Episode 54: Timmy Howard - From Heroin to Ironman

Episodes

May 3

Listener note: This episode includes discussion of childhood abuse, heroin addiction, homelessness, violence, and an overdose death.

Timmy "Hot Dog" Howard went from heroin addiction and sleeping under an Indianapolis overpass to finishing Ironman Lake Placid on camera for the film Inches to Miles.

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About this episode

Timmy Howard grew up in Dayton, Ohio in a home full of drugs, alcohol and abuse, and at 17 learned the man who raised him was not his biological father. He spent years addicted to pills and heroin, in and out of jail, and homeless in Dayton and then Indianapolis, where he lived under a bridge near 38th and Shadeland. Today he is an operations manager at NIFS, works at Athletic Annex, coaches about 120 people for the Indy Mini, photographs races all over Indiana, and is one of three athletes featured in Athletic Brewing's documentary Inches to Miles.

Timmy tells me how a beating over a $50 drug debt led him to detox and a halfway house, and how a hug at a 5:45 a.m. Back on My Feet run changed everything. We talk about November Project, his first marathon at Monumental in 2017, meeting his wife Steph, relapsing with alcohol and a DUI, finding Athletic Brewing, and training for Ironman Lake Placid while working three jobs. Plus, how he became the hot dog guy.

In this episode, we discuss

The Inches to Miles documentary and its premieres in Oceanside and Indianapolis
Growing up in Dayton, Ohio with parents who used and sold drugs
Learning at 17 that his dad was not his biological father
Joining the Army in 2005 and leaving during training
How prescription pills led to heroin
Homelessness, jail time, and a burglary arrest
Being kidnapped and beaten over a $50 drug debt in Indianapolis
Detox, the Progress House, and recovery meetings
How to help someone experiencing homelessness
A hug at Back on My Feet and getting his first fitted pair of running shoes
November Project and running the Monumental Marathon in 2017
Meeting Steph and a first date trail run at Fort Ben
Relapsing with alcohol, a DUI, and finding Athletic Brewing
Earning an Athletic Brewing team spot for Ironman Lake Placid and training while working three jobs
Coaching at NIFS, Ainsley's Angels, and why he's Timmy Hot Dog Howard

Chapters

Intro
Inches to Miles and becoming a race photographer
Growing up in Dayton
The Army
Pills, heroin and jail
Homeless in Indianapolis
Getting out: detox and the halfway house
Back on My Feet
November Project and a first marathon
Meeting Steph
A DUI and finding Athletic Brewing
Training for Ironman Lake Placid
Coaching at NIFS and giving back
Photographing the Indy Mini and Ainsley's Angels
Why hot dog?
Mantra and next finish line

Where to find Timmy

Instagram: @timmy_hotdog_howard

Mentioned in this episode

Races: Ironman Lake Placid, Ironman Oceanside, Indy Mini, CNO Indianapolis Monumental Marathon, Tri Louisville, Eagle Creek Sprint Triathlon, Go Girl Triathlon, Washington Blvd Beer Mile, Leadville
Organizations and charities: Back on My Feet, November Project, Athletic Brewing, National Institute for Fitness and Sport (NIFS), Athletic Annex, Wheeler Mission, Progress House, Ainsley's Angels, Tri Loco, Indiana Trail Running
Other: Inches to Miles (documentary), I'll Have Another podcast

Previous guests mentioned

Related episodes

Frequently asked

What is Inches to Miles?

Inches to Miles is a documentary from Athletic Brewing that follows three athletes, including Timmy Howard of Indianapolis, as they train for and race Ironman Lake Placid; it was released on YouTube on June 4.

Who is Timmy Hot Dog Howard?

Timmy Howard, known as Timmy Hot Dog Howard, is an Indianapolis race photographer, run coach and operations manager at NIFS who overcame heroin addiction and homelessness and went on to finish Ironman Lake Placid.

How did Back on My Feet help Timmy Howard?

Timmy Howard found Back on My Feet, a group that combats homelessness through running, while living in a halfway house; a hug at his first 5:45 a.m. run made him feel accepted and started his running life.

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Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically, so it may contain errors.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones with Ali Bretnacher. Incredible stories and tales of triumphs with everyday people achieving their goals and fitness. This podcast brought to you by Athlete Bouquets. Celebrate finish lines and milestones of the people that you love by visiting athletebouquets.com. Hello and welcome to episode 54. This is Ali Brettnacher, and if you're listening to this episode, the day it comes out, the Indianapolis Mini Marathon is tomorrow. It'll be my 16th or 17th indie mini. I recently went through all my previous medals and found 2011's medal, which I thought was a year that I did not run according to my spreadsheet and according to the online race results.

So somewhat of a mystery there, but we're going to call it 16th just to be conservative. But I'm really looking forward to a unique opportunity this year to push for an organization called Ainsley's Angels. So I will be pushing a young woman named Hope along with my friend Ashley Schwab, and we will be giving her an experience of crossing 1/2 marathon finish line, which is something that I love so much. So I'm really looking forward to this, this experience. I'm also super grateful to have the opportunity to get a hotel room downtown. I'm staying at the Bottleworks again, which I did last year and really loved.

So I can't wait to be by myself and with Ashley, get some pizza and beer at the garage the night before, kind of do my thing. I will probably bring my toaster again so that I can have toast in the morning. But yeah, I can't wait, what a special couple days this is going to be. So I also am excited to see Lindsay Hine at the Expo. So whether or not you're local or listening to this before 3:00 PM on Friday, I'm going to see Lindsay Hines speak at the Expo. She will be in town. So really excited about that. If you don't know who Lindsay is, she has a running podcast called I'll Have Another.

It's been around for years and years. She is a pro. She interviews the pros. It's awesome. So I'm excited to see her and hopefully meet some people I've never met. Jamaica Edwards, a previous podcast guest being one of those. She lives out in DC and we've actually never met in person. So, Jamika, I hope I get to hug you this weekend. And I'm also going to be looking on the sidelines for this week's guest, Timmy Hot dog Howard. So, Timmy, you can find him on Instagram at Timmy under score Hot dog under score. Howard and I originally kind of just met Timmy in passing. Didn't really know him, Know him and got to know him through interviewing him on this this episode.

But just when I'm hurting at all tomorrow I will be thinking of Timmy and how hard his life has been and how much he's had to overcome to be where he is today. But I will be looking for Timmy. He will be dressed as Ricky Bobby, so keep your eyes peeled for him. He will snap a photo of you. He'll be out there doing race photography, but I am so honored to have an opportunity to tell Timmy's story, or at least some of it, during this episode. He is actually part of a film that will be public on June 4th on YouTube called Inches to Miles and it's featuring 3 endurance athletes who did the Iron Man, Lake Placid and Timmy is one of those individuals.

So he comes from being addicted to heroin, being homeless, and managed to really claw his way back to not just sobriety, but an incredible life here in Indianapolis. So I'm really, really excited to introduce you to Timmy. And please make sure that come June, you watch this incredible film. Hello, Timmy. Hello, how are you? Good. How are you? Good. I feel like a more legitimate podcaster today because you are here promoting a film. It's My wife keeps calling me a movie star to mock me and it. Yeah, it's. Great. I like that. Steph, we're going to go ahead and mention her right away. Oh yeah, because another podcast I listened to, it took you 30 minutes to mention Steph.

Yeah, I got yelled at for that one. You did. You should have. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's she's a ginger, so she's feisty, so. I have a ginger. My older daughter is a ginger. They don't mess with them. Just don't mess with. Her. She scares me already. She's only 6 1/2. How long have you and Steph been married? We've been married, coming up on three years. OK, awesome. So been together 76, My timelines are all messed up, six or seven. Nice. So are you. When is the premiere? The premiere is May 22nd. We're having a premiere here. Here in Indy. Here in Indy and then May 29th is the second one because the first one sold out.

So we're doing a second one as a fundraiser for Back on My Feet, and then it's available everywhere June 4th on YouTube. So freaking cool. And for anyone who doesn't already know, it's called Inches to Miles. And it's in partnership with Athletic Brewing, which will get into the whole story behind it. We'll talk all about the race, but I just wanted to give you a hard time right up front for being a film star. Yeah, yeah, it does. But I'm like, oh, we're promoting a film. How cool. And then did it release already in Oceanside? Because isn't that the first one? Yeah, So they flew us all out to Oceanside.

We did the movie premiere out there, which was super cool because they had the Iron Man Oceanside as the kickoff Iron Man for the for the. Year. So they coincided that with the race, so we got a lot of our team to come to that showing, as well as just the local community. So it was really neat. I met a lot of people who were in recovery or doing different things, just came out to see the film. It was really cool. Wow. That's really, really cool. Yeah. So congratulations. Thank you. And that was what kind of tipped me over the edge into reaching out to you and being like, Timmy.

You got to come on the podcast. Absolutely. I've certainly seen you like, from afar or when you're on a bike with a with a camera. And then my friend Ashley Haynes, who was on this podcast, she was episode 38. I looked it up before this so I could specifically shout her out. Top of your head, that. Would do not. I have a horrible memory. So she was episode 38. I know you guys are friends. How did you meet Ashley? Taking her photo. That's so great, that doesn't sound weird at all. No, it's another one of those things. So I think I just met her just randomly through the races.

She just kept popping up at like every single race that I was at and I think that's how we met. If if I'm wrong, Ashley, I apologize, but I think that's how how we met. And how did you start doing race photography? So my wife was race directing OPS at 5050 which is a 50K and A50 Miller for Indiana trail running. And I've never even heard of that. What does OPS stand for? So on Putnam State Forest. OK, where is that? It is to the West, just a little bit WS area, but she was race directing that and she knew that I had just gotten in photography and was loving it.

So I started there and then it's just kind of grown over the years. People will see the photography, I'll share it, this race director will reach out and ask so on and so forth, and it's just grown. So it's been really fun. Almost all my weekends are booked up now, but I just absolutely love it. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I was telling you before we were recording that I used to be really into photography, Like in high school. I took it I think every year we had. I went to Westfield High School here and they we had a pretty nice photography program and so I did darkroom photography, which is even cooler.

And then in my 20s when I lived in broader pool, the I forgot what's called in broader pool, the art place there, whatever. So bad. They had a photography, a darkroom photography class. And so I did that, and I've taken some random stuff, but I just, I don't know, I kind of fell out of it once. The smartphone, like just the cameras are good. It's so different, I understand, but I just never quite stuck with it. Which it's much easier just to have your phone on your hand taking photos than it is to lug around those giant pieces of equipment and then learn all the settings and stuff like that.

Still, so I still maybe at some point, I I mean, I just have too many hobbies already. So I got to I got to ring. Them in, Yeah. So, well, yeah. So thank you so much for doing this today. I can't believe how much there is to your background and story. It's truly incredible. And I can see why you ended up on a film. Yeah. It's been a wild ride, a. Wild ride like some of this. I don't even know how to even start start. So I feel like we should just start at the beginning perhaps and kind of walk us through a little bit about your upbringing and what led you to kind of the background that you've had that most people probably, I mean, they do know about, perhaps because you're so open with sharing your story.

But just like looking at you wouldn't wouldn't think that that's kind of what you've come from. Definitely. So my upbringing was, it was turmoil. Mom and my dad were just into a lot of drugs and alcohol, so there was always just a lot going on. We talk about a lot in the film. This is kind of the whole premise around my story in the film, but I was always treated differently, a lot differently like I was the one who would be beaten or punished or whatever. Did you? Have siblings growing up. I did. OK, so I had one brother. Still do have a brother. I always say had one like he's gone or something.

I say it in the film too, like it sounds like he's dead. He's not dead. Nathan's alive. If you're listening, Nathan, you're OK. But but yeah, so I had a brother and is. He older or younger? He's younger. He's about six years younger. But I noticed I always got treated different. And I I remember like as a kid, just screaming at them like I'm adopted and just like yelling that. And I was like, that's just kind of a weird thing to yell. But it was one of those things that I just remember vividly. So there's tons of abuse, yelling again, life was just turmoil. They ended up, my parents ended up splitting, getting divorced.

When I was, I believe, 11. I would bounce around. Sometimes I would go stay with Mom. Sometimes I would go stay with Dad. It was just crazy, crazy, hectic. And where where was this? This is all back in Dayton, OH. Ohio OK, Yeah. So by the time I was about 17, my mom had met another woman they were dating. They were both involved in Alcoholics Anonymous at that time, 'cause my mom had stopped drinking, but she was doing pills and everything else. She would claim she was sober, but she was doing, you know, opiates pill form. But anyways, so one day I think I was 17 right before I graduated.

I want to say my mom calls me back into the bedroom and she's like, hey, sit down. I just want to tell you something. She's like, your dad's not your real dad. And then she proceeds to. It was very blunt. It wasn't like a sugar coated like. Like you would picture a mom sitting her kid. Yeah, no, it wasn't. It was just so blunt. And she was just. Your mom is or your dad isn't your real dad. I don't know who your dad is. I was really messed up one night had sex with two random guys, and I don't know who either of them are.

So one of them is your father, but I don't know who. And I was like, OK, so right then a light switch just like, clicked and that sent me into an absolute whirlwind. So it was like everything from growing up. All of a sudden, it all kind of made sense. And I was like, OK, This is why I'm treated differently. Because your brother, your brother was biologically who you thought your dad was, correct? Yeah, And it was just, I mean, it sent me for an absolute whirlwind. That's when I started drinking really heavy, just partying nonstop. And then, yeah, I mean, the story continues much more.

I can keep going. Yeah, well, I was going to ask you about, So during your childhood, did you have consistent schooling? Like, were you always in school, at least as you said before you graduated? So for sure. So you know, it seems like, wow, by some miracle you were able to graduate from high school, which? Is I had. I had consistent schooling. I barely graduated. I mean, barely, barely. Probably about. I remember my first suspension was in fifth grade. I remember I took those little Pop Rocks you get for 4th of July. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. And I threw them in the hallway. I got suspended for like 5 days.

I was, I was a troublemaker. I would always lash out. I think I wasn't getting the attention at home that I wanted, so I would lash out. So when I got into middle school, I really just started skipping school a lot. I would, I lived really close. I'd hop the fence, just go home two to three days a week. I would do that and nobody would ever say anything because both the parents work. So I just went to the house and I did that pretty much all the way up through high school. I found out if you get in trouble skipping school, they will suspend you out of school suspension, and that was kind of my loophole.

I kept getting in trouble and getting suspended and being not at school was what I wanted, right? Eventually they got smart and did me in school. Suspension, right, I was going to say. That sucked, so I stopped doing it, Yeah. There you go. You got to find the right punishment. Goodness, yeah. But yeah, so I I mean, I ended up graduating. It was close, though. I think I had to do summer school because I had failed government, which I still don't understand government to this day, so I don't know if anybody. Does, Yeah. I was going to say. Does anyone? No. So were your parents, like, growing up, did they, like, try to harp on your schooling?

Did they, you know, try to help help you in that way at all? Or was it just all no kind of on your own? It was it was very hands off and we we we don't really make it into the film and but like I don't want to sit here and bash them completely. Like I think I think that they did the best they could at the point they were at in their life with what they thought. For me it just didn't work out too well right. So it was kind of just a free for all. It was even when I I think by the time I was 16 or 17, my dad had met my now stepmom and they were sharing houses so they would stay in one house for three nights, stay in the other house for three nights.

So I would be home alone for three nights, two or three nights and a 16 year old with a house to himself. I was throwing parties all the time, school nights. It didn't matter just because I wanted to be accepted and I wanted people to like. Me. Of course, yeah. People would totally want to be your friend and come over to your house with no parents. Let's do it. So yeah, so that's what we were doing all the time. It was just it was all pretty hands off. Well, it's, I mean, it's a miracle. Well, we'll get into more of it. It's like a miracle you're alive from what comes like after even this.

But like even just the high school stuff. I was a party kid in high school, too. I'm my my dad will tell me he. I'm lucky that I got into the college I went to. I went to Miami, Ohio. So actually I looked at Dayton, but over there many times and so I did. I just really was was not the best high school child in Oxford's. Even a party school. Oh. Yeah, And that's, yeah, that's a whole nother thing. It's like a miracle that I was able to to, you know, get good grades and somehow. But yeah, so I can appreciate like the idea of a six year old kid being able to do whatever he wants, like have the house to himself.

Yeah. So for you, I would assume that then college wasn't even on your radar at all just because of. No, I had attempted college. It wasn't my jam. Just wasn't my speed at all. So yeah, no, just was not my thing. So after high school or like when you become eighteen, are you then out of the house on your own or what? I had already pretty much been out on my own. I had been kind of just couch surfing with friends, just staying wherever, and really I was just drinking every night. We were going out partying every night, drinking every night. I ended up joining.

I tried to join the Air Force. It took forever to try to get in. It was like a nine month waiting period. I had just lost my best friend in a car accident, like it was a very turmoil time in my life and I wanted to leave like immediately. So I ended up joining the army, join the army and then shipped out to basic training and I was in there for a while until that didn't go quite quite so well. So it was just I think I just didn't know what I wanted to do. Right. And where did you ship out for basic training? For Jackson, SC, South Carolina, OK.

And So what? When or how did you end up leaving then? So basically this was 2005. I want to say this was back right around because I remember Katrina, Hurricane Katrina hit when I was in BASIC. I made it all the way through BASIC, made it almost all the way through AIT. I think what really messed me up was I got a two week leave for I think it was Christmas or something like that and I got to spend time with my friends and I I realized like my friends were my people and it was really hard to separate that and go back. But I did go back and then when I got back I was just so depressed.

I was moping around. I didn't want to do anything. I just realized holy crap, what did I get myself into? So I think I just joined on such a desperation. Basically found a loophole where if you were, if you haven't graduated training and you end up leaving, going AWOL is what they call. It's absent without leave. If you go AWOL, if you just leave, then they'll just kick you out of the military like you've never been. It's you don't qualify for benefits. It's just like you've never been in the military. OK. Yep. Yeah. So that's what I ended up doing. I was in for probably about a year and a half.

OK. And so all this time, I would assume you were still drinking, yeah. Yeah, when we could. I mean, training, they were pretty strict with it. You know, if we got any sort of leave or anything we would, but training was pretty much locked down pretty tight. Well, it'd probably be really hard to do this training if you were drinking a lot. Definitely, yeah. So at what point? So after this, after you're, you know, essentially kicked out, you are home drinking. Where at what point in your story does it evolve to more than alcohol? Yeah. So I came back from the army. I went and stayed with my mom and then the lady that she was dating.

That was a very rocky situation because they were both constantly fighting each other, like physically fist fighting. So that was just kind of nuts. So I was living with them. I was drinking. They didn't drink because they were both. They met in a A. They were sober from that, but they were using pills a lot. So they basically gave me Vicodin. That's when I started taking pain pills. So they started giving me Vicodin, The other lady she had been prescribed. And this is like a year down the road as I'm living with them. But she had been prescribed morphine percocets basically. That was back in the day when you could actually go doctor shopping.

You could literally just go to a doctor and say, hey, I've got this going on and they would prescribe you 180 of whatever you wanted. So we had four or five different doctors prescriptions coming in and we just started like eating them like candy. Eventually that wasn't enough. And then that's when I was introduced to the heroin. So. So yeah, so Mom and Marsha, that's when the heroin started. So we I was introduced to the heroin with them. And then we started using it every day and it wasn't long. I think maybe we snorted it for three months until we went to the needle and it was just absolute hell.

Because it's amazing how quickly it snowballs. Like when I was on the pain pills, I was somewhat functioning. I mean, my life was spiraling pretty bad. I would try to keep a job, but I would be sick. And it was manageable, but not quite. But then once I hit the heroin, it was game over. That was all I wanted. That was all I needed. It even got to the point where I know this is a little graphic, but my mom and Marsha couldn't shoot themselves up, so I would have to do that for them. So I would basically skimp what I was giving them so that I could have more.

I mean, it was just a nasty, nasty time. And yeah, so we went and did that for just a multiple of years. I was in and out of jail for theft because we would go and steal. This is back when like Blu-ray DVDs were coming out. We would basically steal those and then pot them off. So yeah, it was just a lot of that in and out of jail and yeah. God. Wild, wild, Wild. Well, and would you consider your mom? Does she still have her partner to to this day? No, she she actually overdosed, so she is no longer here so and that's a whole another can in there too.

So she, I believe she has a girlfriend now. OK, a new one, but yeah. OK. And what was that like? Like when she introduced her, you know, How did you? I think back then it was a little weird, 'cause I'm like. Well, I feel like the timing of it. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it was just, it was odd. I mean, I'm 1617, like still trying to figure out life. And I'm like, OK, well, you and Dad split up and now you're with this woman and, you know, it's it was just, it was a very turmoil time, 'cause they would always preach at me like, oh, you're drinking a lot, you're an alcoholic.

And then I would just sit there and watch them pop pills and I'm like, well, how's this kind of the pot calling the kettle black? But yeah, so I think I was just very confused at that time. Now at the age I'm at now, I'm like, I don't care. Do what you want to do. So like, given the time, I don't know, you know? It was tough then, and it's it wasn't as as mainstream as it is now. Like, you didn't hear about it. Like you hear about it now. It wasn't like, you know, you wouldn't see it on TV or something like that back then.

I mean, that was very taboo back in the day. Well, I think for a kid like you who's you know already just trying to trying to cope and fit in like adding that into it. I mean just as you know in that in that day like you said, it just was more taboo. It's not as common and accepted really. I mean you went through so much like I can't even I don't even know. I mean I just don't. I've never seen, I don't even know if I've ever seen cocaine like. And I know what Miami, Ohio is everywhere. I never was offered it ever, which is a miracle.

It was a constant occurrence in our house. They dealt it, they sold it out of the house. So, I mean, it was, it was nothing to see giant, like a giant bag just sitting on top of our. Like, I I had a friend come over and he was an older friend and stole an entire bag of cocaine off of the refrigerator. And then, like, I wondered why my dad was so pissed. I didn't know what it was at the time like. But I remember there was times walking in, like my mother was drunk and passed out in her own vomit and I'm like trying to wake her up and she wasn't waking up.

I mean, there's just things like that that I just remember very vividly. Yeah. God. So it was definitely it was it was a rough upbringing and like I said it I I don't want to paint this picture that there bad people 'cause now I've rekindled all these relationships. Like. It's I think just at the time they just were messed up, just like I had my long string of messed up years. Right. So so does your mom still live in Dayton? She does. She lives a little closer to Cincinnati now. My dad is still in the same home. And when you say your dad, it was your dad growing up.

It was, yeah. And it was. It took me a little, a little while to realize, like, I mean, I still call him Dad because he's still my dad. He raised me. I mean, it was just because he's not biological doesn't really mean anything. He was at least there in in some capacity and very much so in later in life once I've gotten sober. So yeah, he's definitely still Dad. Wow, that's incredible that you have relationships with your mom and dad after what you went through with your upbringing. Yeah, it's. I mean it's really good now. It was don't get me wrong it was Rocky. Dad and them had completely cut me off because of all of my drug use and just years in and out of jail, you know, stealing money, doing things like that.

Mom, it was just a whole another beast with her and then her her girlfriend at the time, Marcia, Marcia and I hated each other. It was. It was one of those things because they would get into physical altercations. I would basically be pissed, separate the two if the cops would come out. Somebody has to go to jail because if it's a domestic violence situation, at least in Ohio, somebody has to go to jail. Marsha and my mom would have marks all over their face. I would have nothing. Marsha would tell the cops that I was the one who did it. And then mom was too far.

Mom's really codependent. So she, like, has to have somebody to take care of. And she didn't want to like, see Marsha go to jail so she wouldn't stand up for me. And there was three separate occurrences where that happened. And my mom and I just recently had a conversation about that, like how upset I was at the time, because it's like. Like, that's on my record, that I'm like beating a woman, which I am. Not I had never laid a single hand on it and it was just like, you know, but I mean at the end of the day, what can you do? Again, these were all when I was 18 and stuff because that was the the one of the domestic violences was the first time I ever went to jail.

Like I had no clue what was going on when I walked in those doors. So yeah, it was just it was a wild ride. Yeah, So at what stage were you without a home? Pretty much from 20. My timeline's a little jacks. Well, as it should be, I mean, I can't imagine. I I've read a lot of stuff on trauma and things like that, and it's like trying to piece it all together. Sometimes it doesn't make a lot of sense, but I'll do my best it. It was around the age of 23 was when I started really. It was 22 to 23 was when I started really being homeless.

I was staying down in the homeless shelter in Dayton. I was panhandling. I would go to places like businesses and steal stuff. So it it kind of all started then and then basically I was homeless in Dayton for about 3 years. And what finally kind of pushed it all away was I was, I was at the homeless shelter. And then there's a few guys that were standing there. They said, hey, we want to go do this thing. I know your mom has a car. Well, she let's use it. So I talked to my mom. My mom said if I basically got her some drugs, she would let me use the car.

I used the car and was the driver for a burglary. Not a good thing. Not what you want to do. So she we went and did it. Thank God, thank God it was a residence. And thank God no one was home. And there there's a lot of things that I did back then that I just like. I I can't even look at myself now and think, like, how the hell did I do that? Thank God no one was home anyways, We did all that. My mom got pulled over. She had heroin in the car and she basically said, hey, I know about this burglary. I know where my son's at.

You know, if you guys kind of let me go, we'll make sure we get this, you know, show you where he's at. So I ended up getting arrested for that burglary. And that's when my kind of long stints of either locked up rehabs or jails. I mean, that's kind of when that all started. So it was, yeah, I ended up I was in a six month lockdown, rehab, got out of it and then immediately went back to using. I never had any structure or any like any reason to stop. Really. It was it was so easy to use. I say that with a grain of salt, like it was not easy to go out and look for money and from the moment you open your eyes till you go to bed, that's what you're looking for.

But there was no responsibilities. There was no nothing. It was just, hey, don't be sick, just get your drugs. Where do you even get drugs? I don't even know how. If I today would go try to find her, I have no idea even how to do that. And it's it's funny because my wife now Steph, it it she like, I see a lot of things that she doesn't see and she's like how like. Oh, because you. Yeah, if you're like just sure about, you know, what's going on in situations. It's it's things like like we used to, you would go up to gas stations in different parts of neighborhoods and you would just look for people and they would basically, if you were looking like a junkie in that part, they knew what you were doing, they knew what you were looking for.

So they come up to your car and say, hey, I got this, this, this, and then you just meet them and Yep. Yeah, wow. So it's a wild ride. Hopefully people are still listening and don't think I'm a complete piece of garbage. Because, well, I don't. Well, like, you just posted something the other day on, I saw it on Facebook or Instagram about how you're like, yeah, seven years ago this was my home. It's like under an overpass. And I I didn't know that about you. I had just. I've met you briefly as Ashley's friend who takes pictures at races. I just assume you're this normal dude who's into photography that, you know, that's whatever.

That's what a lot of people think. I mean, which is really cool, Which is? Yeah, it says a lot about. That I've changed my life. There is also so much to me that a lot of people don't know. And that's that's where it's really cool to be able to tell these things and share it. Because yeah, I mean, it's just a wild life that most people wouldn't know about. Well, it just says like, no matter how dark you think or how hard you think life is, you can get out of it. Absolutely. When it doesn't, when it feels like you can't. Yeah. Yeah. How did you?

I mean, I know there's a lot we're skipping over, but I think for the sake of of time, how did you get out? How did you get out? So I was here in Indy, obviously, there was a lot of stuff that happened to get me to Indy. I was homeless and living at Pendleton Pike and 465 S right there. 30th and Shade Land area, which is where I stayed for three years. Not a good area. It was. It was a rough patch of my life. Basically. I owed a drug dealer some money. I owe them 50 bucks. They kidnapped me. They beat me up really bad 50.

Dollars. I mean, in that world, it's just, it's all about it's respect. It's it's one of those things, it just goes back to the prison lifestyle. It's all respect. So yeah, I owed them 50 bucks. They kidnapped me. They beat the living hell out of me and then basically just threw me on the side of the road. I I wasn't quite sure I was done. And I think I used for like another two days. And then I just realized I had enough. Again. I found, just like with the army, I found another loophole. Because you can't just so say if I'm a heroin addict right now, I can't just go to a hospital and say, hey guys, look, I want to get off this, Help me.

There's nothing they're going to do. You have to have insurance. You have to have all these things. And what the hell, at least if this was at the time when I was going to try to get sober, what the hell person who's on heroin is going to have insurance? It's not going to happen because I'm not going to have a job. I'm not going to do anything. So I basically found this loophole where if you go into the hospital at 86th St. I think it's Saint Vincent or Saint Francis. I don't know. But basically, if you tell them that you're suicidal and that you're a heroin addict, they will hold you and administer detox for you because it's very hard to get off heroin.

It's not. It's not something you can really kick on your own. It's like the worst sickness of your life. It's in your bones. You you literally hurt in your bones. You can't sleep right for six months. It just messes with your entire system. And you know, the one thing that'll make it better is another shot. So I went in there. They detoxed me and I got out and immediately went into a halfway house called the Progress House here in Indy. And that was kind of the the start of it. I I had no clue if I was actually going to be able to keep it up.

I knew that I was finally at a point where I'm like, OK, like I'm done, like this is I'm done living this way. But I had no idea what to do, no idea how to live. Did when you were getting beat up by the guys that took you, did you feel like they were going to kill you? Or did they? Yeah, yeah, 'cause I feel like. Oh, yeah, They all had guns. Like, I thought for sure I was just like, Oh yeah, this is this is it. I mean, and eventually you just get to the point where like, it's kind of weird you're you're not scared anymore.

You're just like, OK, this is it. This is what it is. And then I think the aftermath and like, looking back through it and then just kind of processing everything and I was just, I mean, I was, I was sick. I was probably 130 lbs. I'm 185 now per perspective. So I mean, I was skin and bones. I had blisters all over my feet to where I couldn't even walk when I got to the hospital because I had shoes on that weren't the right size. My feet were soaked constantly from sleeping outside all day, every day. So I mean, I was just a mess by the time I got in.

When you were homeless, who did you? Do you have friends? Are there people that you like would kind of share that underpass with like how does that? You kind of, you kind of just connect with other people that you see out there. It's like, hey, OK, there's you and me, like, hey, let's team up, Let's try to raise money together to get drugs. The only thing that's tough about that is everybody's shady. You can't trust anybody. And it was just one of those things. And what's really wild is literally every single person. I've said this on a few things, but every single person that I associated with is dead.

There's not a single one of them alive today, because that's how serious this stuff is. It's you either get sober at the right moment or you die. There's no in between with that. Stuff or somehow you end up in jail for the rest of your. Life for sure, Yes, yes, yes. In which you can still use it in jail too. Oh, geez. Yeah. Wild, Yeah. So about panhandling, how does that work for you today? Like when you see somebody on a street corner with a sign like, I don't, and so many people will say, Oh yeah, those people actually aren't really looking for actual money for their kid, they're just trying to get drugs.

Is that the reality of the situation? From my experience, yes, I would say a good majority of them. It's, it's what we do. It's it's it's an easy way to get money. People give money. I mean, it's not easy stand there holding a sign. Like I had stuff thrown on me. I had people cuss me out. People want to fight me like, I mean, you see everything when you're out there, but it it's most of them have something going on in that nature, whereas it's the fastest way you can score cash, and cash is keying, cash is how you get drugs. So yeah. So if today for somebody to actually help somebody like that, right.

I think I've heard you say before, like, I don't know, getting a blanket or something like that like would save your life potentially because of the winters here in the Midwest. Like what should people give instead? That's that's kind of the thing like a little care pack. I used to get those from time to time and they're great. They have like hand warmers in them or bottles of water. Because you wouldn't even think of how long people would go without water if you're out there because businesses don't want you to walk in. So a bottle of water, a toothbrush, just simple things, maybe a little travel size shower things.

Definitely a blanket is a big thing. And then if you really want to help him out, get him like a $5 or $10, like Subway gift card or McDonald's gift card. Something where they're not going to spend it on something else, if that makes sense. Cash is never a good idea because it's probably going straight to whatever they want to use for. The most part when you were homeless, were you hungry too, like? No, is it the the drugs just mask that I was using. I was using heroin and cocaine at the same time. So your body one's an upper, one's a downer. My body never knew what the hell was going on.

Yeah, no, I just. I wouldn't eat. If I did eat, it was out of a dumpster. You would just find places like speedways would throw away all their old sandwiches, or like Dunkin' Donuts would throw out bags of day old Donuts. So you would just go in, dig in the trash until you found somebody to eat? Yeah. So you made it to this halfway house? Yeah. How long were you there? So the halfway house, I was there for about 6 months and that was when I was really kind of starting to establish my my super idea of what it is today. I was trying to figure things out.

I started going to a lot of a a meetings HANA Heroin Anonymous and then Narcotics Anonymous. I started doing just meeting after meeting after meeting and trying to figure out what it is I wanted. They had a little gym there on site so I started lifting. I had always played sports growing up, so I was a very like athletic kid. And then so when I got into that I was like, OK, this makes me feel good, like I can. I'm putting on weights. I'm starting to look normal again. My face isn't so gone. So I would start lifting and then one day there was a a little flyer in there for Back on my Feet.

And Back on My Feet is an organization that they combat homelessness through running. So I really had no idea what it was. And I was not a runner. I think I was still smoking like 2 packs of cigarettes a day. And I was like, yeah, we'll try it. I don't know because I had like tried to start this fitness journey. I'm like no idea what I'm doing. So I went down to Wheeler Mission, which is the homeless shelter here in Indianapolis. And I just showed up one morning. It was at, I think it was 5:45 in the morning. They said show up and get ready to go for a run.

So I showed up and that was the first time when I when I got there that day, I remember just, I got a hug. It was just somebody gave up and gave me a gave me a hug. And for whatever weird reason, like at that moment, that was what I needed. And the rest was kind of history. Like, I was just like, OK, this is I'm accepted. They don't even know me and I'm accepted. They're not saying, hey, what did you do? Why are you, you know, 30 years old, with no car, no house, no nothing. They were just like, hey, you're here for the same reason we're here, to better ourselves and to run.

And then that's kind of just where it was. So I started running with them three to four days a week, getting to know them. And I think a lot of them were kind of attracted to my personality. I was a little fast back then, not now. And it was one of those things where it was just like there was two or three people that I just really gravitated towards and I saw what they had in their laughter and things like that. And I knew I wanted that. So I just started training with them all the time and then just trying to learn from them, ask them questions.

And it was, it was really cool. I mean it was such a neat organization which ultimately led me to another organization that I'm with called November Projects. And I will say like back on my feet I found a lot of very close friends that I'm so close with today and they definitely helped save my life. November Project was a very close offshoot of that and November projects where most of my family is now, it's very, very close ties with that group and I actually met them through a Co function that they did. It was basically a 5K run that November project teamed up with Back on My Feet.

Yeah, so I met the Met. The leaders of November project started showing up there. I was going to November project. I was going to back on my feet and it was good. I kept myself busy at a time that I needed to be busy because I didn't know what else to do with my time. Yeah. So for Back on My feet, it still exists and you have to be, they have to know you're sober right, Showing up. And so like are there other than that, are there other stipulations you just like you said you show up and you're accepted and? I believe you just show up and you're accepted.

I think now they they have like an orientation and maybe they had one back then there's like an orientation just kind of give you a heads up of what's going on. The really cool thing is they is they celebrate milestones. Everything was a major accomplishment to me when I first started. I was like that guy who was taking selfies every single day. And I was like constantly, like bragging like, hey, look at me, look how awesome I'm doing. In the heroin world, it's called the pink cloud. So your brain is just flooded with all the chemicals that you've been depriving it of for so long.

So when you get sober, your brain gets flooded and you're just all happy, Go lucky all the time. So I was just constantly flooding everyone's. I think the five people that still followed me, I was like constantly flooding their feet. But it's really neat because they congratulate you on running 5 miles, they congratulate you on running 25 and then so on and so forth. And they just help basically build you up and you get things like T-shirts or hats. They gave me my first pair. Of I was gonna say, Did you show up? What did you show up wearing? I didn't just a a white T-shirts and just probably some basketball shorts that were like, down past my knees.

Yeah. And then did you have like gym shoes that were like? Yeah, they were not. They were not adequate shoes. And after you're with them for I think like three weeks or a month, they actually take you. And it it may be different now. This is a while ago, but they actually take you and they just give you your first pair of shoes, which is awesome. Like, there was nothing better than going in that running store and having somebody actually like, fit me again. I just felt like a person. I felt like this is what normal people do, like this is so cool and walking out of that store with your first pair of shoes was just incredible.

So yeah, it was just, I really hit the ground running at that point. I imagine too, after all those years of going in retail stores to steal stuff. Like, it had to be so different going into a store and like, like, oh, I'm actually going to someone's going to buy me something or just walk out and I don't have to like look over my shoulder, feel like. There's there's still a lot of things to this day that I do that I'm like it's it's little things like that that I'm so thankful for. I never have to look over my shoulder when I'm exiting somewhere or worry if this person's going to tackle me.

It's just like I have the means now to be able to function and thrive as a normal adult. Yeah, yeah. Things that everyday person would have just no thought or. For sure, yeah. So tell us a little bit more about the November project. Yeah. So November Project is a free fitness group. They meet downtown Monday or excuse me, Wednesdays and Fridays at 6:00 AM in the morning. So on Wednesdays it's always at the War Memorial. On Fridays. It kind of flops around the city to different places. So I started going there and there was 2 leaders, Casey and Jason, Casey Seaton and Jason Shaw. And their energy was just absolutely infectious.

And I was like man. And it was like again like looking up to people like I didn't know how to live. So I'm trying to like look at at like kind of how a child does. Yeah, you're like, what am I supposed to do? Yeah. I was learning everything at that point, so I'm just soaking up everybody what they do, how they talk, what they, you know, what they look like that I saw those two guys energies and I was like, yes, like this matches like what I want to be what I am. So I started attending and going with them a lot. I was still training with back on my feet, so I decided at that point that I wanted to do a marathon.

Most normal people run a 5K or something first. Now of course I the addict in me was like, hey, let's make it hurt. So I was training for monumental marathon. I ended up doing monumental marathon and then November project held a after party at Sun King and I had showed up and like, I nobody at that point had known my story and everybody was drinking and I was like, no, I'm cool. Like I'm not gonna have anything. And then it it basically came out to where I started telling one of the people, Oh yeah, this is my story. Like, no one had known my story.

I didn't. I was very. Well, you show up and work out. I usually people at the beginning are like, oh hey, hello, how you doing? And I didn't. I didn't want to tell anybody because I didn't want anybody to reject me and not like me like I I I just didn't want to feel that way. Or be afraid of you, I feel like, yeah, I mean, yeah, absolutely. You went through some? And so I was explaining that to them. And then one of the leaders reached out and he's like, dude, that story's absolutely nuts. Would you mind writing A blog for us? So that was the first time I'd ever shared my story was I wrote a blog for them.

And what year was this that you did the monumental? This was 20/17/2017. Yep. So that was my Yep. First marathon was 2017. Wow. So. And then it was the the rest. I mean, it was just, it things just kept evolving. Like, I think I had shared my story and then other people reached out and were like, hey, I know this person deals with it or I I've dealt with it or maybe not to the extreme of heroin, but alcohol, cocaine, whatever. And it was like, OK, like, I'm, I'm different, but I'm not that different. Like, it affects everybody in some way, right? And it was just, it was really nice that I think for the first time in my life I had like a family that was just complete.

It was people genuinely cared about me for who I was or like who I was at that moment and not who I was. Yeah, which was really neat. Yeah. And where did Steph come along? When? When did you meet her? She I met her at November project. Actually, Strava's doctor is the correct term, so watch out, Strava. No, she again. It was, it was one of those things I was still learning. And I noticed, like, I was like, oh man, she's really fast. I'm like, this is super cool. Like, maybe we can hang out sometime. We went to a breakfast. We ended up hitting it off.

One thing led to another. I remember the first date we ever did was a trail run. And she's like, all right, let's go over Fort Bend, like, what do you run? And I was, like trying to act all cool. And I was like, I run like eight, 30s, you know, like, 'cause I looked at her runs, smoke me. I she's like, OK, I got you. So we go running. And she just absolutely destroys me. I'm like dying on the side of the trails. Well, and she's probably wants to talk, right? Like they were a chat, you know, and you're like. I was gasping for breath.

Yeah, yeah. So that's how we met. And then we both just had this massive love for running and community, and we've been here ever since. So when you guys went to breakfast and then when you had your date, she knew your story kind of through the November project. I don't think she actually knew the story at that time. I think it was probably our second date. We were at Yachts and I kind of explained it all to her and I think she was very receptive that I was willing to explain it all. I think at that point I kind of had it in my mind where I'm just going to be me, and if you don't like it, that's on you.

That's OK. At the end of the day, I'm going to be honest and just be who I am. That's a that's good for you. Yeah, it it took a while to get. There, of course, but still. But it it feels so much better than trying to hide everything in. Right. Well, the stress of trying to, you know, hide it. Like who did I tell? Who have I not told or like? I don't know, it just seems like. For sure, and it's a. Hard way to live. And I mean, it's not I explain these things to people because, I mean my past is my past. It shaped me into who I am.

I wouldn't change any of it. Because today, not trying to sound narcissistic, but I think I'm a great person. I will do anything for anyone. And I've learned a lot by seeing that dark side of life. It's still tough though. I go to apply for a job and my background check lights up like a Christmas tree and I have to seriously go through 27 interviews just to explain to people what is this? Because they're like, I would never expect this by talking to you. So, you know, there's a lot of things I still deal with, but yeah. Yeah, right. You're like, wait a minute, did we, did you give me the wrong Social Security number or like, what's going on?

Yeah, yeah. I was going to ask you about when you're overcoming an addiction, getting sober, most people, for most people, it's not the first time. You're like, successful forever, right? So when I googled Timmy Howard Indianapolis, do you know what I saw? My DUI. Your DUI and I was like, and I look, I literally look at the picture. I'm like, is this the right Timmy? Like, I looked at it and I like just looking at that guy you you couldn't really, you couldn't tell that that's you, right? It looks like a completely different. Person I had completely spiraled. So Steph and I were still together.

What happened was we were going to so many November project functions, and it was nobody's fault there. But a lot of the functions involved drinking. And it was just, that's what a lot of people did. They went to bars, they did this, they did that. Eventually I got to the point where I had been sober off of heroin for so long. I was like, oh, OK, I can drink. This would be fine. Like, I can control that. It's not heroin. Yeah, no, I couldn't control it and it immediately spiraled down. I had a job where I was working for corporate running company that was just terrible to his employees and I was a store manager and they were working me to death and I was drinking while I was at work.

I was, it was just it was not good. So I ended up getting really bad one day and I drove home from a bar and hit a cop car that was parked on the side of the road. And yeah, so that's kind of why I stopped drinking, because I realized, holy crap, I can't do that either. It's it, it messes with you because for so long I kept saying, you know, I just want to be normal. Like, I want to go out to the bar and be normal and be able to drink a beer with somebody. And what's wild is that's kind of where Athletic Brewing came into play because I was filming a a different podcast and I had seen Athletic brewing around.

Even a friend of mine, Beth's, she gave me a case of it and I was like, I'm not drinking that crap when I get drunk. Yeah, I'm like, I'm sober now. I drink to get drunk. So she had given me that. But anyways, so I'm filming this podcast and the guy, Luke, who he works at Athletic Annex, you've probably seen him around, but he had Athletic brewing. He's like, here, just try it. And Steph and I were so nervous because I had been doing so well with not drinking. And I'm like, is this going to send me back? Like having the taste? Did you quickly Did you need any help?

Did you go? Did you have any professional help or did you just stop drinking? Oh, no, I just. I just stopped. Yeah, that time I just stopped a good, a good jail stint because I had to go to jail for a little bit. That kind of woke me up. And I was like, OK, we're we're living the same things with heroin. It's just with alcohol now. So yeah, so I stopped right there. But yeah, so I I tried it and I was like, holy crap, this stuff is really good. And I'm like, it's alcohol free. Okay. Like this is really cool. So then I got to the point where I could take it to parties and I could do things like and nobody would ask me.

I think the most thing, the thing that was super uncomfortable for me when I first started was why aren't you drinking? Because I'm like an open book, but my book is like 700 pages. Right. So it's like you don't. Do you really want to know the answer to that question? Yeah, do do we want to dive into this? Yeah. How much time do you have? Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't like answering that because I'm like, it doesn't matter why I'm not drinking. I just want to drink like, yeah, you know, but you don't want to be rude. It's. Just such a weird question, but it's just an automatic thing like it's.

It's not hard for. Them they're just like. But yeah, it's like, can we just stop asking that question? Please. So But yeah, we finally got to the point with those where it was like, OK, I can have these, no one asked me and I actually love them. So this is fantastic. And then we found like simple things like I used to pair one step and I did drink. We would like having like beer with food pairing different things and we found that with athletic brewing too. So. And at what point did you become an official ambassador for them? Shortly after, actually, probably three or four months after, I became an ambassador for them, 'cause, just 'cause I was like.

I love that holy. Crap. Makes a ton of sense. Yeah, I wouldn't still like I I don't know. It's it's safe to say I would have still had a hard time remaining sober if I wouldn't have found them just because they've been that like just door opening for everything in my life and it's given me a lot of purpose, which has been really neat. And they've obviously, with this film, they've given me a massive platform to hopefully be able to help somebody because that's kind of what my my goal in life is now is to just be able to help people. So before we talk about the film, I do want to say I'm also a big fan of athletic brewing.

I found them. I don't know when they were founded, but I I had them when I was first pregnant with my first daughter. And she's 6 1/2, so it was a while ago. You. Probably had it 'cause I think it was 2017. Don't quote me on that, but. It was then. Maybe I had it right after I had her, or I don't know it well, 'cause I had her in 2017, in July, and I don't know how. I first I think I was getting ads, like a ton of ads. They must have known I was pregnant. I don't know Facebook and everything. So they probably did.

They probably knew I was pregnant. They're like, here, you drink, drink this while you're pregnant, right? And I I just remember thinking that when I was pregnant, I've always been, I don't know, I guess I should say I've always been a big drinker. Like, not alcoholic but like always partying, you know, just like when I go out, that's what I do. And so and I love having a beer or whatever. And so when I was pregnant, I'm like, God, people are going to know I'm pregnant right away because the second I'm not drinking. Hello. Yeah. And so. But that is when I found athletic brewing.

And so I could kind of fake it easier. And I also enjoyed it. They didn't have all the flavors. They have now, like all the flavors. What do you call it? Different brews they have. Brews and and so, yeah, now they've got like everything. And so I'm a huge fan of the hazy IPA, 'cause that's the beer I like to drink normally. And so now I usually have some in my fridge and I I drink still. But I, you know, just on a week night, I don't, I don't need to have a drink. I don't need it. I just it's kind of the ritual of it, right?

So. And I think that's what's been wild with this athletic brewing is I've met so many people along the way because I'll take it out to events and distribute it. There's so many people are like, you know, I have to work the next morning sometimes I don't want a beer. And then they taste it and they're like, oh, Oh my God, this tastes exactly like the real thing. They're like, this is totally fine. And yeah, because again, drinking is not bad until you start having problems like I was having then it is a very big problem. I mean, the people who go out like you and they function totally fine.

I wasn't one of those. So it was like, you know, just understanding where you're at in life. Well, and more and more now, like there's more research about like linking alcohol and cancer. And so it's not just like, you know, so it is something that. You can see it on your garment. I mean, if you drink, you can see your resting heart rate. Oh, 100% my heart rate variability. Like I have an aura ring. And so like at night, like a night where I've drank the next morning and it'll be like, oh, hey, like your heart rate variability, You know, we can tell that you drank basically like it.

Leaves it so elevated. Yeah, it's wild. So anyway, but I just did want to give them an additional shout out for making a great product and doing being one of the first to do so really and make a good product because there were other, but they were kind of gross. You had your Heineken Zoo. And which is like if you like Heineken, it tastes like Heineken. Yeah, which actually is not a bad one. It's not the worst, yeah, but there was the other one o'doulas like. Yeah. O'doulas is gross. Like no or like Saint Pauli or what's that one. I don't know. Yeah nasty. So and there's also now and I don't know if you've ever been but there is a a non alcoholic liquor store.

Yes. The Lawrence I. Haven't been there yet. My wife and I, we want to go up and check it. Out. Yeah, it's it's great. So I've been to the one over on Hazel Dell and then now they have one in the village of West Clay, which I don't live in the village but I live close and so I've gone in there a couple times, but again, just giving alternatives and I think it's just nice to have the alternative. It is, and it's. You see, every single restaurant and sports facility is now going to an NA option, which is fantastic because there's a want and a need.

And then I think Athletic Brewing helped to highlight. They really. Showcase that. So it's been really neat to see because now Steph and I, we can go to whatever party with anybody at whatever bar and I can almost guarantee they're going to have Athletic at. Least, which is just, yeah, it's so cool. It's like, thank goodness that you get to be sober in this time period where you have options that are good. So yeah, shout out to them. So what was the the process of becoming an ambassador? It was basically they just, they open it up online and it's just something where you fill out a little bio about you, what's going on with it and like what's going on in your life, what's your Instagram handle is yadda yadda yadda.

A buddy of mine, Blake, knew one of the head marketing guys for Athletic. So I think he kind of gave me a little nudge and was like, hey, this guy will definitely like Rep you guys. So they ended up getting me in, and then once I got in as an ambassador, like, I love the company before. Like, I was absolutely in love with the company once I became an ambassador because I realized what they did and how much they gave back to their athletes, their community, the trail systems they donate so much back to. They're not just like all about profit. It's like, hey, let's build a community around this.

And community has been my entire focal point since I've gotten sober. So our you know, goals and views and life's just aligned so well. Yeah, it's really cool. How many ambassadors do you think they have? At any given time, I'd say about 1000 kind of just fluctuates with how people, if they're doing things, they give you little challenges you can do like run a 5K, run a, you know, do a trash, pick up things like that. So just things that better the environment or better you. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. I didn't, I don't know all that they do to give back. And so it's they seem like a brand that would be.

They they give 2% of their sales to the trail systems. So a lot of like the rails to trail systems, they help in building those. So they're giving a lot of money back just to the trails that we use every day, which is really neat. So now at what point were they like, hey Timmy, do you want to be in a movie? So they had, they also do cool things like they they offer up some racing opportunities. So like they have spots into Leadville, obviously a very big race, the mountain bike at Leadville, obviously a very big race. But then they had opened up a spot at Iron Man, Lake Placid.

I had done 270 point threes up to this point. Which is 1/2 Iron Man, yes, who does not know. And I knew I wanted to do a full, but financially I just, I couldn't justify it because it was $1000 for the race entry and then you're talking another 3 to $4000 in travel and I'm like, that could be an awesome trip somewhere. Not to mention a bike that would like not make you look like an idiot. And so they, they offered. They were like, hey, you know, apply if you want to try to be on this team. So I I asked my wife, I was like, you think I should apply for it?

She's like, are you stupid? Yeah, apply for it. Like, I like her. And so I applied. And then I remember I got that e-mail and I was, like, jumping for joy because I knew I wanted to challenge myself and do it. But just financially, I didn't think I could just commit to that. So they paid for my race entry, all that. And as I'm training, it was me and nine other teammates. So I get to connect with all these people from all over the country and share training tips, share what we're doing. How did you do that? Like on on Facebook, Instagram Like. Instagram, We had a Facebook group as well as Instagram, and it was just neat, like connecting with so many of them, so many that I'm still friends with to this day.

And like, we just all connected. And even people that I wasn't on that team with like that they were on a separate team. We all became friends. Super cool. So anyway, so as we're doing that, they had started to talk about the idea of doing a documentary and they were like, hey, we think it'd be really cool to focus it around our Lake Placid team. And I think somewhere along the lines we had heard my story probably through me like sharing on social media. So we started an interview process and they ended up interviewing everybody on the team, like figuring out what their story was, what you know, what they wanted in the film, because it obviously has to be something that is good for them, but they think will benefit the community.

So we ended up going through this like four week interview process where I'm like zoom in with producers and athletic brewing and telling my story over and over again. It's like, anyways, I ended up getting the call and they accepted me for the documentary, which was really neat and it's been a wild ride with it. So yeah, that's really neat. And so how many athletes are featured? I should know that. There's three. So myself and two others, yeah. I mean. It's it's really cool and the documentary is 70 minutes, so I mean to tell three stories to. Tell your story in 70 minutes and. That's we've had.

We've had. Post I'm already struggling here. We've had post interviews where the producer was like dude, he's like we could have done a whole one on you easily, but it it's really neat to see There's different relatability for everybody and the different characters in the story. Everybody has some sort of a relatable piece, which is really neat. Otherwise if you just see mine, it's like not many people can relate with that. You know what I was doing. So it's neat to see all the different stories. But yeah, it was super wild. I mean they came out here, we did sit down interviews like like this, but just camera on you.

And I remember our sit down interview was five hours where we just talked. And Can you imagine condensing all that into maybe 20 minutes of me on film? Right. At least that wasn't your job. Yeah, that would be so hard. Wild. Yeah, Yeah. So it was. It was a neat process. And where did they interview you at your home at? At work, yeah. So they they interviewed me at home. They came to my work at NIFS, they came to my work at Athletic Annex, came to one of the races I was doing photography at, Film me biking around the city. Dressed like a hot dog?

Yes. Excellent. They film me biking all through the city. Got some really cool shots. And then I hit every pothole known to man. So like, they're driving in this SUV with the Hatch open and I am on my Tri bike. We're going like 2530 mph. And I'm hauling because I've got them as like a draft. And I'm just hitting every single, thank you Indy, every single pothole in Indy. I know. And I was like, if I break my bike right before this race, like I'm going to. Be or your face like. Come on face, I can fix that but the? Bike I need. The bike.

That's fair. Yeah. Wow, so wild. And is Steph featured as well? She is. She is the comedic relief of the film, which is good. It's a it's a it's a serious film, 'cause there's a lot of tough issues that we talk about in there. But yeah, she's a good comedic relief in there. And how did you so they only did they only come out here once? They did, yeah. So they only came out here once. I think one of the hardest things that we did was I took Steph over to 38th and Shadeland and the bridge that I stayed under. So we had the film crew with us following us and they wanted to kind of see what life was like for me over there.

So I'm. I'm literally showing her the bridge that I slept under. There's guys that are out there panhandling and I know exactly what they're doing, where they're going, you know what I'm saying? Like so I had talked about it, but I don't think she ever physically was in it. Right. Like looked at one of those guys and was like, Oh my God. I mean, we went to the dumpster I used to go to on a regular basis and had her like, right there. And she's just like, this is wild because even even she, she doesn't know me as as that person. She knows me as the person I am today.

So yeah, that was pretty wild. Yeah, that is wild. So did athletic brewing set you up with a coach or anything for like training? Obviously you'd done two half Iron Man's, but like Iron Man. Iron Man's, I don't know. Iron Man's. It's probably. I don't think. They probably don't like Iron Man. I think it's just. Iron Man, We'll contact CEO. Yeah, we'll ask, excuse me, what's the plural of Iron Man's? So you've done 70 point threes, right? So you, you know, kind of knew how to train ish. But. And that's AI was a RRCA run coach, like, I'd gotten really into the run coaching, so I at least knew the periodization and doing all that stuff.

But my I joined a triathlon club called Tri Loco. They're a local group. You probably see them running around. They're crazy, which is just my speed. And my buddy Turtle, he coached me for a little bit of it and then I ended up taking the second-half of it on my own and it went great. It was, I mean, training was not all that fun. It was like a full time job and I was working three jobs. So it was it was exhausting and poor stuff. I mean, she really stepped up throughout that training because we have two. Like, we have two of these in ridgebacks that require tons of energy, and I would train with them when I could, right?

But if you don't run them five to seven miles a day, like they are very upset at you and they want to know why they haven't been out for their daily run. So yeah, it was tough. It was just a lot of swimming, biking, Saturdays, I'd be gone for 8-9 hours on training rides and runs, and then you get home. And I mean, we were talking about this earlier. You're exhausted. Yeah, you're worthless. I mean, if you get a load of the laundry. It's a fantastic day, yeah. So you're not going to fold it, you're just going to get it in the laundry? Yeah, so wait, before you ended up doing or training for Lake Placid, did you, What other races had you done?

Because obviously, you started with the Monumental as a marathon. Well, running wise, I had ran for my birthday. When I turned 34 I wanted to do an ultra, so we went out to Southwest way and just ran 34 miles out there. So I was like, I just want to do an ultra for my birthday. And then I kept getting hurt because I didn't know how to train properly. So that's when I switched to triathlons. And cause running was definitely my cup of tea to begin with and then but I switched to triathlons and fell in love with that, fell in love with the group. So my first triathlon was Tri Louisville, which is down in Louisville obviously, or Louisville as my wife says I can't pronounce.

It it's. Louisville, if you're from Ohio, and that was my first ever triathlon. I remember it was in the Ohio River. So you had to swim upstream because I did an Olympic distance, which is like the second distance, you have to swim upstream to swim downstream. Everybody had a wet suit on. But me, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know what I was getting myself into, Had a total panic attack in the water, almost quit, like it was awful. I ended up finishing. But yeah, I was kind of hooked from that moment. I'm like, OK, this is like a good challenge. So would you classify yourself more as a triathlete than a runner?

Currently, yes. Just because my running has, I am trying to get the running back. Now that's my. That's my focus. So I'd like to get back into some ultras and see if I can do that 'cause I I'm a one and done on Iron Man. Hey, well, you did it the right way. I am like with a film crew, OK? Nothing will live up to that. I've talked to Steph and I'm like, nothing's going to live up to that moment. Having that team, the film crew like Lake Placid, like one of the most beautiful races in the world. Nothing will live up to that. So I'd like to switch back to the ultra world, get back to that.

I still love riding my bike, but. So no marathons, no like Rd. racing. No. I suppose usually you're photographing. Yeah, I mean there was, I would do like a bunch of little local races, you know, 5K's, 10K's, did the Firecracker like every year, those kind of things. But then now I kind of just went straight in the triathlons. And I've, I've never been a competitive person. Like, I like doing it just to see if I can do it. I'm not. I'm not going to stand up toe to toe with you on the line and be like, I got to beat you. Yeah, it's just not my style, so I've never really been into racing.

It's always what I can do to try to test myself and see if like I can find my breaking point so. Yeah, I would say for me, for running, I'm usually not competing with anyone besides myself. But in other things, like if we're going to play a game like a family game night, like I am, like you are going down, I have to rein it in. It's hard. So you get mad. So you get mad if you lose. Well, as an adult now I'm better at masking it. My 6 1/2 year old is not going to masking her of being upset about losing. Neither is Steph, So I get it.

Yeah, Yeah. Maybe it does depend on the game she. Hates it when I beat her in Scrabble. Yeah, that's that's that would be rough. Would be rough. So, so now I am so sad. I didn't see when the second showing of inches to miles went on sale to get a ticket and now I'm screwed again. And where is the showing going? To be so it's going to be at can can downtown, which is really cool because that one, the first one is going to be all athletic brewing. So like athletic brewing's flying in, they're going to be there. We're going to do Q&A the second one, which that'll be very cool.

The second one is going to be all back on my feet. So we'll still do another Q&A. Athletic brewing. We'll send a bunch of free beers, free brews, excuse me. And so back on my feet, we'll do a lot of Q&A and back on my feet just had such a big part in my life. It's going to be really neat. There's a lot of people I haven't seen in a long time that are going to be gone, so it'd be super cool. That'll be super cool, yeah. How do you approach giving back to the community that you used to be a part of? Yeah, so that's what's really become like my life goal now.

So I'm fortunate enough to be involved in the fitness community. I work it as an operations manager at NIFS. Oh yeah, I forgot to say what is Nifs? Yeah, NIFS is the National Institute for Fitness and Sport, very large gym downtown. We're on IP wise campus if anybody is familiar down there, right by the NCAA. So I'm operations manager there and then I also work part time at Athletic Annex. Which location? Nora. OK, so and then the photography, So I mean I'm involved. Every single thing I do is involving fitness and now like same, yeah, it's great, which is fantastic. Like once you find it, that's what you love and that's your calling.

Like run with it. Great Pun. Thank. You so at at NIFS, I become the program coordinator as well. So every year I lead, we have a Nifs Indy Mini marathon training program which is coming up, I don't know when this podcast. Is coming out on Friday, so yeah, tomorrow. The mini marathon is tomorrow, so I have about 120 athletes that are in that program. Wow, that's huge. And it's really fun. So I get to basically coach all them and then I have a set of pace leaders for each pace group. And we train every single Wednesday and we train a lot of people who have never gone out and done any kind of races.

So we train for the 5K and a half marathon, which is a lot of fun. And then can non nifs members join? Absolutely. And then the next one that I'm getting ready to start, which is my highlight every year, it's we do a women's only triathlon training group. I'm the only boy. I I passed initiation. I'm the only boy that's allowed. But we do a women's only triathlon training group and it is so much fun because women, the camaraderie that they have is wild, like they are so good at taking care of each other and cheering each other on. So myself and Chris Simpson lead that typically it's about 40 females.

We used to do the Go Girl triathlon. I was going to. Ask. Yeah, unfortunately that race has been cancelled. I did hear that. Yes, unfortunately that race has been cancelled. So we're going to do, I heard through the Grapevine that Eagle Creek has doubled their rates on a lot of races. Let's see what Eagle Creek for you. I know, I don't know if that's true, but that's what I heard from a very credible source. And then, but we're going to do the third Eagle Creek Sprint try, which is the same exact race course. It'll just be a Coed race. So yeah, that's it's really the highlight of my year because we get out and it's really amazing to see.

People will get into the pool for the first time, we swim at the Natatorium and I will literally be watching people to make sure they don't drown. Swimming, it's, it's tough. I didn't know how to swim when I started. Right you. Never really done a lot of swimming at. All I didn't even know you were supposed to breathe out underwater. I was holding my breath the whole time, trying to figure out, like, why I couldn't breathe do. I breathe out. I'm a horrible swimmer. YouTube saved my life through that stuff, but it's amazing to watch that and then watch their transformation 9 weeks later and all of a sudden they're crossing the finish line, so.

I have done one of the Eagle Creek sprints. It was a very long time ago. There's so much fun. Though it was fun because it's short enough to where I didn't feel like I was going to die. Exactly. You know. 500 yards is much more manageable than 2.4 miles. Yeah, so I also, so I got a septoplasty earlier this year, which is basically it's a nose job. I found out that I had a horribly deviated septum. So basically I wasn't getting all the air that I should and I've had it my whole life. And I, my daughter had tubes put in whatever, she had her adenoids taken out and other thing in your nose.

And I thought maybe I should get my, like, check to see because I've like now hindsight, I'm like, Oh yeah, like I've always had trouble breathing. But that long story, that's why I have never been able to be a good swimmer because I couldn't breathe and I didn't know that. So I in college, I was injured at one point and I had my roommate and her friend like trying to teach me how to swim and I just wasn't getting it. Like I couldn't get the efficiency of the breathing down. And now come to find out it's 'cause I probably couldn't breathe like, at all. So that's.

Probably helped your running too though. I mean just being able. To billion percent extra oxygen. So like being able to like on cute like do breathing. It's it's like, oh wow, I can actually breathe now. Nice. This should be good. Good. So anyway, I digress. So we were chatting about the Mini because it's timely. I saw a post on Instagram of you and your bike that you'll have with a flag. Will you just be? Are you photographing the event? I am. So I go out. I photograph my group. Any of my friends that I see, I photograph last year, obviously I dressed up as a giant hot dog.

I'm Timmy Hot Dog Howard on Instagram. I dressed up as a giant hot dog last year. This year I am Ricky Bobby. So I got a full Ricky Bobby jumpsuit. My friend is going to be Cal Norton Junior and we're going to be out there in the full jumpsuits. And then I've got a if you ain't first your last flag, but I'm going to change that to if you ain't first, you're still fast And then so we'll be out there cheering. So if you guys see me, yell Timmy. I will take your photo and do my best to get to the photo. See. That's so nice.

Yeah, that's so kind of you. It's so nice to be able to give photos for free because half the times the ones that you get from the races suck. Yeah, I had ancients and everyone, and I'm always like, both feet on the ground. Yeah. Yeah. I remember seeing you at Carmel and I was like, do I look like running like? You were doing fine. Please make it look like I'm running for me. Thank. You I don't always get everybody, but it's just fun to share this with people, you know? I always loved getting photos of me when I first started so. Yeah. How did you get into that?

Did I ask you already while we were recording? I can't. Remember the photography? Photography. It just kind of came to be. I always loved photography and then ended up getting the camera and it just kind of took off. I was like, OK, I'm, I can be decent at this. I took one course at Roberts and. Yeah, I was going to ask like YouTube or yeah, I. Took one course at Roberts and then it was just a lot of trial and error. I started shooting for November projects, which shooting at 6:00 AM in the morning when it's dark and you're shooting moving subjects, is very hard and will teach you to learn very fast.

There was a few that I took that were like totally bright and neon. And thanks, Jason, for never calling me out on how terrible those were. But I didn't know, you know, It was fun doing that and learning. So I learned a lot with that. Yeah, I also forgot to say earlier, the November project, come to find out, had my favorite sign at the Monumental half last year. Which one was it? It said fuck yes. Yes, sounds like. Us I've, I've posted. I said something about it I think maybe in like a caption after the race. And I was like and my favorite sign was the fuck yes sign that was like right before the finish line.

I love it. It might have said fuck yeah. And I was like it's. Yeah, fuck yeah. Because every morning we do a bounce, like a height bounce before our workout and then the leaders will say are you good and the entire group will scream fuck yeah. So that's and I. So I didn't know that that was a November project thing. So someone like, Oh yeah, that was a November project sign. And I was like, I like them. That's fine. It's fine. It's good energy, that's for sure, yeah. Well, and now I will have to mark this as explicit. No, it's good. I do like to say fuck, so it's fine.

That's a fun word. It is. So yeah. Anyway, so I will be looking for you out there. I can't wait to push with Ainsley's Angels, which we were chatting about, and that you had done not just running, but with triathlons. That's so cool. For anybody who hasn't heard about that program, look it up Ainsley's Angels. They are incredible. The leadership is amazing. Everyone involved in the program is amazing. So yeah, so I've done 2 triathlons with them in which you swim by pulling them in a raft, you bike with them attached to the back of your bike, and then you run by pushing in the wheelchair, which is what you'll be doing for the media.

And a lot of these people, the they may not ever have an opportunity to race and go out and experience that joy that you and I do. So we are that little piece that helps them experience that. And I promise you, you will never love a finish line more than when you cross that and you see them like it's. The look on their face is just incredible and they are the sweetest people. You're going to absolutely love it. I'm so excited. So I found out that I'm on Team Hope. Yes, OK. So for anybody listening to this before the mini, look for Team Hope, I'm going to make, they said.

Chrissy told me not to make sure it's because it's subject to change. And I was like, well, if it changes then I'll just put some duct tape over the name and just try a different one. Because I want to make a shirt that says like cheer for Hope or whatever so that they know. I feel like it's kind of hard when you run beside A-Team there. It does have the name on the chair itself, but sometimes it's kind of hard as you're running by to like tell. And so I wanted to make sure it's so that people could be sure to like Cheer for Hope and for my like stalking on Facebook.

I believe she is a young girl and I don't know yet. Like, I'm interested to see, you know, is she verbal, like will be able to have a relation to where we talk or like play music for her or I'm just really excited to meet her and her family. I think that's what's so fun is there's so many different people within that program that, you know, you just, you get to meet them and you learn their story because they all have a story and it's so neat and so inspiring just to be with them and to, you know, just spend the night with them. Yeah, and like, will she be able to go up and like walk across or run across the finish?

You know, it's like, I'm just really excited to provide somebody with that experience. Like you said, you're going to love it. I can't wait. So my friend, absolutely going to love it. Ashley Schwab is doing it with me. Hopefully her knees been acting up. I'm like, OK, well, I don't think I can go to just pushing the whole way by myself. You'd be. Surprised those those wheelchairs. They help you out a little bit. Yeah. So, yeah, So look for me out there. Look for Timmy out there. What have we not covered? Timmy, we've covered a lot. I feel like we've covered everything. That's good. Oh, listen, why, hot dog?

I didn't. I didn't figure out the why behind that. So before I found athletic brewing, I'll try to keep this short and sweet. Before I found athletic brewing again, I was struggling with the spritey thing. We were doing a beer mile, so my friend does the Washington Blvd. Beer mile. OK, I've never done that. It's look it up on Instagram. It's a hell of the time. So we do it every year. It's the day after the monumental marathon. OK, so we were doing that. And I wasn't drinking. I hadn't found athletic yet, and I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I was like, I love hot dogs.

I was like, maybe I'll do a chili cheese dog mile. So. You did not do a Chili Cheese dog. I did. Just a hot dog. Oh God. No chili cheese, dog bun, everything. I was like, what can I make really hard? So that is, I make these chili cheese dogs, and it was a terrible idea. I was like choking while I was running. I love hot dogs. I love a chili cheese dog. But I couldn't imagine. It was so rough, but yeah, so how many? Did you eat? Four so. You do it like. Sized hot dogs. So each quarter mile I ate a hot dog.

Obviously if you were doing the beer mile, you would chug a beer, but I. Still would be hard. It's very hard. Even just even a non alcoholic beer. A brew. This past year I did it with. That, yeah, I think I did see that. Actually so hard I vomited. Yeah, it's not easy. It's a lot of carbonation. That's what gets you. But yeah, so I did that. I changed my Instagram handle to. I think I was like, Timmy runs Ultras or something before that, and then I had changed it to Timmy hot Dog Howard just as a joke, and it just stuck. And so a hot dog has become my brand.

Everybody knows me as the hot dog guy. So yeah, it's just stuck. And here we are. And you have how many hot dog costumes do you have just? One I have quite a bit and my entire office at work is gifts of hot dog things that people have given me throughout the years. So it's just filled with hot dogs, which is very ironic working at a fitness center because as they walk into my office, it's hot dogs, everything. It's like. Could be worse I guess, right? Trust me. My friend Ashley Schwab, actually the one running with me on on Saturday, loves hot dogs. Good. We went on a vacation once and she would not eat sushi.

She would only eat gas station hot dogs. And I was like, maybe I'll have a hot dog ready for us. You guys run by? She would eat it, probably. That'd be hilarious. But I do love that. And now maybe I know I ran out of time to make you something that I usually bring a mug to my guest. And so now I know I'll just have to, like, make a crazy hot dog mug. That would be fantastic. So, yeah. Oh, all right. Well, before I forget to ask you the end of the podcast questions, I'm going to do that lately. I keep. I just completely forget.

So I don't want to do that. What is your running or you know, triathlon, mantra or song? I would say my mantra is just look where you've been, look where you are. It's the pain that I went through back then was I can overcome anything and that's what I tell myself when I'm going through it there. There's nothing I've been through much worse. Yeah. Do you listen to music? Oh, yeah, yeah. Death metal. Death metal. Yeah, death metal. Metal core. Not Steph's favorite cup of tea. I. Was going to say. Did she like it? It wasn't a phase, Mom. It's. I'm still stuck on it.

Oh, boy. So. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. OK, so may not put any of your favorite songs on the playlist then. No need, no need. It's all good. It's it's, I just love. I listen to everything I really do. But if, if I have, if I have my choice, that's it, yeah. If you're going to get like really pumped. Out for sure, yeah. Yeah. OK. And then what is your next finish line and or milestone? We might have to do both for you given your sobriety. I I would say just As for a physical finish line, I would love to do like a 50 mile or then 100 mile or one day.

There's a crazy race that my buddy told me about that I've really been eyeing. It's basically in the freezing cold and you do a freezing cold swim, then you bike up a freezing cold mountain, then you run up a freezing cold mountain and it's like double the distance of what an Ironman is. What? So yeah, so I would love to ultimately do something like that. How many people? Live through that race. There's only like 200 that get accepted. I'm sure. Crazy like Western states like you have the chance to die type thing. I would love to do that one day just to see if I could do it.

But we're talking a long ways down the line and then I just want to continue doing what I'm doing and helping as many people as I can Help. I I get no better satisfaction than crossing the finish line with Angel's Angels like we were talking about. Or seeing the people that I've been coaching through these training programs across the finish line because there was people that helped train me for my first race and that's what kick started my life. So I want to be there to help kick start other people's lives. It's amazing how running a 5K can transform you, but I see it on a yearly basis, daily basis and it's amazing and I just want to keep continue to do that.

Yeah. Do you run with back on my feet anymore, ever? I haven't. No, I I it's just with how packed my schedule. I was going to say with all that you're doing. I haven't had time to get down to them. I still see them. They they run right by November project quite a bit. And you know, we'll always yell at them good morning back on my feet and they'll always yell right back to us. So that's really good. That's really good. And So what is the anniversary of your sobriety and what is the next? When's the next milestone? For you there, May 18th was when I got sober off of heroin.

I believe it's May 18th. I have it on my Instagram. That's how I remember. And but yeah, that was so when I got sober off heroin. As for the alcohol, I don't have the exact date. It was just kind of one of those things where it morphed and then, like once I got sober from the DUI, it was just one of those things where I was like, I'm not going to count On this date and I just kept staying sober and staying sober and staying sober. So I don't even know the exact amount of time. I haven't had a drink. I know it's been a really long time.

And it's just it's one of those things where I've just built such a life without it. That's what's been so good. It's so. I mean, holy crap to me. Totally. It's a wild ride. It's. I mean, what a ride. And thank you. Kudos to you for even squeezing it all. There's so much that we even we leave out because we just have to that you can't squeeze it all in. But I. Don't know how many people who listen to this are going for like 4 hour runs, like we could give it all to him for sure. But yeah, well, thank you so much for for being here.

Absolutely thank you for having me. Absolutely, my pleasure. I I hope that everyone can see the film and just share it with somebody. That's my big thing. Maybe somebody who'll see it like that was struggling like me, and maybe they'll be able to change. That's my main thing. I mean, I wasn't paid to do this. They didn't give me anything other than to get to race. But like, I, I hoped it'll help change somebody's life. Yeah. It will, Yeah, undoubtedly. Absolutely. And thanks everybody who has listened and happy running. Absolutely. And triathloning. Yes. Is that a word? Yes.

Ally Brettnacher