, I had won the Foot Locker national meet. And that was the expectation to do it again, not just from myself, but from my school, from like the state, from the country. And then, and it was kind of abrupt to where I had had some foot pain and then, but I wasn't walking.

I didn't have a boot or anything. And then went to the doctor and found out and it was like, OK, boom, next Monday you got to be like, you need to get surgery as soon as possible. You need to be in a wheelchair. So it was, it was difficult because there were just so many questions that people had. And, you know, I don't want to just ignore. I'm not going to, I'm going to talk to people. But it was hard because it it wasn't like I could just, you know, show up and people knew what was going on. Nobody knew. So I'd explained it a lot.

And yeah, it was tough, but my mom would remind me. My mom taught at the school and she would remind me like, and people want to help you. I'm very independent and a lot of things. And to just allow people to like, help me with my books and do these things for me was really hard. So it was a good, yeah, it was just a really good period of growth. But you know, something I would never wish to go back to. Yeah, Yeah, that would be, that'd be really rough. And then you made it back your senior year, and then what happened, senior? Year, Yeah, yeah, that was that was like, that's probably my favorite race that I've ever run was the Footlocker championship my senior year.

Even state, though that year I hadn't, I had some regression in my feet the summer going into my senior year. So like I miss cross country junior year, ran track and then had to take the summer off. So the state meet was like one of the first time, I think the first time I even raced in spikes and like went all out. So it's really exciting to see how well I could run with a lot of cross training basically. But to win again, my senior year was just, it was really special to to get, I guess, be able to prove it to myself that I could do that and be proud of the just such the mental and physical grind of cross training and waiting and trusting.

But it was a lot more. So I knew that that could be such an inspiration to people that have injuries. And I actually had a teammate in college that had the exact same thing happen. And to be able to just be there with her and say, you know, you can get past this and it's you're going to be better because of it. So I knew it was like, it was so tough, but I knew that could really be used for, you know, a greater good. So for people who might not be familiar, because a lot of people who listen to this are like me, they're just, they just like to run, not professionals by any stretch of the word.

What is Footlocker? Yeah, Footlocker is well, it used to be one of two national championships that they host for cross country in high school. I think there's like I think pretty sure there's a third one now out there, but it's one of the longest standing like well known ones. They take their four different regions that you have to you go. So I'm in the Midwest region, so I went there in Wisconsin and qualified. I was the top ten at that race. So the top 10 qualify for the national meet. So there are only 40 people in the race and it's forty of the top, the fastest people in the country.

It's out in San Diego, which is really nice. And in December. And yeah, then so whoever wins that would be the Foot Locker national champion. That's so cool. What an incredible achievement. Yeah. To come back from both feet, not just one. That's wild to me. And so are you more susceptible now for injuries back in the same place or like what do they do with the surgery? Like how do I don't? I don't know anything. Yeah, well, we didn't know it was a it was a gamble even with surgery. I think it was like a 75% chance of it not happening again even with surgery.

But I, I mean, we are blessed in Indianapolis with some of the greatest track and field doctors and physicians and trainers and such. So I actually, you know, I'm from Ishwaka. So I came to Indy, Doctor Porter did my surgery who's like the, he's the orthopedic surgeon for the Colts for Notre Dame football. He's like one of the best of the best. And then the, some guys at Saint Vincent's Sports performance were just monumental in that injury. And then like so many others throughout high school and college, but they helped me figure out it was Doctor Arnold and then Scott Hudson or the was the doctor and then the athletic trainer that helped me figure out why it happened instead of just like, OK, get surgery and heal.

So the surgery went super well, but then it was like the next step is well, how do we prevent this from happening again? So they helped me change my foot strike, which is really training the brain to figure out how to have your foot hit the ground differently. They help me with so many drills and strengthening exercises. And ultimately after I said I had a little bit of regression in it the summer after it happened, but then really since then I haven't had any foot issues. So, so going on almost 10 years now. Yeah, that's great. Thank goodness. And the drills and stuff had to be so hard.

I don't know, as As for me, I, you know, doing any physical therapy, it's just like the worst. I'm like always like, OK, sure, I'll do it for a little bit. And so that had to be a good learning experience too. Oh yeah, yeah. And just I would have to remind myself every day like this is there's just the purpose behind it. It's not. If I want to come back and run to my fullest ability, I have to do this and had to remind myself of that a lot. Yeah. So you you obviously had a super successful high school career in running and then you said you could pretty much go anywhere and you pick Notre Dame.

And then what were your college years like? Yeah, well, I ultimately ended up as an 8 time all American, but it had quite a bit of ups and downs and it's. Insane, by the way. Yeah, my freshman year was really hard in the sense that I, I was pre Med, I was in a ton of credit hours. I was not sleeping, I was stressed. I was, but I was somehow still running. Well, I felt yeah, it did. It was a rough transition into college, I'll be honest. But then it got just, it got a ton better and I had the help I needed and everything.

But so my, my freshman year was, it was really just a lot of fun because I finally I got to run with women every day instead of the high school boys. And I was doing workouts that were harder than anything I'd ever done. But I was able to hit the times and I had people to push me and Molly Seidel, who's, you know, Olympian and multiple time national champion, was on my team. And so I wasn't expected to be the best. And I think that really helped me just run so well right it my freshman year because I felt like I'm good at dealing with the pressure, but I felt like I could just release all that pressure and just see what I could do.

So I ended up and had a great freshman year. Sophomore year was my best finish. I got third at NCAA's for cross country and then third at NCAA's for indoor track and set the school record in the 10K does. It still stand. It does, yes. Yeah. So that was awesome. There was a lot of hope to win the national championship in the 10K that year. And then I got a bulging disc in my low back, I think it was like in April probably of that year. And that just caused all sorts of neurological pain. And it's very, it's hard to like understand how it feels unless you've had some type of nerve pain.

But it was like I, I could run fast for, I don't know, a mile and 1/2 or something and then my legs would just like become bricks and it wouldn't hurt when I was running. I was like never in pain running, which was what was strange, but I just couldn't move my legs any faster and it was just scary. So obviously then like didn't season didn't end as hoped. I took off the summer and like, did just physical therapy every single day for months and was able to come back from it. But there were a lot of ups and downs in cross country or yeah, in cross country and track the rest of the time there 'cause it was, it felt like I was always just a little bit behind.

I had to take the summer off. And so then I wasn't at my peak when I needed to be, but it was like, oh, if we just had another like four weeks or, or even like two or three weeks, I was like, I feel like I could, I could have finished better, but it's always a could've should've, right? So I kind of dwell on it, but, but it was like looking back, I'm very proud of, I was able to still be an all American with all those ups and downs. But it there was always that piece of me like, man, I just know this isn't my best and I want to show my best.

So, you know, they're ups and downs, but it's all I just, you know, it's all part of God's plan. So roll with what you have. What does it mean to be an All American? Yeah, that is a good question. So all American, I believe in cross country they take Top 40 as all American. It might be like the top 20 or first team, the 2nd 20 or second team, but then for track it is the top nine are all American. Wow. Top nine at the National Championship. So every year, every season, essentially, you weren't all American. Yeah, all but one. The season that I had the bulging disc, I was a second team, second team, All American.

OK, so you were a second team all American, which seems like a OK, you know, yeah, little asterisk there. But I, you know, that's, that's so cool. That's I mean, and then to hold the 10K record and still have that stand. So at what point then typically, I guess for a runner or an athlete, do you go for Olympic trial stuff? Like did you do that soon after college? Did you do that while you were in college at all or how does that work? Yes. So I I graduated undergrad was 2019 and then I did a fifth year in 2020, which then the trials were postponed.

I suppose. Yeah, the weird. So I was, I had the Olympic Trials, the qualifying time as a sophomore, but then it's not good for, it's only good for so long. So then 2020, I can't remember if I had it or not, but it didn't matter because it was it was postponed. So ultimately after I graduated, I moved out to Boston. I was running professionally for the Boston Athletic Association and the main goal was getting the I think we were trying for the 5K and the 10K qualifying. And then I would probably have just chosen one. But ultimate, my back injury kind of flared up shortly after I moved there.

And it, it kind of inhibited the training for the trials and such. But I mean, again, all part of God's plan. It, I ended up leaving Boston shortly. I, I wasn't there too long. There are just a lot of factors involved. And is this the right fit or not? And I'm injured again. And it was the middle of a pandemic in a large city, so it was no fun. Very before you move forward to how did that opportunity come about for you? Running BAA, Yeah. So that was also interesting because it was, it was, again, COVID. So normally, normally if you're on the brink of being able to run professionally, you start, you may or may not work with an agent, but you start contacting coaches and teams when you're close to graduating.

And then after NCAA's, a lot of people sign, but then incidentally didn't happen that year. I couldn't travel to visit a lot of places for a while. So it kind of, it just got very prolonged. And I signed. I think I committed like maybe the end of September and then moved out in October. But it came about with like my coach helped me reach out to people. He's there was an agent that was helping me as well. So yeah, outreach and visiting and then negotiating contracts. Wow. And so you pick like a certain handful of teams that you are interested in running for, right. I mean was the BAA one that you are like the top of your list or?

Yeah, so some of it, I mean, well, if I had won a national championship, I would could pick from any team, OK. Because incidentally's were canceled that year and I hadn't won a national title. I want to say cross country. It wasn't my best season either. I still ran well, but it wasn't my best. So I had less options than a typical year. And because it was an Olympic year, a lot of people were still under contract. So it depends on how much money do they have, What can they even, you know, I don't want to go somewhere if they're like, yeah, we can pay you 10 grand to live.

So. So that was a factor because a lot of people, I'm sure we'll see this in the upcoming months, a lot of people, their contracts end right after the Olympic trials or right after the Olympics. OK, So we are going into an Olympic year. So there wasn't as much money. So I couldn't say I had the pick of like anywhere I would go, but I had a a decent amount of options to choose from. Also, I should, I kind of glossed over this and I don't want to, but you had two degrees, you got your undergrad and then you got a master's all while being an athlete and a like an incredible like cream of the crop athlete as well.

So yeah, in your in your undergrad, it was in neuroscience was undergrad or yeah, which is like, God, it's just wild. Yeah, it was. It's really what it probably what I'm most proud of because looking back it was so hard. Yeah, I mean, did you ever go to a party in college? Yes, I did. I did. But it was, it was very much like when you are in season, this is the routine like you got to stay focused because if you're behind a day, it was just it was hard. Not everyone was like that. Depending on your major, depending on how much you had to study, I had to study a lot to like it wasn't easy for me.

And and then when we were offseason, it was like, OK, enjoy the four weeks that you're out of season for the whole. Year, yeah. So it was like, I loved my time at Notre Dame, but it definitely took a lot of structure and commitment. Was the were those four weeks like between school sessions too, like where you would actually like completely be off, like where you weren't studying or running? We would have this, yeah, The summers were usually off because NCAA's are the early June and then we wouldn't go back to campus until like mid August. So we actually did have some off time. Give.

It their summer classes so sometimes it wasn't there. Jeez, But did you like go nuts during the time? So you were off like, in terms of like, I don't know, like traveling with friends, parting it up or, you know, or were you just sleeping? No, we would. We would try to make the most of it for sure as a team. And then like over the summer, traveling, doing abroad experiences. Yeah, we did as I think we crammed as much as we could and. I would imagine so. That's crazy. OK, so now BAA your, your back is back. And so that had to be a really hard time.

You know, you've done all this essentially to become a pro to, you know, run in the Olympics, and then your back prevents you essentially from doing that. So how is that? Yeah, I I could see the writing on the walls that it wasn't, it just wasn't getting much better and it was one too many times for it to come back. That was probably the 4th time maybe that I had started having issues and just the mental. I think turmoil might be a little exaggerating, but maybe not I don't. Know it's your life seems. Like, yeah, well, now it was my job. Yeah. And you only the way running contracts work as well is like you have a base, but it's assumed that you run certain races and you get certain places, you get bonuses.

So your base isn't like you're not your base isn't what you're just supposed to make. So I'm like, OK, I need to race to like make more money living in Boston. It's not cheap. So there was a lot of stress in it, but I, I also just could tell this I wasn't going even if my back was better, I couldn't really see myself being that successful there because I just wasn't happy. And so I chose to cut my, in my contract early and moved back to Indiana and saw a neurosurgeon to like ask point blank look at my back. And is this something that's going to get better?

Because if it's not, just tell me and I'll be done, it's OK. But if it is, you know, I want to keep trying that or, or I want to keep like pursuing running because I, there was another team at that point that I knew I could join. And like, I might not make it to the trials, but I can be on this team and I can train A-Team that's closer in the Midwest and stuff. So saw the spinal surgeon and he told me, hey, if we do surgery, it's really probably not going to change your outcome. That's crazy. Yeah, yeah. It's a risk to even to do back surgery and then it's probably not going to change like some of the issues you've been having.

So I was like, OK, well, that's the answer I needed. So I'm not going to I'm not going to join this team. I'm just going to find a job and when I feel like I want to run again and can run again and I will. I didn't know if it would be a year. I hope it would be like, but I took several months off to just heal mentally and physically and then move to Indianapolis, got a the job I have now, which I is perfect fit for me. And then was able to start getting back into running. And then the the urge hit me again, like I want to race and I want to just do it on my own terms.

But I kept there was this piece of me that's like, I know I still think I can do it and I know how I need to train and it needs to be me that trains myself and not. And coach that like doesn't know how my body feels on a day-to-day. They could be a great coach, but like, you know, if something's off. Yeah, nobody can tell. Nobody knows except for you. And you've had enough experience to where you know how to tweak your training or your run that day. Right, so I decided I went from zero to 100. I decided all right, I'm going to run a marathon.

But. But part of it was I've always wanted to run a marathon, but it was also just that I like, I needed to prove not to really anyone else. I didn't care if anyone knew I ran a marathon. I was like, I just need to prove that I can still do this and I can do it without getting hurt. So that was the I ran half the Carmel half Marathon in. Yeah. What year is that 22? 20. To my official notes. Here we go. So ran that one and I was getting married that fall. So it's like I, I, I'm not doing a fall marathon.

I'm not gonna go do a 20 mile ride on my honeymoon. So yeah, you might. Not have a husband after that. Yeah, yeah. So I, I ran my first marathon in Green Bay, WI because it was the, the right time frame, like it was drivable. It's in the spring. I wasn't going to be ready in time for anything in, in Indianapolis. So that, that was why I drove there and ultimately hit the Olympic trials time. And I, I had, I didn't know what it was going into the race. I didn't care. That wasn't my goal. My goal was just like, I'm going to run a marathon and that's that's it.

And I'm going to do it without pain. So I remember the caramel half. I was running next to this one woman and she somehow we chatted a little bit and she's like, oh, it's your first half marathon. Somehow got into that. I ran at Notre Dame and she's like, oh, you should try to hit the, the trials time. And I remember thinking like, oh gosh, I don't know if I want to go down that route again. I don't know if that's like I, I can't think about it. And so then few weeks later, I think it was like a month later, roughly, I maybe five weeks, I ran that marathon finish and one of my friends texted me like, Oh my gosh, Congrats, you hit the trials time.

And I was like, oh, that's, that's cool. Wow. So so then it got me thinking like, you know, is this God, let me qualify for the trials. I should try to run it. We can get, I mean, now we're fast forwarding gears. But but anyway, it was it was very much like running that first marathon was so special because it was the obviously the time was good, but it was more so like, wow, yeah, I can, I know I can still run at this level. And I figured out what I need to do to stay healthy. And it's not the traditional way that most people go about it.

And what does that look like? Are you taking more rest than a normal person would? Or how do you approach that? It's I think there's a few factors. One, one of the biggest is being OK with missing a workout, being OK with like I had like terrible plantar fasciitis at one point, like my hip got out of place. There were a lot of things leading into this marathon and it's like, OK, I need to bike today. I'm going to I'm going to do a hard effort on the bike. But you know, I care more about getting to the starting line healthy than I do about this workout.

And that's just very hard when you're running in college, very hard when you're running professionally because it feels like you're getting behind people and everyone else is doing it. So for me, doing it on my own was like, OK, like this is what it is. I also I think I run a little bit slower on easy days than I did in college which is which is necessary for sure. But the last factor is I do a lot more of my hard efforts based off of time and effort instead of like I have to hit this time for this distance. So instead of doing mile repeats or something, I might do 6 or 8 by 5 minutes and then jog.

And I found that that helps me not over exert myself on certain days 'cause that's what was getting me hurt was like, here's the time on the paper that I'm supposed to hit. And so I'm going to do everything I can to hit that time and I would get hurt. And if something was off, it's like, well, I'm still running the workout today. So whatever. Whatever I have to do to hit the times was what I was doing. So training by myself and trading a lot more like effort and time based I think was has been really helpful. Yeah, yes, I do a mixture of most of my stuff though is I work with a coach, Rachel Senders here locally and most of my stuff is easy runs like some of them have strides at the end.

But yeah, then I've got some workouts that include some some speed work, but a lot of it's like what you described and it's different than anything I've ever done because I used to just. Yeah, I mean, certainly not the speeds that you would run, but I would go out and run as fast as I could, yeah, for four miles. And if I didn't run as fast as I could, it felt like it wasn't even worth doing. Which is so funny to like. You really have to change your mindset on the approach and understand and trust the process as you've. Said before yeah. And I would look at my times after words or I might have like occasionally I would, I would have a goal pace going into it and I kind of check and see where I'm at.

But I would have pretty much always hit the pace as I wanted to. But it was just releasing the pressure of having to do it that allowed it to be more fun and I think has helped me stay healthy. Yeah, so back to Green Bay real quick. So I want to hear about your experience and even Carmel. Did you end up winning? Did you win the Carmel half or did? You I got second in both in. Carmel and at Green Bay. And then how big is the Green Bay Marathon? Not very big. OK, I was gonna say one person. OK, well, at least you got one.

Person yes, I was very grateful for that. Yeah, yeah. OK. So yeah, that's really cool. So you're like, OK, this is this is pretty good. So do you think like now you're like, all right, now I'm truly distance, distance because there's obviously a difference between, you know, 5K10K or track stuff and like half and full marathon. Yeah, I always knew I would be better at the longer stuff. I can't say the marathon's my favorite race, but yeah, I'll keep doing them. I don't dislike them for anything, but I've I I always knew the half marathon and the full marathon would be what I'm best at.

Yeah. So you ran a qualifying time in 22. Was the window, so was that a window that was open or is it just the time that you, I don't know, that was generally set? Forgive me. OK, so let me see if I can put this into better, better words. But like, OK, so you run the qualifying time in 22 and the Olympics are 24. Is it a two year period where anytime within that period you can run the qualifying time and then you can run at the trials? Or how does that work exactly? Yes, I believe it's two years and it might be slightly under two years, but in general, yeah, if you hit the qualifying time at any point in that time, then you can go OK, at least for the marathon, for track, I think they cap it off at a certain number of people.

So if like 40, if 60 people hit the trials time, they're not going to take 60 people for the 10K. OK. And so since the trials were earlier this year, were did you go or were you pregnant at that time or? Yeah, so I did not go. I was pregnant. It was that's not why I didn't go, though I do like to specify that too. No, basically I I ran the Boston Marathon in April of 2023, went super well ran then the indie mini like 3 weeks later was still feeling good. But then after that I had like this just horrible hamstring tendonitis and nerve tension.

It wasn't like my my back was fine, but I had like just because probably of the anatomy of my body Now it's just I had this neural tension. So like sitting down was the worst thing for months. So I was trying to get back from that and then it would get better. I kind of start training it a little harder again and then something would get worse. But what kind of the final straw of deciding do I want to run? Am I going to go to the trials or not? Was I just had this horrible unevenness where my whole right side of my body from like my shoulder to my foot was tight and it would hurt even on like a five mile easy run.

So I'm like, OK, how my options are I I mean, I can't keep running like this because I will make it much I will get very hurt. So my options are either I cross train pretty much exclusively for the next like couple months leading into this and then run the trials and not, well, really go back to college where I felt like, oh, I ran OK, but I know it's not my best. And to me is like, that's just not worth it. I have had to do that enough times to train in pain and then show up and like be average for Anna. Yeah. And is like, that's not worth it.

So yeah, decided, decided not to do it. And my husband and I knew we wanted to start our family, you know, as soon as we could. So we were blessed to be able to do that. So I was pregnant at the trials, but it's kind of a lot of factors going into it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So now after certainly life after baby, when you get faster, yeah, hopefully you can go back and run another marathon. Oh yeah, yeah. Many more to come. Yeah, it's fun. How much Nick, my husband has gotten into distance running. He is not He played soccer. He was he's a really good soccer player.

Like high school, it still plays and stuff and distance running has never been on his radar. And now he's like, has all the marathons that that I might run saved in his calendar, all that. That's so. Nice. It's been fun, yeah. Yeah. My husband had never run more than three miles in his life when we met and started dating. And then he agreed to run the Chicago Marathon with me. So he trained all summer together and ran together. And that was when I knew, like, you know, it was like, OK, this one's a keeper. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was. It's also a cool piece to mention too, from my the story of like moving back from Boston.

I had just met Nick and I had met right before I left. And really if I had not moved back when I did I, we, we want to be married. I wouldn't be having a child anything. So there was a lot of good that that came out of that That's. What a friend of mine calls that the God wink like. Yeah, I told you, yeah. I gotcha. That's funny. How perfect is that? So I want to talk about the job that we kind of glossed over because you're a Co founder of a business. So it's not like you came back and got a typical job.

You got an incredible opportunity at an organization that essentially helps leaders use mindset to be better at their job. So talk about dream Fuel and kind of how that came to be. And and then I also want to definitely tie in the whole mindset mindset concept to running because I think that, you know, I myself and others listening could really benefit from understanding that a little better. Yes, but as I mentioned, I ended my contract earlier than expected. So I always knew I wasn't going to run professionally forever. And I had all these ideas for what type of job I would want, but I didn't have the time to prepare.

So it's essentially like, OK, I got it. Like we got to start looking for jobs now. And there are just so many things that I'm interested in that I am qualified for. And so I just started one of my cousins that lived in Indianapolis at the time very just he's one of those people that knows everybody and he just connected me with people. I told him I want, I want to find a job that ties together science and business, my 2° and basically through mutual connections, I got to talk to Kevin Bailey, who's my Co founder and went going into the conversation with him. All I knew I, I looked at his LinkedIn, you know, and I said, I had heard from the, the person that introduced us that he is a mindset coach for business professionals and he does everything's backed in neuroscience.

And to me, I was like, Oh my gosh, that's the coolest thing. Like that's, this is what I had been, I run my own side business coaching athletes and some of it's a training plan, but I also mentor a lot on the mental side of running. So like, OK, this is really what I'm do what I'm already doing, but with, with adults basically. And so I just remember being so excited to talk to him and then didn't realize he was hiring. So probably helped the conversation be more candid, I suppose. But ultimately that was so that would have been 2021. And it's been such a an adventure to help build a company where we had a general framework.

And then my job initially was mostly coaching, and then it moved into coaching and an operations role. Like how do we fit all that we have into a system, into something that's scalable and figuring out how to make that work, like crafting a product. We have an app, we have an LMSA learning management system. And now we have more coaches and more and more privilege on the team. So it's been a blast to build it. But it's also it's something that it's a really fulfilling job in the sense that I get to work with people every single day on helping them learn the tools to keep their mind in the right place to achieve what's most important to them.

So whether it's there's challenge with confidence, they are have a terrible time trying to focus or they are unmotivated, they're burned out and they lost, It's a founder and he's lost sight of his vision. And we can help them with all of our tools. We've got like 60 roughly that are all backed by neuroscience or sports psychology. And so we can teach people how to overcome these barriers to get to where they want to be in a way that is science backed. So it's it's not just like a nice idea. Yeah. Take a few breaths and we're done. Yes, exactly, which has really helped us that helps gain credibility with people quickly.

And then but to because to do that in my day-to-day and also incorporate into my own life because I want to practice the things I teach and that's but it's not anything that's necessarily something completely different from what I've done because it's the same tools that I coach people on that we've built into our company that are the tools that I started using back when I was a teenager and figuring out how to run fast at a high level. So it's really, I love Dream fuel and I love the work we do because it changed my life as a kid and allowed me to do like so many of things that I that I have gotten to do from running to professional life, you know, school and everything.

And now I get to share that with, you know, hundreds, hope thousands hopefully of people and help them do the same thing. Can you have a lot of tools in that toolkit as you mentioned? Can you give some examples? Maybe ones you've used since you were a teenager or some that you feel are kind of like the ones that I don't know are the are the best or like the low hanging fruit of what you do? Yeah, the biggest one that, or maybe I should say the first one I ever use, I was visualization taught to me by my high school coach. And I remember the first time we ever did it, I didn't know anything about visualization.

My team, the older people on the team were like, Oh yeah, this is really cool. We do this every week. So he takes us into the wrestling room at the high school, plays music, everyone lays down like. And then he walks us through, helps us visualize the race. And I knew he was a good coach. I trusted him. But it was kind of, it's like, I don't really know about this thing. It seems kind of weird. Yeah, weird. But then after I visualized, after I went through that first time, I was like, wait, I felt that I like that last part of the race. I could see it.

I could feel it. Yeah. And then I went in and raced the next day and noticed just how much more prepared I felt, how much less anxious I was because I felt like I had practiced it, like I knew it was going to happen. So now I know the science behind visualization and why it works and why it's effective. And that's what we teach people and coach them on. But it's a skill that I learned and have used for years and years. And then another big one that I would say is being able to reframe anxiety into excitement because when our body feels like, I mean, the mind body connection, people talk about it, but it is if you know the neuroscience, it's, it's incredibly real.

And the way our body responds with like the high heart rate, the breathing, sweating, like your stomach can even feel anxious. It's actually about almost the exact same as when you're really excited. Like I always give the example, if you like roller coasters and you're like easing up to the very top of it and you can hear it clicking and you know you're about to go over the edge. And so you're kind of like you get the butterflies in your stomach and you have that anticipation, but you want to be there. It's actually like the same physical feeling as being anxious. And So what you can do is prepare your mind and prepare beforehand, but even in the moment by just talking about how excited you are, think about why you're excited.

Say you're excited and your mind starts, your body starts having those feelings, those sensations, but your mind is like, Oh no, we're excited for this. We're ready to go versus this is good. Yeah, versus I'm scared. I want to back away. So completely different way to perform. And that's when we we coach people on. But it was one that. I think I just figured out on my own in high school 'cause I would get pretty nervous, but I would just, I would talk when I was nervous and somehow I wound up talking about how excited I was and noticed it made a difference. So those are two of the big ones for racing.

Yeah, those are good. I remember talking to, again, Shay Aquilano about how we agree. She's also, you know, has a neuroscience degree from Notre Dame, ironically. And, you know, we agreed that it was probably running was probably like 90% mental, maybe 8020, right? But it's it's something that now after I've, you know, reflected back on that discussion and used some of the things that we talked about, I'm kind of like, yeah, I get it. Like my mind, your mind is just, I mean, my mind lies to me a lot and my mind a lot of times is very negative. And so it's like trying to change the way that you think.

It's hard, but it's also something that I've started to try to practice and I can already feel a difference. Yeah, it is crucial. One of my favorite quotes is it's Napoleon Hill. And it's our only limitations are those that we create in our own minds. Yeah. And it's also the book Endure is It's Endure by Alex Hutchinson. It's like my all time favorite book, but it goes over it. It shares all these stories of people doing these incredible physical feats that seemingly would be impossible. But it's like, no, we're actually have such a limitation that we put in our minds. And some of it's of course, to keep us safe, but the majority of the time you're completely safe and the mind just like holding us back.

Yeah, I'm going to have to read that for sure. I'm going to have to. Don't let me forget. Yeah. So I, I think that even just us talking through those things hopefully helps somebody even listening and trying to get through the rest of a run while listening to this, you know, it's, you know, telling yourself that everything sucks, everything's bad. Well, yeah, that's not going to do you any good. So it's some of those things are just so fascinating to me. I could probably talk to you about that concept for hours to give get all the examples that you have. But I do want to know a little bit more about being a coach and how you work with your athletes quickly, Just so if anybody is interested or like looking for a coach, like are you still like working with new athletes or how does that work?

And then I also want to talk about a few things non running too before we before we wrap. Yeah, so I do. I write training plans for athletes. I've age range has been anywhere from middle school to I. I think I coached 1 gentleman who is in his 70s. Oh nice. But I've I've helped like 800 mile runners all the way up to marathon and wait. 808. 100 no, sorry, 800 meters like an 800 mile. Yeah, sorry. I meant like 8. 116 hundred. That's maybe a better phrase to phrase it. Yeah, You know, when you're talking to somebody who's not like, as you know, the track mindset, I was like, I thought you said 800 miles.

And I was like, wait a second. OK Anyway, continue. Oh. 800-1600. Runners. Yes. Yes. All the way up to marathon. So I and that's something I love to continue doing. It's such a, it's a blast for me and really been able to see a lot of clients have good success and I, but I also mentor mostly young athletes on on the mental side of running. So really diving into what are your barriers and here are the tools that we're going to work on to overcome it. That one is a little more restricted, I would say. I don't have room to cut to coach anyone for that, just the time commitment.

But yeah, I coach as many as I can, Yeah. That has to be just, I mean, absolutely life changing for young, young women because it's so hard. And I imagine too, especially in running, where like, weight, your weight and your body and like, all that stuff comes into play and how hard that can be when your mind is telling, you know, just all the, yeah, struggles that young athletes go through. Yeah, yeah. And it's really, I do it because it's something I wish I had, I really could have used when I was younger, when I was in high school or middle school or so, and just want to be able to make that difference for them in their life.

And what is your the name of your coaching company or what's the website? It's it's next level racing with Anna Roar. So the website isitsnext-level-racing.com, but it's also linked on my Instagram page, my Instagram's coach Anne Aurora. OK. And then you have another Instagram page in Aurora 97. Is that more like your personal outlet? And then you have your coaching. Yeah, OK, yeah. So the my my personal ones that Anne Aurora 97, my coaching one is coach Anne Aurora and that's like exclusively here. Tips and tricks? Running. And yeah, it's funny because when we first met for coffee, I remember I was like, Oh my gosh, congratulations, you're pregnant.

And you were like, how in the heck did you know that? Like, I was like, oh, I like, looked on your Instagram. And I had just looked at your personal yeah, Instagram page. And I feel like a lot of, you know, running related conversations, you know, you have that outlet for like, Coach Anna Roar. It's just kind of funny. Yeah, yeah. So they're a little different, but the coaching one is exclusively like, let's talk about running and how you can get better. Yeah, so funny. And then so I would love to talk to you about some of your other hobbies because you and Nick seem to travel everywhere.

Yes. Which is amazing. We do like to travel. I would love to hear some of your most favorite places that you've been. What are some of the highlights? Favorite places, probably all of them really are ones we've been to together. We went to Italy on our honeymoon and did. But wherever we travel, we like to go to one of the bigger cities and then to a remote city and kind of get. Yeah. So getting getting really the full experience of the culture by doing that. And it's more relaxing too, when you're not just in the big cities. Yeah. So we did Rome and then two smaller cities in the valley of Italy.

Also did Portugal. And that was amazing. We did, of course, we were in Lisbon. We also did like a real small town called Palmela and we went to Fatima, which is like a kind of remote place, but it's like a holy site in the Catholic faith. And that was incredible. Like so neat to go there. But also one of my favorite places I've ever been is just Colorado. So Nick and I have been to Colorado together, but I, my family would go quite a bit growing up probably. I like we would go almost every year, every maybe every or sorry, every other year like every three years.

OK, would you do like hiking season or snow skiing? Season hiking, OK, yeah. So I just love as much as I love running, just hiking up a mountain. I guess I could run up a mountain for sure, but that's that's not really my thing yet. And Nick would probably not enjoy that. Yeah, he, he would like that one. Yeah. So yeah, Colorado is one of my favorite places. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. Have you trained out there ever? I haven't trained there. I've trained in Flagstaff a few different times. Yeah, and then I also saw you like to cook. I do yes, I've gotten when I was high school, middle school, I did a lot more baking.

I I'm a good cake decorator. That was a. Fun fact. For each fair for like 5 years that I. Wait get out of here. Do they have like cake decorating as? Oh yeah, yeah, it's a. That's a whole subculture. I'm not. Familiar with yeah it was a blast. I I I do still enjoy that. So like. Traditional cake decorating like flowers and Oh yeah, OK. Or would you use like the, what do you call it, the fondant Fondant. Well, it depends how long you've been doing it. So as a beginner, you, you, you start small and then ease into it. That's fun. So that, yeah, that that's a fun thing.

I, I still like, but I, I've gotten a lot into baking breads lately. I've came after the COVID phase. I feel like everyone was into. Bread. Like sourdough bread? Yeah. Yeah, so I I've gotten more into that lately part just cause it's fun. I enjoy cooking, trying new things, but also it's just so much healthier than store bought bread. So that's. I struggle with that a lot, especially having young kids. It's really tough. Yeah, yeah, 'cause you're like realizing how much chemicals essentially you're feeding them. Will you make your own baby food? Are you going to be that mom? Oh. Gosh, I haven't thought that far, honestly.

We'll see how much time I have. It seems at least outside, I never did, but I have certainly had friends who've dabbled in that. They have like all kinds of stuff that makes it a lot easier now, but there's also a lot of other options out there now I feel like that are that are healthy options. So I never, I never did. I'm not a great cook. I've gotten better. But my kids are also so picky. So, like, dabbling and they won't eat. They, it's already hard. I'll make like their favorite meal and they won't eat it. So yeah, anyway, that's fun. Oh my gosh.

You're gonna have so much fun decorating your son's first birthday. Cake. Oh my gosh, I can't wait. I did my niece's, of course my niece's. She turned 3 in December and she is into mermaids and princesses and unicorns. So I made her a mermaid cake and she is just. She was like out of this world, happy. That is so fun. My mother-in-law is our cake decorator. And so, yeah, every year, all for the both of the girls birthdays, she'll make whatever. One year she made a Barbie. This is a good one for your niece. Maybe for next year. A Cinderella cake. It had a Barbie in the middle.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I still to the state. Don't know. Oh, of course. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. So that's really fun. And so she does all this crazy cool stuff. Yeah. So I love that. Yeah. Well, I'm excited for you and your next phase of life. It's crazy and so fun, so much fun. Oh, that's great. OK, well, I'm going to ask you the end of the podcast questions now. And so the first one, which you can give us as many mantras as you want being a neuroscientist, but favorite running mantra or song. Mantra, really the things I repeat to myself in my head.

I go to a lot of Bible verses because they kind of keep me calm level headed through it. So many different ones but one I guess one that I turned to most recently would be by the grace of God. I am what I am and his grace to me is not without effect. But favorite running song would be probably This is My House or Welcome. To my house. Sorry, exactly. Not this is my house. Welcome to my house. This is. We had a lot of fun with that one in college, so that's a good one. That is a good one. I always go back to that.

Yeah, I like that. That's a good pump up song. I like the Bible verses thing for sure. Yeah, that, although that's a long one. You must be. Yeah, I I would have a hard time remembering that, but I'm sure you have. Well, when you're running for hours it, that's a good point. You have time to remember. It. Yeah, yeah, I like, I like that. And then what is your, Well, I know your next milestone for sure, giving birth to your first child, but what's your next finish line? And if you don't have one on the books, like what are some of the races that Nick has on his calendar he might do?

Something he does have them in his calendar. The one that's a, that's a hopeful maybe is the Houston half. In January, OK. So it's just going to depend on what my recovery times like if, if that works out or not. But if not that one, the the New York City half is, I believe, March. OK. Is that the United Airlines like that? That half? I couldn't tell you, but Nick has it in his calendar and he's told me that it's a good one. Okay, well I'm picturing because they have they have all kinds. Now I feel like you have to keep up so but I'm picturing Maybe that's the one I.

Don't know. I know it's one that people do like leading into Boston and stuff. So it's going to be fairly competitive. Yeah, okay, we'll see. I don't know. Yeah, okay, excellent. Well, I, yeah, I hope you have a speedy recovery and you're able to get back to doing what you love. And so thank you so much for being here and sharing all that. You're so inspiring as such a talented athlete. I often joke when I talk. I've only talked to maybe a few people like you on this podcast, but I'm always like, man, I'm just, I just had to break the rule because you're not like this average normal person, but you're just so inspiring.

And we're lucky to have you in Indiana. So thank you so much for being here, Anna. Well, thank you. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. And everybody who's listened, thank you and happy running.

Ally Brettnacher