Episode 43: Gordon Strain - Dreams Aren't Dumb

Episodes

Feb 16

Listener note: This episode includes open discussion of bipolar disorder, medication and mental health.

Gordon Strain ran his first marathon as part of Disney's Dopey Challenge and went sub-4 through a downpour. He's also a filmmaker, set designer, bartender and open advocate for mental health.

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About this episode

Gordon Strain grew up in Indianapolis, studied theater at Ithaca College, and has spent his career designing sets, teaching at Franklin College and making feature films in Indiana with his partner Zach. He found running through CrossFit, became an assistant cross country coach at Center Grove, and in January 2024 ran the Dopey Challenge at Disney as his very first marathon, hitting his sub-4 goal despite torrential rain from miles 16 to 19.

We talk about Disney race culture, getting lost running up the wrong mountain in Bologna, running in Spain, Morocco and Portugal, and choosing races based on places you want to go. Gordon also shares how he lives with bipolar disorder, why it took therapy, the right medication, less work stress and running together to feel like himself, and why "dreams aren't dumb" is the motto he lives by.

In this episode, we discuss

Our shared love of dogs and rescuing Fozzie the poodle through the Love Pet Project
Finding running through CrossFit and throwing up 100 yards from the finish of his first 5K
Why easy things bore him and how that pushed him to longer distances
Signing up for the Dopey Challenge as his first marathon so he could run the half with his family
Training like an ultra with back-to-back long runs and coaching cross country at Center Grove
A rain-shortened Disney half and running through a downpour to break four hours in the marathon
Character stops, riding rides mid-race and the infamous bloody-nipple race photo
Getting lost running up the wrong mountain near Bologna, Italy
Running in Spain, Morocco, Costa Rica and Portugal for his wife's work, film festivals and vacations
Picking races based on places you want to go instead of chasing the World Majors
Theater school at Ithaca College, set design and building a film industry in Indiana
Making seven feature films, including one with Danny Glover and The Duel, filmed in Carmel
Living with bipolar disorder and why he once hid the diagnosis
Therapy, medication, reduced work stress and running as pieces of one puzzle
Bartending at The Haberdasher, gin cocktails, and the mottos he lives by

Chapters

Intro
Girl dads and rescue dogs
From CrossFit to running
Why Dopey was his first marathon
Rain, a shortened half and a sub-4 at Disney
Character stops and race photos
Running around the world and getting lost in Italy
Portugal and racing in places you love
Theater, set design and making movies in Indiana
Living with bipolar disorder
Therapy, medication and fighting stigma
Mixology and The Haberdasher
Mottos and bucket-list races

Where to find Gordon

Instagram: Running with Bipolar
Instagram: Gordon Strain Art
Pegasus Pictures

Mentioned in this episode

Races: Walt Disney World Marathon Weekend Dopey Challenge, Disney Wine & Dine Half Marathon, Carmel Marathon, Kentucky Derby Mini Marathon, 500 Festival Mini-Marathon, Flying Pig Marathon, Monumental Marathon, Mill Race Marathon, Hilton Head Marathon, Seville Marathon, Run for Water 5K
Organizations and charities: Love Pet Project, Purdue Veterinary School, Center Grove Cross Country, Ithaca College, Indiana University, Franklin College, IU East, Pegasus Pictures, The Haberdasher, Cook Medical, West Baden Springs Hotel, Indiana Repertory Theatre, Civic Theatre, Phoenix Theatre, This Blonde Runs, New Shoe Day
Other: The Duel (film), Danny Glover, Dylan Sprouse, Patrick Warburton, The Emperor's New Groove, Jogging Jack Sparrow, Matthew Perry's memoir, Oscar Wilde

Previous guests mentioned

Related episodes

Frequently asked

Who is Gordon Strain?

Gordon Strain is an Indianapolis-born set designer, filmmaker with Pegasus Pictures, Franklin College instructor and bartender who shares his running and mental health journey on Instagram as Running with Bipolar.

What was Gordon Strain's first marathon?

Gordon Strain ran his first marathon as part of the 2024 Walt Disney World Dopey Challenge and finished under four hours despite heavy rain and headwinds from miles 16 to 19.

What does "Dreams aren't dumb" mean to Gordon Strain?

"Dreams aren't dumb" is the motto of Gordon Strain's film company, Pegasus Pictures, and he has it tattooed with a flying pig as a reminder that no one's dreams are too silly to pursue.

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Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically, so it may contain errors.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones with Ally Brettnacher. Incredible stories and tales of triumphs with everyday people achieving their goals and fitness. This podcast brought to you by Athlete Bouquets Celebrate Finish Lines and Milestones are the people that you love by visiting athletebouquets.com. Hello and welcome to episode 43. This is Ally Brettnacher and I'm so excited that it's almost race season. We're getting so close to when spring races start happening. Personally, my first race of the year will be next weekend in Las Vegas. Shout out to listener Sarah Kane who's going to be there too. I'm so excited to hopefully meet you in person, but my dad runs this race every year with his cousin and I went two years ago and then last year I couldn't go.

My friend Selena got married. It's a very good reason to miss, but this year I'm back and hoping for redemption. The first year was just a rough race for me. Having a race that's at night is hard. It's just tricky to fuel and whatnot. So this year I'm going back hoping to do better. I also get to see you 2 in the sphere, so I'm so pumped about that. And yeah, so then after that, you know races start happening. So I'm really excited to hopefully do a couple more races here in the spring locally and I am super thrilled to announce that I am partnered with the Carmel Marathon this year.

I will be at the Expo on Friday, April 12th. The race is on April 13th. There is a bouquet available not just on athletebouquets.com but also if you register for the marathon or any of the other races, you will see the bouquet and mug that you can purchase. So really cool. Love that they are committed to supporting local businesses. There is a new executive director or race director this year, Jay Drupa, and he will be coming on this podcast next month. So you can get a chance if you're local, especially to get to know him before the Carmel Marathon. So shout out to a couple of people I got to see this week too.

My friend Christy D who's on this podcast, launched a run coaching business, This Blonde Runs. I also got to really officially meet Carly Stewart. She is on the board of New Shoe Day. She'll be on this podcast and so you'll get to know her and New Shoe Day better. But just I get so excited when I get a chance to C or network with network's not the right word. Jeez. But just meet other runners in our community. So that fills me up. And this week I got to meet Gordon Strain. He's so cool, you guys. He has so many different hobbies, interests. I just found him fascinating.

And during our conversation, we talked about our shared love of dogs. He has a poodle. I have a doodle how he got into running. We talked about how his first marathon was at Dopey this year at Disney, so you'll learn a little bit more about that. We talked quite a bit about his experience there. We talked about how he's had an opportunity to run all over the world. He tells a story about how he got lost in Italy. We talked about the world of theater and film and his company, Pegasus Productions. We talked about mental health, such an important topic these days. We talk specifically about putting all the pieces together, how it takes work and you know, whether it's therapy, medication, running, just kind of getting everything dialed in to be happy.

And I really thank him for being so open on that topic. We talked about how Gordon is a mixologist and bartender and actually after the interview we were texting and he did give me some recipes. So if you like Jen, let me know and I'll share those with you. And then we also talked about picking races based on places we want to go. So that was Gordon's idea and I'm totally stealing it because, you know, as I think about the World Majors, yeah, that that might be cool, but I just, I want to go to. There's certain places in the world I want to go to, and if I can do that around running, that would be extra cool.

So I really hope you enjoy this conversation with Gordon Strain. OK, we did it. We're here. I'm here with Gordon Strain. I'm here. You're here. And we got sort of set up, and I never found the moth I told you about. So just be. I'm ready. Your eyes peeled. There's a moth in here. It's not very big, thankfully, but but it's around. So if it flies in your mouth, just do what you told. Me, I'm going. I'm going to move right through it. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for being here. It's so nice to meet you in person finally. Yeah, it's great to be here.

Thanks for having me. Absolutely. And so, for anybody who doesn't know Gordon, he is running with bipolar on Instagram. Yes, and Gordon Strain Art. I have two, but it's the the one is like my home, family and movie account and then the running account. So 'cause I, like your friends, don't want to see running. Stuff. Yeah, I have two now too. I have the Athlete UK's and Ally T Brett and I'm so glad that I have an outlet for my running stuff, 'cause you're right, people who follow me just for like personal stuff don't care about my running stuff, So but I do and I love being able to put it out there.

It helps motivate me and hopefully motivates somebody else. Yeah, I I agree. I think it's. I mean, social media is such a tricky thing, but like if you curate your feed right, it can be very positive and helpful, right? I think yes, absolutely. I believe and I feel like yours is just that, especially with the words that you share, which we'll get into more. OK. All right. I don't. Want to get too far ahead of myself, But what I love is that we have a few things in common. We are both girl parents. You have two daughters. I have two daughters. And I'm sorry Fozzie, but I called Fozzie A goldendoodle.

But Fozzie is in fact. OG. OG full bred poodle that you rescued? Yes. How did that happen? So I will say we're a blended family, right? So I have a daughter. My wife has a daughter. She had a dog. I had a dog. And so we blended into one big family of four and two dogs. And as those dogs passed away, we reached that point where we're like, this was too hard, too sad, we can never do this again. And then we were on vacation and she was trolling around rescue sites, I guess. And she's it was like 2 years after our last dog died.

And she was like, I found one and I was like, you found one. What She's like a dog. And I was like, I thought like we travel somewhere. I thought this was never happening I was 100% for, but she was not. So. So there's this organization in Zionsville called the Love Pet Project and they rescue from breeders that the dogs are either not going for health reasons or for whatever reasons they work with Purdue Vet School to like they whatever surgeries or health stuff the dogs need, the Love Pet Project works with them to get that taken care of. So you get a healthy dog at the end.

Fozzie, I think, well, he's supposed to be a mini poodle and he is a standard. I think he was too big for the breeder to sell. Yeah, whatever. So we were like, we don't care. He's like the perfect dog. So we love him. Yeah. Yeah, I we have a Goldendoodle. He is a standard, but it's pretty small. He's like a medium size. He's 45 lbs. So he is the runt of his litter. His brothers are all huge. So that's kind of, you know, it worked out the way it's supposed to. But we call him designer Doug because we did not rescue him. We got him from a breeder, but he is just such a character and he's almost he's going to be 10 in April this year, so but he still runs with me.

He ran 5 miles with me this week and I don't know what I'm going to do when when he's gone. Don't think about it. I it's. Not worth it, Energy. I yeah. And my girls will just desperately miss him. So yeah, I know. We won't think about it. Yeah, so. It's great. Dogs are awesome. They are. Bazzi is He's not quite old enough to run, but he does and do really easy runs with me, OK? He turns a year next week, so he's sort of like, he is really. Yeah, he's really young. So he they say not to run really with him until they're like 12 to 18 months.

So I remember that. So we do like like he's walking and I'm going real slow. Yeah. It's fine. It's great. Yeah, now that I've started working on my speed or like doing speed work, like workouts. He like Doug, has no, he's like, no, yeah, this is not what I stand up for that, but I will, yeah, He does my easy runs with me as well. And as I've worked on my speed, my easy runs get a little faster. So he really actually helps me helps. Oh, good. Yeah, yeah, that's good. It's nice. I'm like, OK, I got to. Stay. I bet your coach loves that.

Yeah, right. Exactly. It's like I'm literally on a leash because he's attached to me behind me, like slow down alley, right? Yeah. OK. So how did you start running? So I was always an athlete, you know, through middle school, high school, even in college, I did a lot of intramural sports and they were always running based. I was tennis. I got varsity letters in tennis. But I I played ultimate Frisbee. I played soccer, baseball, everything. That was just running. And I never knew. I guess that cross country was a thing, right? Like, it just wasn't. I'm sure my school had it. We just, it was not the thing I ever thought about.

And then years ago 2012, my wife and I started doing CrossFit and I dreaded almost every workout. But if it was running, I was like, well, at least that part's easy for me. And I was like, maybe this is what I'm supposed to just do. Like I, you know, running. I, I never complain. It was never punishment in in other sports. I was like oh, that's the easy part, just the run. So I sort of started running serious, like actually thinking about running in what year are we now, 2024. So I'd say maybe six years ago is when I really like. I was still doing CrossFit at the time, but I was like, I'm running every weekend and putting effort into it, so.

When did you decide that you're going to do a race and what? So the I had done little 5K's throughout the history of my life, but there was a run for water 5K that my wife was doing through her work like as a a fundraiser to you know raise money for clean water around the world. And I signed up with her and at that time our oldest daughter was on the cross country team. So some of her team mates were on our little group rally team and I trained, I trained air quotes, air quotes, I trained for that not well and went out and did that 5K and threw up at the end.

Well, I threw up. I was like 100 yards from the finish line. And I pulled over to throw up. And I was like, my daughter was two at the time. She's 14 now. So that was, well, 12 years ago. Wow. Yeah. So I guess I've been running longer than I then you realize. Yeah. But yeah, So 12 years ago, she was at the finish line, and she thought that all running meant that you throw up. And so she's like, I'm going to run like daddy, OK. But that was so that was. I went out too hard I guess. Yeah, knock on wood, I've never done that.

It's my only time. Yeah, I've gotten a lot smarter. Yeah, I've peed my pants but during a race, but not not thrown up and thankfully I haven't pooped my pants while racing because where's I know the door is that real wood there's got. To be real wood runners. Somewhere, knock on wood, Yeah. And then so you started running kind of through CrossFit, realizing it was easy 5K. How did you start to graduate from that and get interested in longer distance stuff? I think that when things feel really easy to me, I just get bored so quickly, you know, like like right now, well, and I'm sure we'll talk about I just did dopey.

But like if you said, you know, go run a 5K right now, I like, I wouldn't even change my shoes. I'd be like, oh, OK. Yeah. Fine, fine, whatever. You know, like how do I have to go as hard or how hard do you want me to go? So I mean granted A5, if you're actually racing a 5K, like it could be a really challenging thing. But like if you're just like, hey go run 3 miles for me real quick, I'm like, OK and then what? Like what's that? So I think that I would I got, I don't want to say, I mean bored is sort of the right word but like I was always looking for the next challenge.

I really wanted to see how far I could push my own limits and what I could do so so then I just started adding distance. And then you just did dopey. We can talk about it. Let's talk about it now. OK. I'm just in awe of people that do dopey. I know it's a different culture of racing in terms of speed. I mean, it's all relative, right? But but the idea of doing 5K10K half marathon marathon all in a row, I'm just like, yeah, yeah, so. And you gave yourself that as a birthday present. I did, yeah. In 2022. That was actually my first half marathon race.

I did. I did the Wine and dine challenge. So my buddy up until very recently was the vice president of Marvel and we've always been big Disney fans. So he so we, you know it was easy to get rooms and all that kind of stuff. So he and I went and did the wine and dine together and you know it was 1/2 marathon. We had a lot of fun. Disney races are a totally different atmosphere. You know, they're they're just fun. If you're not having fun, you did it wrong. And so my daughter, my youngest daughter saw that and was like, I want to do a half with you or I want to do a Disney half with you.

And she was going to be the the right age. How? Old is she? She's 14 now, so. The younger one's 14. How's the older? 1/25/20. Five, OK. So, so she was going to be old enough the following year. And so when when I talked to my buddy Ron, he was like, well, let's do let's do marathon weekend because then we get to run through the castle like it's a different course and that'll be more fun for everyone. So, so Josephine was on board. I told her she had to train, She had to sign up for the cross country team, you know, like she had to do all these things to make sure she was actually getting her miles.

And so when I went to sign everyone up and my wife of course would wanted to to do it with us because she I got her into running. When I went to sign up, I was like, you know, 1/2 just doesn't seem like much. Like I enjoy half, but I want to challenge, but I want to run with my kids so I can't just sign up for the marathon. So I may as well just sign up for everything because a 5K and A10K mean nothing to me. So that was just like a blow off. So because you can do the goofy which is just the half and the full or the dopey which is all four.

So I was like, you know what if I'm going to do the half with my family and my buddy, I I may as well just do all of them so that I feel the challenge and the pressure of it. So I signed up for dopey as and that was my first marathon. I had not done that distance. Wow, how did you train? I trained hard. I trained in a lot of ways like an ultra, which was a lot of back-to-back long runs on tired legs. So I did some. I would sort of simulate how the race was going to be. So I might do 2-2 miles and then 5 miles and then 10 and 20 over consecutive days just to, you know, a couple other miles earlier in the week.

But just to get used to four days in a row. I also became the assistant coach for the cross country team at Center Grove so that I could get 2A days. I could run on my own and then run with the kids in the afternoon and that's where I met. Shout out to my my fast friends. I've run with this group of center Grove guys now that also coach and I can only run with them one day a week because they're way faster than me. But they're they're my fast friends and I it's, you know, well running community is just like when you meet the right people and you have these great training partners or whatever like you just you just like lock in and you have fun, so.

That's so nice. Yeah, so fast. What's? What's fast? What's? I know it's all relative. So they are right now they're training for Carmel Marathon. They're training to Boston qualify. OK I'm just doing the half and then cheering them on at Carmel. I'm not doing the. I'm I'm not. I need to work back up to a full but they they should have no problem. I would not be qualifying. OK. Yeah, that's kind of well, I can't say I'm, I have it out there now that I'd like to be Qi. Give me a year or two, right? It's like I gotta be patient. I'm the same. I'm in the same boat.

It's like I'm getting there. I've been working on my speed, but I know that it's not gonna happen overnight and I wanna do it in a way where I don't get injured or you know, so. And I don't know if I'm gonna be able to fit a full into my schedule this year. I'm still trying to determine whether or not I can get away with doing that in the fall. So we shall see. But so Dopey didn't crush you. Then you're ready for thinking of already thinking about your next marathon. Yeah, there were a lot of I know we're going to get into this later, too.

But I last year there were the strikes that met. No movies, no films were being made. So the actors were on strike and the writers were on strike. So I had a ton of time to train, which my family hated because I was never around. But yeah, similar to you, like when I like, I enjoyed the full and I would love to do another full. I don't know when I will have the time to actually put the work in to train for a full. Yeah, it's. It's a lot. It's another job, really. It is another job. The hours you have to be on your feet doing it, Yeah.

And not to mention also being a parent and trying to be like a parent. That's not utterly exhausted, right, Right. Give to you know, there's one thing about just being there, but also, like, you know, being there and not being half awake, naked or grumpy in my case. Yes, yeah, yeah. But I do. I think I taught. I I have hired a coach finally, which is new for me. OK, I was going to ask you if you used. One I do, I I have. I have been stealing information from 2 coaches for too long and finally I hired 1 Indiana runner girl Tracy is. My shout out to Tracy.

Shout out to Tracy and shout out to Cody. My friend Cody is an endurance ultra coach. OK, OK, And I was. I love him and I will do an ultra sometime. I'm not there yet, yeah. Yeah, same. It's I need I'm. So close to wanting to pull the trigger, yeah. I I just, I know it's going to be a huge time commitment and like with a middle schooler, like I just don't have the time. So anyway, but yeah. So Tracy I talked to her. We're working through these halves right now. I have three halves back-to-back this spring. But then if I can swing it with work, I'd love to do, Monumental as a full so.

Well, I'm biased. Because I know you are. But, but I also finally did the full yeah, in 22 and it was, it was great. It's such a great course, so nice and flat. Yeah, it's a good, it's a good race. So which halves are you doing? I'm doing caramel, OK And then I'm doing 2 weekends after that. Is the Kentucky Derby half OK in Louisville? And then I'll come back up and do the mini. OK. Are they? So they're. Mini and Derby are back-to-back. Usually the minis for is mini 1st and then no, it's not. No, it's April 27th and then May 4th or whatever.

Interesting. Yeah, the Flying Pig one. No, no, no, no. Kentucky Derby is. No flying pig is Cincinnati. Yes, those are back. Those are days. Those are days apart, OK? Days apart, Yeah, I. Don't know why I got. That one's on my that one. 'S on my list. That's on my list. I I always think about that one. Yeah. And I've I have know. I know people do them back-to-back. Yes, like because it's Saturday and Sunday, so you can like in theory. Yeah, in theory. That's something stupid I would do, I. Mean. Because you can, it's not that far away, right. OK. So Carmel, I haven't signed up yet.

I haven't signed up for any of. Them, Yeah. But those are the those are the three on my calendar, so. I I'm interested in the Sam Costa. I've never done that one. And then my my fast friends just texted me about that. They're like, we could do the quarter. And I was like, all right, so yeah, it's shout out to Tracy, who doesn't know that yet. Hey, Tracy, just add one more. Well, she can't talk. She did 3. I know, I know. She's like, Are you sure you want to do this? I'm like, what are you talking about? You did Berlin and New York and Chicago.

Crazy. Crazy lady. Yeah. So I want to talk. Well, I I don't is there any. I want to talk more about Disney. I feel like we just kind of so, so your Josephine did the half with you. Did she do any of the other races with you? No. So I have AI did the first two with a friend who's like a serious run. She does all the run Disney races and she had like she had the secret text list of like, yeah. You got the insights. So she's like, here are the characters that are out there. Do we want to stop? Who do we care about?

I'm like, so we did those together and then I had seated for the A Corral, but because of my times but my my wife and Josephine didn't have any times to submit so they were back in C So for the half marathon I started with them in C and they actually, so there was weather this year there was, I forgot. About the. Rain. There was the threat of a lightning storm, which never came, but there was the threat. So they shortened the half to 7.1 miles, which I will say my daughter was devastated. She was in tears because she's like, I worked so hard for this and I bought the shirt, you know, I'm like all this stuff.

And I was like, we can't control like you're still going to finish. It's just you can only do what they are giving you. So my wife, on the other hand, had pneumonia. She got it on December 9th and she was bedridden through Christmas until we left for Disney. And so in one way, 7 miles was sort of a blessing because she was like, no, I still want to do it. And I was like, it's OK, you don't have to. She's like, no, we signed up, we're doing this together and that was the plan. Always says that the half was always like we're holding hands the whole way.

So, so she Bran walked and like powered through. And Josephine for as sad as she was the night before, was like the biggest cheerleader going through it. So it was it was awesome and it did not. It barely sprinkled. OK, well, that's. And I know there's the threat of lightning. I get it. It was. But it was like, oh, there's nothing. Yeah, that's interesting that they did it the night before you knew. Just kind of nice that it's not a huge surprise like in the middle of the. Race. I've only experienced like that situation a couple times and it was here in Indy and it was the same race as the Indiana women's half and it was like just absolute downpour storm.

But we like just made our way. I mean, they said, hey, we're done. And they, like all the volunteers were gone, but we just kind of ran, ran around in the rain, Yeah, Which is, yeah, but. Well, and a lot of people like when they cross the finish line, went to the parking lot and we're doing laps and I was. Like I'm sure you're just like, well, OK. Like, I will get my like, I'm at Disney, I'm going to get my miles. Like we're doing the parks, my time on my feet. I'm not worried about it. I will say though, the marathon, it was about mile 16, between 16 and 17 and it started sprinkling and it was only supposed to be overcast for the marathon.

And the next thing I know it was like 30 mile an hour headwinds. It was a downpour, like torrential rain. And I get a text, a screenshot from my wife. It's like heavy rain for the next 45 minutes and so for basically miles 16 through 19. We even had to go off the course at points. It was raining so hard that there was, it had flooded at on the roads and so, so the marathon we got drenched, Drenched. Were you alone in the marathon? I was 100% alone, OK? Yeah, that. Well, at least you had your wife to tell you 45 minutes because mentally for me.

I didn't even see the text. I mean, I get it. I. Saw it and you're like OK. I can. I just knew it was raining and I, you know, I was getting so many because Josephine was texting me like I was getting so many texts that like, I just wasn't checking everything, you know, like, and I it's a lot to. Know it's weird as it sounds. It takes so much energy, yes, to like look and try to comprehend and like. So I yeah, I don't. Especially that late in the race you're like. Yeah, I'm just not. Yeah, paying attention to that. So I didn't. I didn't know how long the rain was going to last.

And I will say there was a point in mile 17 at that point I had gone through Animal Kingdom. So you you start at Epcot, you go up through Magic Kingdom, you come around. I saw my wife at mile 11 because we stayed at the Grand Floridian shout out to Ron for the discount. And so she was there to to meet me and you know hug me and everything and then you go down through Animal Kingdom. So I was like in the back part of Animal Kingdom and I saw this like garage shelter where they, you know, keep equipment and stuff. And I was like, I could go in there like this is what my brain was processed.

I was like, it's I could just wait the rain now and I was like, what am I talking about? Like all these other people are just doing it. Why? Why is my brain telling me quit now and this is I'm going to I'm going to do a name drop here but like Patrick Warburton who's AI think famous actor was what's that Emperor's new groove? Have you seen that one? Is he Cronk? Is that his name? OK, the lever Cronk. Anyway, so that's not how I knew him because not my generation, but I've since seen that movie. Anyway, I passed the screen, had that movie playing and he's a friend of mine and I was like, Patrick's going to get me through.

So I just pushed through that little bit until the rain stopped. And then, but you know, my pace dropped off. Like everything dropped off until the rain stopped and then I was back to normal. That's rough. Your I mean your shoes get. Wet. Oh, it. And it was so cold. Like, I mean, it was not cold cold, but it was, It was, you know, probably 50 with the wind. And I was just drenched, you know, And I was like, Oh my God, this is not what I signed up for. No, this is not the happiest place on earth right now. Yeah, that's not what you envision for that.

It's like, no, it's supposed to be sunny. And it's. Florida, It's. Florida. Yeah, they've had a cold winter for them. So I saw the picture of you. Was it the marathon picture where you had the bloody nipple? I did have the bloody. Nipple That picture is hilarious. I I love that you also poked fun at yourself in that photo because it's like everybody has. I mean, I have more horrible race photos of myself than I have good ones for. Sure. Oh, absolutely. But you're just like, yeah, so here I am like, this facial expression is great and my nipple is bleeding. And this is what I paid a lot of money to do, yes?

Thousands of dollars. And when can I sign up for the next one, right? Yeah, I did. I have all my pictures downloaded that I'm going to send to my brother and I'm like, can you just remove the blood so that I can, like, frame some of these? Because it's weird. I don't. I've never had that happen before. So what? But every everything that I put on with the rain had come off anyway, so. Yeah. Even if you'd had any. Yeah. Any sort of, yeah. It's like that much rain is is tough. It was a lot of rain. Well, at least you weren't like wearing a costume.

I'm sure there were plenty of people in costumes there. Were plenty of people in costume and I'm sure it was more miserable for them? Yes. That would be rough. That would be that would be hard. We did costumes the day before, but that was. What were your costumes? So Josephine was Cinderella? I mean, she was in a Bluetooth like Cinderella, right? I keep hitting this thing. Sorry is this loud for everyone if I hit this. Smack it on. There. And so we went as two of the mice. I was Gus, Gus and then my wife was Perla, which is the one of the the female mice that does the sewing.

So, oh, I didn't know that she had a name. I learned something. New today, that's kind. Of a cool name too. Yeah, so we had our little, like I was roasting because I had a hat that I had sewn ears and I was like, oh man, but I'm leaving this on and the tail was flapping and. It was, yeah. I've never run in a costume. Yeah, maybe at. Some point, I mean, we were very mediocre costumes. Well, I've seen some like, yeah. Some people. Crazy. Yes. And you're like, how? Yeah, I mean, shoot. Now there's an athletic brand that's specific for like the Disney type of situation where you can literally just wear running clothes and they look like a costume.

Right. Like they they're printed with like little more like a scales and stuff. Yeah, I've seen all that. Stuff that feels like cheating to me now, 'cause I agree, you know, but that's. Probably I want some cardboard and duct tape. Yes, want. Somebody to be Walt. Well, is Wally Disney. Yeah. Yeah, Wally is Disney. Someone dresses Wally and try to run around. That would be. Intense. But there's this guy jogging Jack Sparrow. I don't. Know I do follow him on Instagram because I love Jack Sparrow. Yes, I went through. I do a Jack. I do a Jack. I saw that on your Instagram and I was like, This is why I know I'm going to like Gordon Reason #5 I found.

But I would not run in that costume. Yeah, he's a he's great though. He's a super. I mean, I've only met him as character, so I assume he's a nice guy, but he's like super friendly and he's so much fun out there on the course. That's so funny. So. Sadly, Josephine was like dying to meet him and because of the rate, like everything about the half fell apart. So it didn't happen. But he's a cool guy. Is Josephine going to do another race, One of the spring ones? So we have been encouraging her to do the Mini OK, but I'm not forcing it. I want her to love it.

Right. So I'm not. I'm not forcing it. She wants to join the track team. She. She. We'll see. Will she listen to this? Yeah, I'm going to make her listen to. This. Yeah, just do it. Do it do. It and I'm trying to get my buddy Ron who he lives in New York. I'm trying to get him out to do the Mini so we can all still do the half together that we had planned so. Yeah, you got to have a redo that. I mean, for your first race that you've trained so hard for it. That is heartbreaking. It is heartbreaking because I've run over 50 half marathons and that's happened to me like once or twice and that's that's.

And it's so rare. Right. It doesn't happen very often and yeah. And I get it. Safety, safety, safety, safety. I get it. But it was it was sad. Yeah, I feel like anywhere else, like a smaller race, you probably wouldn't even have had that. But Disney and with all the people. All the volunteers characters. And you know what's crazy though is like, the parks didn't close or anything. I'm like, what what did they do about the land? Right. There's like children. Yeah, so that was OK. But anyway, I know it's people make hard decisions. Yeah, that's tough. More power to him. So I'm glad I don't have to make those decisions.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, congratulations on your first. Thank you, thank you very much and I did hit my goal so. That's even better. What was your goal? Sub four. Sub Four at Disney. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So did you stop and take pictures with characters during the? Marathon I did. I did. And you had a sub four. Yes, I. That's legit. I did not stop until near the end. So after the rain and I sort of, I had slowed down during the rain. I mean, there was just nothing I could do. Like my legs were like, this is as fast as we can move in this.

But as soon as the rain stopped and I could get back up to speed a little bit, I was like, all right, I can, I can stop a few times. Wow. So I stopped for three characters, you know? Yeah, I I don't like to stop because my legs have such a hard time restarting. Well, and yes, that's true, but. But. There were no like, I stopped at once. I had no lines. So it's just like I could literally run in, get a quick, do my thumbs up and take off and. Well, I feel like at Disney, I mean, that's what you do. That's the part.

Of the experience, they say you PR and fun like you really. Yeah, like I did not. So Animal Kingdom. Some people ride Everest. Oh, interesting. I don't know what that is. It's one of the rides, and traditionally it's not written in stone, but traditionally the cast members who work that ride will usher runners in through the single rider line so they don't have to wait in line. And then you go on the ride and then you jump back out and keep going. And some people do that with what? Tower of Terror as well, which is my favorite ride. But but Tower of Terror is a much longer ride because have you done it?

No. OK. I couldn't. I'm. The actual ride is not long, but like all the lead up is. So when I went through Animal Kingdom where Everest is, it was not open yet so there was no I couldn't do that one. And then when I got to Hollywood Studios where Tower of Terror was, I was drenched and on my mission to to get my sub four and had I stopped, I it would have been really too close. So. Tower of Terror. So they like, take, they like, do they give you the anticipation? Is that why there's so much lead up? Because they're trying to? Like I could.

I couldn't handle that. I don't like that. I don't like the feeling of the roller coaster feeling like the when your stomach drops, do you get that feeling in the tower? Yeah, I don't. I I couldn't. Handle it So the way that Tower of Terror works, it's like an abandoned haunted Hollywood hotel is what they're saying. And you, you get into the little thing and it like, takes you all through the hotel. You're doing this thing and then all of a sudden you're on the top floor and the door is open and you drop at like, you know you drop fast enough that the the seat, you separate from the seat and then it stops and then you shoot back up and it.

Oh my gosh, what mile would that be of a? Marathon that would have been 21. But like the idea that just is mind blowing to me. Yeah, that's pretty funny. So I know a lot of people do that. I I at that point I was so dead set though I was like, Nope. I like if I had been, if I knew I was going to be over 4 or if I was like at 3:30 I would have been like of course. But I was like, I was on the bubble and I was like, OK, I got sub four means more to me than. Than this part, Right?

You've done some of your fun already too, so yeah, yeah. Wow, that's so that's crazy. Yeah, Disney runs are. It's a different thing. Now will you do Disney again? Will you? Are you kind of like, OK, I experienced that. Now I want to do other things or. I mean, the only thing that I considered, and actually I missed it because registration was right now while I was driving up here. The registration is a nightmare. But there's a Disneyland Halloween race this year and like, I'm that's our favorite holiday. We're big Halloween people. And I was like, oh, that would be fun. But it's just so expensive.

Yeah. And it, you know, and and it's not just that the race is expensive, but like, you know, like you're at Disney, California. You have to stay in a hotel. You got to, yeah. So I said no, sadly. Well, yeah. But I have plenty of races to do so. Yeah. Oh man. Oh yeah. I I don't know if I'll do Disney. I I keep saying I want to I there's so many races I want to do so. I had always, I always said if I was going to do a marathon because I didn't care about a marathon at first. You know, when you first start running, you're like, I don't need a marathon.

But I always said if I was going to do a marathon, I was first would be Disney or Honolulu because like where else would you rather be? Like the happiest place on earth or the other happiest place on Earth? And so now that I've done it, I feel like I could I I don't have to do it again and I could race anywhere now. But like, you know, we have great marathons around and we have Carmel, we have the the one in Columbus IN the mill race. It's a great race. I haven't done that one. Either I've done the half, never the full obviously the monumental, but I was always like Nope, first one I want it to be.

That's cool. Well. Good for you. Yeah. And you've run, this is a good segue into all the places that you've run because I was, you know of course, cyber stalking you. Yes. And I just was in awe of all the different countries you've run in. And So what takes you to those countries? Work. Vacation. Both. Yeah, so three things take us various places. So for I told her I wouldn't say this, so I'll say it My wife is a genius. She's very smart. She is the Director of Honors at IU East in Richmond. She used to be a Spanish professor, but now she's doing the honors program.

So a lot of our travel is when she takes students abroad. So her actual area of study is medieval food, Mediterranean medieval food studies. So we spend a lot of time in Spain or other Mediterranean countries studying food culture and how it has changed over the years. So that's a big portion of travel. So like, she actually had a an exchange, a campus exchange with the University of Bologna in Italy. And so we were, we spent the summer in Bologna, one year and she was just doing work. And I was like, well, I'm just going to hang out in Bologna. Yeah. Well, actually I have a story that's a good segue for that one.

We were taking a pasta making class. Oh, fun done that. And the lady teaching it was a runner. And so we were talking about different trails. And so she gave me this trail to do and I went and did it the next day. And the idea was there's this famous church that has a pilgrimage right up on top of a mountain. And so everyone, like, does this hike. And so she sort of gave me a roundabout way to go up the mountain on the backside, get up there, and then come down the pilgrimage trail to get home. I was like, OK, great, I'll do that.

So I wake up and, you know, I'm in Italy. I I have my shoes but I don't have like. My gear, you know, I don't have like all my my belt, you know, everything. I don't, I don't even have a handheld water bottle. So I just take off. Well, I'm going up the mountain. Everything is great, as great as it can be running up a mountain. And I get to a clearing and I look out and I see the the church and I realize it's on a different mountain. I had run up and like past it and gone up the next mountain. So then I had to go down and back up and then down to get home.

So I got lost in Italy. Oh man. But, and you know what should have been? I don't know, maybe just like a little more than a 10K turned into. I think it was almost 15 miles or something when I got home. Diane was like, are you? Where were you? I was so worried. I bet I've been up, up and down to mountains. Like I had to go to see the I had to do the pill. I had to get home like I guess. Oh, so you didn't have a choice? No. I mean my choice was turn around or keep going and loop back so. Yeah.

Oh, wow. But who wants to backtrack? Yeah, no, that's especially when you're trying to explore. And I I studied abroad in Luxembourg, beautiful. I was kind of during that time, and I've said this on this podcast before, that my relationship with running was unhealthy at 1st. And so it still was at this time I I got to read through the emails I would send my mom when I was studying abroad. And it was like I talked a lot about how much I got to run and like food. And it was very weird bizarre reading back. But so I would get up and like no matter where we were, I would run.

And if I didn't have a trail I would just run back and forth. And I remember it's it's a miracle I didn't get like kidnapped because I remember 1 morning I had to I woke up it was still dark and we were at like, I don't know why, I don't know where we were at a hostel. There was like a truck stop. Sorry mom, I don't know. And I like, got up, it's raining. It's cold. I just ran back and forth until I got to like however many miles I was going to run. But I don't remember ever getting lost, thankfully, but I'm sure I had to have at some point.

Well, run in. I do now run with my phone. Yeah. Because especially in in other countries, because I just like, I don't know where I I don't know anything. Yeah, yeah. And if I need to fortunately everywhere you know you can just tap with your phone to pay. So like if I needed hydration or something I could just run into a little convenience store. But I didn't used to run with my phone and I was like this is probably not smart. I should I should be safer about? This, thankfully, having the phone. And to your point, like being able to pay with it. I've done that before in Carmel on Main Street.

Oh really? Yeah 'cause it's like if I do a long run sometimes I'll run all the way from my house in West Carmel all the way to the Monon, OK? And then do the rest of my miles and then go back. And so yeah, I've I've had my phone. I don't bring my case that has my wallet right, But thankfully most places now take Apple Pay. Yeah, take Apple. Pay. Otherwise I just beg them for. I will come back, I promise. I'll give you $3. I need to just get home and take me 25 minutes and then. Yeah, maybe. Like here, just just take this bottle.

Take the water, it's OK. Yeah. So Italy, where else? So Spain. You've run in Spain. Then I've done a lot of running in Spain. Spain we go to so often. We'll be there this summer. Do you speak Spanish? And Tiendo mucho so I can understand almost everything that they say. But my I I always default to Diane and she hates it. But yeah, my speaking is I just was in Mexico and I can speak. I I mean, you know, I know a lot of vocabulary. But in terms of trying to sound like the verbiage and the right tenses and the right grammar, it's like, you know, I can kind of get my point across to where they'll kind of laugh and they know what I.

Mean I got the important words in. Tequila. Tequila, por favor. But yeah. But yeah, we I ran in Morocco, we were in Africa, so it and people gave me a hard time. Air quotes again, but because I said just a little stroll along the North African coast because you know, I was on the coast and it was Africa. Like when does that happen? And then we also, so a lot is for her travel or for her work stuff. Costa Rica we go to often. She takes students down there, so I get to run on those beaches and mountains, but then we also travel for film festivals for me.

And so like 1/3 is her, a third is that and a third is just vacation. So, so just last year, yeah, we were in Spain, we were in France, Italy, Morocco, well, Portugal. That was my real birthday gift. Was Portugal. That's on. That's on a list for me. I got. To put it higher. Wherever it is, put it, put it higher. People have said it's like the Hawaii of Europe. Is that a fair assessment? It's got to be way different. No, because it's in Europe. So we were in Lisbon. We were only there for five days, so we didn't get to explore as much as we normally do.

But Lisbon is identical to San Francisco. It's they have a Golden Gate Bridge, they have crazy hills. And I mean, not identical, but you know what I mean? Like that's the feel. Of it, yeah. And it is the 4th safest country in the world and it is the cheapest country in Europe. Cheapest, cheapest. That's not going to last very long. People are. I mean, I feel like it's getting more and more popular. I mean we so we were there with there were eight of us. Fun. And on our last night we went to a Michelin star restaurant that we just walked into. We didn't have a reservation, we just walked in and for eight of us, food and drink.

The total bill was €285, which is like 305 dollars. What? Yeah, for eight people. For Michelin star food per person. That's like if we went to dinner here, that's it would not be on her to pay 202 fifty for two of us. It was crazy. That is wild. That's so cool. So put Portugal high on the list. Gosh, I want to go everywhere. Gordon, I do too. I mean especially like after the pandemic, you know, when you didn't get to go anywhere, now it's like, OK, I want to go everywhere, but we still have, our kids are still pretty young and so it's like leaving them is is hard.

So at some point we'll do more, I hope, travel, but man. Yeah, it's yeah, Josephine. So last summer when we were no Tucson, I don't know, we were in Spain and Diane and I went early and then she and her sister flew out later to meet us in Spain. So I can't remember what year that was. So Josephine doesn't get to go on all the trips, but she gets to go on some of them, I mean. You can't spell her that much. That'd be you. I know. Well the film festivals are hard because, like it is so much fun. But I it's like, how do I explain it like a work party?

Yeah, you know, like. I mean, that's not fun for shoot. I mean, that wouldn't be fun for her if I picture like, going to work parties. Yeah, but but they're but they are fun but. I'm sure they are for. Yeah, like, I know she wants to. Like she wants to walk the red carpet. She wants to do all the, all the that's. Fair. Yeah. OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want. So wait, have you didn't done any races while you've been? No, so, so actually when we were just in Portugal, we did a first thing we did, got off the plane, we landed at 8:00 AM, got off the plane and we went to do a bike tour of the city.

Because you don't want to sleep, right? You need to stay awake and like beat the jet lag. So we went and did this bike tour and our host guide. He was so great, but he was leaving after the Tour to drive to Spain, 4 hours away to do a race, the the half marathon in Sevilla. And I was like take me with you. I was like I could go, All my friends are here for my birthday but I can go with you to do this. Like, I don't know what I was thinking, but I do want to start being deliberate now and look for races, even if it's just a 5K just to do.

Just to. Do something. Yeah, I, we, my husband and I are about to celebrate 10 years of being married. Our first wedding anniversary. We went to Italy and Germany and in Rome. I think it must have been the day we got there. Day. I forget there was a race. I don't know what distance, I don't remember. But I remember looking up and being like, Dang it, like he might have. He might have left me on the spot, but like, he yeah, he has run. He did a marathon with me when we were dating, but he's more so like he's. Not, but now that you're married, he's like, I'm out.

I did my job. I put the ring on it. Now I'm out. But I would love. I I will do an international race at some point, yeah. I had that happen in Madrid where I was just doing my morning run and I saw I was like, oh, that's all, that's all blocked off. And like there's a bunch of people. Oh man, I wish I had not. Yeah, that sucks. Yeah, I we were. I've had that happen when we were on vacation in Arizona. I didn't know it was before. Now I'm a little bit more crazy and all like when I'm going. To you're sort of in tune to go.

Around and kind of see what's going on. But yeah, then I mean, but my family, everyone, my dad and I would have gone my everyone else would have been like rolling their eyes. Like really, really guys start vacation. But yeah, I want to talk about the film stuff because it's so intriguing to me. I don't really know anything much at all about the industry. I do have a business idea that's in the industry that I'll get your feedback on, but so how? How did you get started in film and theater? So theater I've done my whole life. I went to park tutor and did theater there and when I went when I went to college, I apparently told my dad, you're not going to squash my dreams are you?

Or something. But to that effect like I so so I went to theater school then and where did you? Go to Where did you go? To I went to Ithaca College. They have it's a it's it's where Cornell is. It's in Ithaca, NY but they have ABFA so a Conservatory program. So I was doing design the tech and design program there because that So what? Conservatory means. Well, Conservatory basically means I only took theater classes. OK. So I have ABFA, not ABA, Bachelor of Fine Arts, instead of a Bachelor of Arts. And I I basically tested out of math, science, language, history. I tested out of everything and the ones that I would have had to take first.

I don't want to say remedial, but like, it's not a full liberal arts education, which is what I teach now and I would never, I am such a fan of it and I would never have someone do what I did. But that's another story. But anyway, so I was all set to do theater and every everyone from Ithaca went, moved to New York City and worked in New York in theater. And right after college I actually got a job teaching theater in Cincinnati. So I was there for a while teaching and I loved it. But I guess like I said earlier, I got, I wanted more challenge.

So I went back to Graduate School and I was at IU for Graduate School, which is where I met my partner, my business partner Zach. And gosh, that would have been early 2000s. So I left after I well, so then I kind of part way dropped out IU because I got a job in New York designing Christmas windows and then I was like I should probably just finish my degree. So I left the job, came back, finished, started teaching at Franklin College and and then I've been freelance designing, set designing for like IRT and the Phoenix and every location of the Civic Theater. So they're right up here now up in Carmel.

Anyway, so I was doing all my design work, and then in 2016, I hadn't talked to Zach in years since we had been at IU together. He was like, I want to make a movie. I was like, OK, He's like, yeah, I think that you should design it. I was like, OK, I don't know anything about it. It's like, I don't know anything about it either. So we knew. Yeah, we knew nothing about it. And it actually was perfect because we had no one to tell us. No, we had no industry professional. That was like, you can't do this. So we did it, and we made plenty of mistakes, but we made a movie and it won a bunch of awards.

And so yeah, I guess 2016 sounds right is when we started. We've made seven feature films and seven. We're working on a bunch, right? Now and. Countless short films. Wow. Yeah. How do you do that in Indiana? So. That was actually part of our mission. Was to do it in Indiana because so many people want to study it and do. I mean, Ball State has a degree, IU has a degree, kids. I mean, I made movies when I was a kid, you know, everyone was doing this stuff. So and then you have to leave. You have to go to Chicago or New York, LA and Atlanta now.

And we're like, what if we built an industry here so that people could actually like, not leave? And the cool thing about it is because there's really no industry here is that it is so easy to get business partnerships, right. So we end up being able to do things so much cheaper because people want to be involved. You know, like the the community's, like you want to make a movie. Yeah. So we we've been fortunate. Now I will also say we are both from Indiana, right? I grew up here in Indianapolis, in Indianapolis and Zach grew up in Greencastle. So when we go knocking on doors to a local business, we at least have Hoosier heritage.

Whereas if somebody from LA came in, it's like I'm going to make a movie here. Like I it might be a different story. I think it would be, yeah. So I can see. That so we have we have that going for. Us. But you know, we're trying to do interesting things and it's tough. There's not, I don't want to get way into it, but there's not great tax legislation for filmmaking, right. The incentives for that's why Atlanta. Has become such a hot bed, right? Because they have. They have great incentives in. Chicago, IL, pretty much every surrounding state does. Indiana just is not fully on board yet.

So. So it's been a struggle. But you know, we're, like I said, we're seven films in. We're raising money right now to do a huge one this summer that I can nebulously talk about. Yeah, it it involves a small partnership with a large university. So I guess I can say that. Cool. And what? What types of films so we have made? A couple dramas, some comedies, A thriller. Are you familiar with West Baden Hotel in French? Lick. Yes. I've never been. OK, you should go. It's beautiful, Add. It to the list, but we. Partnered with Cook. Medical and and Cook actually owns the West Baden Hotel.

And so there's a novel called so-called The River written about that hotel. And so we adapted the novel to be a feature film and partnered with Cook and and made it at the hotel. So. Wow. Yeah. So I must admit, Gordon, that. So I know you from Instagram as a runner, right? And so when I was prepping for this, I googled you and like your IMDb was the first thing and I was like so confused. I was like, is this is this Gordon? And then I realized very quickly that it was. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I had no idea that you were also in this in the film industry and theater and doing all of those things.

How how can people find the films that you've made? So right now we. Have a bunch on Prime? Well, I will tell you the best way to do it is on iTunes because that's the iTunes is the best to artists. So if you purchase on iTunes, that's what helps our crews the most. But everything that is currently released is on Prime. We have two that will release, three that will release this year. So they're not anywhere yet. So four are on Prime and three are coming out. OK, wow, that's really. Cool. I'll definitely link that so people can find them. And so is it just you and Zach and then you have a lot of contract people that you work with or exactly.

And there's this other guy. We had another guy, John, and then he we started a nonprofit and he sort of split off and went to the nonprofit. But then we brought in another guy, John. So we had John one point O and John two point O. And John sort of has his own company, but he we consider him a partner with our company because he helps with the the fundraising and everything. He's he is a true finance guy and Zach and I are not. So that helps. Yeah, yeah, he's got to have somebody on the numbers. We. Have no idea. Yeah, just. Like, I mean, there's so much we don't know.

Like if you gave me a camera right now and you're like, hey, make a movie, I'd be like, I I don't even know how to turn this thing on. I I can't even. I could talk to you. And ask you questions about filmmaking and all that for hours. I cuz I just know nothing about it. I did watch an entire documentary on the making of Frozen 2 because I was so intrigued by yeah how the heck do you even go about doing this? And it was really informative. But still there's so many details that you don't, you know, you just don't think about. And I try to explain it to people like.

We we pay our crews and then they, I don't want to say they don't care, but like you pay the crew and then they're done. And it could be another two or three years before the film comes out. So for Zach and and myself, it's like our baby, you know, and we have it now for the rest of its life. But the crew, they're kind of like, and I got paid already and I'm on my next job and like, that's great that it came out. But I don't, I don't care as much as you do. I'm like, I need to sell it. So yeah. So when when you make a film, you sort of learn all that nuance and you just have this thing for the life of your life.

You have it forever. So how? How is it finding talent? Here, do you have to do you have to bring people in? Oh, yeah. No, we so. That's where with our first film, Zach after after he left IU, moved to New York and became a very accomplished actor and got roped in with a lot of great talent and casting agents. So our first film, the reason that a lot of independent films don't make it very far is because they don't have names that you recognize. So we had Danny Glover in our first film. And so, yeah. So we were like, I don't know if I'm going to wreck.

I'm not very good with names, but I know. That one, Yeah. Danny Glover. A lot of people know Danny Glover. And then John C McGinley was also in that film and so, so we were sort of fortunate that that Zach had that connection to a casting director and was able to to get them. So the move the the movie that I'm most excited about is called The Duel. We filmed it here in Carmel. We filmed it at Asherwood Estate, which is Mel Simon's old. OK, on 106th and ditch, that's cool. I've never even been in there. Yeah, going. In there would be cool. It was very cool and we filmed.

It in secret during the Pandemic and the reason we did it in secret, partly because it was pandemic and we didn't want to deal with people. But it stars Dylan Sprouse, OK, I don't know who that is. That's because you're. Of a different. Generation My daughter, my oldest, loves Dylan Sprouse. He was one of the twins from Suite Life of Zack and Cody, and he was Ross's son on Friends and Big Daddy and all that. Anyway, he's like a young Hollywood hit guy, but like, to people who are 25 and 25 and younger know him and the rest of us are like, like, I met him as a kid because I knew his babysitter randomly anyway, So.

But we had to film it in secret because we didn't want people mopping the set because he's of like the Instagram generation that like, if he had let word out that he was in town, people would have been been everywhere. So that's really cool, yeah. OK, I'm. I'm. Going to tell you about my business. Idea. And we're. And then we're going to segue again because I could talk to you about this for too long. And I don't know if anyone else cares. I'm sure they do. It's interesting. Oh, yeah, this is the best. Oh, this is about running. Oh yeah, running podcasts. And now I lost my train of thought.

Cool business plan, business plan, business idea. So think of it's like a day long experience where you as just a common person get to experience what it's like to be an actor specifically for like a movie or TV show. So it's like, I don't know, think of like escape room type of things, but you get a script, you do a table read, you go in hair and makeup, you actually get to make the scene or whatever and just experience what that's like. I think that that would be really fun. So we have done. We have donated to various charities like be a producer for a day.

So somebody bids on that and then they come on set and they sort of get to hang out with us all day and like you know see what a producer does and all that kind of stuff. So that's that's kind of the the concept. Because it's like for some, an outsider, you know, I just don't, I don't know anything. And I think it'd be fun to kind of put yourself in those shoes. It's a lot less glamorous than you think. I I I'm sure I I can. Imagine well and right now this is the Segway I'm I'm reading or listening to Matthew Perry's book. OK and.

You know he. At one point had the biggest movie and the biggest TV show like on the planet and but he talks about how you know it's it's in a lot of ways it's a job, right. And obviously he went through a lot of hardships. And that's where I'm going to segue to the topic of mental health because I think that that's one of the things that I really want people to take away from your story is, is really dialing in your mental health, figuring out kind of all the pieces to that puzzle. Because thank God, now people are talking about it because I feel like for personally, for me that's helped me figure out how to put those pieces together and and how much work it takes to do that so.

So I don't know where it makes. Sense most sense to start but I would love to have that conversation with you sure that's that's that's my. My mission, my personal mission is mental health advocacy. So, so I was initially diagnosed with bipolar when Josephine was a baby and her mother and I were going through a divorce. And I begged the doctor to drop or change the diagnosis because I did not want to lose custody and not even like my my ex-wife and I are. We're very good friends. We hang out all the time. Her husband was just helping me yesterday with the project. Like there was never there's not we we do.

They were all at Disney together. Like we we hang out a lot. But the we weren't like fighting over anything. But I just was so worried that the stigma surrounding mental health and specifically with bipolar that like even though we weren't fighting. Would some random judge in this divorce thing see this and be like, well, you can't, you can't take care of a child, you know? So I begged for that not to become public, and I tricked myself into thinking I could manage it myself. Yeah. And so Fast forward we're I'm remarried. She's remarried. And you know, I I like when you're bipolar. You do have a lot of normal time.

I guess normal is the right way to say it. You're not always manic and you're not always depressed, right? You you can live some normal time, but when you get manic or hypomanic or in a depressive state, it's so severe and it lasts for a significant amount of time. And so Diane, my wife, was like kind of at her wits end. She's like, we we cannot live like this. You have to do something. And I ended up finding a new therapist who has been like a lifesaver for me because that it's so hard. It like, I think a lot of people don't want to do therapy because they're like, well, I just want to find out, yeah, it does take time.

Like you're not going to, you're not going to connect with every therapist and you know, you want to find one that can actually relate to you, how you are, where you are. So I was very fortunate to find this one and I found her because she was the one that called back like I called like 20 therapists because Diane was like at her wits end. And I was like, I got to, I got to do something. So this is the one that called me back and it's been this perfect relationship with her and so she has been helping me and then partnered with my doctor to get the medication right.

And then I I used to be a full professor at Franklin College. But the film stuff, everything was getting so busy that I was really over stressed. So I moved to a part time position there so I could do film and and teach but have less meetings. So removing that work stress. Obviously the running helps. Yeah, but this is what I try to talk about people. It's all these pieces. You can't just like medicine alone won't fix it. Running alone won't fix it. Especially like what if you get hurt? What are you going to do, you know, or if you have the wrong medicine, like a bad reaction.

There's so many little variables, so you have to just sort of fine tune all those pieces. So if one thing happens like, oh God, I'm so stressed at work right now, it's OK because I've got six other all these tools. Yeah, tools in my. In my. Workshop So how did you originally? Become diagnosed like, how did you know to get? Help Or I mean how how did that? I I so. And does that and do you have bipolar your entire? Life. Or is it something that develops? It's a great question. Not a lot. Is there an answer? Yeah, there's not really an answer. There. There are a lot of theories and, you know, like, is it genetic or is it this, Is it that Or some people predispose and then have a trigger event, you know, there there's all this stuff.

So I'm a middle child, which is already a recipe for disaster. And so I remember seeing a therapist as a child because I had anger issues. And then, you know, like I sort of went through college and was quote UN quote normal. I, you know, I'm sure I had moments of depression and whatnot. But then after college I got back into therapy, mostly just because I thought it was a good outlet and it was helpful for me. I enjoy talk therapy. I also was in a major car accident and had a lot of brain trauma because of that. So so then there's the question like OK, I already had anger issues but then like was there this trigger event that like you know whatever, whatever thing got switched, got flipped and like and just made everything worse.

So, so I was always in bouncing between therapists and trying to trying to find that. But again, I didn't have all the tools. I didn't have all the pieces I needed to make it right and I was very anti medicine. I wanted to be stronger than that and I wanted to prove that, you know, I could do this and it's a mind game and it's just not like sometimes you just need medicine and that's OK. So, so like I said, finally bouncing into this therapist that has been the good fit for me. And I mean I was on the wrong medication for years. And my partner Zach called Diane after a film and was like, what is wrong with him?

Like, he just isn't functioning. So they. So then my doctor did the genetic test on me and she's like, Yep, this medicine is like, awful for you. We need to try this one. And so then I got on that one. And then actually, that's when I got Vertigo. So then I was like, God, did this medicine cause Vertigo so that I stopped taking it, which is so bad to do. Yeah, you can't. Which I think is so interesting. That you? Can't just like cold Turkey stop. You can't just. It's so bad. Because because it is producing chemicals in your brain and then you know like to just stop that or you know it just it sends everything into into haywire.

So, so it did. It took me a long time to sort of find that balance, find the right medicine. And, you know, now that I have, it's like, I mean, Diane said it last night. She's like, you're just not even the same person, you know, you're like, pleasant. I don't know. Not that I'm always unpleasant, but, you know, like, like I haven't had a hypomanic or manic episode in years. I haven't had a depressive episode in years. I think I told you online the other day how I approach every run as like a positive thing. You know, like I I don't dread anything. I mean I have a 14 year old.

She is like a pain in the I can cuss right now. She's a pain in the ass. But like you know I'm still finding the positives and like not like I'm sugar coating stuff. I mean, you know, but but I'm not just dreading and hating and and being angry and and all that. So gosh, yeah, I've been on. Three different antidepressants, anti anxiety medicines. And it started when I had my second when I was pregnant with my second daughter. I had a really traumatic first birth experience and I didn't realize how much anxiety it was going to cause me when I had another child. And I was kind of in denial.

Like, I'm strong. I don't need any help. Like, and I remember sitting in the nurse's office and heard talking to me about it and my husband being like, we need, yeah, we need some help. And I and I didn't really realize it until he spoke up and we started talking through it more. And she's like, listen, like this is really common. You, you know, you can really benefit from this, But then you know, it like the medicines have all kinds of different impacts. And I can't remember the first one I was on, but it like, made me like a zombie. Like I didn't feel like myself.

Like I had no emotions. I never like. I just felt like I was just kind of coasting and I didn't like that feeling. And then I switched to something else. And then I gained a bunch of weight. This was after a baby. And I was thinking, gosh, I'm in the best shape of my life. Like, why am I gaining weight? So then I switched again and then I dropped all the weight. And now? Now I seem to be in a decent place at the moment, But it's like, I think you just always have to have that conversation with your doctor and with your therapist and with your significant other.

Yeah, you're. Someone who's witnessing it because it's it's just so. Hard. You don't want it. Like a lot of times you don't want to admit that you need the help. And you know, my husband is going, we're going through the same thing. He's on medication as well now and it's it's really changed our lives for the better, better. But it's like it's not just you get on medicine and then it's over and it's fixed. It's like, no, you have to make sure you know. And as life changes and there's different stressors, I just think it's such an important conversation to have. It is so huge.

And, you know, and and you, like I said, you need other people looking at you objectively that can and emotionally, you know, that can, that can weigh in. Because, I mean, I didn't know what I was like on set. The movie was getting made. I was doing my job. I didn't know that I was so unpleasant. And like you said, a zombie most of the time. You know, like, yeah, So it, you know, if if your friends love you, they're going to try to find a way to help. Yeah. And it's hard because you have to. Be open to hearing. You have to be open and receptive.

I can be very. Defensive and I it's it's hard to kind of come to, you know. Yeah, But but it's, I mean the fact that you have that like in your Instagram name like running with bipolar and you're so open about it. I think it just makes even just that, just the simple name, like the fact that you're like raising your hand and saying this is something that I, that I have, that I deal with, that I manage, you know, Yeah, I try. Yeah, I try to bring awareness to as many people as I can and I get a lot of hate messages because like somebody a big run influence role, say like, Oh my gosh, we love to run because we're psycho.

And I'll just comment, love you, love your stuff. Just want to say like as someone who actually takes an antipsychotic, that word, you know, like maybe there's another way to say this that like you get your point across without dealing with people who actually our psycho, you know, our psych half psychotic episodes or whatever. So again, I know you didn't mean it that way, but hey, just so that it's out there, you know, I've done it with with plenty of run influencers. And then I mean, it depends on, I try to do it with a private message, but if there's someone who gets so many that they don't check, I'll do it as a comment on Instagram.

And then the hate just comes to, like, shut up. You don't know what you're talking about. Like it doesn't matter. Just like, well, it kind of does you. Know like. This is we. Our society has such a stigma around it that anything we can do to lessen that stigma is worth it to me, so that people can start actually approaching the help that they need, getting it the right way. So, well, thank you, Well and everyone. All the influencers. Are always receptive, you know, they're like, oh, yeah, I hadn't thought about that. Thanks for pointing it out. Right. But yeah, there's I. The Internet. I know the Internet.

It's so great and it's. So terrible at the same time. That's why you have to curate your feed, yeah. Right. It's so hard. It's just and it's. And it's hard because no matter what, yeah, people, you know, not everybody's going to like you. And that's fine, but it's hard, You know? It's hard because I'm a people pleaser. So I'm like, oh, I want everyone to like me, but please just love me. This is my weakness, Yeah. Oh. Man, gosh, I could talk to you all. Day because. I because you're a bartender, a mixologist, and I'm so interested in that and it's like, yeah, that's that is a random.

Fun. That is a random fun fact. I like that. I do I I. Recently. With my alcohol consumption, I just, I'm pickier now. Now we'll just count Mexico out because that was, you know, it doesn't count. But like, you know, in my normal life, during the week I don't typically drink. And on the weekends now I don't want to drink light beer anymore. I'm like kind of over that. I want to drink a good cocktail. If I'm going to drink something, it's going to be a really good cocktail that I enjoy or a really good beer. Wine gives me headaches now, which is sad because I really like wine.

But yeah, so when I saw that you're a mixologist, I was like, oh cool, give me a shopping list. Gorgeous. And my my wife always. Every time I go to because it usually I only work Friday nights. It's just like a fun thing. But I'm working tonight, Tuesday night as well. And it happens to be Fat Tuesday. But it does have to. Be fat Tuesday I did. Too. Yeah, I was like, oh, right, Mardi Gras, but. She's always like, why do you? Like going, you know, what is it you enjoy out of this job? And I was like, well, I love personally, I love like the ritual or craft of making a cocktail.

And we're a very high end artisan distillery, so we're only making craft cocktails out of our stuff. So it takes time. And also I am very personable. I love being around people. So I love being in a place where I can just talk to everyone. And I don't drink. I mean, I do drink on my own, but not when I'm bartending. So it's like I'm actually making money instead of spending money by being at a bar and socializing. Hey, look at that. So it's kind of like the best. Yeah. Win. Win. Yeah. Which? What's the name of the bar? Haberdasher? So it's bad. I've never been.

There no. Where is it? It's in Franklin. Oh, it's in Franklin then. I don't feel as bad, I was thinking. For some reason it was up here somewhere. No, no, it's down in Franklin. And so he is a former student that started this distillery. And I actually went to him to try to partner for a movie release to see if he could make a bourbon for our movie. But he was like, I don't have the inventory. I was like, do you have a tasting room? Like, do you need a bartender? I just kind of made a joke because I used to, I used to teach a class on Zoom about classic cocktails and how to make it.

So he kind of just hired me on a whim. And that's that's fun. Yeah, that's really cool. It is fun. Yeah. I mean offline. We're gonna. I need some recipes perhaps. OK. I'm a gin girl. So. So we we only distill. Gin and bourbon. There you go. So yeah, well, I'm a gin girl. My husband drinks. Bourbon. So there you go. OK, I love I'm a rum. Guy Rum and gin. I love gin too. Yeah, I. Really. And. And I feel like there's more, just more really nice gin cocktails these days. So I need to learn. I need to learn how to make some good ones.

Besides, I love gin and tonic. Well, and that's the thing. So many people say, hey gin, I'm like. That's because you were at a wedding and you had a bad gin and tonic. It tasted, yeah. And. Like crappy tonic and crappy crappy gin. That's not and there's such a variety. Of gin you know, like and I I I'm Tang my. Parents, I say I grew up with Tangaray. I grew up refilling with water and. I did. I mean, yeah, let's. Go all the way there. I was a bad teenager, but yeah, so I Tanqueray. But now, yeah, there's so many more. Like craft and botanical, like all the really.

I'm a very botanical gin, see. I'm more interested in that now. Than I ever used to be. Well, tonight, tonight's the night you got to come have. A drink? Oh yeah. Hey honey, I got to go to. Franklin, right. For a cocktail? It is off there. 48 minute drive, yeah. But don't worry. Man, I have to end end it. I have to ask you the end of the podcast question. OK? On your show, you do what you got to do. Well, I I have to volunteer at. The library at at my kids school today and I when I did the podcast with Todd Oliver, I like was almost late.

Oh really? And I was like, I can't do that because I could just sit here and talk. Just continue talking as you probably know if you've listened. I have listened. I love your show. I'm so. Glad I found it. Oh, I'm so glad you did too. So. First question is what is your favorite running mantra or song? Do you listen to music? I don't, OK? Yeah, so. I like the sound. Of nature. I love birds. So I really love. I love spring and summer running because of the birds. And so I thought about this and I have two quotes, mantras that I live. One quote, one mantra that I live by and neither has anything to do with running.

OK, even better. So the first. One is an Oscar Wilde. Quote You can never be overdressed or over educated and I think that's a great thing, says the man, wearing Amazing. Glasses Tie vest. This is this is my work uniform, but yes. I do. I do like to wear haberdasher. For those who don't know, Sorry, I'm getting off topic. It's OK, but it's an old men's accessory store. Oh, and so like Harry Truman had a haberdashery before he was president and stuff and haberdasher's used to be also fronts for speakeasies. So but people go in to buy their ties and stuff and then they would sneak him back and get a get a drink and her dasher.

But I didn't know what it meant. Yeah, and our our location. Is in a building called the garment factory, which used to make clothes and stuff. So we thought it was a good tie in. So when Brooks hired me, he was like, I just, you just need to look kind of like wear a polo or something. I'm like, we're called the haberdasher. Like I'm going to look, I'm going to I'm going to take it up a notch. So anyway, so you can never be overdressed or over educated. That's Oscar Wilde. And then Dreams aren't dumb is our whatever motto slogan for the film company for Pegasus Pictures.

So dreams aren't dumb is what we live by. Because they. Aren't really when you think about it and people sometimes think that their own. Dreams are dumb because that's. But how sad is that, Right? Aren't dumb. So that's. Cool. So those are the ones I live by. Do you have either of those tattooed? I do. I have dreams aren't dumb. Right here on a pit, flying pig on a. Because our company is Pegasus. Flying Pig Pegasus Pictures. And it's on the back of my jacket too, so oh, that's and it's not. Josephine made me a bracelet. Dreams aren't dumb. Perfect. So that those are the big.

Ones. But, like, when I was in the depths of the marathon, I was not thinking either of those. Yeah, right. It was like my bloody nipple. That's right. That's that's the. Reality of it, right? Whatever. Will get you through, Yeah. One of my mantras recently, you mentioned it earlier, is like running on tired legs, like some of the workouts my coach has given me. Actually, the one the other day I was afraid of, he said, hey, that looks kind of fun. I was like, I was so scared of, like, whether or not I could do it in my mind. I was like, OK, like you're practicing running like fast on tired legs.

And so I that's what I just kept saying to myself. You're just practicing running fast on tired legs. Just knowing that that's, you know, ultimately what I need to get me to my goal of being faster is you got to practice being faster on legs that are are tired. Yeah. So conditions aren't always perfect, right. And that. Too, gosh, I know like. That's why I sometimes, even though I have a treadmill and I can hide inside and do whatever I want. Running outside when it's a little colder or raining, we do sometimes just because you never know. You never know what kind of weather you're going to get.

Yep. You might be. Tired. It might be rainy. You still got to do it? Yeah. Well then, OK, we already talked about. Your next finish lines that are all coming up, coming back-to-back and then perhaps monumental in the fall, yes, definitely the half, but hopefully I have time to. Train for the full Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm like kind of in the same. Boat there, although I don't know, I just want to do more different races too, so I'm like struggling with that. But it's nice to have such a great race in our backyard, right? Right. What else? What other? Races are on your bucket.

List. So I definitely. Want I don't know if I care about the majors. Yeah, I don't know if I do anything like I it. Would be cool if I did. Qualify for Boston. But there are so many cities that I love and so I want to start looking at some of those. Like we we went on vacation with friends to Hilton Head. I had never been there last summer and they it was actually just this past weekend was the Hilton Head Marathon. So I was like, oh, that could be fun. And of course we spent so much time in Barcelona. So like, you know, hitting some of those in cities that we already love, I think would be cool.

That's a good way to look at it, because to your point. You know, I've done, I've done New York and Chicago. Hopefully Boston at some point. I mean, London would be cool. Berlin as a city, like you know, in Tokyo, I'm just like, not. To your. Point like, are there other places I really want to get to in the world that I've been to? A friend of mine, Christy D, who has been on this podcast. I heard it. She just launched a coaching company too by the way. Shout out to this blonde runs, but she is going to Sydney this year. Oh wow. And that may be a major.

It's in contention, right? That's in contention, but she wants to. Run on all 7. Continents. So that's part of that process for her, but I was. Like, you know those are. Like the like, that's a place that I would rank fairly high. I've been, but not, you know, I want to take my daughter's Sydney, so I want to take her to Sydney at some point. And yeah, maybe we'll do that together someday. Yeah. But yeah, there's some. I mean, I lived in both new. York and London, like, so it would be cool. But I don't know that I'd need to hit all six. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know. If I do either. So we'll see. And it's so hard now like it is so well, yeah, you know to. Get in. It's either. You know it's either. You write a big check to like a tour operator that can just get you in the race. Or you wait years perhaps to to get in via the lottery and still pay a lot of money now. Yeah, so man, like the one in Spain that just happened to Sevilla. Marathon. I think that would be cool. Or the half marathon, I don't even care. Whatever. But so I I think there's some that that I need to look at dates and figure out how to make it work well and even just like in in the US.

As well for me, like, I mean, you mentioned Hawaii, That'd be really cool. Oh, absolutely. But I've been to every state in the United. States, but I haven't. Run in every state. I don't know that that's something you know, that I ultimately want to do either. But you know, just looking at places I'd like to go again or go for the first time and doing that around a race I think would be would be cool. I just got to I got to get my husband back on the running train. So I mean Diane, the way I got her on board with everything. Was. I was like, just do zone two.

Who cares? Yeah. We're not doing this for speed. Just like I enjoy it. And when she found out she could run and not feel dead, she was like, oh, I like this. Yeah, right. Who knew? I mean, I just learned that recently. Somewhat recently, too, right? Like with a coach that makes you go slower. You're like, oh, I can just go out and not run as fast as I can. What a novel concept. It's a thing. It's a thing. Well, thank you so much for. Doing thanks for having me so much fun to get to know you. Yeah, I had a blast. Yeah, and I hope I.

Get to see you at Carmel or one. Of the yes, upcoming races. That you're doing. I'll be there. I will for sure be there. Excellent. Hopefully it's good weather. Yeah, Amen to that. So thank you everybody who's. Listened as well. All three people like you always say 3. Thanks, Mom. Yeah. Everybody have a good good day. And and happy running. Yes, and there was no moth.

Ally Brettnacher