Episode 8: Rachel Sinders - 10 Medals for 9 Marathons

Episodes

May 26

My own running coach, Rachel Sinders, joins me to talk about NICU twins, a stress fracture before her first marathon, a canceled Boston, and why she has 10 marathon medals for 9 marathons.

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About this episode

Rachel Sinders is my running coach, a Carmel, Indiana native, a former biochemistry major and CPA, and a mom of three, including twins who were born 10 weeks early and spent 10 weeks in the NICU. She started running the summer after her freshman year of college, ran her first Indy Mini in 2008 in close to three hours, and went on to qualify for Boston in her very first marathon at Carmel in 2019.

We recorded this right after my 50th half marathon, so we start there before getting into Rachel's story: the stress fracture that kept her out of Chicago in 2018, how the pandemic turned her first Boston into a virtual race, the small last-chance race in Grand Rapids that earned her a bonus medal, and how she built a coaching business by word of mouth. We also talk about how she coaches, what she looks for in an athlete, and the races still on her list.

In this episode, we discuss

My 50th half marathon in a new state and the heel pain I hadn't told my coach about
Rachel's path from biochemistry and lab research to a master's in accounting, the CPA exam and Delta Faucet
Infertility, IVF, and twins born 10 weeks early on Halloween night
Ten weeks living at the NICU and how isolating that time felt
Starting to run after gaining weight her freshman year at DePauw
Her first Indy Mini in 2008 in a cotton t-shirt and close to three hours
Getting faster by pushing her twins in a jogging stroller
A stress fracture on her last 20-miler before the 2018 Chicago Marathon
Qualifying for Boston at her first marathon, Carmel 2019
Becoming a Road Runners Club of America certified coach and starting her business in 2019
Boston 2020 going virtual and running a small last-chance race in Grand Rapids for her 10th medal
Her Carmel 2021 PR and finally running Boston in October 2021
Mesa Marathon for her 40th birthday and Berlin as her first international race
Her coaching philosophy: easy days easy, hard days hard, and meeting runners where they are
Her mantra, run the mile you're in

Chapters

Intro
Recapping my 50th half marathon
Rachel's background in science and accounting
Twins, the NICU, and growing her family
How Rachel started running
Running as an outlet
Stress fracture and a Boston qualifier
Becoming a running coach
Boston 2020 and the 10th medal
Finally running Boston
Mesa, Berlin, and the World Majors
Rachel's coaching approach
Mantra and how to work with Rachel

Where to find Rachel

Website: rachelmichellerunning.com
Instagram: Rachel Michelle Running

Mentioned in this episode

Races: Boston Marathon, Chicago Marathon, Carmel Marathon, Monumental Marathon, Indy Mini Marathon, Grand Rapids marathon, Mesa Marathon, Berlin Marathon, New York City Marathon, London Marathon, Carmel Freedom Run, Drumstick Dash, Fargo Half Marathon
Organizations and charities: Road Runners Club of America, DePauw University, Delta Faucet
Other: Abbott World Marathon Majors, Athlinks

Previous guests mentioned

Related episodes

Frequently asked

Why does Rachel Sinders have 10 marathon medals for 9 marathons?

When the 2020 Boston Marathon went virtual, Rachel Sinders ran a small in-person race in Grand Rapids, Michigan that weekend, so she earned both a virtual Boston medal and the race's medal for one marathon.

Who is Rachel Sinders?

Rachel Sinders is a Road Runners Club of America certified running coach based in Carmel, Indiana who has run the Boston Marathon three times and coaches runners locally and around the US.

Did Rachel Sinders qualify for Boston in her first marathon?

Yes. After a stress fracture kept her out of the 2018 Chicago Marathon, Rachel Sinders ran her first marathon at Carmel in 2019 and qualified for Boston.

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Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically, so it may contain errors.

Welcome to finish lines and Milestones with Ali, Brett knocker, incredible stories and tales of Triumph with everyday people achieving their goals and fitness. This podcast brought to you by athlete, bouquets celebrate Finish Line's and Milestones of the people that you love by visiting athlete, bouquets.com. Hello and welcome to episode 8 of Finish Lines and Milestones. This Is A Lie, Brettnacher and for this week's episode, I have my coach rachelsanders on. We had an awesome conversation that could have lasted for hours about all things running. How she got to be a run, coach the races that she's done challenges, she's faced not just in family life but also in running life why she has ten Marathon medals for only nine.

Marathons and what's to come for her next, this fall. So this is a great one and if you are interested at all in run coaching, either be coming around coach or having one. This is a great episode for that too. So I hope you enjoy my conversation with Rachel. Hello, and welcome to episode 8 of the Finish Line's and Milestones podcast. Hello, I'm here with my coach. Rachel today. Rachel Cinders has joined me and I am fresh off of my 50th. Half marathon crazy crazy. And a very exciting one to a new state for you a new state. I can't believe this 50. It didn't really feel It didn't really feel any different obviously in retrospect.

So how I need to hear a full recap because I feel like I didn't want to ask you any questions in advance of this right here. Yeah well certainly don't want to talk too much about me because we're here to talk about you. However, I am your coach. So you are my cousin Nation, you know what's up? So so I'm feeling body's feeling pretty good, the weather at the race was amazing. Yeah. That is perfect is a little warm for the full marathoners humid. No. Ya know, and it was like super flat. What I haven't told you yet. Is that I'm having I'm having heel pain.

Yeah. During the race or after both? Yeah. Well before actually and I didn't I was in denial, I still am kind of internal injuries. Yeah yeah so I told my sister because I finally was like okay like something's going on I wore my info. Which I'm wearing today. My slides to the airport and travel which I do. Yeah. And I don't know, I had walked playing golf during the week. I don't know if I just had been on my feet too much. I have no idea but like when I, when we were walking around downtown and like travel, I was just like my Heels starting to hurt my left heel which is the same foot that I was having issues with where I went to go.

Not too long. Yeah. And so yeah, it's just been, it's been hurting. I heard the morning of I like pulled over cold, wine bottle, out of archery as you run. It didn't bother me really like I could tell it was there but it wasn't. I was worried that I was going to like be an excruciating pain. It's good. It didn't get worse. Yeah so we're gonna definitely something we need to address. Yes it is. I know thanks. Thank you. Thank you for the next. Yeah the see this is why you have a coach to help you. Not be in denial and actually take care of yourself.

First step first step is admitting it. You did really, really well. Thank you, happy. I like looked at your splits. You're so pretty, the nice positive splits and it would have been better. So what it's all about it. Having a plan going in. What's I knew what you -? I know she meant actually but yeah - splits Positive Vibes - skitz, very nice progression. What I'm getting. Oh yeah, thank you and didn't really, really well. So I'm glad it went so well for you. Thank you, I appreciate it. And now sub 150 is like on the table. There's not my was not my goal for a nor could I I left It I left it all out there so if I'm so good but I was closer than I thought.

I'd be like school. Yeah and then yeah. And then a PR later. This that is here. So yeah, so now and thank you by the way for giving me two days off. Yes. Well, now that I know about your heal. Well, huh. Yeah, don't make me rest too much. I know it was, I mean, especially with the weather in Indiana right now is, like, full-on ready to be summer. Oh, it's so nice outside. It's hard. Not to be outside. Really hard? Yeah, get it so yeah. So it's good to thank you. Thank you for getting me ready for that and for all of your support.

Yes, and one Good Vibes throughout. Yeah. So so now introduce yourself. So I'm Rachel I live here in Carmel Indiana where I've lived my entire life - four years of college but yes born and raised here. Now I'm a running coach but there's a lot more Or I got more between that that happened over the last 40 years of my life. I went to DePauw for college in Greencastle Indiana and I was actually a biochemistry major and damn. Yeah, I kind of thought I wanted to go to med school but not really like it was just like, I don't know. I like science. I'm going to major in Biochemistry.

So after college, I worked at OU med school in a research lab. Actually this is like disgusting, I can't even believe I did this. I worked with like rats and mice. Oh, like cutting them open and stuff. Yeah, that is gross. I know. Yeah. So I was like okay I don't want to go to med school, I don't want to get my PhD. I need to do something else and I ended up getting my masters in accounting then because I was at them and med school. So I just went to iupy there as These Global business. Okay? Got my masters in accounting and then worked in public accounting for a couple of years passed, the CPA exam so I'm a certified professional accountant.

So you're running math has to be pretty good but I'm yeah, I am. Yeah. So after that I worked at Delta Faucet company at their headquarters here and in the counting. And did that for a number of years until I had three kids along the way? Way and decided I wanted to be more flexible and be at home or with the kids. So we made the decision that I was going to leave my job, but I don't like to sit still and I like to be busy. And now I wouldn't be content with just being. I know I shouldn't say just being a mom because that's a huge job.

That's artist. I needed something for me. Yeah, to yeah, even though it's not like, I feel like I could contribute that much financially to the family, it still is That I can like, be passionate about and that I love. So, yeah, I feel really lucky that. I was able to turn my passion into my job. They were our family and how old are your all your kiddos. So, I have twins that are 1101, and Olivia, and they will be in sixth grade next year. They're almost done with fifth grade and sixth grades, and that's Middle School. Yeah. Okay, then I have Claire. Who is eight and will be in third grade got it.

It. So they're just it was kind of crazy when they were young three, kids three and under for a while and stuff. But it's kind of a blur. Yeah. And so twins as your first babies, like, do twins run in your family? No, no, no. So tell me. So how was that experience? Well, I should say that we had infertility issues so we struggle to get pregnant and we're basically willing to do whatever we could to have Yeah, so we went down the route and we had you is done, which is we don't need to go into detail. Yeah, I actually didn't know what that was until Alex was a guest on.

Yeah, so I thought. Yeah. And I, I didn't know what that was. So, yeah. So we now know the third time finally worked in going into that I knew twins are more. Okay, okay, with that. So we were aware that it was definitely a real possibility and it could happen. So I was shocked and we were like, oh my goodness, this is a lot, but it wasn't like totally out of the blue. Okay. Okay. But like at the same time we were we struggled to get pregnant for so long that like we were just happy that I was pregnant and it was two babies. Yeah it's amazing and I think it helped to that.

It was our first so I had no idea what I was doing. Yeah. We didn't know what it was like to have one baby. So to was our Norm. Yeah my gosh, I can't hear ya. Yeah, so um that was I don't know 11 plus years ago. Yeah. And they were born early, right? So they were born very early 10 weeks, early. Okay. And it happened very suddenly I was not on bed rest, but I was not really I was not working out or anything, okay? I was going to work but not running or anything, it's okay, but it's still just it happened. Super suddenly Halloween night.

Yes, my water broke and so we went to the emergency hospital and they came out about a day later. Wow, yes so they it was it was very hard because they came out they took them away from me right away. I can't hold them. Hmm they were ventilated right away like couldn't breathe on their own so that was really hard. It was just kind of like our lives changed overnight. Not Way we ever expected that to happen. Yeah. So yeah, they were in the NICU for 10 weeks and I just basically lived there. I went home? Yeah, sleep. And then I would go back every day and just be there for the day with them and I was still working, but I would took a extended maternity leave so that I could have that time and then have more time when they did find the come, right?

Yeah, yeah. So, they were really nice about that and stuff. But thank goodness. Were you at Delta at that time? Yes. Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was Sydney was she was born at 36 and a half so she wasn't like super early by any means but early enough where she was in the NICU for like a week and a half but it's a weird life. Yeah, it's a weird especially for your first kids. I mean got to know the nurses so well and I loved them. They were like my best friends for 10 weeks and I was like and not just as like they took care of my babies but like my like support to because I was just a mess, it's very up and down.

And in the NICU, like, they'll have good days and then they'll have bad days. And I struggle with like uncertainty and not knowing like, when are they going to get to come home. It was right. You don't know. Yeah. I have to do these several different things they have to master before they can come home. And no one knew when that would be and I'm a planner. Yeah. You're like, no, I really like you to know so I can like tell my work and yeah, that was just, it was very isolating because I didn't have any friends that had experienced this. Okay. Yeah, I've had normal pregnancies and full-term babies that they got to bring home from the hospital after they were there for two nights and it wasn't like that at all.

So you see it was hard but it's just so crazy that it's been so long now that it seems like a lifetime ago. Yeah. Yeah. I feel that even with just almost six year old. Yes, like it just goes so fast, so fast and then and then you decided to have another baby on. Did you or was it a surprise? Yeah, definitely decide. Yeah, I wanted another because I was I mean, I was pretty upset that like, I didn't get that normal pregnancy experience and I didn't get to like take my baby home with me from the hospital. I mean, that was the hardest thing.

It's like, you leave, and they're still there and skill. So you're not pregnant anymore, but they're not with you. So, I wanted a normal experience. I do, I never, I didn't feel like our family was complete after mmm. So yes, we did have another, which was easy. Easier to get pregnant that time repaired. Yeah. Did you have to go through fertility treatments? Or not to the extent? We just did Clomid, which is like a medicine. You take it home a pillow. Okay, so that worked and then I had to do weekly progesterone shots and so I was watched very closely and it was very nerve-racking, especially when I got to 30 weeks when I did deliver with the twins.

After that point, I was just nervous. Yeah, wreck. Yeah. Like this is I'm gone further now with This child and I did with them. And I did not work out or run or doing everything. I was going to ask you that. No. Did you with the twins at all? No. No, it's hard. It's a, I mean, everyone has such a different experience. I just, I don't know. And that's hard for me because I am a super active person, but I just was like, I didn't want to take any risks and maybe with Claire I could have and it would have been fine. But I was just like, I'm not, I have the rest of my life to run and work out.

What's nine months, right? Yeah. True true in the grand scheme of things. So yes, yeah. But after her, we were like, okay, we're done now. Yeah, Carl family is good. Yeah, that's a guy. I, when I felt the same with the anxiety, I can relate a lot to that because when I got to the point where Sidney came early, yeah, but even even before that I was just a nervous wreck like pretty much my whole second pregnancy. I was still really active. I did my Peloton up until like two weeks before. I mean, I actually know, I even think it was like days before. Or because I had a planned C-section for Sloan, but I had to go on anti-anxiety medication because it was so bad.

I was just like, so worried. So yeah. Well, I feel yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yay. For being Mom? Yes. I mean, you know, it's just every age has a challenge in its own way, so it's like those were such different challenges than what is now or what was through. Yeah. The elementary years it's just It's hard. Mmm obviously. Super rewarding and love my kids but yeah tired. So I guess that's where running kind of comes in because that's been my Outlet along the way. I was a runner Pride I guess we could go way back to like when yeah running but when did you see how?

When did you start? So really in college so I was not an athletic kid growing up in high school. Really, I'd that surprises. Me actually not athletic. Look at all in college. So my freshman year definitely gained the 15 pound Freshman 15 plus some and had like way too much fun. Yeah. And so soft that I think it was that summer after freshman year, when I was back at home for the summer. I'm like I have got to do something about myself, like this is not good. So I just started running. I think I took my bike in like, mapped a route because I had used the pedometer thing on my bike to map.

It have like a lot. Your anything fancy? Oh, that's so funny. Okay. No, this route is three miles and then I would wear like a Timex watch just like a stopwatch. Yeah, look like run it and I was I mean super slow, just starting from scratch but I just kept doing it and like became healthier. I guess, I don't know. Yeah, I probably definitely took it too far. Once College started back up again, and at College, I would go to work out at school. Yeah, a run on the treadmill like crazy. Be like Monday through Thursday and then like partying, like eat terrible on the weekends.

Yeah, repeat. Yeah. That a healthy habit whatsoever. Now that same is all like extreme extreme like not eating much during the week and exercising and then extreme drinking, right? It's like you save it all. It's just this horrible mindset. We were like, oh if I like starve myself all week long and run my ass off. Happy medium of living a life of okay I can eat well but have some treats along the way and exercise but not too extreme. But I've definitely had my ups and downs of being like obsessed with working out. Yeah, I'm feeling like it's too much. So yeah, it's just a journey but through it all I felt like running.

Gave me such like peace of mind and Clarity and then started. My first race was the mini marathon in 2008. I think, okay. And it almost took me three hours, it was super slow and I was like, what did I just do to myself? I was so sore. I can just like, remember the next day, like not even being able to walk and stuff. Did you use a training plan? No, no. Okay, it was all mine, I don't know, I must have had a long run that I gradually. Nice. But I definitely don't think I got more than 10 miles in for a long run.

It wasn't like heavy on the mileage. Yeah, yeah. It's so I remember dying. The last couple of miles and having to walk in. Like I mean I didn't know anything about fueling like sure. My outfit was ridiculous. Cotton right cotton t-shirt IV. I've definitely like done that. Yeah, but I loved it at the same time. Just crossing that finish line. There's nothing like it. So I'm like I'm gonna do this again and see if I can do it better. And it just kind of became like the mini every year for a while, was my goal? Okay. And then Monumental I started like adding that in like okay, I can do a spring rice and I can do a full room, mmm, and slowly got faster.

I mean, I think I followed stuff like online that I found ya when I decided to do something, I go pretty all in. So like, I'm like, okay, found some, my I didn't do any work outs but like mileage, right? That's all I ever did until you actually. Yeah. It was all. Mileage-based. Yep so yeah when I had my kids then I push them. My twins in the stroller a ton. So it was like every afternoon. Okay. After naptime, let's get in the stroller and go for a run and that's really what made me faster than I can. Remember running the drumstick Dash or something like that.

Like yeah, those kids like after having pushed them for a while and I was like I'm running in the eighth. Like, what is this? So strong. Yes. And then just kind of kept running and kept getting like faster slowly and slowly, but never doing anything more than half marathon. That was always like a marathon always was on my bucket list but seem so intimidating. Yeah, it just seemed crazy to me. So yeah, it's just, it became more of like my time to myself where I could, actually, I felt like myself when I'm around like I, my mind is going in a million directions and I'm feeling like, especially with the Young kids.

Super isolated feeling like no one's been through what I've been through with struggling to get pregnant. Having kids in the NICU. Yeah, I twins both struggled with developmental delays growing up and my daughter still. Yeah, has issues. So it was it's very isolating because you feel like everyone around you is perfectly normal. Yeah. And their kids are wonderful and nothing is wrong. And I mean, I feel like social media plays a role in that sheriff seeing like the Highlight Reel of everyone's lives. Yeah, when I went for a run it was just all those thoughts, just kind of disappear and I can I just feel calm and relaxed and like myself.

And it just became like my thing that I'm going to get better at this. Hmm. Because I can and it's the one thing I felt like I could control in my life, when so much, you can't control. I could write, I couldn't control my kids and like the challenges they were facing from being early, but I could control my running, I have go for a run and I could make this effort. Her and do this. Yeah. So it kind of just became my thing. I mean from starting at being quite on the slower side, of course, I saw huge gains then as I was running more and was getting faster.

I can't, I'm just still in awe of the fact that you just after kids obviously even with the stroller getting stronger. But you're like running in the eighth. Yeah. Like you're just so they're just got to be some like natural speed there somewhere. I don't know. I mean I ran a lot of me. Right now and then with the jogging stroller that was really expensive. It and then like in a race setting. I feel like I do a really good job of mentally, putting it all out there for a race. Yeah, just get it done. Yeah. And did you do well today? I know sometimes you run, sometimes you run a people but I don't you don't.

Do you run with people? Did you run with people back then at all like have friends that you would meet up with or just first marathon? I had a friend that we work together. Other, okay. And we like train together and did the mini together for a couple of years. We did that and sent we both went different directions in our career so we just kind of stopped running together but for the most part it was really on my own until maybe like Forest years ago. Really, when I started coaching and really becoming a more involved in like the running Community here. Yeah, I met more people and run with people.

On the weekends, usually. Yeah, during the week. No, because I kind of have a weird schedule. I just run when it works with my day, like usually in the morning after school, drop off. Usually, I don't know many people that are free then right? It's usually by myself. Yeah, I don't mind that. I like it. It's my time, but I do love the runs with friends and talk and catch up and stuff. I like the mixture of both feels good to go out by myself. And you listen to music, right? Yeah, our podcast, okay? Yeah. Like this one. Like this every week. Every Friday. Your son.

Thank you. Well, it's funny because Rachel, and I live really close together. And so there will be times where I'm driving somewhere and I'll see Rachel running. And there she is at my do honks. Sorry. And then now you have I know you have a new car now. Yeah, I know. It's white. Yeah. So this is, Lumpy is alarm. Yeah, I think you might have known. But yeah, then I texted you. So you'd know when you stop that. It wasn't like. So I knew what kind of car you had. I just didn't know the color. Yeah. Most Second time. Okay. So I was like, well, maybe that was maybe that was just some rent, you know?

Yeah. You get the random people sometimes. Yeah, random people. Don't talk. Yeah. Well, my husband Zach Hill, he thinks. It's funny to, like, honk and wave at strangers that are running are walking like and they probably all day. They're probably like, who the hell? Yes, I can't. And he just thinks it's funny. So sometimes you'll probably have Zach also has a white cards GDP. Yeah. I'm quizzing you now. So what's the what's the tally right now of the? Number of races that you've done. Nine Marathon. Okay. Half side. That's right. We talked about this recently. 25 more. Yeah. Yeah. I used to have a spreadsheet I did and then I kind of just stopped it because you use athleanxx like all your races are online.

Oh I don't, I don't know what that is. Okay. Yeah, that's okay. Your name in the Problem is though when you registered for races with your latest. Yeah. Okay. But they're all there so I kind of stopped tracking with my spreadsheet. Okay. Found out about Athletics. See now like I know you're cpic appreciate the fact that I want to go like audit mine now. But what if I'm wrong and it wasn't my 50th. Half marathon. You shouldn't. I wouldn't be. I would be. Yeah, I just didn't say anything. No, you're not wrong. Yeah, I don't know. I've messed up my spreadsheet once and Then it made me realize like I was like oh my gosh, was it a my right?

Is it, and then I'm like, who gives a shit like it's a lot. I run a lot. No one cares. Yeah. Right. So we're happy for you. Thank you. Thank you for caring. And you have to care because I pay you to care. So it was like, ask you. I was going to ask you about like the when you thought about becoming a coach like what made you consider that? Did you consider other types of things to do or like, Ali. I was just like left my job. Immediately the day I left. Okay. What am I going to do? Because I can't just yeah, do nothing and I was running pretty well.

Then like never had run a full Marathon still. I shouldn't say that. I had run one full. I had trained for Chicago. Okay 2018 and I got injured right before the race so I couldn't do it. Mmm and then 2019 in the spring. I ran caramel. Okay, first marathon. So 2019. That's you qualified for Boston and your first marathon yes. Uh-huh. Now everyone can hate you. We use that it Chicago literally my last long run. Okay, I got a stress fracture, that's really hard. I can't the thought of going through all of that I had done to 20 mile orders. It was my last 20 mile ER that day.

Day, we went to see The Lion King downtown, like, why is my foot hurting so bad and it didn't get better and it was a stress fracture. So you to wear a boot then, oh yeah, I was in a boot. Uh-huh. Yeah, the boot. Yeah, so after I recovered from that, I then trained for caramel. Okay, 2019. And then yes, I'd be queued then. So that was about the time when I started coaching. Okay, so I had, I was using my own coach at the time as well. Oh, so you did start using it because I was, To ask. How did you even know what?

BQ? What like how back in 2017? I think I remember finishing Monumental. Okay, in running like 139 ish. I want to stay and I was like her. Do that again. Like I didn't feel like that bad there, but we could roll our eyes again, but I'm just kidding. That's so amazing. Could do that again. Like I want run a marathon now. I'm ready. Okay. It always been like, I'm going to do it. I'm gonna do it and putting it off. Yeah, I was intimidated by it. And after that race I was like, okay, I'm going to do this. And I remember getting in my car after the race, Googling, how to qualify for Boston.

And I saw this, I was in my third late 30s at the time. So it was a 335 for me. Okay, I'm like, oh, I could do that. Like I didn't understand that. Like, your pace for a half is not going to be your paper folder. Like yeah, just double it. And that's great. We do that. And I was like, okay, I'm going to get a coach. So I knew of someone that was a coach. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do this and so I remember that year or for Mother's Day, like Justin, that's what I want for Mother's Day, is a running coach, and he doesn't understand it whatsoever.

I was going to say, I wouldn't even know. I didn't even know, I didn't really even know, run coaches were thing, that would be useful to me. I got run, coaches, were reserved for people who like, did it professional? Yeah, so That's mean this is exactly why I wanted to become a coach then. So I loved what I was doing with her. I was like researching running. So yeah, I just thought I want to be a coach to make others aware that this is out there and I could be of help to them in some way. I did go through the Road Runners Club of America train.

Okay, I was going to ask about that, is it's a weekend. So this was pretty covid. We did a weekend away. Oh, so I went to Fort Wayne and for two nights and it's like an intensive like two-day class. Was actually really fun, because we were in a small group of about 30 people in a classroom, and you got to know people. So, one of the girls, I still like keep in touch with train, like lots of information and then like, we did projects and stuff like got like examples of like types of athletes and like, how would we train them and stuff and did it as a group interests?

Then after that, you have to take an exam on your own. When you go home, you do it online and past that goddamn, then I have to like, like pay to renew it every year or every two years. Yeah. So are there, multiple are there like a few different options of like types of certifications or is that like one of the best? Yeah, u.s. oh yeah they have one. It's more. That's more aimed for High School coaches like on the track type of stuff which is yeah. Yes then invoke a more tracking make sense? Yeah this is the most popular. I would say, as far as running coaches go for distance runners, go But yeah, it's not like it's something that's necessary but I just felt like okay, I want some sort of credentials here like but it didn't help much with the business aspect of it.

It was more like here's all these different philosophies of running and coaching and training and how you can apply them, but I was pretty much on my own to start up a business, right? So I did that, then in the summertime of 2019 and just put out Out some feelers to like friends kind of. And I ended up having like several people right away, there were interested and I was like, whoa! Okay, this is cool and it just spread from Word of Mouth. Really like I've never really advertise much at all. Yeah, but it continues to grow based on just friends telling friends and don't have mouth.

So I currently have mostly here in this area but I Have probably 10 to 15 people that live in other parts of the US. Okay. It doesn't have to be someone that even is local. Or it's all done online. Hmm. But yeah, it's really turned into like so much fun. I sometimes, I'm like, I get to do this for my job. This is so cool. Like, I love helping people, I love. I especially love the athletes that stick around long term and I really get to know them. Everyone is very Different in, like, what excites them and what that just how they respond to certain things, and it's really cool to work with an athlete through like a training cycle for a race and then know how that went and what went well and what didn't go well and be able to apply those things to the next training site.

Yeah. Well, and that's what I love the most about. It is the like various types of individuals that I have, and like learning how to best work with them. Yeah. So fun. Are you still using the same coach today that you Started by have a different code. Okay now, yes, but I've been with her for goodness, three years. Okay, the same coach that I have now and was the change. Just I don't know. So I ended up with the coach I have. Now I was training for Boston in 2020 in January 2020. Okay. And oh shit, oh yeah, I joined this group. So it was a training group, okay, individuals.

There was like 15 of us. All training for Boston around the country. I'm like, that's really cool. Like, I love this. We got to know each other. We were going to meet up at race weekend. It was like a community thing. Yeah, well that didn't happen. So I just ended up staying with the same coach but yes, that was going to be my first Boston 2020. That's so sad. So your first marathon you earn a boot with a stress fracture and then your first Boston gets cancelled because of a global. And yes, so initially they postponed it to September like okay, we can do this then a couple weeks later know it's going to be virtual so okay at least that was a couple weeks later and not like, right.

But yeah, it was pretty going through to training cycles. And yeah, what was it? March, we were a month out from boss. I mean most of the training was done. Yeah. So did you run like a virtual 26.2? All right April. Yeah, I didn't do. Anything in April, I was just like I was very distraught like, what was like, I mean I had worked so hard to be q and in hindsight now, like it's fine like life goes on but at that time I mean I was like really depressed about this. I worked my butt off to be Q. I was going to be going to Boston.

I was so excited for it and then stupid pandemic happened and changed everything. Do you remember when you knew it wasn't going to happen? Yeah. It was like March 20, something. 25th 27th. I could go back. I keep a journal of my training log so I could look back and see. Is it a physical like handwritten journal or is it a? Yes, I use my school Journal. Oh, it's pretty cool other. She has several different versions, but each one includes like different quotes. Different like information, text to help you out. And it's fun. Oh, that's fine. Each week. There's Monday through Sunday and you just kind of feel it in and I leave notes about how I'm feeling and how it went and this person.

There are so many photos of the of this I can share. Yeah, that's cool. I'm intrigued by that. Yeah, I also really like it when I'm about to run a race, I will look back on it at my training and I'm like I did that and I did that really well. Yeah. And I felt okay and it just helps my confidence going into a race to see a full Sure of what I did. Yeah. Pair for this race. Yeah. And it makes me realize I worked really hard for this, put it all out there and really try to do well at that race anyway. So yeah, Boston ended up being virtual.

My first Boston. I actually went to Michigan to run a really small race there. Okay? Grand Rapids. Okay. The same weekend that the virtual was so I guess it was like, it was crazy. How they get away with that. We had to line up like the Finish Line's here. We had a huge line of people. They had to, we had to start a person and then three seconds later the next person. One person. Yes, one person at a time. It was about 250 people, it wasn't. But still that's like ridiculous. I think I'm going Mass, we had we could take the mask off once we started running.

It was it was crazy looking back on it and it was a course that was just a loop course. It's okay. The last chance BQ race. It's Exist. It's so actually, some people were on the way to Fargo or telling you about that. Okay. The big they called, it BQ tube. Oh no, it was an Illinois. But I have another, first time I had heard about this concept. Anyway, it's a race in which you have to have a certain Marathon finish time to even go there. They only want people that are like ready, really serious about it yet and they're closed. Yeah, so I did have that time obviously because I ran into Boston and I was like, well, I want to do a marathon and get my virtual medal for Boss.

Austin, why not make it a real live race? Ya? So I did that in September. Okay. And so, did you get like a like, a Boston metal? It didn't favor. Did, it's a virtual on it, but they already had the metals, right? I bet. Yes, we got our finisher shirt. We they sent us a really nice box of all the stuff that we would have gotten in our packet pickup bag basically gosh. Yeah. That's still depressing. So at that race to did were there like guidelines around like do Don't run next to somebody or because I'm thinking really specified, but it was small enough that it wasn't.

It wasn't crowded group. Yeah, it was so wild. Did it feel like weird? Yes racing. It felt really weird and we say that a hotel like that felt weird cuz I don't think we had done that since since March. Yeah it was yeah, it was very bizarre like My husband and kids went along and stuff too and they were it was since it was a loop course they could just hand me. My water came around, they did have water stops but it was all laid out on the table and no one was handing you anything, right? Because heaven forbid that yeah, that's so funny. Well, that's the that's the now because like I just said, people on the way to Fargo were telling me about in Chicago, there's a race that you can go do and I've never even really heard about that but then I was like, hmm.

If I I was trying to be Q at a race like that that it's like very obvious to everybody whether you do it or not, I don't know. Like, in that small of a setting, right? It's like oh she didn't, you know, versus if you're like in a big race and just very little crowd support, it's not like an exciting race. Ya whatsoever. It was just a loop. I think the Chicago wins the same way. Right? Yeah. Yeah Park. Yeah. Interesting several times. So it worked that was my only option. Yeah. I did it. Yeah, I thought That doesn't sound right to Marathon metals that for One race.

Oh, that's kind of fun. Yeah, but I don't have it is two marathons. Yeah, so I have 10 Marathon medals but I've only ran nine marathons. Oh that's a fun fact. Yeah that's interesting. I actually similarly although I don't know if I counted as one or two. This is for the audit might come into play. I don't know. I'd have to look at my spreadsheet. I don't think I counted it because knowing me like I'm very weird about that but I did have I signed up to do a virtual half, not the mini one but like During the virtual mini, I also signed up for, like, a virtual race and so I got a medal from that too.

And then for the virtual mini, we didn't get medals surprised actually would think they would have had them. Ready. Did I get him? I don't think we didn't do the virtual. I don't remember. I was just angry about the whole situation. Yeah, I'm deferring that. Yeah, giving them my money. That was the only virtual race that I did though. I didn't do it. Get the mini was in 2020, whatever one it was also virtual again and I was like, no. I'm good, we were over it. But yeah, it was like really kind of fun in a way, like, the first time doing it because you're like, oh, like I can plan my route and we thought it was going to be over soon, right?

We didn't think it was gonna last the only time it ever have to do this like a year later, we'd be doing the same thing again. Yeah. Well that's why I asked, was there a moment when you knew that Boston wasn't going to happen because I feel like I remember my dad had a trip to Vegas scheduled and he was like, oh yeah we're still going to Vegas. It's going to be fine. And we're all like, Well, you know. Nope, the casinos are literally like, shut down now and he's like, well, I'm sure it'll be, you know, but it was just funny how we were all in denial of like, very much into that and like, there's no way they're gonna cancel the Boston Marathon 124th, or something that year there.

Yeah. Cancel it. Oh my gosh. Yeah, surely not. So then they didn't automatically accept into the 2021 race. You had to re-qualify because yeah you didn't roll over your times so I ran the marathon in Grand Rapids. I could use that time, okay, but I actually think fully did caramel in 2021 the marathon which was an April which was in April, they had the life, right? Yeah I did that Marathon. And I did really. That's my PR still. Okay. So thankfully I did that and I did well because Boston ended up being in September or October, sorry, October of 2021 and they reduce the field size.

So, had I not better my time in April, I wouldn't have gotten in. There's so many people out there who got totally fucked by that and that's the sucks was like, over seven minutes. I want to know. My God. And that's like an eternity because if you don't make it down to Teen thousand people. So, thankfully, I ran when I did ya, bro, and I got, I was like, 12 minutes under my roof, you time. So I had plenty of time. Yeah, to spare. And then I did end up going finally, in October of 2021, like 16 months after I thought I was going to be going and then he did it again in 2022.

Yes, and 23. Yes, okay. So tell us tell us about Boston. It's amazing. It's like, My ultimate favorite race ever my 2021 experience. So my first experience being, there was my favorite marathon in my entire life. I was so excited to be there. Finally, I got to run this race in person. It was different and that it was a reduced field size which was kind of cool because it was my first time and I was like this is kind of nice. There's not so many of us, it's not crowded everywhere we go. Yeah, so I enjoyed that aspect of it. Hmm, I had the best race of my entire life.

Boston is a really, really tough course. And you have to run it smart to do well at it. Yeah, I like nailed it. I was running - splits my finish was so fast. It's unheard of for your first Boston, but I think I was just so mentally excited to be there. Finally, like fired up the crowds are incredible. It was just everything in more and it was a it was a good day just had the best experience ever. /. I didn't want it to end and then how did it compare then? The next year? Because then it was a difference was in October and now it was April and now it's April.

Was it a full field and yes, okay, 20:22 was full. Okay, yep. And then, twin last this year 2 was crowded. It's just a lot of people but still it's so much fun. Nothing like being there the whole city, just shows up and I love that Boston is like Even though it's a big city, it's feels very condensed because every other so many events going on in this area and, like, our hotel was right there. It just feels like everyone around. You loves running and is into running and it's the coolest weekend. Yeah, it just every time I just finished and I'm like I want to come back and do this again.

I can't stop. Oh yeah. I mean that's the more I dive into. Yeah, running. One of your old. I just gosh. I really want to do it. You would really want to do it. Huh? It? But it is so worth the the work you have to put in to try and get there it is. So worth it. Hmm there's nothing. I mean I've ran Chicago and I do major. Yep. It's not the same. Are you going after the world Majors now? Or I want to? Yeah I'm not in a hurry. I'm not like let's get this done as quickly as possible. I'm gonna be stressful if you're interested.

I have a fan. Later. Yeah. Right. Most of them that I have left now are the international ones? That's, I mean, that's a big commitment. Yeah, I would like to do them all. I'm guessing by time I get there, there's going to be seven of them, so I'll probably have another one to do. But yeah, ultimately, that is my goal. There's other races. I want to look run along the way though, to and I don't feel like I have to just, just do those hard and just go do this. Yeah, I just want to enjoy it. Which other marathons. Have you done? So we've got Chicago debuted on the Monumental.

Yes. Caramel caramel Boston, what else? So the weird one up in Michigan. Yeah, yeah, so Boston three times. Okay. Right. So then on your mental Chicago, Grand Rapids, caramel caramel Oh my gosh. What's the other one I just did this year Mesa in Arizona? We had uh okay. Yeah. How is that? What time of year is that February February? Oh, perfect. Really nice out there in February. That was really fun. I did that for my 40th birthday, okay? How did you pick Mesa? I just have heard good things about the race, that it's a faster race. It's not a super crazy downhill but there it does start kind of up in a mountain and you go down a little bit and then it flattens.

He's out. Okay, not extremely fast but a little bit nice. I like Arizona, it's right around my birthday, I had registered for it the previous year and then decided not to do it and just do Boston, okay? And then this year I was like, this is my 40th birthday. Yeah, got it. If you go do this, it was good. It was really fun. It's a well-organized race. It's a good destination race. I would say. Okay, it got really hot at the end, the full sun and I just hadn't been training and And he like right February, Indiana. Yeah, inning inning heat. Yeah. So it just it felt warm.

Had it been like after the summer maybe and I'd been training in the heat. I don't think it would have bothered me so much but just not being acclimated to that was hard. Yeah, but it was so fun. Still a good time. Yeah fun. And you went out with Jill and adjusting go. Yes. Justin. And then Jill's husband to. Okay, nice. Little Couples 40th birthday trip. Done in my cell phone afterwards. So we met Avengers out of it. Yeah I have just especially after I mean I'm just still in the race high from being on this weekend traveling for a race but there's just traveling.

Four races is so different than running a race like caramel in your backyard it's just sure like you said about Boston you know you start seeing everyone around is all running airport it's just everybody wears their jackets? Yeah yeah yeah. It's everyone's just like oh you going to Boston Yeah, it's just so, all so fun. So that's same thing with your race is fun. Like being on the airplane people that are Runners is so fun. I am writing my recap. Now I'm still writing it takes me forever to write so but I like partially doing it for myself because I have a shitty memory. So like the idea that I can remember all yeah details about this race but yeah meeting people on the plane like I just it's so much fun.

Yeah and you're going to travel Another race this year. Amber I'm going to Berlin which is so cool. Yeah. So jealous I'm very excited. I actually have deferred it a couple times. Yeah because like I said life is busy with C'Mon family and stuff. It's just I've had conflicts, it seems like but this year it's happening already booked my airplane ticket so it's definitely happening and I'm really excited. Yeah, be my first International race. So cool. I've International is definitely on. My radar. I would love to do one but, yeah, having having young kids, it's tough. It's tough to get just get vacations in. Yeah, let alone like, oh, I want to go to Europe for a race.

I feel like Justin my husband. I'm like, all of our vacations are seem to be revolving. Yeah, my running lately like Boston Mesa. Yeah, it's just. So yeah, that's exactly why. I don't want to like Rush the process. Yeah. Getting, it's hard majors and I'm trying for like lotteries and stuff. Huh for London. I hope to get in there and next I would love to do them. Yeah, I really want to get it. My other goal is to get a Time qualifier for New York even though it's not, oh, not a requirement guaranteed entry, okay? Still have to be the fastest, basically, to get online and register, but I would really like to be able to say that.

I did time qualify. I didn't even know that was a thing. Yeah, actually they actually have you couldn't I'm qualified with a half or full. Learn something new today, that's That's My Hope. Gosh. Yeah, New York is really fun. You would? I mean, yeah, yeah. Such a magical experience. The city is so fun. Do you have any other races on your calendar outside of Berlin this year? I always do the local caramel Freedom run. Oh, Angelo July 4th. Yeah. Here always do that every year. I can remember doing that. Like pushing a jogging stroller with my kids, like then they have like a little kids run afterwards it.

So that's fun. My kids are too big for it now, but he used to do that. So that's always my go-to and then we go to the parade right afterwards. So I'll do that in July, and then really just Berlin. I haven't signed up for anything else. It's probably the kindest unlike me for the summer, but I don't know. Wait, what's wins Berlin again, September 24th 25th year, after that weekend, so you could come, right? You could do Monumental half. Oh, I'm doing Monumental. Okay, well, let's see. I'm a pastor. Oh, that's true. Duh, yeah, amen. Already signed up for the half, that's good. Hope to do well at that like, yeah, that's my kind of grabs.

Both of us, October 28, this year's weird that it's in October. I keep forgetting because I was like, oh yeah, in November. And I'm like, no, no. I know I've talked to several my athletes that are now have that on the radar. Yeah, gearing up for. That was like, November 3rd. No, no. It's not November October now. So we're running out of time, but I want to hear a little bit more about your coaching methodology and like, how you work with athletes? I mean not, not as a plug, I Should be because you're amazing. And anybody listening to those, who's considering a coach should consider working with Rachel.

However, like just for people who are curious about the idea of you just kind of walk through that, it's all tailored to the individual. I want to make coaching in your training, something that works with your lifestyle, your goals, your other stressors in life. All those things play a role in how you feel and how your runs are going to go and that's Not something that you can get from just a generic training plan online, how victims that have this vacation, or you had a really stressful week at work or your heal hurting hurts. Yeah, damn it. So, I want to make sure that I am like, fully tuned into someone's life and what's going on and oh, you have this vacation coming up.

So let's work around that. You can't get that from a generic plan online. So that's my ultimate goal is to meet the runner where they are. And take them where they want to go. So I have people with all different goals and no goal is too small or too little, like it just might be that you want someone to keep you accountable and support you. And maybe you're not even interested in running a race. You can still have a running coach like some people just need someone to tell them what to do every day and I'll do it. Yes. Someone's not there telling them, it's hard.

Yeah. And I think I provide good like variability in your runs so it's not just like I'm run this mileage but like make it kind of exciting. Yeah, I really am stress the easy days or easy and the hard days are hard. It's not going to be back to back hard days. You got to learn how to run easier and slower. Most people come to me and they're like, always running in that Gray Zone of like, kind of hard, but not easy. But yeah, that was me that every day and you're not going to get faster that way. Your body is not able to recover from that.

Well, so you Need to have those hard sessions where you push yourself and then you have recovery after that. And that's how you grow. So I think a lot of it is just teaching people these skills that they can then apply to their running. And it's just so fun when they do, listen and do what I say, not fun when they don't and it works out well and they go run a race and they do so well at it. I did, this is so much fun and I feel so lucky that we You have a really good running Community here. Like we do caramel Monumental like those are two big races locally here that I can then go in person and support many of my Runners.

I love that about it. I know my I love my Runners that are not here locally as well but I can't be there for every race they're doing right. But it's so fun when I can go. Like I went down to the mini to cheer for everyone. I wasn't even running but I've so much fun. I saw so many people that not even my own. Known athletes, but just so many people. I knew that my husband said he saw you two. Yeah. Yes, I saw him go by. Yeah, I just, it's made my love for, like, the community of Runners here grow. And yes, I want to like, get to know more people and just yeah.

So fun, that running is for everyone and just your run, you're a runner. You don't have to like, be setting. These huge like Finish Line's, right? Yeah. My sister, I had to tell her that multiple times this weekend because Everybody. We ran into seem to be running the full or the half, and she's like, I'm doing the 10K and she kept feeling. Like, am I the only one doing the 10K? Like, and it's like, no, you're running. If you run, you're a runner. Yeah, I think bottom line. Yeah, absolutely, for sure. What else was I was going to say, oh, I that I really liked how you strive to get your Runners together whether it's for a photo op or just like, a, like just chatting with each other.

It's so fun of them have gotten to know each other. Yeah, that's fun. Social media, obviously plays a Big role in there and that they post about their own and I reposted and people. Yeah, it and just were cheering for each other like build each other. Yeah, it just it makes it so enjoyable, it does. And that's actually how we met was through social media. Yes, and the running community and my friends. And yeah, me and athlete bouquet she did was before Boston. Maybe this for caramel caramel. Yeah. Yeah I remember it because it was pretty early on in athlete. Bouquets to and so like Teresa Was one of my first customers still to this day, is one of my best customers and she gave me this microphone.

I'm speaking into like I love Teresa. Thank you. Theresa you listen. But yeah, it was just so serendipitous because I was like, and then you're like, hey, you know, can we do a giveaway for my athlete? Yes, you know, I can do, you know, you were doing was so cool, genius idea. So I just then, I got ya know, you more. Then we became friends. Yeah. The rest is history. All right, well, we got to Do you got his wind it down? Yes. So sad because now it's been so fun. So, two questions for you. Okay? To wrap it up, Mantra or song. So I know that you said this too I think but run the mile you're in.

Oh yeah, absolutely love it. I think that it applies to running obviously I have my goal always is to like be more present and be more focused on the my alignment and not worrying about what's coming. Whether Just an easy, run, a training, run, a workout or race. Don't look to what's ahead but like Focus what you're doing right now. But I also love that thing, because I think it applies to like me, just my life. I feel like I'm always go. Go, go, go, go and like my endless like to do list in my head is always running. Yeah. And I think about that, I'm like, oh my gosh I just need to be present and not worry about the next thing.

But yeah, hang on. What I'm doing right now. It's so good. Yeah, she's okay. I mean, I have to tell myself this all same because I'm constantly like rushing to, what's next? Yeah. And just like you do that. Check the boxes in the moment. Just to be present. Yeah, well, you saw, I put that on my racer for Fargo and a young woman came up to me after the race, and this happened also in Carmel. I don't know somewhere recently, and she was like that. Got me through oh, that's wonderful. So sweet. Yeah, it gets me. I was like, I think about it back there, I can't see it, but I'm like constantly thinking about Sleeve had shirts made several years ago, and I had my Runners bought them and stuff to.

Yeah. I had that on the back of them. Are you doing anymore? I don't know. I need to do it again. I hope you guys just to tie one person. I know have all. Yeah, ideas in my head and just I can appreciate down, get it all to happen, but I need to do the shirts again. Yeah, it is, I don't wear mine anymore because it's so old. And yeah, yeah, my husband wears his all the time and he runs on the Monon and it all the time. And all these were like People do like yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then we know you're next. You're next marathon.

So that's will. So everyone will be cheering for you. I'm going to be just living vicariously through your adventures. I feel like that wondering Boston to, I was just like Having it all. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm a little nervous about all the training that has to happen in the summer months. But yeah, make it happen will make it happen. Yeah. Do you have any other goals that you've set out there? I would like to call like have a Time called. Yep. Okay. You said that for New York and then why is that? So my goal which would also be a PR. Okay, so what does that look like for you right now?

3:24 Marathon okay 326 maybe my Marathon pierce three. 24. Okay, I think for New York I need a 326. So I guess it won't be an auto kpr but it'll be close. Yeah, my focus less and less on like sitting PRS and I'm kind of like to this place where I'm like my goals are just to place at the top of my age group now, like gotten older, I don't know if I can run the times. I used to run. I'd rate, maybe I can. I'd love to write, like maybe I should focus more on. Just comparing myself to my peers of my age. Yeah, I think that's my place among them.

Right. That's a good driving to be this younger self. Yeah, it's that is tricky business when we get because I'm 30, I'll be 37 this summer and so I feel like I'm like kind of on that cusp of we're like, okay, if I really work hard for the next few years, like, I know that I'll continue to gain speed but you know, then who knows, right to your point. That it's like, okay, now I should compare myself. That's why they have age groups, you know, exactly. Because then you compare yourself to people. Yeah, people on the same playing field. Around this area is a very Speedy age group.

So as I work, cut out for ya, I need to figure. I don't even I just now started paying attention to that as I get faster. I'm like, okay, I wonder like what I can do in my age group like, at Carmel, I was so close to being in the top three and it was so cool, so close. Yeah, so that's really fun. I like like that and then another question for you, I guess, just because you're running coach and I would love for people to be able to find you if they are interested in in scheduling like an Call or could you talk about what that process would look like?

I'm on Instagram, Rachel, Michelle running or have a website. Same thing. Rachel, Michelle running.com, you can find me there. The first step I always do is have an initial intake phone call with an athlete. I want to talk to you, not just via email, but actually a live person so I can kind of get to know you better and see if we're a good fit. I have calls with athletes sometimes and it's just it's not a good fit. Like, We don't mesh, maybe their expectations are off the wall, crazy, or maybe they're expecting. I'm going to do more for them and I'm like way too realistic with it.

Yeah, that's good. That whatever it may be, but get to. I want to get to know you and talk and then we kind of go from there as far as getting set up and what I use for my coaching platform and moving forward. Yeah. So I would love to have more more Runners. Join my team. Yeah, amazing huh. Well now we're going to go and we're going to talk before. I have to go pick up the kids about what I need to do about this. He'll situation so wow, I know. Alright well thank you everybody for listening having me. Absolutely nerve-racking. I'm not gonna lie but once you get going it's like easy.

This is for just saying that. Yeah. And this will go out. I'll probably to put this out. Yeah, Friday morning. Before I go to d.c., I'm headed to d.c. for the Memorial Day weekend. Holiday, there was a half marathon in Georgetown, really close to where I'm staying and I floated, The idea and it was quickly shot down by my husband. Yeah, it's like hell no, not going. Yeah, nope. So I'm like, okay, well, thanks for listening. Everybody have a good weekend and happy running.

Ally Brettnacher