Episode 105: Maury Plambeck - I Can Always Run a Mile

Episodes

Apr 25

Listener note: This episode includes discussion of the Boston Marathon bombing, a partner living with AIDS, and the Fox Hollow Farm murders of gay men in the 1990s.

Maury Plambeck ran 24 Indy Minis in a row, qualified for Boston at 52, ran a 3:20 marathon at 60, and has spent decades giving back to Indianapolis.

Listen on Apple Podcasts · Listen on Spotify · Watch on YouTube

About this episode

Maury Plambeck and I serve together on the Beyond Monumental board, and this was my chance to really get to know him. He grew up on a hog farm near Bancroft, Nebraska, a town of 500, became a city planner, and moved to Indianapolis in 1988, where he went on to lead the city's Department of Metropolitan Development. He started running in his early 30s, ran the Indy Mini 24 years in a row, and ran his best marathon, a 3:20, at age 60.

We talk about finishing the 2013 Boston Marathon shortly before the bombing, freezing through the 2018 Boston in the rain, and why he has volunteered with Back on My Feet for 13 years. Maury also shares his 38 years with his husband, Sam, who has lived with AIDS since 1992, his work on the boards of the Damien Center and Tangram, what it was like living near the Fox Hollow Farm story in the 1990s, and his long bike trips on rail trails.

In this episode, we discuss

How Maury ended up on the Beyond Monumental board as the city liaison
What city planning and zoning actually are
Working on the Downtown Canal, Circle Centre Mall and the Monon as head of the Department of Metropolitan Development
Choosing Indianapolis over Alameda, California because the planning office was on the 21st floor
Growing up on a Nebraska hog farm and in a high school class of 32
Running 24 Indy Minis in a row and his best Mini of 1:29 at age 40
How a Bourbon Chase relay led to his first marathon and a Boston qualifier at 52
Finishing the 2013 Boston Marathon and hearing the bombing
Running his best marathon, 3:20, at Charlevoix at age 60 and the cold, rainy 2018 Boston
Why a 5K or the Monumental Mile can be harder than a marathon
Volunteering with Back on My Feet at Wheeler Mission, Pathways and Progress House
Serving on the boards of Tangram and the Damien Center
Meeting his husband Sam in Cheyenne and Sam's life with AIDS since 1992
The Fox Hollow Farm murders and what the gay community felt in 1990s Indianapolis
Bike trips on the Great Allegheny Passage, Natchez Trace, Katy Trail and Cowboy Trail

Chapters

00:00 · Intro
06:00 · Meet Maury and Beyond Monumental
08:00 · What a city planner does
17:00 · Choosing Indianapolis
21:00 · Growing up on a Nebraska hog farm
27:00 · How running started and 24 straight Minis
34:00 · Bourbon Chase and a first marathon
37:00 · Boston 2013
42:00 · A 3:20 at 60 and Boston in the rain
48:00 · Back on My Feet
56:00 · Monumental Kids Movement and Tangram
1:00:00 · Meeting Sam and the Damien Center
1:10:00 · Coming out and getting married
1:15:00 · Fox Hollow Farm
1:21:00 · Long-distance bike rides
1:26:00 · Mantra and Chicago next

Brought to you by

BITCHSTIX: 20% off your order with code ALLYB. Shop BITCHSTIX

Mentioned in this episode

Races: Indy Mini-Marathon, CNO Financial Indianapolis Monumental Marathon, Boston Marathon, Charlevoix Marathon, New York City Marathon, Chicago Marathon, Carmel Marathon, Bourbon Chase, Monumental Mile, Run 317 series, Drumstick Dash, RAGBRAI, Indy Night Ride
Organizations and charities: Beyond Monumental, Monumental Kids Movement, Back on My Feet, Wheeler Mission, Pathways, Progress House, Tangram, Damien Center, City of Indianapolis Department of Metropolitan Development, University of Nebraska, Indianapolis Men's Chorus, National Federation of the Blind of Indiana, Indy Runners, Indianapolis Neighborhood Resource Center
Other: Monon Trail, Indianapolis Cultural Trail, Great Allegheny Passage, C&O Canal Towpath, Natchez Trace Parkway, Katy Trail, Cowboy Trail, Fox Hollow Farm, Indianapolis Downtown Canal

Previous guests mentioned

Related episodes

Frequently asked

Who ran the Indy Mini 24 years in a row?

Maury Plambeck, a retired Indianapolis city planner, ran the Indy Mini-Marathon 24 years in a row starting in the early 1990s, with a best time of 1:29 at age 40.

How old was Maury Plambeck when he qualified for Boston?

Maury Plambeck first qualified for the Boston Marathon at 52 at the Indianapolis Monumental Marathon, ran Boston in 2013, and ran his best marathon of 3:20 at age 60 at Charlevoix.

What is Back on My Feet Indianapolis?

Back on My Feet is a national organization that uses early-morning group runs to help people experiencing homelessness and recovery rebuild their lives, and Maury Plambeck has volunteered with its Indianapolis teams for 13 years.

Support this show

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically, so it may contain errors.

Ally Brettnacher: This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

Ally Brettnacher: Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones. I'm your host, Ally Brettnacher, and if you run, you're a runner, and every runner has a story, which is why I created this podcast to help share those stories from all different runners. Join me each week as we celebrate milestones and cross finish lines together.

So first of all, huge, huge, huge congratulations to all of the Boston Marathon finishers. As I record this. Boston was just on Monday. It is now Thursday, and I still am just scrolling through my feed, liking every Boston photo that I see. Hope to get there someday, but I hope for everybody who was there that you had a great race, too many people to name.

'cause then I'll forget somebody and feel horrible about it. And then speaking of feeling horrible about it. The Carmel marathon, which was supposed to be last Saturday, was canceled thanks to thunderstorms in the area, and it was just the worst possible scenario, the worst timing. And I worked the expo all day on Friday from nine to nine.

Met so many incredible people. First time marathoners. I just feel awful that everybody, you know, who got on a plane who'd been training so hard, just all of the things. My heart was broken for all of you, and I know that they're not able to reschedule it, but they did move it virtually, which allowed me silver lining to be able to run.

I did mine yesterday. The half marathon. So I will be getting the medal whenever they give us the instructions to do that. But again, my heart goes out to Jay Duba and his wife Katie, who spent the entire last year planning this event and stayed up all night, literally all night before the race, only to have to cancel and disappoint so many.

Including themselves. And I just, yeah, my, my heart goes out to you guys and I can't wait till next year. We will come back bigger, better than ever. And for anybody who somehow didn't get the memo, they've partnered with other races around the area with some great discount offers, as well as some great discounts for the Carmel Marathon next year.

So thank you Jay and Katie, we are here for you. And now I am gearing up for the Indy Mini, which you've heard me talk quite a bit about. It is our big half marathon to kick off the month of May here in Indianapolis, Indiana. And this will be my 17th time running, and it'll be my first time having a booth at the Expo. It'll be my first time hosting an event the night before the race.

And I'm just freaking out a little bit. So I am scrambling to get as much ready as I can before the big event and praying to stay healthy and that the weather cooperates for us for this one. And so if you don't already have tickets to the Friday night event, the link. Is in my Instagram bio or in the show notes here on Instagram.

I'm @allytbrett_runs, so go follow me there where I share all the information about that. And we have a handful of tickets left. We are trying to fit as many people as we can into this gorgeous venue that the Bottleworks Hotel has, and we are. Announcing a very exciting title sponsor.

Better late than ever, and we'll be announcing that soon. Perhaps it's already been announced by the time you're listening to this, but cannot wait to work with this brand for this amazing event. It's gonna be outstanding. So don't miss out. And please, if you're local to Indianapolis or you're coming in for the race, please come say hello at the expo.

Would love to meet you and my guest this week is Maury Beck. Maury and I are on the board for the Indianapolis Monumental Marathon together. The organization is called Beyond Monumental, so I've gotten to meet Maury but not really get to know him, and this was my opportunity to do just that. He has actually run the Indy Mini. He thinks 26 or 27 times. So you think 17 is a lot. My goodness. And . 24 of those were in a row, which is just mind blowing. he is such a steward to our community, not just for beyond monumental, but for other organizations that he works with here in our community.

I think after listening to this episode, you'll wanna volunteer more. I know it made me. Wanna do just that. Maury is also doing the Run 3 1 7 series that's kicking off here very, very soon. So I will link in the show notes for some more information. If you are local, it's a series of races that are 3.17 miles, and a big huge party.

So great opportunity to get involved in the running community and have a blast on Thursdays starting soon. So look for that information in the show notes or on my social I also have a birthday party for my 4-year-old next Sunday, and it's like teacher appreciation week next week, and I feel like my brain is just on overdrive.

I'm doing my best over here. So thank you to everybody for listening to this conversation with Maury Beck.

But first, real quick, this episode is brought to you by Previnex. Previnex offers clinically effective supplements to promote longevity, performance, and everyday health. You may have heard me talking about their gut and greens, which I use to replace the greens that I was taking. They have just the ingredients with benefits, and it's also less expensive than what I was using before.

I've also started using their muscle health. For after a workout, I take that to help my muscles recover faster, which I certainly need. And they are also sponsoring our upcoming Indie mini event where they will be providing both flavors of their NiFi plus protein powder and a blender bottle in all goodie bags.

And their CEO and founder who is local to Indie David Block will be in attendance for you to meet him and hear his passion that he has for this company and his mission. And if you are not local to Indie, but you would like to try Previnex, you can go to Previnex.com. And use code ALLY15 for 15% off your first order.

Thank you so much, Previnex for supporting this podcast and our upcoming event.

IMG_8176: Maury p Beck. Welcome. Is it, did I say it right? It's Beck. Beck. Okay. Hold on. Ma. It's Beck. Like exactly how it's spelled. Right. But if you were German, you would say P Beck. Okay. My grandparents had p Beck, but Okay.

That's German. Yeah, it's a German name. Yeah. , Well, Brettnacher. Yeah. Also German. Yeah. Really? People are like, Brett Naer spelled that way. I guess it's fair. Okay. Beck p. Beck. I'm so excited. You could say P Beck. Anyway, if you, well, I messed that up. Yeah, I'm sure you get it both ways. I did lots of different ways.

My first, my first name too. Your first name too. How do people say your first name? Oh, Murray. Oh, they don't read it? Yeah. Murray lots of times. Or, , Marsha, if you're really not reading something. Whoa, Marsha. Yeah. And yeah, that's it. My given name is Maurice. No one ever calls me Maurice. Maurice. My parents never called me Maurice.

But. I write it that way sometimes. That's, that's always interesting. Maurice is a really cool name. I was trying to think. you know, I have little kids, so Beauty and the Beast. Maurice is like, I picture, I think that's her, is her dad's name. I don't know. Anyway, we digress. We do. This is how it goes.

Yeah. So welcome and thank you so much for coming from downtown all the way up here to Carmel to do this with me. Well, thanks for inviting me. Of course. I'm excited. Yeah. I'm super excited. Yeah. So we met through the board for Beyond Monumental, which I assume people know this by now, but perhaps they don't.

Is the organization behind the CNO Indianapolis Monumental Marathon and several other events? Yes. And you were on the board when I joined. I was, yes. And we were talking about before we hit record is we both don't remember how long anything is going on. So it's, you've been on for a long time. Wow. Has it been more than 10 years though?

I don't think it's been more than 10 years. Okay. It was before the pandemic though, and I think I have like two years left. Okay. I think I went second for the last year. Okay. And what, made you join the Beyond Monumental Board? Well, like many things in my life, it just happened. I will say it just happened.

had lots of friends in the running committee and so a couple of them were on a committee for Beyond Monumental, working on the strategic plan. Okay. And they said, oh, and I'm a planner. Right. So, hey, would you like to be on this committee with us? And so Sure. Pretty soon The other board members were like, Hey, would you want to be on the board? having had worked for the city of Indianapolis, I was kind of the city liaison. Gotcha. they had just had a person that worked for the city. Who had gone off the board, and so they said, you want to be on the board?

And sure, I'll be on the board. I like running. I've loved it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so great. Yeah. And city planning, I don't even know where to start with that. Yeah. But will you tell people, like, explain it to me like I'm five kind of concept, like what is city planning and how the heck did you get into that as your career?

Well, so it's not city planting. Okay. Many. Okay. I was like, I see that. You're right. You're right. And I'm saying this as kind of like, that's what many kids especially think, oh, you plant the trees for their city. No, it's city planning. So, uh, it was my career and it's still my life. So when I was in high school, I really liked architecture and it took some drafting classes in high school and I.

Designed a couple of things and so went to college to be an architect. Okay. and I'm from Nebraska, went to the University of Nebraska, like almost every Nebraska kid goes to the University of Nebraska. What city in Nebraska are you from? , I'm from a very small town. It's called Bancroft, a town of 500.

I grew up on a farm. Whoa. It's about, , 65 miles from Omaha. Okay. And it's probably the only city I know in Nebraska. It's probably most and all my, all my relatives are from Omaha area and from there anyway, so I was gonna be an architect, went to school in, in Lincoln. And the program is, is a kind of a six year program back then.

It's been Okay. It's been a while ago, six year program where you'd get your bachelor's in architecture and then they wanted to get, wanted you to get your master's in architecture or planning. Hmm. And so, towards my fourth year. I was okay at architecture, but I was not great at architecture. And so it meant, it was a little bit of struggle trying to come up with creative things and like, I don't think I wanna do this for my whole life.

Mm-hmm. You know, and I'm a little bit of a perfectionist, so that wasn't gonna fit with my personality. And so I, so I had taken a planning class, my, fourth year of school and I'm like, this is it planning. That's how I got into planning. Okay. Okay. So planning is, many parts of a city. So I was, because I was in architecture, I was more into the physical aspects of how a city grows.

There is social planning, you know, how you work with, , homeless and social workers and things like that. Okay. I was in the, in that, in that part. So I got my master's in, community regional planning at the University of Nebraska. Wow. And, , went to work for the city of Cheyenne, Wyoming.

Cheyenne, Wyoming. Wow. That was my first job. And , ironically it is much like Indianapolis. Only 10 times smaller. Yeah. Okay. 'cause it was a city county planning agency and you know, Indianapolis is, the whole county is one. And so I specialized in zoning and so many people know planning as zoning. Okay.

You know, all the land uses are divided up and as people want to change zoning, there's public hearings. So I did that pretty much all of my career in Cheyenne. And then, then moved here to Indianapolis to work for the city of Indianapolis. Okay. And, so worked with zoning at the city of Indianapolis.

And so that was, you know, if anyone's, was involved in that in, in Iiti, they knew me. I. Yeah. And I knew them know, you know, lots of attorneys, knew lots of land developers, many, many neighborhood organizations. And then there's people that would come in off the street to do something. So I, I really liked all that variety.

The, for many years I was the director of the Department of Metropolitan Development in Indianapolis. Yeah. And then worked on all kinds of other project. So we worked on the Downtown Canal. It was finished while I was the director. Oh, that's cool. Uh, thank you. You're you're welcome. It's awesome. It was started when I came, so thank whoever started.

Well, you said otherwise I would never have come here. Yeah. It was started, you know, I, I got to do some design review, like review the design of the mall Of the Circle Center Mall. Okay. Was involved in the discussions about the cultural trail downtown. Cool. Yep. the Department of Metropolitan Development, or DMD, which is what I will say most of the time, owned the land that the Monon is on.

Really? Yeah, we were, that department has the, the ability to, have the most flexibility on land ownership. So we own the land, the parks department, develop the monon and, and then we work together. And that's how we've done the monon. Oh, that's cool. And so for people who don't know what the monon is, the loan on is a rail trail.

So all across America, many old rail lines have turned into trails for walking, running, biking. Exercise, things like that. So the Monon is the, I think the longest one in Indianapolis. Certainly for sure. It goes from probably in the state. No, I think that really the, uh, there's a trail out east, the Cardinal Trail at Cardinal Greenway.

I've never even heard of that. It goes from Richmond to Muncie. That's, that's longer. Whoa. Anyway, so the Monon goes from 10th Street downtown Indianapolis to, um, Sheridan and maybe longer now. Yeah. It keeps going. Yeah. So that's kind of a quick overview of what planning is. Yeah. As a city, does the city decide, hey, we want this percentage of our county to have, be zoned for like retail or like, what are the categories?

That you look at your planning. So first of all, in, in Indiana and, and most states, you have to have a land use plan, be, and before you can have zoning. Okay. Land use plan is the concept about how you want your city to grow. And then the zoning is the law on how, how it can grow. Okay. Yeah. So the plan has, all of the land in Marion County planned, meaning we have residential here, we have commercial here, mixed use here.

We didn't at that time, and you know, it's been a little while since I've been there. We didn't really allocate a certain amount. What you wanted to do as a planner was make sure that, that every area had enough amenities for people to be able to live and work. Mm-hmm. So you could live and work and recreate and all that kind of stuff.

I, I'm gonna describe it best in the downtown. So Indianapolis downtown, if you've been around for a while, has evolved. Yeah. Uh, when I came in in 88, there was lots of office things happening. Lots of office buildings were happening, but there was hardly any retail. The stores were closing back then as blocks and airs and all that was closing.

Oh, yeah. Airs not very many people live downtown. The goal was to have all three. You know, you have a 24 hour downtown, you have people that live here. You have people that, that recreate. Here, you have people that work here, and that's what makes all of the parts of the downtown successful. The restaurants circle, center mall.

Right. You know, as it was. And so slowly that evolved, downtown evolved. We had the offices then, during, a couple of, in institutions, the focus was on Circle Center Mall. Back in the nineties, many, many cities were doing, doing malls. Ours was different. And, I'll brag and I think it was better. So before Circle Center Mall, while it was being planned, I went to Columbus, Ohio.

Okay. Not to, and Columbus was a fun city to go to, but they had a downtown mall that was super successful. If you went to that one, the outside was all one big brick box. Oh yeah, right. Okay. I mean, so like, walking around this big rock was, was not very fun. But you go inside, oh my gosh. There's all this activity and our mall, saved many of the historic buildings. Every single block has some historic facades that were there before that were saved as, the back was demolished. They saved the front. And when, when they built the mall, um. Put those all as part of it. So the goal behind that was to , keep it a pedestrian friendly downtown.

Yeah. I mentioned walking by a bunch of brick walls. No one really likes walking by brick walls, but walking by some storefronts. Mm-hmm. Well that's, you know, there's lots of activity and then the restaurants that are on the streets happen. Mm-hmm. So that all happened. Well then what we have today is there's thousands of people live downtown Indianapolis.

Yeah. I even remember a few years ago, yeah. Relatives from Nebraska come, actually they lived in Kansas City at the time, came out and we went downtown to eat. And they're like, what's going on? Why are all these people down here? Is there something special going on? I go, no, that's just what it is. And so we try to have that in every neighborhood.

you know, certainly in Indianapolis, cars is, is dominated in most of the neighborhoods. Yeah. But you don't wanna be able to shop, you want to be able to work in mm-hmm. All of that. Mm-hmm. So is that what, recruited you here? Was there like, Hey, we have this opportunity to like, revamp our whole downtown, and you're like, okay, that's a project that sounds fun.

Well, that's it. That's also a little bit interesting. Yeah. So, I guess that I lived in, worked in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Yeah. And, At what had, decided I was going to move to a different place that is kind of common with planners, especially out west. Yeah. You know, you move from one city or another to another state, things like that.

Well, I decided I'm only gonna, move to a city with a football team. Okay. And it was a couple of things. I'm from Nebraska. We used to have a good football team, and I love football. I still like football. and so I thought, well, I wanna move to a city with a, a football team, not just for the football team, though.

I thought if, if I'm gonna move to a city that I don't know, which I did not know much about Indianapolis, is they're gonna have all of the other things that I might want in my life. Theater, art. Mm-hmm. Recreation, all that kind of stuff. So I actually interviewed for this job. Had a conference in San Antonio, Texas.

Oh, weird. Literally. I have, I have only had only been through it. I didn't even really know enough. But I started reading about it and the same week I was offered the job here, I was offered a job in Alameda, California. So San Francisco. Whoa. Very different. Very different. But my brother and his family lived there.

And so I was like, oh, what do I do? What do I do? So, so being the planner that I am, I looked at the cost of living. There you go. I looked at the salary I was getting paid. Of course both were less in Indianapolis, but it equaled out. It equaled out, surprisingly. And, the thing that made the difference is the planning office in Indy was on the 21st floor.

The planning office in Alameda was in the basement. And I thought, oh, they must care more about planning. Here than they do. Uh, yeah. And so then I moved here Wow. And wasn't really planning on staying the rest of my life, but, but here we are. It turned out, uh, I love Indianapolis and I love Indiana.

That is so cool. That's crazy too, that your brother lived out in San Francisco and you still ended up here. Well, so I could go mean visit mean I understand why I can go visit him. Yeah. If you live there, it's not the same. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. It's cool. And do you just have one sibling, just a brother, or?

I have two brothers. Two brothers. Okay. That, that one. And, and the other one lives in, in South Dakota, but really across the river from Nebraska. So he still really lives home. Okay. my family likes Indianapolis so much. My parents moved here. They did. Oh. 20 years ago. Uh, my mother is still alive, so still alive.

That's great. Yeah. How old is she? She is, she's 89. 89. An eight 89-year-old who can ride a bike and can, walks, walks every day, and very, very active. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. That is amazing. So where do you fall in the I'm the oldest. I was gonna guess that because I am the oldest of three girls. Yeah. And I can sense like, okay.

The planning, the st you know, I'm like, okay. He's probably the first born. I am, I'm not kind of a typical oldest, however, all, all three of us, the youngest was in high school when I was in high school. We were all three in high school together. Wow. So it's, so youre like back to back b bing. Yeah. Okay. Wow.

Wow. And so does your brother that lived in California still live there? Yeah, he still lives there. Yeah. And, and your mom still lives here. Where does she live? In the city. she lives at, in a neighborhood called Ivy Hills up by Castleton. Okay. Yeah. They, they had a farm that's, uh, when they sold their farm, they thought, where, where should we go? California wasn't really for them.

Yeah. and I'm of the three, I'm probably more nurturing than the other two. And so they, they moved here. We went to the same church for a long time, and, it's a, you know, it's a one story house for older people. They have great neighborhood. My dad passed away about a year ago, but he, he lived to be 89 also.

That's amazing. Yeah. Wow. And farm life. A lot of people in Indiana perhaps can relate to growing up on a farm. I did not, but you know, this area is where I grew up and it was much more rural when I, was born. Yeah. So what was farm life like? What kind of farm? Because I feel like there's so many different, like did you have animals or was it mainly like corn or what, what was your farm like?

It was, yeah, in Nebraska, you either lived on a farm or you, you related to people that lived on a farm. Lived farm. Especially the small town island too. Yeah. Yeah. So we had, we had crops, corn and soybeans, but my dad really liked hogs. Okay. We were like the biggest hog farmer in, in that area. And so that's what we did.

Was a lot of work, but it, kind of in, in the city when we were to the city, if anyone came from a farm, like, oh, we should hire them. 'cause they're gonna, they work hard how work. Yeah. You know how to work. Yeah. And, and we did, I could drive a tractor when I was less than 10 years old, and my grandpa taught me how to do that, and then I could, I could actually run the farm when my parents went on vacation.

And, so it was, it was good. I've shocked that my life turned out the way it is. Did you always just assume you would grow to take over the farm or, no, never. Never. Okay. Okay. Uh, I was I was gonna be an architect, remember? Yeah. I was not gonna live, live on the farm. Uh, one of my brothers did for a long time.

Okay. but I didn't know that I would, I, at the time when I was a kid growing up, I didn't, you didn't even really think about cities. Omaha was the city. and, I, I didn't even know about city planning until I went to college. Yeah. That's to tell you the truth. That's right. Yeah. That's, I mean, um, yeah.

So it was so a small town thing. Is it, just like they say. Everybody knows what you're doing. I was gonna say, your business, I will say, everybody knows your business. There's lots of good to everybody knowing your business. it's like, if, if anything, at one time my car slid off the ice and the neighbor pulled us out and being the stupid teenager was, I didn't tell my parents, but they did.

And I didn't get in trouble. But it was like, stuff like that, you know, you knew you were, you know, you had hundreds of parents looking out for you. Yeah. And you know, everybody knew everybody. There weren't, there weren't cliques or anything like that per se. We also did lots of things in high school.

Like, I played sports. I was gonna say, you could probably play any sport you wanted. Play sports. You're, you're in band, you're in music, you're in plays. You have to do it all. Yeah. How many people in your school, like in your class? So, it's, almost embarrassing. 32 in my class. In high school. In high school.

120 in the school. That's wild. It's wild. And, and 32. Yeah. And, and that, the part of Nebraska we've grew in That's typical. I mean, yeah. I mean, we didn't even have five. So like Indiana, there's classes, we had classes, we were class C out of four. We weren't even the smallest class. Geez. Yeah. I mean, I went to here, I went to Catholic school, St.

Maria ready. And my graduating class, going into high school was 18 people. Oh wow. I mean that was before, so you know that a little bit. That was before high school, but it, I did know because we almost had, I think our grades were like almost pseudo combined with like the grade under us. Right. 'cause there were so few of us.

Right. And it was wild. We had to do sports with another Catholic school 'cause we didn't have enough people to have a sports team. Yeah. So what were sports like then? Like did you, I mean, how do you have enough people to put together a team? I think in those small towns, sports is so much a part of everyone's life that we had a regular football team, 11 man football team.

What we didn't have, so the town that I grew up in, baseball was the thing. The thing, okay. And in Nebraska, , all the schools did not have baseball. We might have been the smallest school in the state with baseball. Okay. And so the only thing, so in the spring was baseball and track. Well, I did track, yeah.

My brothers did baseball and so, so we didn't have cross country because of that. We didn't have wrestling in my school even though some of the other ones did. But, you know, the basketball team went to state when I was in high school. I wasn't on it. But I, you know, that's brave. Uh, the football team was, was okay.

Uh, did you play football? I, I did, I, um, I, not well, but I did, I was the fastest runner on the football team. I bet you, I bet you were. I was the fastest runner on the football team. I bet you were. Yeah. You kind of, kind of, everyone did. Whether you were no good or not. No. You just, but no, my brothers were really good and so, so they started, so, the other interesting thing about small town lifestyle, when I was a freshman in high school, I was in band, had already played in junior high and, on the football team, well, at homecoming we only had band at homecoming.

Okay. So when you were a freshman, you had to stay in your band unit uniform until halftime. Then you could go put your football uniform on. That's what life is like in a small town. That's funny. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And then you go to Nebraska for college. How big was Nebraska at the time? Oh, it was like 20,000.

Yeah. So it's like. That's a big difference. Different, uh, I loved it though. Yeah. I I absolutely loved it. Yeah. you know, the first time you're away from home, which wasn't that big a deal for me. It's only only nine 90 miles from home. But that's not bad. you start, you know, you meet people that are in the same boat.

Yeah. First time we were away from home. you, you, uh, find interests, you know, and, and do stuff. I, I, um, college was great. I did, I didn't do too much running in college, but I played a lot of tennis. I did Okay. A lot of intramural sports. And, sang in a chorus at, at the University of Nebraska.

Ooh. And, um, Laurie, I didn't know that you could sing. Yeah, I can sing, but I'm not gonna sing today. Fine. I'm not gonna s today. and so I was, I was there six years and I, I, I lived there in the summer every year except for one. One summer I decided Tod go home. many of my friends today, they, you know, the long-term friends mm-hmm.

The college friends. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And so you mentioned track in high school, but not cross country, and then in college, no. Running. So when did running, running, come into the picture? probably, when I moved to Indianapolis. Okay. I did run a little bit in, in Wyoming, but just more to stay in shape and, and it's a, it's a stress reliever.

Yeah. And I've always been a stress reliever for me. So when I worked for the city of Indianapolis, one of the deputy directors in the department was a runner, one of the runners that ran every mini Okay. So, and, I am not sure he is still able to, he's quite a bit older than me, but the last one I know he did, he, his family took him in a wheelchair so he could still keep that legacy going.

That's awesome. Yeah, it was exciting. So what he did, so, you know, you're like, what we talk about running right? Because I did run, and this was back in the days when it was on Friday. Yes. And he was on Friday. And so everybody would be around the, it started at the circle. He would go run and he would come back to the office, not to work, but sort of to work, right?

Yeah. And talk about how fun it was. And I said, gee, I want to do that. I, I think I should run. So, so the next year is probably 90 91 or something. I, um, trained with one of those groups downtown and ran the mini and had no idea how I do, 'cause I'd never run that far. I, I remember my first eight mile run thinking, wow, this is a long run.

So, so that's how that started. Okay. And I ran 25 minis, 24 in a row till I got And this is the 500 mini? Yes. Yeah. 24 in a row. Four people who might not be local. I talk about it a lot. Yeah. 'cause you know, you have to meet a lot of people. It's the rite of passage here in Indianapolis, but it's a half marathon and 5K when it started.

It was on a Friday. Did they, has it always gone around the motor Speedway? I'm not, I'm not sure about that. I think it used to end at the Speedway before, actually. You know what, I think I've heard that before. I think it did end at the Speedway. It should be crazy. Every single time I did it, it, it's gone around the track some now it goes a little bit more on the track than it used to.

Used to be a kind of, not quite a full lap. Oh. Like a little blip. That would nice. Yeah. Now it's a lap in the quarter maybe or something. Yeah. It feels like, anyway. A lot of laps. So that's how that started. Okay. Right. And then 24 years in a row. Yeah. Uh, and then, and then, then of course I started doing other runner stuff.

Well, yeah. Okay. And, and I, you know, I sort of found out that I was not a bad runner. Yeah. And, and it was, it was kind of a surprise. ' cause even though I was pretty good in track in high school, if I would've trained as well in high school as I even do today, maybe. Yeah. I wouldn't have been a really good, really good.

Yeah. Um, anyway, so I started, you know, running little races and stuff like that and, and what, how old would you have been when you moved to Indy? Like 30 ish. I was 30. Okay. 30 when I moved here. Yeah. And so your first half marathon, I know we talked about doing math and stuff.

It's hard. It was about 30 how old you were? Two. Okay. You're like 32. 32, okay. Yeah. my best running days were in my forties. Which is so cool because I'm almost there and I'm like, maybe that I'll be the fastest I've ever seen. Oh, no, you can, you can absolutely do it. I don't think there's any magic to it except for keeping running.

Right. But that, but I absolutely, my best is in my forties, my best mini I was 40. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And, and what was your best mini? I did one at one hour and 29 minutes. Woo. And it was, it was a, like I said, I sort of started figuring out that maybe I can do fast. So I'll say the very first one is, oh, I probably should do it under two hours.

And I did, and then the next one was like getting kind of close to like, maybe it was 1 35 or something. I thought, well, maybe I can do that. So I trained, I, I probably did three that were like, 1 31. Oh, be annoying. Oh, those are like so hard. And then, so then I would get, I don't give up. I never give up.

And so I train and train and train and I did one at 1 29 and then many, many at around one 40. That was kind of my, yeah, your sweet spot. Sweet spot. Yeah. Did you ever pace when you do it so many years? No, I haven't. , I've been kind of approached to do that. I, I have a really good friend that has paced, uh, many, like the caramel, yeah.

Okay. So I, I paced the half, half of the caramel one time. but, but no, I haven't and I always run with Pacers. Okay. E especially now if I'm trying to qualify for something. Yeah. Because it takes the pressure off of now looking at my watch every five minutes and thinking, oh, I gotta speed up. I gotta slow down.

So that's kind of why I haven't actually done it, because I thought if I disappointed someone by not keeping the right time, I would be disappointed. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I really haven't. Yeah. you had to have gotten the extra medal? So they do an extra medal for one top 500?

I didn't. So you got one of those the year I did 1 29. Nine, yeah. Okay. But then people started getting faster and, yeah. Way more, way more people. Yeah. That's still pretty cool though. Yeah. That was cool. Yeah. Top 500 and now, I mean, the mini has gotten a little smaller in recent years, but it's still pretty big at one point.

Wasn't at the largest. Yeah. I think it was for several years. I think it was one the largest in the world, or at least the country. The half. I know they used to advertise it that way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 24 in a row. And then what happened when you didn't do it for the first time? I had had a stress fracture in my heel.

Dang. And it was kind of like, oh, should I do it? Or, yeah. And I thought, now that's not really worth it. And so it didn't really bother me. I have, I did one after. Okay. Now I, now I do it with back on my feet. Yes. And we'll talk about that. I'm, yeah. Will. Sure. Yeah. We'll, yeah. So how many for this year? It's mini.

How many minis will it be? So, oh, just probably 26 or 24 7. Okay. So that, all right. Yeah. I, I haven't run that every year. I mean, I've run lots of other half marathons Yes. In different parts of my, which is after, after you break the streak, you're kind of like, okay, well, I broke the streak, so I don't have Exactly.

Take the pressure off. At least you don't feel like you have to do it every year. Right, right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's crazy. I, I mean, over that many mini marathons. Like, do you, are you a Kiss the brick guy? Are you No, no, I'm not that. Okay. So, so many years I was like, by myself. Okay. You know, and, and maybe I knew, you know, would see somebody I, I saw running, you know, there's this guy named Chris that I used to see at the gym, and I'd see him.

Yeah. so, so my, my, uh, kind of funnest thing about running the Minis one year, my name was called on the track. You know how they announce it? Oh. And I'm like, I'm all by myself. I mean, I wasn't by myself. Yeah. Well, I'm like, that's me. That's me. You're like, nobody knows. Nobody knows somebody appreciate this.

Probably nobody knows till now. Right. I just said it. Right. So now I'm not I just, run hard. I always, you know, run hard. I'm a, I run, faster the second half, almost all the time. Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to, I'm really good at that. Get better at that. if I'm, I have, taken back on my feet guys through it, and then it's more of keeping them in control of their run.

So they finish. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's more of finishing now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The experience and everything. Yeah. Like that. after doing your first Indy Mini, at what point did you say, oh, you know, I, I've done half marathons or whatever.

What, at what point did you go for a full marathon? Well, I went for a full marathon without thinking about it, which, which is like, which I saw, this is my normal, this is my normal way to go in life, I guess. So I, I started, you know, friends that were runners, right? Mm-hmm. So I did, uh, the bourbon chase. relay Race in Kentucky.

Okay. And so, if you're familiar with Ragnar Races Yes, I am. I did my first one last year. Okay. This one? Mm-hmm. It is now a Ragnar. Okay. But it was before it was a Ragnar. I didn't even know that. And I think it might have been the first year. Cool. So this, this friend, he said, Hey, we're gonna do this bourbon chase relay race Yeah.

For 30 hours and you want to come down and do it with us? And I said, well, sure, I'll, I'll do it. All right. And I only knew two people out of our team of 12, but, but you get to know 'em all really well. Right. Really fast. so that person got hurt on his first leg. We each run three legs. Yeah.

Over, over. And then all 12 people run three legs. Right. Got hurt on his first one. And I had trained for it. 'cause I'm like, not gonna run the hills of Kentucky without training. Yeah. And so I said I would run, run one of his extra legs and then somebody else did. And so that weekend then I ran close to 20 miles, which is the first time I close to 20 miles.

And I thought, well, I should come back and run the monumental full because I had done most of the, of the halves. Okay. because I did know, Carlton, the founder of the race from work. And so, uh Okay. Because he worked at the Department of Public Works. I worked at Department of Metropolitan Development.

And so we knew each other and we knew we were a runner. Okay. And I thought, you're starting this race. I'm running. I run the half. Yeah. I like, I'll run that. Yeah. And so I did, there was no pressure 'cause just pressure to finish. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so I did. And then, well, I, I thought, well, I should check my time with like Boston qualifying time.

Well, I qualified for Boston. And it was like, oh wow. That, and I didn't even feel that bad. Right. Which people are now hating you. Right, right, right. Like, dang it, these even more, well, they can love me in a second. Yeah. Because I didn't get in. Oh, how, well, because this was back in the days, so like, I still didn't even know about marathons really, per se.

Yeah. I mean, I knew about them, but like, I knew Boston was famous, but I didn't know it was so hard to get into. Yeah. And, this was the way that they did the, um, registration was first come, first serve on one day. Oh. So being the good work employee that I was, shoot, I thought, I'm not gonna do this during work.

I'll do it when I get home about noon. Somebody said, oh, you, you didn't hear the Boston Marathon sold out. I was like, I mean, I was kind of heartbroken. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I didn't get in that year so they can all be happy. I qualified and begin. Oh. Then I decided, oh, well I'm going to qualify. Yeah. So, so then the next.

Monumental. I trained for it. ended up running with some guy from Cincinnati that was, wanted to do Boston, and we did it qualified. Cool. Then I knew how to get in. Got in. You're like, I'm not gonna make that mistake. And ran Boston. And, and what year was your first Boston? Two, uh, 2013. Okay. Which happened to be the year of the bomb.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so that was very, very unique way to start my Boston Marathon. Wow. The day was beautiful. Yeah. The run was beautiful. I did have, my, my spouse and a good friend went to Boston with me and I, I had finished and she was supposed to meet me Really? Where, where the bomb happened. But she got lost somehow, thank God.

And, I was getting my stuff and I heard it. You heard it? I heard the bomb, but I didn't know it was a bomb. What did it sound like? It sounded like fireworks. Okay. And, and you know, there's thousands of people everywhere and they're like, well that's kind of weird. Why? You know, like, I'm only in the middle.

You know, there's lots of people still. Why is there fireworks? Well then the a the, the siren started going and you knew something was wrong. And I didn't even have this, we, this was before my cell phone. I didn't even have a cell phone. she did. So we went, I found her and I, we knew then what had happened and we need to go back, get back to our hotel.

And by the time I got to my hotel, my brother and my mom had called my partner. Yeah. Is he ride? He didn't even know what was going on. And, and, and I was okay. but it was a weird way to start my Boston marathon. Yeah. I don't know if I've ever told you this. My dad was there. Did he run it?

Mm-hmm. That year? Oh yeah. My mom was there too. What was his time? Was we, we were po He, he, he, What was his time that year? I think it was over four hours. I think he was like four 10. Like he had finished and gone and like didn't hear it and so he was out of there. I don't know what way. Oh really? I mean, because my, my time would've been a little faster.

Yeah, you would've been for sure faster, but I, I don't know. Maybe it depends on like the waves and when you Right. It depends on where you go. You know, I, I mean I was just there. Yeah. I just stayed there. You were there. He just, his m is like, I'm done and I'm out. Oh, okay. Like, he's like, almost doesn't even like grab any food.

He just wants to Oh no, I was hanging out kind of, yeah. Which is like the normal thing to do. Yeah. But yeah, so he was gone and I was at a conference in Chicago and I can't remember if it was my husband or my husband's friend calling me and being like, Hey, did you see what happened in Boston? And I hadn't.

And I remember I was like walking to a Portillo's, 'cause I was in Chicago. Yeah. And my, that getting that feeling of like wanting to throw up thinking like something had happened. And so I called my mom and this is, this story to this day makes me laugh because she was at the mall and she was like, well I'm at the finish line store.

I don't see anything happening. And I was like, mom, not that finish line. Like the finish line. Yeah. Because she just didn't really think about it. Right. And so, yeah, she's like, oh, I just talked to him. 'cause the first thing I asked her was, have you talked to dad? Yeah. Yes. And I was like, okay, thank God. But anyway, yeah.

It was, yeah, it was wild. It was time. And I was at the conference and then people started like finding out that my, you know, that my dad was there and they were all asking me and it was just kind of crazy. Yeah. Well we were there then for like four more days. 'cause we were planning, it was kind of a vacation, right?

Yeah. Four. So we were locked, locked down at the hot hotel that night. And. They let us go to a restaurant like right next door. And of course that's what everyone's talking about. Yeah. And then, then the next day we did a couple of , things , , went to Harvard and, you know Yeah. That touristy kind of stuff.

Yeah. Well then the next day started when they were catching the guys. Yeah. So we were there when the guy got caught in the boat and the guy got, yeah. And they killed the other guy. And that was all really, really eerie. did you like sit and watch the news covering? Oh, absolutely. I mean, I was just, I mean, that's all we did that night.

You just sat there and you were like, you just sat there. You're just watching it over, you know, over and over and over. And they didn't know what's going on. Crazy. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. So that, so that's how I started marathons. Geez. That is crazy. Maury, that, that was your first Boston experience.

Yeah. For a lot of others, I'm sure too. Yeah. Oh, oh, I'm sure. I, I met many just run one time. What a weird way to, yeah. Do such an iconic race. Yeah. what was your race experience like before that? Oh, it was, it was, it was good. You know, you know, like I was totally by myself. Really. I know. I didn't know anyone there.

Yeah. you know, we've, wait, wait. You've run Boston, right? Not yet. Not yet. Well, you wait out outta high school and then you run this through these neighborhoods. I didn't try to run fast or anything. Like I said, I qualified for Boston here. Mm-hmm. A couple of times. Right. Well, I wouldn't have, I didn't qualify at Boston.

At Boston. At Boston, yeah. Because I thought, well, I'm already here. Why do I qualify? And it was just so cool to have all those people. I mean, the whole race. There's people cheering you on and you go by this college and everybody has signs and you know, all the girls want you to kiss 'em and all that kind of stuff.

And then. Then at the, you know, there's thousands and thousand of people at the finish. you're with all these people that are of like mind. Oh, we got to Boston. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. So it was, it was very exciting that way. Yeah. But then kind of weird to celebrate 'cause you couldn't really Right.

It was everything but that we missed, I had every experience but the celebration. Yeah. We didn't get to have that per se. Yeah. Yeah. And, you've done Boston now more than once, right? Yeah, I did it again. , That was more of, I had friends that were gonna do it. Yeah. And, that time I qualified in Charlevoix, Michigan.

Oh yeah. You've done Charlevoix, which is a beautiful place. I've never Oh, I, I would totally recommend that. It's a, it's, it's on the lake and it's generally flat except for a bridge. And it was in June I think. But it cool 'cause it's on the lake. A friend and I ran, I, that was my best marathon ever, was this one in Charlotte, four.

Wow. Qualified for Boston for 2018. And th that time I knew, like six people that went Yeah. And, ended up running with Troy, my friend, the whole, the whole time. that was a horrible race experience. It was, it was the year that it rained. And when I say rain stormed, there's, you're running through water in the gutters above your ankles, and the wind was blowing up the street from, from Boston in your face, and it was freezing.

If it was 35 degrees, I would be shocked. There was snow on the ground when we were waiting at that high school. so we did not really talk the whole time. All you did was run. And, and we, we are kind of side by side most of the way. And he actually is a better runner than me and should have been way ahead, but stuck with me.

I didn't even have my good running clothes because I was thinking, oh, we're going to Boston. Why am I going to take a bunch of stuff? I'm gonna take it off. Right. So at my gloves were like, just old gloves. I was gonna throw throwaway. Yeah. But we did it. I didn't stop. That's amazing. But the minute I stopped, I couldn't even lean over.

I mean, that was, everyone was like that. You were so cold. Like I dropped my bag. Yeah. After you picked that up and you're like, well, but all the Boston people, all the nice people, they were like, oh, I picked that up for you. it took me a couple hours to warm up, but then, geez, so that was that experience.

Yeah. That was a crazy year watching that. Yeah. Yeah. People out there, you're like, oh man, that is. Rough. It was rough. It was rough. Yeah. So I could run into any weather now. Right now you're like, anything's better than that. Yeah. Right. Pretty much. So. And you were, we left out a detail of your qualifying for Boston because you were 52 when you qualified the very first one.

Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. I was 60 when I did the Charlotte Boy Wine 60. Yeah. Yeah. Your best marathon. My best marathon. Yeah. Yeah. You can keep running. I told you, you can keep running and just keep running and you'll be fine. Yeah, And so what, what's your best marathon time? Uh, three 20.

Three 20. Yeah. That is. I won't surpass that ever again. I guarantee that the three 20 at age 60. Yeah, I mean like mic drop, it's fine. Like you don't have to surpass that. 'cause that's really impressive. I mean, just doing a marathon at age 60 is impressive. I sort of think that, but you kind of get used to it and well, tell me about it.

I get so immersed in this world, people doing all these crazy things and then I forget how impressive it is to people who have no idea like how far a marathon even is. And so then. Oh yeah. Like my, that good. Reminds you, you're like, oh, my family. They not you. They, I kind of think I'm crazy.

Yeah, yeah. But I, but you know, ever since I started doing those minis mm-hmm. Running is my life basically. Mm-hmm. I run, I run six days a week, six days a week. Almost always, you know, it's rare that I don't run six days a week. And so when I'm on vacation, when I'm with my family, I run. Mm-hmm. So they all know that.

But I remember when they, when running the first half marathon, you ran 13 miles. Yeah. Why would you do that? Why would anyone do that? Right. Yeah. And then, and then the Boston was so famous, you know, everybody. Oh wow. You run Boston. Yeah. Run Boston. And, you know, you, you have your little jacket. I'm sure your dad has his jacket.

He does. Yep. Yep. Everybody still has it. Yep. Yep. so is that, when people are not typically surprised when they find out I'm a runner? but often, yeah. you know, I'm over 60 and they're like, you're run, you're a runner. You're a runner. Yeah. And then, well, you know, do you run like five Ks? Oh, I'll, I'll tell, I'll tell you this.

So I run 3 1 7 races now for some. Yeah. Which is a really fun thing to do in the summer here. You know, they're all 5K races. There's five of 'em, right? Well, they're 3.17 miles. Be three. Clear 0.1. I do tell people that because that irritates some people for 3.17. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was doing one this, this last summer, and I think I had.

I'm New York. I had a marathon shirt on, right? And, and this, this woman comes up to me and she goes, why are you running this 5K? You can run a marathon? And I said, it's just as fun to run a 5K as it is to marathon. So it's even people, even people that are runners, are surprised to do different things like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Or when you say, like, for me, running a 5K is harder than running a marathon or a half marathon because of the speed. If you're racing it, like if you're trying to go at 5K pace, for me that is harder because you go from like zero to wanting to die immediately and like wanting to die the whole time.

Versus marathoning it takes a while and then you get there and it's hard too, but. Just a different part. Absolutely. Ali. For me, it's the monumental mile. There you go. The the first one I did of that, I was like, this is harder than a marathon. I've never, so I've never raced the mile because I'm too scared.

My gosh. It probably wouldn't be so bad if I didn't care. Yeah, that's, I mean, I know if I didn't care, it'd be fine. Yes. Then, oh, I need to do a good time. Right. And it's only for me. It really is. It's just only for me. My times are only for me. Yes. Yeah. So like that first one I did, I don't even remember what the time was, but I just remember thinking, it's just awful.

It took me almost as long to recover from the mile as it does from a half mile. I mean, it's so crazy. Yeah. You think about that, but it's true. Yeah. It's fun. Yeah. And so at what point during this journey did you find Indy runners? Because you were part of Indy Runners or still perhaps are, or what, what groups did you run with?

Okay, so, I'm a member of ns. Yep. Downtown. Yep. So that was the first training groups that I, I did with. Okay. So I did, did theirs for a couple of years. Indy Runners I am a member of Indy Runners, but I only started doing that because other people did. Yeah. So that really wasn't an impetus for me in any of this.

Okay. Back on my feet really was was the epic. Let's talk about that. So we we'll do the back on my feet thing then. Yeah. Yeah. So, when I first started running, I was a evening runner after work. Okay. And, you know, and that most people are, you know, after work done. Yeah. Well, then when I started getting more, um, responsibility at DMD, it's like, oh, I'd have something at night and then I couldn't run, and then that was messed up.

my schedule. Yeah. Like, that's not gonna work, but that's not gonna work. So I started running in the morning. And I also already went to work at seven. So I'd get up early and go to NS and run and do all that. And so then sometimes I'd be running downtown and I'd see this group of people running, and then you'd start going to races like I remember Drumstick Dash.

Mm-hmm. You'd hear about Back On My Feet. Mm-hmm. And so I'm the kind of guy look up what's back on my feet. And it is a national running organization that started out as running with homeless people. And there's chapters in many cities and we have had a chapter here in Indianapolis for 14 years. And so I, I saw that back in my view.

Well, vol, it's volunteer. Yeah. I'm a volunteer and so, and I'm a, person who likes to volunteer to give my talents to other people. Mm-hmm. So I thought I'll volunteer with this group 'cause I can run. Yeah. We run at 5 45 in the morning. Mm-hmm. Oh, well that even doesn't even change my schedule. And so, um, I started that 13 years ago.

Wow. Yeah. And we run, there's three teams in Indianapolis. One at Wheeler Mission, right downtown Delaware and New York. One at Pathways , just north of downtown and one at Progress House Southeast of downtown. .

This episode is brought to you by Bitch Sticks bitch. Six is a self-care brand that cares about people, communities, and the world. They're more than just a balm. It's a call to action to transform a quote bad word, into a force for good. Each November they give thousands of dollars, not just in product, but actual monetary support to support organizations that support survivors of domestic abuse or sexual assault.

They also happen to be an Indiana company. They're women owned, and while they're a small business, they're in over 5,000 stores nationwide. We will be featuring Bitch Sticks at our upcoming Indie Mini event. They will have products available to try in the goodie bags that everybody gets, and they will also have a table selling product at the event.

So make sure you don't miss out, but if you're not gonna be there and you wanna give them a try, just head to their website. It is bitch Sticks, B-I-T-C-H-S-T-I x.com and you can use code Allie, B-A-L-L-Y-B for 20% off your order. Thank you bitch sticks for supporting this podcast and our upcoming event.

IMG_8176: And we run, there's three teams in Indianapolis. One at Wheeler Mission, right downtown Delaware and New York. One at Pathways , just north of downtown and one at Progress House Southeast of downtown. And Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And then, on Saturdays several guys wanna like, do half marathons.

Several have done the, the monumental half. A couple have done monumental full, so Cool. there's some training for the mini, so, so anyone that's doing that right now will, will run on Saturdays. Mm-hmm. And so the idea behind it, the founder in Philadelphia was running past a mission in Philadelphia for many years and run past, but then the guy started, seeing her regular US and cheering her on, and then she started, well you guys should run.

So she started this program and the idea is many of these guys have, substance abuse issues. Certainly running helps you with that. Yeah. But it's also with the volunteer part. You know, having a social network of people that you know, that have regular jobs, that may be different than what you are.

So those two things together are what make back on my feet work. Yeah. And then the staff, there is staff. We have one staff here. There's that. So they, uh, organize, classes. So how to, how to manage your finances, how do you do your resume? And so there's volunteers that do that thing. Mm-hmm. So the real goal is to get back on your feet.

Yeah. The goal isn't to run a half marathon. The goal is to get a job and get a place to live. Yeah. Yep. And so I've been doing that for a long time and it's, it's very, very fulfilling. certainly the guys get a lot out of it, but the volunteers get a lot out of it too. Yeah. Yeah. I had a few, and so many of my friends are from that group.

Yeah. Okay. Honestly, and that's how Yeah. I've been involved in some of this other stuff. Yeah. So I've had, , Jim Patton on this podcast. And Jim was in back of my feet. Yep. And I knew him very well. I know him very well. Yeah. and he was the, um, pastor's not the right word.

What's the word for somebody at the, we, like at the wedding for my sister's wedding, he was the officiant at my sister's wedding. That's how I met him. Oh, that's, that's crazy. That's really cool. So yeah. Yeah. So I, I knew him from back in my feet. We used to have a coffee, , what was he t at my niece's wedding.

I have to talk to him about that. You'll have to trade notes or whatever. Yeah. Really. Anyway, yeah. And then Timmy Howard and Wes Doty have both been on this podcast and their stories are on the other side, not the volunteering, but being, addicts and how running helped them, get through that, which is just crazy.

But what a cool organization. Oh yeah. So both of those guys I know very, very well. I bet Timmy works at ns, right? Of course. Yep. Yep. And, and so I see him all of the time. Oh, lucky. He and his wife, you know, photograph lots of stuff. Race. And then Wes he was from Pathways. Yep. Which really is right up the street from me.

Okay. He, he helped some of my neighbors that are, they're senior citizens with their, their yards and their house and stuff. And then I, I worked, worked at the Indianapolis Neighborhood Resource Center after the City of Indianapolis. Okay. And there's a program there called Public Allies. Okay. And it helps train people to work in the not-for-profit.

Interesting. West did that program. It's a year long program. That's cool. And so I got to know him really well through That's, that's really cool. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I love that. I actually, I. I saw the founder of Back On My Feet Speak here. Really? And it must have been like right when they, started the chapter.

Yeah. But it was at the JW Marriott. There was an event, I don't know how I got involved to be there. I forget. It was a breakfast for back on my feet. Okay. I used to be, was there hundreds of people go to that? Yeah. It was like a huge event. Yeah. Right. It was a fundraiser for the Yeah. It might have been when I did a, I did a one year stint in economic development.

I ever told you that. Uh, but I worked for what was developed Indy at the time, and it's now part of the Chamber of Commerce. Yeah. And so I worked there for a year. That's probably why I was there. I bet. Probably, yeah. Yeah. Which was kind of, it was interesting. It was such a cool experience. I got to go to Brazil as like with the city and that was fun.

Oh wow. Wow. But yeah, very short, like purview into city stuff. I feel like I would could develop Indy people, I'm sure. Yeah. We probably small world. Yeah, I know. We should probably talk about that. And I was probably at that breakfast. You probably were right. Yeah. And I just remember thinking, what a cool concept.

Did you wear sneakers? So that was part of the deal. I think I did, because I have a picture. I did, you're supposed to dress up, but wear tennis shoes. I can picture a picture of myself. Shoes. Yeah. Uh, wearing, I had a pencil skirt, which is crazy to think. I used to wear pencil skirts to wear. Yeah. but, and tennis shoes.

Yeah, I did. Yeah. That's so funny to think about. Right. Totally forgot that all ended with the pandemic, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so yeah, what a cool organization to be involved, with. And then you talk about volunteering. Obviously you're a part of the board for beyond monumental. And we have this monumental kids movement that's such a big part of our organization.

And then you're on a couple other boards. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So you really, you know, thank you for giving back so much to the community. That's really cool. You're welcome. It's part of my life. I have an aunt and uncle that volunteered and they were like, mentors to me in my mind. Right? Oh, you guys are doing all this cool stuff.

So, so I do that. Yeah. That's really cool. So you mentioned Monumental Kids Movement. I'll, talk about that first. You should. You should. Yeah. So, yeah, I volunteered for that race and, so, you've talked about it, people, you people don't know. I always assume people don't know and you just repeat it, so they, yeah.

So Monumental Kids movement is the, I guess I'm gonna call it the non-for-profit arm of Beyond Monumental. So yeah, kind of a whole purpose, but we, yeah. Yeah. So when you, when you, , pay your feet, uh, to run your race, a lot of money goes to help kids in Indianapolis become runners or just get.

Physically active. Yes. Yes. So they do a race, we do a race with them. Mm-hmm. And so I volunteered at that race. And you, I don't even know the age group, but there's some little kids Yeah. To junior high maybe. Something like that. Yeah, that sounds right. And seeing all these kids run a race and the very last one they did was finished it, at the 50 yard line of Lucas Oil Stadium.

So Good. And seeing the, the looks on these kids' faces makes volunteering worth at every I can agree more. So I love that. Yes. And then, and then we're beyond Monumentals helping these kids be active. Mm-hmm. You know, maybe they'll become runner, maybe they won't. Right. But they know what it's like, but they're learning how to train for something kind of like back on my feet.

They're learning how to do these types of things that'll help with their life. Right, right. Yeah. And the parents are there too. Yeah. Which is fine. The parents are very involved, so that's all good. Yeah. Yeah. , So, um, on two other boards. One is, uh, tangram and it's an organization that works with people that have disabilities.

Mm-hmm. And that provides staff like disabilities where you might need somebody, living with you basically. Okay. And so I've been on that, for several years. I'm in my last year there. And I knew about it from, from working at, at the city because I had two really good friends that were on the board.

Okay. but in from different places. One was a friend that actually worked for the city. One was a runner at back on my feet. And so apparently their, their deal was when you go up the board, you're supposed to find , new members for the board. Oh yeah. They both asked me. And so, yeah. And I said, yeah, I do that.

I live with a disabled person. I know what it's all about. and so they're doing. Very important things. Yeah. For, a part of a society that many people don't think about every day. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It really makes me think about, how like accessibility for buildings and accessibility for just sidewalks when I'm running.

Right. If there is a pole in the middle of the sidewalk, I was think, oh, this is if you were blind. Right. This would be so bad. And so, as we change our, our physical world, we continually need to think about those Yes. About those people. Because maybe it's not a majority. Certainly it's, it's not. But if you are the one person in a wheelchair and you can't get across the street or in a building, we all should care about that.

Yeah. We all should care about that. Yeah. So that, that's kind of what tanwin's about. then you want me to talk about the Damian Center ? Yeah.

So, I, I have a husband. Yes. He's from Cheyenne, Wyoming, from Cheyenne.

I was gonna ask how you met. , We met in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Cheyenne, Wyoming. , His best friend in college is from Indianapolis, Indiana. So there was a little bit of that when we came here. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. So, uh, I lived in Cheyenne six years. I met him the very last year I lived there.

Okay. When I was already looking for jobs. Okay. I'm going, I'm gonna move. And how did you meet? I, I swam at the Y at the time. Okay. All the time. And he was a Rodriguez instructor. and it was Cheyenne's very small. And I was like, I kind of asked about who's this guy? And, and some of my friends said, oh, oh, we don't know.

And then, then they figured, oh, that's Sam, that's Sam, he's, he's a dancer. He was a professional dancer. Professional dancer. Yeah. and they said, yeah, he, um, just moved back from Utah. He lived in Utah. And so we, there was a, a dance company came , to Cheyenne. You know, like they come, they only had like one night shows, right?

Yeah. And I said, I, I need to go to that. 'cause he's a dancer basically. Yeah. So I got somebody that I work with Ruth to go with me. And it was the Indianapolis Ballet. Sam always reminds me of this. It was the Indianapolis Ballet, all these Indianapolis things were pointing me down. That's so crazy. And so what, he's not there.

And if, if I'm talking too long, shut me up. Right? No, this is great. Okay. So then. Well, sort of disappointed, but I liked the ballet. That was fine. Then we went out to a hotel bar, which is the only bar where gay people went in Cheyenne. Okay. And, , she and I had a drink and he comes in with another guy, damnit Tim, I already knew.

And I'm like, oh man, he's already going out with, with him. And turned out he wasn't, they were just friends. But I, I'm kind of quiet even though people don't think I really am. I'm very quiet. Yeah. so Ruth says to Sam, Maury wants to go out with you. Thank you, Ruth. Perfect. And we did. Oh. And that was 38 years ago.

38 years we've been together ever since he had just got a new job in Cheyenne. Mm-hmm. He and, and we are of the generation where you stay in jobs for a little while. He didn't wanna like be a job hopper. Right, right. So he is gonna stay in Cheyenne for a year and then come out to Indianapolis.

Okay. But he helped me move and we stayed at Tim and Maureen's house, his friend, and, Tim says, oh, we have a job at, at our office. He borrowed Tim's suit, went and got that interviewed, got the job, came back two weeks later, and he has lived here ever since anyway. Wow. So then, that was in, that was 88.

Okay. We've been here since 88 and, 92 he was diagnosed with AIDS and, he's still alive today. So it's, that is a good thing. Yeah. One of the reasons he's still alive is 'cause he has such a good support group. And part of that is from the Damian Center. Yes. And the Damian Center was created in, i, I wanna say 88 89.

Okay. To serve people with aids. And for those who don't remember, you didn't live very long. When you had AIDS in 88 and 89, it was more of help, Mostly men. Okay. Yeah. Die. so after we found all this out with Sam, he started going to the Damien Center. It was just a few blocks from us at the time, he ultimately, got on some medicine that made him healthy again. So he, he worked for a while, but then he started volunteering at the Damian Center. He helped start their food pantry. Oh, cool. Wow. 'cause many people with diseases like that don't have the resources to get food. Even so he volunteered that till the pandemic.

He was on the board for eight years. coincidentally the city works with the Damian Center because there's federal funds. Mm. One is called hopwa Housing Opportunities for Persons with aids, and then there's some other federal funds that help people with aids. Yeah. So, after I left the city, they asked me to be on the board.

'cause I knew that part of it. Yeah. They all knew Sam. You know, I, I knew lots about it. And, a couple years after that, this is, I'm in my ninth year, I think, and a couple years after we hired a new executive director who, has helped the agency grow. So going from an AIDS service organization only.

it is now a community health center, basically. Oh, it's, it's a, I didn't realize that. Yeah, it's, it's all been in the last, basically the last five years kind. Okay. May, maybe a few more than that, but you know, if you, if you're going to a center, ' cause you're ill and you, you might need medicine.

So we have a pharmacy. Mm. Now we have doctors, uh, counseling, all of that kind of stuff. and it, it has grown so much that we've are building a new building. Wow. And , it will open, , hopefully in April. So hopefully it'll open in April. That's so exciting. Next month I've been very involved in the building committee.

I bet. Given my, his history. Yeah. They're like marking up planning and zoning and so I, yeah, I've been in, I've seen the building about 20 times. It's Wow, it's beautiful. It's on Washington Street downtown. But that new building will be a full health center. That's so amazing. Even have dental care and, you know, they provide lunches for people.

The food pantry is gonna be huge and geez. So that's, that's my work with the Damien Center. Look at all that. I mean, that's, I mean that with beyond and with Tangram, that's so incredible to do all those things. You're gonna, you're inspiring me to just do more with the community.

It's, thank you. Do more, do more. We can all do more. We can all do more. We can all do more. Well, I, I encourage runners who listen to this, who've never volunteered at a race to volunteer. Right. Because I never had volunteered at a race until joining the board beyond monumental, which is almost embarrassing to admit because of all the races I had done.

You just take the volunteers for granted and you don't really know. Logistics about where they come from, but literally anybody can volunteer. So you're right. And, and, and we need volunteer. Right. All time the back of my feet needs volunteers. There you go. Certainly. I probably did. I did a couple water stops, which is, and I'll be, I'll be true about this.

I don't like volunteer water stops. I could understand why it's so hard. It's, it's usually why I did caramel once. Oh. It was so cold. I was like freezing. Oh no. Yeah. And, and so that's part of it. But then the other part of it is I wanna be running. I, yeah. I'd much rather run Yes. Run than, than do the water stuff.

Yes. But yeah, the volunteers are what make it, you know, and Yeah. When you, I'm sure you do what I do, you know, thank everyone that's volunteering. Yeah, absolutely. Because they are giving their time and they're giving more time than we are. Right. You know, they're, you know, they're. Starting from the very beginning of it.

Say if it's a marathon. Yeah. You know, there's people like six hours, you know. Yeah. There's out there a lot of time where we might be four, three or four hours. Right, right. But yeah, volunteering I think is very, I think that could be harder than just running, because I mean, Ashley Haynes and I did the Monumental Kids Movement.

We, not last year, but the year before did a wa the water stop at the finish. Yeah. And I, that was the first time I'd ever done a water station. And I just remembered being like, this is like a sport. I mean, filling, stacking, organizing, moving cups, like, it just was wild to me. I was like, wow, I have a deeper appreciation for all race volunteers now.

Yeah. Yeah. So, Sam and his disability that you mentioned, was that, is that coincide with his AIDS diagnosis? Yes, it's all related. All related. Okay. Yeah, that's that. When we met, he was a dancer. He was a runner. He was actually a, a much better runner than me. Yeah. Wow. Um, and then, , there are a number of, side diseases or side diseases, I guess I say that you get, yeah.

Interesting. And one is the initials are CMV. And I have no idea what CMV actually stands for, stands for, but it's, uh, it, it affects your eyes. And so some people ha , you know, go blind, which he did. Okay. but it was a number of years I bet it took, 12 to 15 years before he told him, went blind, lost his eyesight in one eye, and then, and then eventually lost it in the other eye about, about seven years ago.

Wow. And, but he's, he's a very strong person, and a very, very positive person. And he's still living life, I take him to the gym once a week, oh, he is also had a hip replacement and a, a femur replacement, all because of things that related to this.

And so he is, he's not, he doesn't look physically very able to do things. Yeah. But he will still do things. Yeah. So, so anyone, no matter where you are, can still do stuff. Right. And, and when you think about how hard your run is. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. Right. And he's a so somebody that's blind, that goes to Ns, pretty much everyone knows who he is.

Yeah. And so it is like, it's, it's kind of a, a cool thing to say. Yeah. People come and talk to him. It's so cool. Yeah. Right. That they know. So what will he do while he's at the gym with you? Oh, he has that trainer. Okay. A trainer will, yeah. Yeah. He can't be by himself per se. And so he has said over, over the years by three or four different trainers and The idea really for him is to be able to get out of a chair. Yeah. And not fall over it. It's at that point. And so, you know, she does that kind of stuff to keep his legs strong and keep his arms strong and, and a lot of it to keep his mental Yeah. It's for him just doing something normal. I could do something, I can, I can go out.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's where we are, but we have very supportive families, you know, so other people Yeah. Come and help. Wow, that's a lot. Yeah. That's a lot That's incredible that he's lived that long Oh yeah. I will say I, I would never, I wouldn't have guess. I didn't know that. I didn't think that.

Honestly, when he first was first diagnosed, the doctor said two years, said 92. I didn't think he lived to be 35 and then 40, he's 65. He's like, ah, it's amazing. That's amazing. And it didn't sit around, I mean, yeah. I mean, yeah. No wonder you think about accessibility and around the city you're thinking about, yeah.

Somebody who's blind's not gonna know that this is here. 'cause it makes no sense that it's here. And does he walk? well, so, but , when he lost eyesight in one eye, there's a, an organization called the National Federation for the Blind, and they have an Indiana chapter.

Okay. So we had, so he contacted them and got involved with them. It's, they have meetings and stuff. Well, they, they have a guy named Ron who coincidentally, I think he still does, he owned the, snack bar at the city county building. Yeah. Now I didn't know who he was. Yeah. But, but Ron came and taught him how to walk with the white cane and would take him out and do that.

So, so he could do that. Yeah. now with the, uh, with the hip and stuff, he does walk with the walker in the house. Okay. He can walk by himself. but to go outside, it's with me. Yeah. it just usually is with me. He usually won't go out without Yeah. Without me. Yeah. But he, he can walk. And you said supportive families, not just for obviously the disability side of things, but I picture Nebraska and Wyoming and Indiana not as very accepting places.

Yeah. It's kind of, kind of, Coincidentally, a week ago Sunday, we talked about our coming out story to our church. Did you We go to a church that's, that's a Lutheran church that is very welcoming and so we told our story and, , both of us never thought we would come out to anyone per se. Yeah, yeah.

First was just coming out to other gay people and that's fine. That's the way it is. Yeah. We didn't come out to our families till Sam was sick and we had to then Yeah. You know, you can't let 'em guess that. Yeah. He went home and told his parents, his mom, his dad had already passed away and he's from a family of nine and they all lived there.

Super supportive. I had to, I ended up writing my family a letter that they still lived in Nebraska at the time and I was working and it was, I didn't know how they react anyway. they were fine. Yeah. And in their case it was, I more of, I, I believe that they thought it was a choice till I told them that it wasn't a choice.

'cause it is not a choice. Something I knew at five years old, I didn't know what it was. Yeah. But I absolutely, both of us have known since childhood and they said, oh, we know that you wouldn't choose something like that. And so they're fine. Like I said, they moved here. Yeah. And so we had, like, I have two brothers and the families, we have nieces and nephews that only know us together.

Yeah. Right. You know, we've been together so long. Yeah. And yeah, they're, they're, our families are, are fantastic. And, , even our extended families, cousins, aunts and uncles. Yeah. They all know they're, we have had very little negative experiences in our life. , Very lucky. That's not the way it always is.

Yeah. Right. But very lucky. And, but I will also say there's places I probably wouldn't go, you know? Yeah. well, I think about you chose between San Francisco and Indianapolis to live initially too. Like thinking about that as a gay man, you know, that also is interesting just to think like Indy back then.

It's a lot better now, but I just think it is. But, so it's what is interesting. Being gay had nothing to do with where I wanted to move to, to move. Yeah. It's just, just, it was just one part of me. Sure. You know, I moved to be a city planner. Yeah. I didn't move to a, to be in a gay life. You know? Yeah, yeah. So, so yeah, it's probably ignorant for me to say, isn't it then?

No, I, I wouldn't say that. Okay. I mean, I remember going to the very first Pride downtown Indianapolis, and there were people, there were people, that were, uh, you know, heckling, I guess, you know how they are. Yeah. Back then, there were probably, I wouldn't say as many as there were in Pride, but Yeah.

There, you know, you kind of felt kind of scary. I sang in the Indianapolis Men's Chorus back then, which is the Gay Men's Chorus, and I sang in that for eight years. And we sang in the Circle, and these guys, people, I, I guess it's the men and women, sang, oh, you know, God's gonna send you to hell. And, you know, God made me just like he made everyone else.

Yeah. You know, and he's not, Things have changed a lot. We are married. I mean, we literally got married. Who would've thought we would never have thought, thought that you were gonna get married. Married. We actually got married in San Francisco before you could get married here. Here.

Yeah. And it was, it was, that was a weird thing so my whole family was gonna go see to my brother's family for New Year's. Okay. And, we were coming from different places, parts, different parts of the country. And, and our friends got married and they said, oh, it's, it's a, and they had gone to some other state too, 'cause you couldn't get married here.

They said, oh, it's a big tax break. And I said, oh, see, should we get married? And that was what it was. So then I, then I told everyone, oh, I think we're gonna get married while, while we're out there. So we went San Francisco City Hall. Like I actually had a person officiate from out there. My, my whole family went, they kind of made a big deal about it.

Not a terribly big deal, but we didn't want 'em to. And so that's how we got married. And, and I will say the tax break didn't work out, but, but everything else was fine. Yeah. That's, that's funny. I got a wedding ring out of the deal. Yeah, no, you did. Oh man. Yeah. And how long have you been married now?

We're in our 11th year. 11th year. We're in our 12th year. It'll be 12 year this. Okay. Yeah. But 38 years together, yeah. Okay. So now I'm gonna segue to talk about Fox Hollow Farm. Can we talk about that? You moved here in 1990. 88. 88, sorry. Yeah. 88. And then why was I thinking early nineties? Because that's when Fox Hollow happened, because that's when it happened.

Yeah. I watched this morning and I'm like, what? I knew that I, you know, it's right off the Mona on this farm. Right. But I, I would love to hear like you were in it. We were, we kind of, I was say, we were sort of, sort of in it. we do live downtown. if you have seen that documentary, Fox Hollow Murders, And if you haven't seen it, I would recommend it. Go watch it. the only reason I watched it was because the guy that cuts my hair, who is straight said, oh, you should watch this. 'cause he knew where I lived. Yeah. Anyway, so we live one block from the main bar where people got picked up. We probably should set what this is.

We should, because No, I'm like so into it, right. And yeah. So, so back in the nineties there were, uh, gay men coming up missing most of them from a bar called Our Place. And like the F-B-F-B-I was involved and there were posters on the bars and stuff, and no one was knowing what happened. And so somebody, it was in Westfield. Yeah. I think that's where Fox Hollow Farm is. Yes. Yeah. So the Hamilton County Sheriff, I think mm-hmm. Said, oh, I got, picked up by somebody and they tried to kill me. Mm-hmm. And then they found out who that guy was. And Fox Hollow Farms is in Westfield, and it was a big acreage and a wealthy person who ended up picking up these gay men and killing them somehow.

And there's thousands of bones on the property, so they found them in the nineties. Crazy. So that's most, I remember the story about, there were people missing. I remember the story about him being caught. Well, he wasn't caught. Right. I took that back about knowing it was who, who was. Yeah. And, and the bones being found.

So we were, so we were a couple and so, and, and we're a couple that we, we rarely did stuff by ourselves. So, so I think aside from one person that I saw in this documentary Yeah. Everyone else was a single person who got picked up. Yeah. Right. So us to go out and you wouldn't have been a target.

We wouldn't have been a target and we wouldn't even really be thinking about it. 'cause it wasn't even really just us. We'd be with friends, you know? Right. Yeah. And did you go to our place? Oh yeah. It's like down the street, right? I mean, not, not a lot. We were in our thirties. We were like, well, that's what I thought.

You're 30. You're not like hitting the bars all the time anymore. Were, but I mean, we did, especially in the summer, because that's when I think it happened. 'cause his wife was gone in the summer. But we had a, a really good friends next door that one of them was single at the time and he remembers the guy, the murderer, seeing him at the bars. And he also remembers some of his. People that he knew came up missing. Yeah. And so, so it was, it's really more, as much scary now to think about it as it was then. that documentary leaves so many questions, so many, yeah. It, it really talks about how could one person do the, by themselves. And it certainly implies that there's other people involved, and maybe they're in the documentary, Uhhuh Uhhuh.

Um, but it, tells a lot about how people felt about the gay community. Yes, it does. In the nineties, because it was not a priority to find this person who did the murders, who ended up committing suicide without ever being interviewed by any police department, which is just, which, you know, now one person was missing.

Right. Well. Let's put this way, we hear about some people that go missing. Right. I, I know there's lots of people go missing and we don't hear about That's true. But you know, then there's lots of, oh, we gotta interview people and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. the closest thing that I ever remembered to that is before I met Sam and I Denver, was the place that you went out.

And I have, my best friend from college lived in Denver. Okay. He was only 90 miles from Cheyenne. And I remember the first time I went to a bar, I gave a bar and he said, we need to stay in the middle 'cause they're bombing the bar. And so that's the only thing I've ever experienced with, oh, they might bomb the bar 'cause we're in here.

You know, that kind of a thing. Yeah. that was in the early eighties. Yeah. yeah. Well, what is the documentary's available on Hulu and Disney Plus? So, like we said, if you have not watched that, go watch it. And where I live in Carmel, the Fox Hollow Farm still stands and it's five miles from my house.

And when I run on the Monon, I run by it all the time. I had no idea. I knew that it was a creepy house, like something had happened there. Yeah. But I didn't know the extent of what had happened there. And they said in the documentary, it's the largest collection of human remains unidentified outside of September 11th.

I know. That's that's amazing to me. I was like, are you kidding me In Indianapolis. Right. Of all these, and they haven't, I mean, I think more is happening now. I It should because yes. I knew it was on the Mona too, only 'cause some other friends told me. Right. Hey, you, you've been by that place. And this is, this was a couple years ago.

And I said, really? 'cause I bike up there. Yeah. And well, now I know exactly what now. Course now I'll go by it. And another Joe, the, the guy that knew him, he has a good friend that lives across, across the creek from there. And she didn't live there at the time. Yeah. However, she knows someone that That still lives there. That lived across the creek when it happened. And there apparently were some like flies or something that are usually around, dead animals. For two years they had them while this was happening. They didn't know about this. Oh, that's so creepy. So there's lots of creepy things.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so now let's hope that never happens again. Well, I feel like it can't now. I mean, now they would care. Like the sheriff's department didn't care at all. Right. I don't even think it wasn't a priority. They didn't even, like, they didn't care until a guy literally came in and was like, somebody tried to murder me.

Right, right. Or, and the skeleton. Anyway, we won't give it all away, but like Yeah. Right. Watch it. Watch it. Yeah. It's totally worth it. Yeah. And you mentioned biking. We didn't even talk about all your biking stuff. Oh yeah, we're running out of time. But you've done some big bike races too, not just running races.

Yeah. Not just, and are they not a races? Not races. Not races. I, I, I, yeah. I can't race, I can't compete in everything. Yeah. But you've done some long bike bikes. Yeah. That was everything I do. I shouldn't say everything, but many things just kind of fall into it. Yeah. So who in, who roped you into biking far?

Well, so a, a really good friend, was a biker, but he actually has, he lived here for a while and has lived in other parts of the country, , and lives in Baltimore now. Okay. But he comes and sees us like every other year and, and stays for like a couple weeks. And, and somehow we got talking about biking and he, and Oh, I know it, it all came about is that the rag bar race is the big, there's, it's a, it's a, a ride across Iowa.

Okay. And it's a long. I think it's the longest, or at least the biggest bicycle ride in the country. Thousands and thousands of people, ride for a week across Iowa. They put their, their bike in the Missouri River at the beginning and then Miss Mississippi at the end. And I'm like, oh, I won't, I'm gonna do that sometimes.

And so I'm back in my feet, friends have done it. Oh, and, and, Steve goes, wow, that's too much for me. And it probably is, it's probably too much for me. Too many people, right? Yeah. He goes, but, uh, hey, we could do this other bike ride, just you and me, right? And I, I'm like, well, sure, let's do it. And so we planned for a year.

And so our fir our first one was, called the Allegheny Passage. It's the Allegheny passage through Pennsylvania mostly. And then the CNO, uh, canal Trail from, the end of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, I believe, down to dc Geez. It's a, it's a rail trail. in the mountains.

And yeah, we live in this flat, Baltimore's flat too. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought, well, that's gonna be too much. But we read about it and since it's a realtor, and it was only 3% grade or something. Okay. So we, drove out to Baltimore. We drove to Pittsburgh, took a week and biked this Allegheny passage in c you know, railroad that's stayed and little cool Airbnbs.

It's a, it's aloo, it's an economic development thing for these small towns. Uh, so we did that and then, oh, we had so much fun that we then did the Natchez Parkway, which is from Nashville to Natchez, uh, Mississippi and it's Natchez and was on flat. No, that was not, that was not flat. That was, uh, it was, it was fun.

But Natchez Trace was a Native American Trading path from Nashville Natch just to Nashville. And the federal government created a national park along it. So it's this narrow, when I say narrow, you can't, it's probably miles, but yeah, narrow park all the way down. And they have a parkway, a highway through it.

But the park, the speed limit's 55 or something. No trucks, all that can be is cars and campers, right? Yeah. And so many bikers do that. So we did that. Wow. then we did the Katy Trail, and that's kind of a famous one. Once you start become biker, it's a trail all the way across Missouri, along the Missouri River.

We did that. And then I took my nephew on one in Nebraska and my, and he's an adult. He was an adult. I said it was kind of like, Hey, you want to do this Cowboy trail? So Cowboy Trail is a rail trail in western Nebraska, so it's out in what's called the Sandhill. So it's, um. Not desert like, but there's no tree.

Yeah. So we, so we did that. And so those are the, my main, my bike rides and I would love to do some more. but yeah, that, that you have to take a lot of planning, a lot of time Uhhuh. Yeah. And, and you mentioned the hills in, in Tennessee, that, that was, the hills were hard. That would be really tough. That was harder than running.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You said at the beginning your mom still rides a bike. Yeah. Where does she ride? Does she ride on like the cultural trail or? No, she's in Castleton. So where does she go? Rides ride bike. She rides it in her neighborhood now. Okay. But uh, she has a biked, Night ride with me several times.

Oh yeah. Um, probably, probably she wouldn't now. So if those two don't, don't know. Night Ride is a 20 mile bike ride in Indianapolis in the summer that starts at 11 o'clock at night, like downtown and goes through the neighborhoods. Very, very cool. She's done it a couple times. my nephew has done it with us, and, uh, yeah.

She, she's very, very active. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. That's amazing. So I, I feel like you're not gonna stop. running anytime soon. Ever. Ever. I can't. I can't stop ever. Yeah. Ever. Because if I stop, then I'll stop. Yeah. Right. Exactly. speaking of stopping, we have to ask the end of the podcast questions now, which I don't wanna do because I love this.

It's been great. Yeah. This has been so much fun. And you've run New York City Marathon as well, which we didn't even talk about. And what's Team BLC? I saw this. Oh, that's, that's a, uh, so I mentioned I do the 3 1 7 races.

Yeah. Yeah. And, so I started by myself doing 'em. And well then, oh, there's these two guys that go to my church. BLC is Beth Lutheran Church. Okay. And, um, so a couple years ago I did a couple and then, and so those who don't know, run 3 1 7 is a run, but it's also a pretty big party. Party. Yes. Yeah. And a very fun party.

Yeah. And it's very diverse, age-wise and just in general very diverse. Yeah. There's young people and there's people older like we are. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so we, we don't run together, but we have beer together. I love that. And so then, and it's become a little bit bigger. And of course Tim Post, so said he created team BLCC.

Got you. I love it. Yeah. You don't, so you don't have shirts? No, we don't have, you should. We don't have shirts. That would be cool. But we have had people at church, like somebody's text me. Oh, I didn't know you were runner. Right. That's, yeah, that's cool. That's cool. So I have two end of the podcast questions.

Okay. And the first one is, what is your favorite running song and or mantra? And I found out you don't listen to music. So No, I don't listen to music and that's very important to me because I don't wanna be hit by a car there. That's fair. And I almost was one time, but I heard 'em, and so I don't, I don't, and so I kind of, I know lots of people listen to music.

Yeah. They run. But I, I tell people not to do that. Yeah. But my mantra is, is I can always run a mile. And so like, when you're with people, yeah. You can easily always run a mile, I think. but when I'm training for a marathon, and I do train now, even though I did at the beginning, so I'm running the 20 miler and I'm at mile 17, and I'm like.

I want to just quit and I go, I can run a mile. Yeah. And, and I can. Yeah. And so I do tell that to Becca MyFi, guys, you, you can run a mile. Yeah. Or you can run a block. Right. You can always run a little bit. So, so I, I continually use that. I like that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause it's just, it's true. Yeah. And you don't have to invest, just run.

And you, if you think about it all, the whole thing, especially when you start thinking about the ultra runners and stuff like that, like you're running a hundred miles. But then if you boil it down, like, well, I can run one mile. Right. A hundred times. Yeah. I can't maybe. Absolutely. Yeah. But yeah, I like that a lot.

And then next finish liner milestone. We talked about the milestone with the Damian Center's new building. That is so cool. Yeah. Congrats again. But you're running Chicago in the fall, so I am Have you done Chicago before? No, I have not. ooh, so you get envy the lottery? No. No. Okay. I qualified. Oh, you, I have this thing about trying to qualify and I do.

And I, and I have, I've been lucky. I qualified, so, I ran Carmel last year. Okay. Car method. I wasn't really gonna do that. I kind of was New York, was it New York? Was it? I got, I gotta stop running marathons. Well, when I'm training with these guys at back of my feet, we had two guys who were gonna run caramel marathon.

Well, by the time you train with somebody else, well, I should just do it too. Yeah. And so then I, then I get my little competitive self and it's with me competitive. Well, if I'm gonna run Carmel, I'm gonna qualify for Chicago with the idea. I've run New York, I've run Boston and I'll run Chicago. And that's the three American races.

Yep. Of the, uh, the world majors. Yep. The world majors. Yep. And so that, that's what I'm doing. I'm in, I qualified, I'm gonna train. Wow. Um, I haven't started training, but I'm gonna train, I'm gonna do that. Usually Chicago, it's like 4th of July weekend is what used to kick off my Chicago marathon training.

Well that's, yeah. I have plenty of time to start that. So you do. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, so that's what I'm gonna do this fall. Oh, you're gonna love it. Yeah. Everyone says it. Yeah. I mean, it's just the best. Yeah. Yeah. Especially compared to New York, which was, it's difficult and hilly. It was, it was difficult.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, oh, that's big. Yeah. And how do you have a total, like of how many half marathons or marathons you've done? The, the marathons is, is under 10, but close to 10. The half is probably close to 50. I, I don't, it's be over 50. I don't know. Yeah. I've done over 50. So yeah. I don't really have a total, I've never really total it up.

I mean, I, I'll, it's a lot if, if I'm ever going anywhere now I always look to see if there is a race. I mean, I love running in other cities. Yeah. Because you see so much, you know, of the city that, that's agreed, , that people don't see even when you're walking. 'cause you're usually running, I run in the morning mm-hmm.

By myself. I see all this kind of stuff. So I, I don't know, mini, mini half marathons. That's really the, the run. Yeah. That's the race for me. Right. It's nice, it's easy. It, I mean, easy. I know people are gonna say, what do you mean it's easy? What do you mean? It's easy when you run this much? Yeah. Yeah. So are you doing caramel and the mini this year?

I might do the mini, I'm not gonna do caramel car. Okay. Uh, the, the, uh, the reason I might do the mini is back with a, there's a couple back on my feet, guys. I'm gonna see if, if they want, they want somebody to run with them. One of 'em is, has, his father is my age, but his father lives in Florida. And I said, well, get your father to come in.

I'll run with you and your father. Yeah. That's cool. So, so I, I, I might do that. Yeah. But now I'm not, I mean, I probably could run the half at Carmel, but Yeah. I mean, you could, but I'm not, I'm not going to, I'm not going to either, which is very hard because I could have, and I can, I just, I'm gonna be a full-time spectator this year.

So the race is putting me at mile 20 with a microphone and music Oh, wow. In a tent. And so I'm gonna try to recruit as many people as I can to like make a big spectating thing. Yeah, that's fantastic. Run caramel enough and I'll be really jealous of everybody running if it's a really nice day. But it's spectating is, is so gratifying too.

Just Yeah, it is. Yeah. Um, so I'm really excited about that. And then the mini, I'm doing an event the night before at Bottleworks. Oh, I think I I saw that. Yeah, I saw that. That's exciting. Yeah, so, so I'm really excited about mini weekend. Yeah. And I'm doing Ainsley's Angels, pushing. Yeah. Um, again, which I'm super pumped about as well.

So, good, good. Exciting. So it sounds like you're gonna be there. You should be there. I probably, I know it sounds like it. Guess. Uh, well, thank you again for doing this. It was so much fun. Thanks for having me. It was great. Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you to everybody who listened and happy running.

If you enjoyed this episode of Finish Lines and Milestones from Sandy Boy Productions, please go share rate review. It really helps this show and it means a lot to me personally, and I will see you next week.

Ally Brettnacher