Episode 181: Amy & Jamie Shinneman - Humbly Courageous

Episodes

Nov 6

Amy and Jamie Shinneman just finished their fifth World Marathon Major as a duo team, hauling a 70-pound duo bike to Sydney on their own. Along the way, Amy met a young woman with her same rare disease.

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About this episode

Amy Shinneman, who was on episode 87, lives with Bethlem myopathy, a rare form of muscular dystrophy she spent 44 years searching to diagnose. Her husband Jamie, a civil engineer who used to hate long-distance running, pushes her in a duo bike, and together they've now run six marathons, including five World Marathon Majors. Their fastest together is a 3:11 at the 2022 Monumental, faster than Jamie has ever run solo.

We talk about taking the duo bike across the world to the Sydney Marathon without any helpers, how accessible (and not) the big races are, and Jamie's road from his sons' cross country races to Boston. They share their high school love story, a proposal from inside a TV box, running Monumental as a family of four, and how Humbly Courageous grew from a blog into a nonprofit. Amy also tells me about finally meeting Rhi, a young woman in Australia who has the same rare disease.

In this episode, we discuss

Two weeks of jet lag after the August 30 Sydney Marathon
Breaking down a six-foot duo bike into a 70-pound bag and flying it to Australia alone
Why being able to bring a wheelchair onto a plane would change everything
Reaching out to race organizers for one of about a dozen duo spots
Navigating a crowded expo and lining up with everyone else in the corrals
Jamie going from hating distance running to his first marathon at Monumental in 2015
Amy's first time sitting in a duo bike at the 2019 Boston Marathon expo
A loaner bike, a giant-stroller comment and the 2019 Chicago Marathon in 3:49
What riding in the duo bike is like for Amy, from cold weather to skipping water
Meeting at Noblesville High School at 15 and 14, breaking up and finding their way back
Jamie proposing by popping out of a wrapped TV box on Christmas
How pushing, steering, braking and fueling work as a team
Which majors do accessibility best and why duo teams should start together
Running Monumental as a family of four and building Humbly Courageous into a nonprofit
Meeting Rhi, who also has Bethlem myopathy, in Sydney and their next race in Tokyo

Chapters

00:00 · Intro
06:00 · Flying a 70-pound duo bike to Sydney
09:00 · Getting a duo spot and lining up with everyone
16:00 · Jamie's path from soccer to marathons
22:00 · Sitting in a duo bike at the Boston expo
25:00 · A loaner bike and Chicago 2019
30:00 · What the ride is like for Amy
32:00 · High school sweethearts
39:00 · The TV box proposal
44:00 · Their first finish line together
51:00 · How pushing and fueling work
57:00 · COVID, New York's 50th and Berlin
1:01:00 · Accessibility at the majors and Monumental
1:07:00 · Humbly Courageous and racing as a family of four
1:15:00 · Meeting Rhi in Sydney
1:24:00 · James Blunt, fist bumps and Tokyo

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Where to find Amy

Instagram: @jamieshinneman
Humbly Courageous

Mentioned in this episode

Races: Sydney Marathon, Berlin Marathon, Chicago Marathon, New York City Marathon, Boston Marathon, Tokyo Marathon, CNO Indianapolis Monumental Marathon, Indianapolis Mini-Marathon, Marine Corps Marathon, Noblesville Turkey Trot, Noblesville half marathon, Eugene Marathon
Organizations and charities: Humbly Courageous, Muscular Dystrophy Association Team Momentum, World Vision, Ainsley's Angels, Body in Training, Abbott World Marathon Majors, Average Athlete
Other: Bethlem myopathy, Duo bike, James Blunt's All the Lost Souls

Previous guests mentioned

Related episodes

Frequently asked

What is Bethlem myopathy?

Bethlem myopathy is a rare, progressive form of muscular dystrophy; Amy Shinneman lives with it and searched for 44 years before getting her diagnosis in 2018.

How many marathons have Amy and Jamie Shinneman run together?

As of the 2026 Sydney Marathon, Amy and Jamie Shinneman had run six marathons together as a duo team, including five World Marathon Majors, with Jamie pushing Amy in a duo bike.

What is Humbly Courageous?

Humbly Courageous started as Amy Shinneman's blog, became the name of the Shinnemans' running team, and is now a nonprofit that hopes to gift a duo bike to another family.

Support this show

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically, so it may contain errors.

This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast Amy Shinneman: I told him before we got out of the car, "If anyone calls this a giant stroller, I'm done, , and that's- Yeah exactly what happened. You- We weren't even maybe three minutes into the run and- Oh, my Ally Brettnacher: goodness ... Ally Brettnacher: Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast for everyday runners. I'm your host, Ally Brettnacher, also allytbrett_runs on Instagram. And if you run, you're a runner, and every runner has a story. Join me each week as I share these stories, and we celebrate finish lines and milestones together. This episode is brought to you by Sweathouse and Bobbles and Lace.

More on them in a moment. And as this episode comes out it is Indy Monumental race weekend. One of my most favorite weekends of the entire year when it comes to running. And weather's looking so good. You should check out my Instagram for the series that I'm doing with Chikage Windler, She is the running meteorologist, so she's been helping me understand what the weather looks like for race day. It's looking great. And, planning for our live events. I'm doing a shakeout run. If you don't know who Wyatt Moss is, go follow him on Instagram. He just ran the New York City Marathon in under four hours with no sleep.

He went out all night for Halloween. he's coming and running Indy for the second time, and we've got a surprise cooking that's pretty cool. So stay tuned for that And then also a post-race celebration event, 3:00 to 6:00 PM, Brothers Downtown. Links in the show notes Tickets are $40, but you can get $10 off with code FLAMS, F-L-A-M-S. we'll have appetizers, first drink on us, metal portraits done by Mike Lee, and there'll be a live podcast, starting at 4:30. It'll be so much fun to celebrate. First 100 to register get a goodie bag as well, so don't miss out. Come celebrate with us. We wanna celebrate you.

But Amy Shineman is back on this podcast, and I am so excited for you to hear from Amy again, but now she's brought her husband Jamie with her. And Amy was episode 87, so almost 100 episodes ago we talked for the first time, and at the time they'd done four world majors together. Now they've done Sydney, so that means that they took a 70-pound duo bike across the world by themselves and did it. So we share that whole journey and story. We talk a little bit about Jamie and his running background, and we share how he used to hate long-distance running to now running with Amy to a 3:11 marathon, and that is actually faster than his solo marathon time.

They met in high school, and They were about to celebrate their 27th wedding anniversary right after the recording of this. And at Sydney, Amy got to meet Ree, a young woman who has the same rare form of muscular dystrophy that she has, they never thought they'd meet in person. It's really cool. So it's a love story, it's a running story, and it's a reminder to use your gifts for other people. And good luck to Jack Shineman, their son, who will be running his first marathon on Saturday, hopefully. Think he was dealing with a little bit of an injury, but wishing him the best and, of course, wishing everyone else who is running the best.

You can go to finishlinesandmilestones.com/monumental. For all the people that I know that are running milestones, I've done that in partnership with Average Athlete. I've also tried to put together all the events, everything to know in one place. So if you're running or spectating, make sure you check that out. And, Amy and Jamie will be on the sidelines cheering for Jack. So I hope I get to see them out there too. But you are gonna be so incredibly inspired heading into race weekend listening to Amy and Jamie. So enjoy this conversation Ah, Amy is back I'm back And Jamie's here for the first time. Jamie Shinneman: Hello.

Ally Brettnacher: Hello. It's so great to have both of you here. Amy Shinneman: So good to Jamie Shinneman: be back. Yeah, it's awesome. Awesome to be here. Ally Brettnacher: Well, I reached out to Jamie, and I said, " Hey, come on the podcast after the Sydney Marathon." He said, "Well, Amy's gotta be there." She can come too then. Perfect. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Gotta have my partner. Amy Shinneman: I'm just observing this time. Ally Brettnacher: Stop it. So I, it's gonna be so fun to hear both of your perspectives throughout these experiences that you've had together. The first thing I'll say is people need to go listen to episode 87- Yeah ...

because we talk in depth about Amy's journey and her diagnosis. Um, but before, I guess before we focus on Jamie and get more of your background and story, Amy, would you give us the 30,000-foot view for maybe people who haven't listened to the full episode but need to know the context going into our conversation? Amy Shinneman: Uh, yeah. So I live with muscular dystrophy, a type called Bethlem myopathy. Um, I had a long journey to diagnosis, 44 years of searching. Um, Jamie was with me a lot of that time, as we met in high school. Um, and Jamie is a marathoner, and Long story short, I am too now because of him.

Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: He literally dragged, like, me to do it. Amy Shinneman: He suggested, um- Took some Jamie Shinneman: convincing ... Amy Shinneman: the duo bike, and it did take some convincing, but here we are now, and yeah, I think that's the- Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, the gist of it. Number six was it in Sydney, your sixth marathon together? Amy Shinneman: Sixth. Fifth world major. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Fifth world major. Oh- Yeah ... just inc- just incredible. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: So I wanna talk right away about Sydney actually, because it's somewhat recent. We were talking before we recorded, it's, like, two months ago?

Jamie Shinneman: Yeah, almost two months. August 30th- Ally Brettnacher: Okay ... Jamie Shinneman: was the race. Ally Brettnacher: So do you feel, Amy, I guess you first, do you feel recovered from that? Does your body feel recovered from that now? Amy Shinneman: Yeah, I do now. It did-- I will say it took a lot longer for both of us than, um, we had expected. Just the jet lag lingered for, like, two weeks. Two Jamie Shinneman: weeks. Yeah. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. We would- I wasn't Jamie Shinneman: expecting that. Amy Shinneman: We would be- Ally Brettnacher: Two weeks ... Amy Shinneman: eating dinner and both of us would just, like, immediately fall Jamie Shinneman: asleep.

Be passed out on the couch. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, that is rough. Had either of you been to Australia? Was this your Jamie Shinneman: first time? No, first time. Yeah, first time. Traveling that far for sure. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That is pretty much as far as you can go. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah, other side of the world. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: Just incredible. So I wanna hear about the race itself, but I think talking about the logistics is kind of interesting too because that is a pain- Mm-hmm ... taking that duo bike literally across the world. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: So tell people what that process was like, Jamie, for- Jamie Shinneman: Okay Ally Brettnacher: getting, packing the bike up and what do you have to do that's different than people would have to deal with on their own?

Jamie Shinneman: Well, uh, Amy talked a little bit about it in her last episode, but, um, when we went to Berlin, that particular time, uh, we had some helpers go with us on that trip. But, uh, this time going to Sydney we did not, so it's just gonna be the two of us. But before I get to that, yeah, the logistics of this duo bike, it's, it's a six-foot long, and we call it a duo bike, other people call it a duo chair. Uh, but it's got to be taken apart and put into this giant travel bag essentially, um, that's 70 pounds I would guess once everything's put in it.

Uh, the wheels are in a separate bag. Um, very difficult to even carry as one person- Mm-hmm ... so a lot of times it takes two to, to carry this body bag looking thing. Ally Brettnacher: Does the bag have wheels on it? Jamie Shinneman: No wheels on it. Ally Brettnacher: Itself? Okay. 'Cause I picture, you know, those golf clubs, skis, some of those bags- Yeah ... have those little rollers. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. I wish they did- Yeah. but they, they don't. That's a good idea. Uh, ours has traveled a few places now. Yeah. It's starting to get some, some holes in it, but, um, yeah, that's the first thing we gotta do is, is take it apart, make sure that we have everything that we need, um, you know, tools and stuff to put it back together, uh, on the other side once we get there.

Ally Brettnacher: Explain to people why it would be so important for you to be able to bring your chair onto a plane. What difference would that make for you? What would the exper- what is the experience like for you compared to what it could be like if that was possible? Amy Shinneman: I think that if I could take my chair on the plane, I mean, luckily for me, I'm an ambulatory wheelchair user, meaning that I can still, although it's very difficult, I can still walk. Um, so I choose not to use the aisle chair and just have him help me, um, get on the plane.

But that means, like, he's carrying all of our bags, all the stuff that comes off the chair. It would just be so much simpler if we could just push me to my seat, and then he could help me transfer to the seat, and then it would make it easier on not just me, but- Ally Brettnacher: Also, yeah Amy Shinneman: him too, you know, as my caregiver, I guess. Um, and just, uh, also for people that aren't able to walk, it's so, um ... And a lot of people are, are sitting in these chairs, and they're, you know, they have to have straps that hold them up, and it's just not that simple.

And transferring them to an aisle chair, and then the staff has to do it, and so there's a lot of injuries that happen because they don't, they're not really trained to do that. And it would just be safer and simpler for all. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, I feel embarrassed to admit I didn't know there was such a thing as an aisle chair. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: What is it- You shouldn't Amy Shinneman: feel embarrassed. It's Jamie Shinneman: just a little- Ally Brettnacher: What? ... Jamie Shinneman: like 12-inch Ally Brettnacher: wide chair. You shouldn't feel embarrassed. Well, you know. Amy Shinneman: What you don't know, you don't know.

Ally Brettnacher: I mean- That's true ... you know. But I am embarrassed for, for not knowing that. I've never seen it in action. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: But it makes, I mean, obviously it makes a ton of sense. How else would, you know, somebody be able to go to the bathroom on the plane if they needed to, especially on a long haul type- Yeah ... of flight? Yeah. Amy Shinneman: Yeah, and I don't even know that, that that's possible. I think once you're on the plane, you know, that's a whole other conversation that- Yeah ... ugh, that people have to sort of- You've seen how tight Jamie Shinneman: the restrooms are on a, on a plane- Oh ...

even, even for an able-bodied Amy Shinneman: person. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: There's a whole Dehydrating yourself so that you don't have to go to the bathroom and Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, when you're getting ready to run a marathon. Perfect. Right. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Uh, and how did you get into Sydney? Was that through, is it the MDA, or was it through- No ... another organization? Jamie Shinneman: No, we ju- just, uh, at this point MDA's hasn't been real involved with the overseas marathons. Okay So it's just been me really reaching out, like with Berlin and Sydney, reaching out to the, the folks there that, that run the, the marathon.

Do you have openings for duo teams? And it's more of a first come, first serve. Ally Brettnacher: That's interesting. Jamie Shinneman: And there's only maybe a dozen or so usually- Wow ... of those teams that they'll allow out of the 50 or 60,000 people that, that run these events. Ally Brettnacher: Wow. Well, Amy told me in our last episode when you guys did Berlin, remind me the year of that. Was that 20- '24 ... four, when we met. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: There wasn't a special corral for the duo teams. Is that the same at Sydney? Was there not a special area? You just line up with everyone else or...

Jamie Shinneman: Uh, it was a little better at the beginning of the race that they had a special area for those with disabilities. Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: Um, so that was nice. You know, had your own restrooms and things like that, a place to warm up. But as far as the corrals, it was you're in with everyone else again, so. Amy Shinneman: And we did try really hard. Yeah Like, talked several, with several people to try to, you know, say, "That's just not safe for, for us or other people-" Right "around us." Um, and we didn't get anywhere with that unfortunately. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah, they just put us in based on our- You know, projected finish time just like- Yeah ...

anyone else's time. Ally Brettnacher: Well, spoiler alert, Jamie's fast. So- Jamie Shinneman: Not this race I wasn't. At least that's Ally Brettnacher: helpful. Well, it's all relative- Yeah. ... because you can't say that, sorry. Oh, gosh. Yeah, and so the race itself. Well, I guess I wanna talk about the trip leading up to it too. How, how far in advance did you go before the marathon? Amy Shinneman: I think we got there on a Wednesday- Yeah ... and the marathon was on a Sunday. Jamie Shinneman: Okay. But we, but we left, with it being such a big time change, you know, it's a 14-hour time change.

We left Indiana- Monday ... on a Monday, but we arrived in Sydney on a Wednesday, so we ho- we lost a Tuesday somewhere. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Who knows where it went, Jamie Shinneman: but yeah. Yeah, we got it back later. Ally Brettnacher: That's true. Amy Shinneman: So strange. Jamie Shinneman: But we, uh- Yeah ... it was a full day of travel. We, you know, flew from Indiana to LA first, so that was a four or five-hour flight. We had a good four or five-hour layover I feel like in LA, and then it was a 15-hour flight just direct to Sydney. Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: So it was Wednesday morning, like 7:00 AM when we got in.

Ally Brettnacher: Jeez. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: So far. And they, they tell you try to stay awake as long as you can when you first get there. Ally Brettnacher: Oh, which is so hard. How did you fare? Jamie Shinneman: I made it to 5:00 PM. Ally Brettnacher: Ooh, that's Amy Shinneman: pretty good. I made it to 7:00. It was rough. Yeah. Wow. Jamie Shinneman: I think we were pretty delirious- Yes ... most of the day. That's, Ally Brettnacher: really, it's a weird feeling. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. We got lost a few times that day- ... trying to walk to do different things.

We were like, "We don't even know Jamie Shinneman: where we're at." Yeah, we got into the botanic gardens that were so hilly, and like every path we went ended in stairs. Yeah. And we couldn't figure out like how to get out of it back to the street level. Oh my Amy Shinneman: gosh. Ally Brettnacher: things people don't realize. Yeah. You know? Right. Probably able-bodied people probably get lost walking around too. Right. And then you think, well, you've got the additional obstacle of stairs. Mm-hmm. And not being able to handle those as easily as somebody else. Jamie Shinneman: And- Right ... trying to preserve my energy, you know, before- Right, to run ...

before a marathon, and, and so. Ally Brettnacher: So you did a little bit of touristy stuff before the race. How was the expo? You both can answer that. I wanna hear about what you both think about the expo. Amy Shinneman: The expo was madness. Jamie Shinneman: They usually are madness. Amy Shinneman: Yeah, I mean, we're kinda used to it, but being n- from my perspective at the expo in a wheelchair is, it's crazy. Like, people step over me or like- Yeah, they're just reaching across Jamie Shinneman: her Amy Shinneman: I'm kinda, I mean, the best tactic that we've come up with is just to kinda park me somewhere that seems like the least likely place- ...

people'll be jumping over me. Oh. Um, and then he goes and we try to make it quick because it's kinda torturous, but- Jamie Shinneman: Yeah ... Amy Shinneman: um, we were able to get in quicker. There was a huge line, and luckily we met, um, a double amputee as we were going in. Oh. And he, um, super awesome, like, inspiring guy and, um, he told us y- that we could actually go in, 'cause we had a different line that we needed to get in anyway- Right ... so it's not like we were really cutting- Sure ... the line, but we had a separate area that- They Jamie Shinneman: didn't make that real clear.

I mean, Amy Shinneman: we- No. Jamie Shinneman: Luckily we ran into him ... we could've just as easily had to get in line with everyone else- Yeah ... and then realized, oh- Oh, we'd Amy Shinneman: be Jamie Shinneman: told ... we should've been in this line Right ... to, so that wasn't real clear. Um, you, you just have to kinda blaze your trail. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: Um, so. Ally Brettnacher: This is maybe getting ahead of myself, but after these races, do you, I- I know you've provided feedback, Amy, before to the race being like, "This is why we shouldn't be in the crowd- Mm-hmm with everyone else.

It's dangerous." Do you do that every marathon, like, kinda give a recap and provide it t- that feedback to the race directors? Amy Shinneman: We did for Berlin. Um, we really should for Sydney. I usually write, um, a blog and a column, so I think sending those things could be helpful just so they could read our perspective of what- And it makes, I think, other people around us that haven't been around a duo bike, they seem, you know, kinda nervous and- Mm-hmm um, which I would probably be too if I was running and afraid s- some- this wheel is gonna hit my- Right ... you know, the back of my leg or something and ruin my race.

But, um, it just makes more sense f- to start all the duo bikes together up front. But- Yeah ... we'll keep pushing Jamie Shinneman: for it. And we do, we should reach back out to them- Yeah with some of the stuff you've written. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I mean, absolutely. 'Cause then makes it worse though than if they know and you know that they know about it- Right. Yeah ... and don't do anything about it. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: But at least then you could, you could say, "Listen, like I've done all I can." Amy Shinneman: Right. " Ally Brettnacher: You know you should make these changes to make sure that everybody who wants to participate is able to participate-" Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm Ally Brettnacher: should be safe- Yeah ...

and have an enjoyable experience." Amy Shinneman: Yeah. And change doesn't happen if we don't speak up, so. Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Have to say Sydney was, um, unlike Berlin, it was so much better for accessibility. Amy Shinneman: That's good. Yes. Jamie Shinneman: All around, whether it was their sidewalks, their curb ramps- Mm ... or just people in general seeing that we looked lost or what, they'd reach out to us and help us, "Oh, you're supposed to go in this area to, to get to the lifts," or- Amy Shinneman: People are amazing there. Jamie Shinneman: Like- Or they'd get a ramp for us to g- get from the platform onto a train.

Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: I mean, it was so great the way that- Just- ... people reached out ... Amy Shinneman: no shortage of helpful people there. Ally Brettnacher: That's good. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: That's good to hear. Yeah, 'cause otherwise, I mean, it's hard to travel In, especially in Europe, in foreign countries, it's hard enough, let alone, you know, with the situation that you guys are in- Mm-hmm having to navigate it differently is, is a challenge. Mm-hmm. So let's talk about the race. Let's take a pause and go back in time for Jamie and talk a little bit more about who you are, how you ended up getting into marathoning, the marathons you ran before you convinced Amy she should come along.

Uh, just so people kind of understand your background, and then I wanna talk about Sydney and the whole race experience itself. Jamie Shinneman: Uh, so for me, I, I feel like I've always been some type of an athlete. Um, uh, soccer was my sport growing up, and, uh, I did not like running long distance, especially be- you know, soccer, they made that kind of a punishment. So I didn't really discover running, uh, long distance until we had our boys and, um, our oldest discovered he liked, or he was very good at running, uh, long distance, the mile race. And, uh, so we got him into a cross country and track program.

His little brother, of course, wanted to follow, do everything his brother did. And I would really be with them, running around the neighborhood, 'cause I didn't want them being by themselves- Mm-hmm ... in training. You know, they're first grade. Well, Luke was first grade. Jack was, like, four years old. Wow. Um, so that was kinda the start of it. Uh, you know, getting them into this track and cross-country program up in Noblesville. Body In Training, um, was the, was the team. They're a great, great group. I started getting into coaching, just really being a parent to help corral little kids and stuff, but eventually I, I kinda fell in love with it.

Luke would, our oldest, would, would say, "Hey, Dad, you wanna, you wanna do a 5K together?" And so we would start doing the Turkey Trot, uh, in Noblesville, what started to become a tradition then. He was so fast at that a- I couldn't even keep up with him as a first-grader. I just ... You know? Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Well, and- Jamie Shinneman: I'd seen- Ally Brettnacher: at that time too, Amy, from your perspective, how was your life different at that point? Were you in a wheel- were you using a wheelchair at that point? Were you going to, you know, parked at the finish line so you could watch them and be with them, or would you stay at home?

What did that look like for you at that time? Amy Shinneman: Yeah, I wasn't in a wheelchair as much as I am now. I was certainly, um, you know, my disease is progressive, so I did, I think, use a, a wheelchair for, like, I didn't have my custom chair yet, but maybe for, like- trips or just very long distances. Okay. But I was, I think I would be at, like, some of the finish lines. Um, definitely, like, if he was running a marathon, my, Luke and I, our, my oldest would take me and, like, push me and around. You know- Yeah ... I couldn't walk all that way.

But yeah, we, we made a way to, to make it happen usually. Yeah. That's Jamie Shinneman: great. Mm-hmm. I guess so, so from there it was 5Ks to Luke wanted to do a half marathon next in Noblesville. That was gonna be a stretch, but we did some training. So again, that was fun to just, your kid wanting you to do something- Right. ... with him, right- Mm-hmm ... at, at that age. Um- I, Ally Brettnacher: I dream of that. Jamie Shinneman: So we, we would train. We did our first half marathon together and, and, um- Ally Brettnacher: Which one was that? Jamie Shinneman: It was a Noblesville one.

Uh, I don't even know if they're still doing it. Ally Brettnacher: They don't anymore. Oh. I did it one year. Yeah. And I, Jamie Shinneman: it Ally Brettnacher: was nice. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: It was my first introduction to that. Of course, he did it in under an hour 30, you know- Geez, yeah ... as an 11-year-old or something. I'm like just crazy. But, uh, I think that started to feed my interest level. I, I looked into the Indy Monumental next. Uh, our church had a team that, for World Vision. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, okay. Jamie Shinneman: And so I liked Running for other people.

Um, you know, just something about me I guess to, uh, for that particular thing was to raise money, awareness for kids in Africa, um, you know, to raise money for water. Mm. You know, every $50 provides clean water for a kid for life. So that was 2015. I signed up to do the half and, uh, I'm typically a runner that just likes to do it by himself. I don't get out and run with a lot of people, but I started doing the Saturday morning long run with that group. I had no idea about running paces or anything like that yet. Um, started running with the eight minute time group and was keeping up with them fi- Most of them were marathon guys.

I thought maybe I could do a marathon if I can keep up with these guys. So I, at some point, changed it to the marathon from the half- Oh ... uh, in 2015. Wow. Training went well and, um, that was the first time, the first marathon, but it was the first time that I saw somebody pushing someone else- Mm in what we call a duo bike. Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: And I was just blown away by, you know... I knew what it took to f- to train myself for a marathon. I couldn't believe I see somebody here pushing another individual Yeah. ... for a race like that.

Yeah. And I just thought, wow, this would be neat if, if I could ever talk Amy into doing something like this. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. Did, was Luke interested in the marathon distance, or was he too young at that point? Jamie Shinneman: He was probably too young. Um, 2015 he would've been, what, 12? Ally Brettnacher: Oh, yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Okay. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: So he was- Yeah, and he was also- ... doing half marathons. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. That's cool. He was running for a school team. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Yeah. So there was Amy Shinneman: only so much Jamie Shinneman: you could- They didn't encourage that, you're right- Yeah um, with those teams until they were done with high school.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That makes, that makes sense. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: While you're still growing- Yeah ... seems like a lot to put on your body. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: But, uh, okay, so Monumental was your first marathon. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: What did you run that in, do you remember? Jamie Shinneman: Um Ally Brettnacher: Did you qualify for Boston right out of the gate? Uh, Jamie Shinneman: I can't remember if I... I, I feel like it was a 3:15 or something. Um, I-- the first Boston was 2018 though, so it might've been the 2016 Monumental that I- Okay ... that I qualified, so I guess I can't remember my 2015 time.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I mean, for, uh, there's a wide variety of people who listen to this. For me, that is cooking. That is very fast, uh, which is just, yeah, really cool. And then we'll talk about some of your times with, together with Amy, and people are gonna be like- Huh ... "What?" "Okay. It's a whole nother level." Yeah. Uh, okay, so now bring us to when you finally convince Amy to do it with you. What was, I mean, h- when did you start asking? Right after that marathon? And then what Jamie Shinneman: I feel like it was pretty quickly after I'd seen- Amy Shinneman: I think you've mentioned it, but at that point I had never seen a duo bike, and still, I mean, I, I don't wanna get ahead- Yeah ...

of myself or our conversation, but he'll tell you where I first saw a duo bike. Um, but, uh, yeah, at that point it was just kinda he was talking and I'm like thinking, "No." Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, Jamie Shinneman: no thanks. Yeah, I mean, I, I know that her, at least for Amy, being in a wheelchair is, it's, you, she feels like that's a s- that's a spotlight. She, just having a disability in general, people look at you differently. Yeah. And, um, to be in something like that would be even more on display. I, so I knew that it was gonna be difficult for her to even consider- Mm-hmm doing something like that.

But, so it wasn't until the 2019, um, it was my second Boston solo event. We went to the expo and they had, um- Um, a group there that had a duo bike on display that you could sit in and- Oh ... check it out. Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Yep. Jamie Shinneman: And so- Yeah ... I, I saw it and I found her and said, "You, you gotta check this out." We're gonna Ally Brettnacher: sit in this. You gotta sit. Amy Shinneman: Still going into that expo, I'm like so just against it. I'm like, "Okay. I'm gonna do this so that I can do it, and then I can tell him, 'No thank you,' again." Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

I'll do it for you to say that I did it, but then I'm like, "No. I'm, I'm good." So describe that feeling, Amy, of sitting in that chair for the first time. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Well, the people, first of all, um, were so kind and, and just made it, like, a, just a very welcoming environment and just... I don't know. There was something about it that started to change my mind a little bit. So then I sat in it and I'm like, "Well, this is actually pretty comfortable." And then, um, one of the guys was like, "Do you wanna take a little spin?" And I'm like, "Okay." And so we did that.

And sort of after that, I felt like I was not sold, but definitely on the way to being sold on it, and I started to, to picture myself in it more. And then life has a way of, of making things happen when they're supposed to happen, is what I think. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: So that's exactly what happened. Jamie Shinneman: Yep. So that was, what? Spring, April of 2019 was Boston. And then, um, so we ran... At that point, we're running for MDA's Team Momentum. We ha- we had figured out Amy's diagnosis in- Okay. Yep ... late 2018, and so that's... If you go back and listen to her podcast from that time- Mm-hmm ...

she really focused all efforts into let's find out everything we can about muscular dystrophy, and, and that, that turned up this running team that they had, Team Momentum. So 2019, I think, was the first time I ran for them- Mm-hmm ... as a solo runner. And after that, uh, they found out that we were maybe interested in doing a duo team, and of course, we didn't have a duo bike or anything like that. But the race director, Chris, um, they had one and reached out to us and said, "Hey. We've got one on loan." A loaner bike. A loaner bike. Would you guys be interested in running the Chicago Marathon in 2019?

Just a short six months later maybe. Ally Brettnacher: Wow. And did you say, like... Well, I mean, I guess you had to talk about it a little bit, but... Amy Shinneman: Well, I think when we- When he told us about the bike and the story behind it that, you know, it, it was a, a gentleman and his wife had purchased the bike. She had ALS and, um, I think she passed away before they were able to, to use it. But I think he ended up running, um, with the chair- Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm ... Amy Shinneman: um, in her memory. With her picture in it. Oh, that's really Ally Brettnacher: cool.

Amy Shinneman: Um, and so we just felt, I don't, that connection, like, felt because it was a husband and a wife, um, that was encouraging. And then I think you thought, we'll start out with a 5K and- Yeah ... work our Jamie Shinneman: way into it. I never pictured a marathon as a starting Ally Brettnacher: As a starting point. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Right. Right. Yeah. Did you do, end up doing a 5K and training at Jamie Shinneman: all? No. No, we- ' Ally Brettnacher: Cause they just loaned you the bike. Did they give it to you when you got to Chicago? Jamie Shinneman: We got it ahead of time so that we could train with it.

So you could train. Okay. That, well, that makes- And of course we had no idea of how do we even train with this. Mm-hmm. You know? Um, I knew how to train myself for- Yeah ... a marathon, but I don't think there's much out there for duo teams on how you train for something like that. So we had to kind of figure that out. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That's another thing I feel like I should wr- note and write down. It's like, okay, there should be a coach out. There's so many running coaches. Mm-hmm. Why isn't there a coach that can specialize- Yeah ... in helping a team?

Or even just athletes like, you know, myself, who was poop, pushes. I didn't know what to do. Right. I took a kettlebell and a stroller and was hoping for the best, you know? So yeah, that's really, really interesting. So how did you approach that training cycle then? Jamie Shinneman: For logistics of, like, being able to go to work and things like that was, for me, I just run solo during the week like I always do. Um, I'm able to, uh, I just work like a half mile from the Monon, so I can go run and come back, take a shower and stuff. But on the weekends we decided the long runs, Amy would do the long run with me.

whatever that distance was. Okay So for us, that's worked out well at, at least doing that the long run. It allows her to get used to being in the duo bike for a distance, and us figuring out our rhythms and what we do and that kind of thing, uh, as well as just enjoy the time together as well. Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. But Jamie Shinneman: that, that's been working well for us. Ally Brettnacher: Was it, if I remember, was it the first training run you did together where someb- well, a woman said str- called the chair a stroller? Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. It was the day that we had picked it up from Chicago.

We had to go get it there, and we stopped off in Naperville to- That's right um, take it for a test run 'cause we knew they had a nice trail there, and I d- I just had... I s- I told him before we got out of the car, I, "If anyone calls this a giant stroller, I'm gonna be, I'm done, like, or I'm upset" Or I don't know. I just, it was a thing that I, I, I didn't want that to happen, and that's- Yeah exactly what happened. Ally Brettnacher: Right. Amy Shinneman: You- We weren't even maybe three minutes into the run and- Oh, my Ally Brettnacher: goodness ...

Amy Shinneman: you know, the, the woman meant no harm. She was explaining to her child that they were curious, and she's like- Of course, Ally Brettnacher: yeah ... " Amy Shinneman: It's a giant stroller." I'm like, "Well, there it is. At least we got it out of the way." Ally Brettnacher: You're like, "Goo goo, ga ga", yeah. Yeah, well, the, the fact that it happened, like, the first time is just the irony- Yeah ... there is, is wild. I try my best when I talk to people about Ainsley's Angels, for example, and duo bikes that I ta- they call them chariots. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

And so I always refer to it that way, but people will call it a stroller, and I'll, I will say, "You, you know, call it the... It's not a stroller. Call it this" Mm-hmm ... just to try to help. You know, people just don't know, Amy Shinneman: right? Yeah. To your point. Right. Exactly. So. And, you know, I probably had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder, but, um, I've, I've come ar- you know, with, we, we both see on the Monon or wherever we're running, like, a lotta, like, just, like, warm and welcoming looks and, but we'll also see some really, like, puzzled or just some comments like, "What the heck was that?" Or- Well, right ...

I mean, maybe not said that nicely, but Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Geez. Interesting. people. Yeah. So Amy, for you in those first long runs, and people assume, "Oh, you're sitting in a chair." Mm-hmm. "Oh, it's, it's comfortable. That must be nice and relaxing for you." Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: But it's, it's not. It's hard on your body too. Yeah. So can you describe what it's like for you to be in the chair while, while Jamie's running? Well, how running is for you? Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, depending on what season we're training in, um, the cold weather's really tough on my muscles and my body.

So it, it's kind of funny. You'll see him running in like a tank top, and I've got like a blanket and a- two- Winter jacket ... coats and- Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ... Amy Shinneman: you know. Um, that part of it is one of the hardest parts, I think, especially training throughout the winter. That's- Ally Brettnacher: Mm ... Amy Shinneman: um, that's tough. But, um, just sitting that long also is, is, in that position, um, and then the bumps and the, um... I, I remember when we got our loaner bike, a, a guy had used it, and he, um, had spinal muscular atrophy, I believe, and- Ally Brettnacher: Yeah Amy Shinneman: the tire, he had the tires totally basically- Deflated ...

deflated because it made the bumps a little less, like, somehow. Ally Brettnacher: Oh. Amy Shinneman: I don't know, but that was something we had to, to figure out. Um, yeah, and I think, you know, I don't drink anything when I'm in the chair. Um, I mean, we could stop and, like, get me out, and- Yeah I could use the bathroom. But we, we've learned that that's not fun, and it totally kills our time during the marathon. Yeah. So, um, that's part of training for me. Um- I mean, a, a lot of it is enjoyable. M- just the scenery that I'm able to see. I would never be able to, to take a long walk on the Monon or, um So I'm able to see so much more, and I know you talk about you love to see my perspective.

Jamie Shinneman: Oh, yeah. Um. That was so amazing seeing for the first time getting her out on a trail and just watching her with her phone, like video- Amy Shinneman: Ugh ... Jamie Shinneman: the stuff that she's never seen before at that speed maybe. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: And just seeing the sunlight coming through the trees, um, and then the reels or things that she puts together is just makes it all worth it for me, I guess. Yeah. And just to spend time together and help her see things she hasn't seen before. Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. We need to talk about how you met.

You mentioned high school sweethearts, and then we'll keep going with the marathons, but I think the foundation and relationship that you've have and have built over, you know, over two decades is really admirable. And so let's go back to geography. Geography class or geology? I forget. Rocks or maps? Geography. Jamie Shinneman: Geography is what she thinks it is. And I'm not sure if it was- Yeah ... that or history, but- Yeah ... my memory's faded in- Yeah ... 35 years. I Ally Brettnacher: know what it was. So you went to, did you go to Noble- Noblesville High School as well? Jamie Shinneman: Yes. Ally Brettnacher: And did your sons both go there too?

Jamie Shinneman: Yes. Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. Yeah. So Noblesville High School, you're in class together. Jamie Shinneman: I'm 15, and she's 14. Um, I feel like that's the first time I saw her was in that class. Um, but, um, we met in the science, really were introduced, I guess, in a science hallway. But a couple- Yeah of our frien- one of my best friends, one of her best friends were dating at the time. Oh. Mm-hmm. Um, not anymore, but, uh- Yeah. ... they introduced, they thought we they thought we would be a good couple- Oh ... and, and introduced us. Um, that was kind of the, the start of that.

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Did they break up in high school and, like, ruin everything? 'Cause like Jamie Shinneman: I don't think they were that serious. Yeah. Were they? Amy Shinneman: No. I don't think so either, and, you know, maybe they were together just to bring us together. Yeah. Who knows? Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: This is funny. Well, it's funny to think about in high school. Do you remember asking her out for the first time, Jamie? Jamie Shinneman: I, I don't remember like how that would've gone, but I do remember like we had a Pizza Hut in Noblesville. But that was kinda like the place to go- Yeah ...

and hang out there, or the Noble Roman's nearby. Mm. You know, it just, you... To get away from your fam- your parents and have them drop you off at a place like that where a lot of people hung out. Amy Shinneman: We Jamie Shinneman: couldn't drive. We couldn't drive yet. Yeah. Maybe it was your sister that- Yeah took us or something, but- Amy Shinneman: She Jamie Shinneman: did ... you know, then we would kind of roam around that retail area after we were done and- Amy Shinneman: Yeah ... Jamie Shinneman: you know. Amy Shinneman: Exciting times. Jamie Shinneman: Exciting. Yeah. Yeah, you know, first kisses and all that kind of stuff.

You know, first we were f- you know, first for each other, um, as a s- serious relationship. So, um, yeah. Got really involved and eventually, um, ended things, you know, my... Was it my senior year? She likes to tell the story where I had to dump her. Ally Brettnacher: We could, now we get to hear your side, Jamie. And, Jamie Shinneman: uh- You had to dump me. Oh, I, we were very serious, um, with our relationship, probably more than we, we should've been at that age. And, um, y- I think it was good that just looking back that, that we took that time apart to, to learn a little more about each, ourselves- Yeah ...

and, and maybe dating other people. And, and like my dad had told us wh- when we broke up at that time, it was, it was a tough, um, evening when that happened, but- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm Jamie Shinneman: he, he encouraged Amy that, you know, "If, if it's meant to be, you know, he'll come back." Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: And, um, something like that, right? Amy Shinneman: If it's meant to be, you'll be together. Yeah. And if it's not, then, um, you know, you won't. Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Have Amy Shinneman: a great life. And I was like- Like, okay ... "Okay, bye," and like in tears.

Jamie Shinneman: Not what she wanted to hear at the time, but- Yeah. No, that would be Ally Brettnacher: really hard to hear Amy Shinneman: from Jamie Shinneman: a boyfriend at- But looking back on that it w- it was so true. Yeah. Um, you know, we both spent time apart. We stayed good friends through college, you know, talking occasionally. Would commiserate on, you know, whoever we were dating at the time, you know, how- That's funny they sucked or, you know. Um, but it, it was after college really, a year or so, uh, not too long after- Amy Shinneman: Yeah ... Jamie Shinneman: graduating college. Amy Shinneman: Did you go to the same college?

Jamie Shinneman: No, um- Amy Shinneman: We did start out, um- Jamie Shinneman: I was at Purdue and, but you ended up, started at Purdue, ended up at IUPUI. Amy Shinneman: Well, there was a cou- couple others in there Jamie Shinneman: too. There was a few schools in between that too. Amy Shinneman: I did the tour. Figured it out. Yeah. The Indiana college tour. Jamie Shinneman: Um, but, uh, I, I lived in Memphis, Tennessee at the time. My first job was down there, but I would come home occasionally to see family during holidays and- Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Okay ... Jamie Shinneman: would sometimes reach out to Amy to, to connect and, and then that kinda rekindled, rekindled the relationship and, and then she would start coming down to see me in Memphis and- Amy Shinneman: As a friend Jamie Shinneman: as a friend, yeah.

Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: I'm sure her parents were real happy about that. They're like, "Uh-huh, Ally Brettnacher: sure." " Jamie Shinneman: This guy again?" Amy Shinneman: This guy. Yeah. Yep, and then I moved to Memphis Jamie Shinneman: Yep Amy Shinneman: The rest is history Ally Brettnacher: I forgot about that, that you mo- that, and I don't know if, we probably talked about it. I don't remember you, you lived in Memphis Yeah, I don't know if we Amy Shinneman: touched on that or not, but Jamie Shinneman: We did a little bit, um Amy Shinneman: We lived, I lived there for five years, you six, and- Jamie Shinneman: Yeah, and- Ally Brettnacher: Did you come home when?

Home to Indiana. Jamie Shinneman: Like permanently back? Yeah Um, 2002 is, we wanted to start our family and- Yep, okay ... and being closer to, to our, um, parents and siblings w- we thought would be a good idea to have that support system. Mm-hmm. Being in Memphis was 500 miles away, eight-hour drive. It would've been very difficult not having that support system. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. So that was the reason for it, and it didn't take too long. 2003 is when we ha- when we had Luke Uh, fortunately, the- Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Tomorrow's actually our 27th wedding anniversary Ally Brettnacher: Tomorrow is? Jamie Shinneman: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, that's so great. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. 27 years. Ally Brettnacher: Wow. Okay, and then I'm gonna ask you what people are probably thinking too. Like, you didn't know what your diagnosis was, Amy, at this time. It took very, very- Right ... long time for you to get diagnosed. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: But you knew that you were different. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: And so therefore Jamie knew you were different. How, how did that impact your relationship if, you know, in that thinking of the longevity of y- your relationship and how that looks? How does that come into play for you, Jamie?

I'm gonna ask you that. Jamie Shinneman: I don't know. I, I feel like, uh, even when I was 15, I... sure she was different, but, um, you know, she really at that point just might have needed an extra arm or hand, um, for mobility-wise. But other than that, I mean, she was just Amy and, um, just like anyone else- Right. No, that wa- ... that, that you would be dating. Um, a- and yes, it's a progressive muscle disease, and it's a slower one. It's, it's gotten a little more difficult. It, it seems like it's, um, gotten worse a lot faster now- Mm-hmm ... the, the older that, that we're getting.

But we just continue to adapt, um, over time. It's mainly been mobility things- Mm-hmm um, for her. She's, she's so good at just figuring out whether it's in the kitchen or, or dealing with our kids when they were younger, how, how am I gonna do things differently. Yeah. And, and I'm just there to kinda help support that, um, so that she can experience life as, as anyone would want to experience that, that. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. And how did you propose? Jamie Shinneman: Um, we still joke about sending it to the America's Funniest Home Videos. But, um- Ally Brettnacher: Oh, you can send it to me.

I'll put it on, in the episode Jamie Shinneman: It is on, it is on video. Um, but, um, for whatever reason, I decided I was going to wrap myself up in a box. It ended up being when TVs were those jig- or giant tube boxes, you know. So it was big enough for me to get in. Um- Amy Shinneman: Which was our plan to, like, get each other for Christmas a TV. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: So it wasn't- Jamie Shinneman: I had to fool her somehow. So we, we were home. We were still living in Memphis, but, um, she was staying at her parents' house.

I was staying with my parents, but we had secretly invited my parents to... They were hiding in a- another bedroom. But, uh, so I had to have them help me, you know, get in the box and close the wrapping paper around it. Her parents, what'd they do? Take you up to your sister's house or something to get you away for a little bit Amy Shinneman: or? Yeah, well, that's kinda where the plan went wrong for me because- my sister and her husband lived, you know, in town with their, their son. I- he was very young, like maybe one or something at the time, and they were like, "Well, we're gonna get up and go over there on Christmas morning and watch him open gifts." And I was like, "Well, that's fine, but I'm gonna stay in my pajamas." Like, I'm not, like, getting ready to go over there and- And my mom is like, "Are you sure, like, that you don't wanna..." Ally Brettnacher: You're like, "Jeez, Amy Shinneman: Mom." I'm like- "Yeah, Ally Brettnacher: it's Christmas.

Leave Amy Shinneman: me alone." Right. I'm like, "I'm fine." Yeah. And she was like, "Okay." That was kind of the funny part that- I was, I was not- Yeah ... dressed for the occasion. Jamie Shinneman: So you came home with your parents, and they start opening their gifts, and I don't know if you thought that big box was from your parents or what, but you- Amy Shinneman: Well, I think- ... Jamie Shinneman: opened it up ... Amy Shinneman: yeah, my mom was like, "Why don't you go open that one?" And I knew that it was from you. And bec- and so I start opening it, and I said, I saw it was a TV box, and I- Ally Brettnacher: So where do you th- oh, you just, he's not there Amy Shinneman: at this point.

He's not there. I love it. He's not there at Christmas. We, I mean, we weren't planning to be together that- Okay ... you know, he was with his family and- Okay ... 'cause we were obviously not married at the time. Yeah, okay. And, um, I saw the T- it was a TV box. I'm like, "I knew it. I knew he was g- you know, I was getting this TV." Jamie Shinneman: And poof, I popped out. Scared her to death. I Amy Shinneman: screamed. Ally Brettnacher: Oh, my god, that would be so scary. Jamie Shinneman: I'm shaking like a leaf, you know? Amy Shinneman: Yeah. " Jamie Shinneman: Will you marry me?" I Amy Shinneman: don't even think you said, "Will you?" I think you just- " Jamie Shinneman: Marry me?" Ally Brettnacher: We're gonna get married.

Here. Jamie Shinneman: And then I'm trying to kneel down in this box, you know, it's very difficult. I just- I almost, like, tipped over. I know. It would've been worse. Ally Brettnacher: So good. Amy Shinneman: But then his parents came walking around the corner, and I'm like, "What's going..." You know, so both of our families were there, and, and my sister and that, it was a really awesome- Ally Brettnacher: That is so awesome. Jamie, how long were you in the box? Jamie Shinneman: Too long. It was getting warm. I think my mom Ally Brettnacher: was like- I mean, I'm thinking you'd sort of cut some holes in the box ...

"You need to cut some holes in here." You're opening presents and you're like- Yeah ... "Okay, how many presents?" 20, 20 Jamie Shinneman: minutes maybe. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: That's a long time. Just hearing Amy Shinneman: all that. Yeah. That's funny. Ally Brettnacher: That is so funny. I w- can I please see the video? You don't have to, you don't have to give it to me to publicize, but- Amy Shinneman: That is so good ... we have the video, and then a, I have a picture, like, of him in the box just looking, like, up. That is so great. So I'll send that too.

Ally Brettnacher: I Jamie Shinneman: love that. It's on, it's on the old VHS tapes. I don't know if I ever got it converted- Oh, yeah, it's on VHS ... uh, into a- Amy Shinneman: I have, like, a, a video- You do? ... of the video. We Jamie Shinneman: might be able to get it to- Ally Brettnacher: My parents recently, I don't know if it was recently, but we have all our home movies on DVDs. Mm-hmm. And yeah, it's, it is, it's great to have- Yeah ... a digital copy, 'cause then- Right obviously you Amy Shinneman: can- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm ... watch it, but I haven't gone through it yet.

It's gonna be embarrassing. okay, yeah. Wow, so wonderful. So you, so you get married, got your two boys, and then Luke starts all the running stuff. Marker --- Ally Brettnacher: quick break in my conversation with the Shinemans to tell you about our partners for this episode. First up is Sweat House. Monumental Weekend is here. Sweat House you can use code ALLYB5 to get $5 off of your first session. having contrast therapy as part of my recovery is now a must. My body craves it. You have a private suite with an infrared sauna, then you go to a vitamin C shower, which helps your skin and hair.

It gets you clean for the cold plunge, it's an hour that I relish that makes me feel so good. So you have to try it. Hopefully, there's some spots still available this weekend. You can go check. They have three locations in the Indy area, Bottleworks, Broad Ripple, and up in Carmel our ShakeOut is also supported by Bobbles & Lace, which is a boutique that recently opened a location in Bottleworks. They have a gift card in the giveaway. And so if you're coming to the post-race celebration but you don't have something to wear, perfect place to stop in for that. Make sure you tell them Lindsay and I sent you, and we'll see you at the celebration event.

And if you're not local to Indiana or you're not gonna be in town, they have other locations. You can also shop online, Bobblesandlace.com. All right, now back to my conversation with Amy and Jamie so you get married, got your two boys, and then Luke starts all the running stuff. Yeah. So now we're , back to running. So that first marathon that you ran together in Chicago 2019 Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm Ally Brettnacher: How was the race, and what was the experience like crossing your first finish line together? Jamie, you can start if you want. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Um, what was cool about Chicago was that they had a very separate or just area for athletes with disabilities, um, right?

It was a separate- Amy Shinneman: Designated ... Jamie Shinneman: separate building even- Mm-hmm ... with refreshments, drinks, restrooms. They brought you out, um, uh, you know, to-- We, we all started at the same time, so that was our first experience and thinking, "Wow, this is great- Mm-hmm how they treat, um, athletes with disabilities." They rolled us in right after wave one. Um, you know, and, um, for whatever, we, we started catching people pretty quickly, but it was crowded. Um What else? The, I mean, the crowds in Chicago, it's still one of my favorite marathons just because of the crowds- Yeah all the way through the race.

Amy Shinneman: A lot of our family and friends came. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah, we Amy Shinneman: had- Yeah ... Jamie Shinneman: family and friends following us all throughout the city. Um- Amy Shinneman: Was it a good weather day? Jamie Shinneman: Was- Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm ... Jamie Shinneman: was good. Um, but we had a very quick end of the race. Amy started not feeling well around like mile three or- Mm-hmm ... or six. I forget what, but it was pretty, pretty early on and, and so we got pretty nervous about what's, what's going on here. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Um, we decided to stop, um, t- take a break, let her just regroup.

Um- Got out of the bike. Got out of the bike. Um, maybe took an opportunity for the restroom break. Um, but, uh, I don't know if it was you or me, but I, I thought, I felt like I said this could be adrenaline, you know, that you've got, um, that you're not able to release it. Like us as runners, you know, we're- Amy Shinneman: Us, Jamie Shinneman: yep ... we have all this adrenaline, but you're able to release it as you're running, but she's just kind of trapped there in her bike and- Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm ... Jamie Shinneman: and not able to do anything really.

And so that's what we felt like maybe was going on and, and I think maybe that helped you. Amy Shinneman: It's just a lot of, of build up with nowhere to go, you know, 'cause I'm not- Yeah, what a Ally Brettnacher: horrible feeling. Amy Shinneman: Yeah, and I, I had never experienced that before, and that feeling feels pretty awful. Um, but now that we're aware of it, like, I, I can work through it better. Jamie Shinneman: She, yeah, she, I think after that you started getting into, she had a cowbell and then she started figuring out how to engage with the crowd and, um, the crowd just loves it when, when we come through as you've experienced too.

Yeah. When they see somebody- Yes ... a team like that come through, it's, it's so, so great and encouraging. Uh, any- anytime a runner's got crowds cheering for them is great, but it just seems like it's exponentially more when we come through. And so she even had a cowbell injury I think after Ally Brettnacher: I did. Jamie Shinneman: By the end of that race on her finger. Ally Brettnacher: Nice big blister. Yeah. Deep cut. We talked about Jamie Shinneman: that. Deep cut, Ally Brettnacher: but- A deep cut? Amy Shinneman: On Ally Brettnacher: my finger, yeah. Geez. I mean, I was really getting Amy Shinneman: into Ally Brettnacher: it.

Well, I mean, you had so much adrenaline. You were ringing that bell. Jamie Shinneman: But Chicago is a nice flat course. It was a great first one for me and, and for her too. We, we did it in I think 3:49. I, I was- Amy Shinneman: With the stop. Jamie Shinneman: With the stop, yeah. We- That's nice ... um, we weren't sure what... I, again, no idea how, what my pace would be. I was typically like a 7:30 to an eight-minute solo person, and I thought I might be 11 or 12 minutes- Right. Oh, wow. Yeah ... pushing. But, um- I forget what that pace ended up being for a 3:49, but we were, we were happy with that.

Just glad to be under- Mm-hmm ... four, four hours. Yeah, Ally Brettnacher: it's under- Mm-hmm. It would be under a nine-minute pace. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Um, but the last little hill over that bridge- Mm-hmm ... and then you're coming down, just the emotions- Ugh ... for me were very powerful. And, and I'm, and I know for Amy too, but to have her experience her very first, you know, finish line- Mm-hmm and, and to get her own medal, that was pretty powerful. Amy Shinneman: Yeah, it was kind of an out-of-body experience. Um, like just I couldn't believe that that was happening, and I had watched him and my boys cross countless finish lines and- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm ...

Amy Shinneman: um, I was always happy to be the cheerleader cheering them on and, um, but to be the one actually crossing the finish line was, was pretty amazing. And just the realization that, you know- You-- there, there are other ways to do things, you know? I've n-never run in my life, but yet I've crossed the finish line of all these marathons now, and, and just having somebody like Jamie that is willing to help push me outside of my comfort zone and, um, has been the best thing in the world for me. I mean, it's changed my life in a lot of ways. The, the running of the marathons has given me confidence to kinda share my story and not be afraid to be on display and, you know, see that maybe as a, a positive thing rather than- Yes ...

um, being judged by people. Right. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. One, one last memory, I guess, of Chicago that I've, I've shared before, but, um, there was-- I don't remember what mile it was, but we, we were coming through the streets and saw a, uh, a mother and a daughter on the side, uh, you know, fans. But, uh- Mm ... the daughter was in a wheelchair, and just I remember her, the daughter, like, looking at us like with this look like, "Oh my gosh, I could do something like this someday." Mm-hmm. That just, uh, inspired me, I guess. Um, I still think of that. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Wow. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. You know, the, the stuff that we're doing might, might inspire other people to get out there and live beyond their, their limits. Ally Brettnacher: Right. Jamie Shinneman: Do things they never thought they might do. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so for the logistics of the bike too, and how you run, I think people assume, like you said, "Oh, maybe I'll be at 11, 12-minute mile." Mm-hmm. But it's, it's not-- it's difficult, but it's not as hard as people think. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Talk us through kind of how you navigate what it's like to be on your side, 'cause we've, we've heard from Amy's side how it feels.

But how does it feel for you, and then maybe some of the logistics around fueling and how you, you know, team up for that and- Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm ... Ally Brettnacher: how some of that stuff works. Jamie Shinneman: Okay. So f-from my perspective, pushing the bike, it's got, um, a couple of, like, arm braces that your-- so your arms are kinda locked like you were on a, say, you were on a racing bike and your arms are locked. Um, it's, it's similar to that. So as a runner, you're used to moving your arms, and that was weird at first, I think, you know, to just have them locked and only your legs are moving.

But it's, I think, something that, that I got used to. But you, you definitely need that to be able to push forward and to kinda steer. There's, there's no real brakes or anything like that, but I, I have to kinda push the Lift her front wheel up- Mm-hmm ... I guess, to make turns. Um, so it's constant, like, upper body type work- Mm-hmm ... as well, especially on courses that have a lot of turns or, uh, hills in particular, um, can be difficult. I get there is a brake for our, our bike. It- it's got one little handbrake on the left hand. Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Jamie Shinneman: It's only on one wheel, so when you use it, it kinda- Ally Brettnacher: Pulls ... Jamie Shinneman: the tire wants to kinda pull to that side. Ally Brettnacher: Over. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. And so, um, Sydney was so hilly, but um, so it, it, it was a lot of brake work. It would try to pull you to one side. I'm using my other arm to try to correct it and not drive into people, so- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm Jamie Shinneman: that one was so much harder, but Ally Brettnacher: yeah. Do people in those scenarios... I mean, I imagine I'm running up, I remember running up, when I did Marine Corps for the first time, I remember the chair- the chairs on the hills.

Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: And they were single ri- they were riders of, just singles. But I remember thinking, geez, like- Like, you, you wanna like help. As a human you're like- Yeah ... "Oh, can I assist you?" But you also understand, like they are capable. These are athletes. So for you, when you're on a hill like in Sydney- Yeah ... are people like, "Hey, do you want a t- you know, a partner?" Do people offer? Most Jamie Shinneman: people Ally Brettnacher: just- Do you want people to Jamie Shinneman: offer? ... encourage Amy Shinneman: us. People did offer in Sydney, and I think that's the first time you've ever said sure.

Jamie Shinneman: Yeah, that, that one time. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: I d- I did, yeah. Most times I'm, I'm stubborn and I'm like, "No." Amy Shinneman: Yeah, Jamie Shinneman: I think that's the vibe. I don't wanna get disqualified. No, Amy Shinneman: you say it nicer than that. Yeah, but- No, thank you. Jamie Shinneman: Um, yeah. Amy Shinneman: People do offer, but not, not a lot. I mean, I think they respect what you're... I mean, it's huge respect for, for you out there, and maybe you experience that too. Mm-hmm. Just, um, which is so encouraging for him and- Jamie Shinneman: Yeah ... Amy Shinneman: um, I think Sydney was the most like comments that you've, you know, gotten and it was so needed that day.

Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. But the, the, a lot of the marathons prior to, to Sydney were flatter and- Mm-hmm not, not as difficult to, to push. Um, so I, I've been able to run with Amy almost, uh, either the same solo or like the Indy Monumental of '22. Our- that's our best time ever, ever was a 3:11. That's faster than I've done solo, so it's, it's all her. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I mean, and well, on the fueling side too. Does- Oh, yeah ... 'cause I remember. Do you help with the fu- You hold the fuel and- Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm ... Ally Brettnacher: give it to him when he needs it and?

Amy Shinneman: He has his water, but I refill waters and I give him his different types of nutrition. I've kinda, you know, throughout the years we've- I've kinda learned like, I bet he needs this now, so I'll ask. Yeah. And, um, usually it's pretty spot on. Sometimes I have to- Yeah ... tell him, "No, I really think..." 'Cause I can tell when he's getting quiet back there. Ally Brettnacher: Mm. Amy Shinneman: And I can't see him, and that makes me nervous, um, just, you know, for him. And so I'll say, "I think, I think you need a little bit extra." Like, you know. Yeah. Sometimes you call me coach, but- Ally Brettnacher: I mean, there you go.

Yeah, you have a coach. What do you mean? Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I picture those. On my bike I have a mirror, like one of those mirrors- Yeah ... so I can see my kids if they're behind me. Mm. It's like, you need one of those. You can like look at his face and be like, "No, I can see your face now." Yeah. "I really know." Amy Shinneman: Funny, my friend said that at dinner last night. She's like- Have a mirror ... "You need a mirror." And I'm like, "I do, you're right." Jamie Shinneman: Sometimes you use your phone, you know, with- Ally Brettnacher: Right, 'cause you Amy Shinneman: can Ally Brettnacher: take pictures and stuff ...

selfies and Amy Shinneman: stuff. Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: But yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Do you have your phone on the front of the bike anywhere? Jamie Shinneman: No. Ally Brettnacher: No. Jamie Shinneman: We need to figure something out, like a GoPro Amy Shinneman: camera too You would think that, yeah, that we, our experience with Abbott- I mean- ... kind of taught us a lot- Yeah ... filming for that. Ally Brettnacher: Right. Yeah. But it's so much, I mean, you travel halfway across the world, like the last thing you need to worry about is how to mount a camera. Yeah. And at the same time it is, it inspires so many, so it's like well- Amy Shinneman: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. That's... Jamie Shinneman: Yeah, so I guess back to pushing, it's You can do it as quick as, as you want. Um, again, as much as, as, as quick as you do it solo. But the hills definitely make it harder. Um, uphill's gonna slow down and, and I have found as I've gotten older too, that I'm walking them more, the uphills. Hmm. Uh, inst- instead of trying to push through it. New York really killed me with the bridges- Mm-hmm ... out there. I tried to just keep running up those and- Amy Shinneman: Right out the Jamie Shinneman: start line ... right off the bat at mile zero, yeah, they get you in New York.

Yeah. But, um, and then at mile 16. But, um, after that I've, like I've gotta preserve- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm Jamie Shinneman: some of my energy and, and that's what we did a lot more on in Sydney- Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ... Jamie Shinneman: with, with so many hills there. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. This is a random aside, but what did you guys do during, during COVID? 'Cause you had this like moment of 2019 where- Mm-hmm ... you're like, "Yes, this is, we can do this. This is so cool," to like, now you can't race at all. Amy Shinneman: Virtual marathon, half marathon. Yeah. I know we did.

Jamie Shinneman: Yeah, there was a Chicago virtual half. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: Um, feel like I did a Eugene Marathon virtual. I think it was- Yeah. Wow ... a half though also. But just, uh, you know, COVID s- said you can't get out and do anything, but I'm like, "I'm, I'm getting out and I'm running." Yeah. You know, I'm not being stuck in this house. Yeah. And, and so I, I kept running through all of that and Amy Shinneman: just enjoyed it. And your Jamie Shinneman: boys were home Amy Shinneman: at that Ally Brettnacher: time. They were in high school- Amy Shinneman: Yeah ...

at that Jamie Shinneman: time? Yeah. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. They- Yeah ... kept running as well. Yeah. I mean, I think if they wouldn't have, I'm not sure that Jamie Shinneman: We would've made it. Amy Shinneman: Well, I mean, having teens during COVID was, was tough- Yeah ... 'cause they didn't wanna stay at home and- Yeah ... but we had to. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. But so New York though was the first one that kinda opened up s- 2021. Their, their 50th was supposed to have been 2020 and it got canceled. Oh, I didn't realize that. So we were able to do the, the 50th- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm Jamie Shinneman: in New York in 2021.

Yeah. So it was weird time, you know. You still had to wear masks. Even at the start line we had our masks on and took them off just as soon as we started. Right. But it was a definitely a weird time- Yeah ... as everyone knows. Yeah. Right. Um- Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah ... Jamie Shinneman: especially in New York City. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, I bet. That's, that's to think about. And then you did the 50th in Berlin. Jamie Shinneman: Yes. Ally Brettnacher: And then I missed you so much in, uh, in Mariekor. But I have you to thank for so much because- Right ...

I would've never, I mean, never say never, but I would, I was not, it was not on my radar to ever consider doing a marathon pushing a duo bike. There was- Mm-hmm ... I was like the half marathon, Ainsley's Angels at the Mini is so great. It's so fun. It's, you know- Jamie Shinneman: Yeah Ally Brettnacher: But you g- you guys inspired me to sign up and do that. I'm like, "You know what? Okay." That's awesome. You know? Love that. If he can do, if he can do this, I can, I can surely do it. I don't have to care about my time. I do it for someone else.

Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Um, and it was just, like, one of, probably one of my most favorite race experiences I've ever had. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: And I was supposed to do it by myself. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: And, um, I was terrified of that. They asked me to. They didn't have enough legs. And so I r- cold reached out to this guy on the internet named Rob Perez- Jamie Shinneman: Hmm Ally Brettnacher: who is basically DC running royalty. Hmm. He had been running every single day a mile for all the days the government had been shut down. Wow. And Oct- whatever date it was, was the 26th day it had been shut down.

And I'm like, "He's not running for time. He's just out there." Yeah. And so I messaged him. I said, "Hey, I'm getting, oh, pretty anxious at this point with the hills." Yeah. And so I'm like, "How can I do this?" And he said, "Sure. Yeah, I'll run a few miles with you." And he ran with me that whole race. Jamie Shinneman: The whole race. Ally Brettnacher: Wow. And he pushed more than I did, which I still have guilt over, but- I was ... I mean, the anxiety I felt- Jamie Shinneman: Yeah ... Ally Brettnacher: that morning of, like, what if I can't get her across the finish line, was, I mean, it was the worst I've ever felt at a start line.

Hmm. Because I felt, you know, this is not my race. Yeah. This is for her, and if I can't do it, she doesn't get a medal. Amy Shinneman: Hmm. Ally Brettnacher: Which turns out, if you can't do it, they send somebody else in, like, to- Okay ... help finish. Interesting. Amy Shinneman: But Ally Brettnacher: anyway. So I thank you so much for giving me that experience because now I, you know, now I'm definitely gonna do it again. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. And when watching your videos and stuff from that were so- Oh ... um, I've definitely cried. Ally Brettnacher: I'm crying Amy Shinneman: from here. It was beautiful.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. It was, it was such a great experience. Yeah. And so if anybody takes anything from this conversation- Yeah ... they need to do it. Do it at least once because, you know, it's difficult, but it's, you know, you get to do this, so why not give that experience to someone else? Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Yeah. It is great to help, help others in that way and- So I, I can't encourage you enough, especially if you've been doing marathons or running and, and maybe you've lost your, I don't know, inspiration, why you're- Mm-hmm ... even out there doing things. Use your gifts for other people.

Ally Brettnacher: Yes. Jamie Shinneman: Um, you'll be not just blessing them, but you'll be blessed- Mm-hmm um, if you can do that. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah, 100%. And it is so different too, having-- I've had one angel rider who I could communicate with verbally. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: And that was at the Indy Mini this year, and that was a whole different experience- Yeah ... too, 'cause being able to- Yeah ... communicate, build a playlist together, like that was really cool. Um, but yeah, it's just such a great, great thing. So out of all of the majors you've done so far, five of them, um, which one is the best for accessibility?

What was your best experience? Amy Shinneman: Different features of the best, like Chicago had the best like, um, prep area- Mm-hmm ... in my opinion, for athletes with disabilities. And then Boston is such a well-oiled machine as far as like the, you know, the, the wheelchair bikes and then they have the duo bikes- The transportation ... and the hand cyclists. Transportation was- Jamie Shinneman: For New York and Boston, they have to- Amy Shinneman: Pretty seamless ... Jamie Shinneman: bus, they gotta bus you- Yeah ... or get you from- Oh, right you know, they're not, they're not circular marathons. Mm-hmm. So you got- they gotta get you to the start line.

Amy Shinneman: Not probably the, the clear-cut answer, but I mean, do you think there's- Jamie Shinneman: No, they, yeah, they're all special in their own, own way. I, I agree with you. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: Um, but the Boston start was, was great. Uh, following the hand cycles I think was probably our best experience. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: Uh, New York was different. Uh, we kinda screwed that up but- Amy Shinneman: We don't truly know what that was supposed to be like for- Yeah ... duo bikes because we were trying to connect with our son because he w- they wouldn't let him- Ugh.

... travel with us to the start line, so we were, you know, just, you know- Right really wanted to start with him. Yeah, I know. And, and somehow we didn't think it was gonna happen, and, and we ended up having a start with just the three of us, so we really don't know. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: Um- Jamie Shinneman: It was kind of our own start. Amy Shinneman: It was pretty Jamie Shinneman: cool. Just the three of us running across that bridge- Yeah ... in Staten Island. Amy Shinneman: Really? All alone, very quiet. Wow. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: With your own thoughts about running up that giant hill.

Right, Ally Brettnacher: then you can say 'em out Amy Shinneman: loud. There's nobody around. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah, but um- Wow ... the, the overseas have been more difficult, um, getting to start lines or being in a accessible area, so Berlin was probably the, the worst- Yeah uh, as far as that goes. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Uh, at least it was a circular marathon. The start and finish were kinda the same place, but... Amy Shinneman: There was no area for athletes with disabilities that we ever knew of or- Jamie Shinneman: Yeah ... Amy Shinneman: it Jamie Shinneman: just- It was only their second time allowing duo teams.

Amy Shinneman: Yeah. And they were very open to listening- Yeah to our, like, I will say that. Um- And maybe it was, like, I guess the worst, but they were... I don't know if they've made changes. We should probably follow up, but Jamie Shinneman: Yeah, yeah. Their, their duo team that tried to put it on were very receptive- Mm-hmm ... like you mentioned. So they wanted it to be better. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: Yes. Ally Brettnacher: Um- Well, yeah, that's back to the point, too. It's like, okay, how can, how can we help make this better? And how does Monumental do? How, how are we compared?

Jamie Shinneman: Uh, they, they do a great job too. Mm-hmm. We ran with, um, the, the CNO group had us do the half marathon last year. Mm-hmm. But that was the year they changed up the start line - Amy Shinneman: Oh, that's right. Yeah Jamie Shinneman: and everything. Yeah. So we, we kinda screwed that up too. We did, Amy Shinneman: we, we did, yes. Uh, Jamie Shinneman: we didn't get there early enough and as you know, and f- um- And it's- So we were at the very back of that pack and had to somehow weave our way through everyone- Oh my goodness ... to get to the front.

Yeah. We didn't make it to the, make it there in time- To get, yeah to start with Logan and f- Dang ... and the others. Yeah. So that w- Amy Shinneman: Yeah. I think they, they have it figured out. We didn't have it figured out. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's hard, too, when, you know, y- they change it. Mm-hmm. 'Cause the change is, is tricky. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Yeah. So but the years before, 2022, I think, was our year that we did it together, uh, f- as a marathon, and it, and it was great. Um, uh, you know, getting to the start, uh- Amy Shinneman: Yeah ...

Jamie Shinneman: right at the begi- they have you go right- Yeah ... ahead of everyone, I feel like. Amy Shinneman: Yeah, and then we saw you at the start of the Indy Mini. Yeah. And so that was a good, also a good setup. Yes. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Yeah. That was good. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, the Mini does, I mean, at least from where I see it, I mean, especially for Ainsley's, they do the NCAA Hall of Champions, and then walk over wherever that huge flag is, and then we all kind of go in- Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm Ally Brettnacher: backwards to the start. Mm-hmm. They figured that out really well, which is nice.

'Cause you're like, wait, how do you, yeah, how do you navigate that, right? Right. They have to, you have to think through that and have a, have a plan for, for you guys. Yeah. Um, what about awards? Now, I know that awards, like, aren't everything, but I also feel like Jamie's slightly competitive. Jamie Shinneman: No. Ally Brettnacher: Do they treat... Duos have their own award category, or do they not? Or does it depend? Jamie Shinneman: Not really. Uh, we, and we're almost kind of treated as an exhibition kind of thing. Um, sometimes I even wonder if she's gonna get her own bib and, and medal, so we always try, make sure that that's going to happen- Amy Shinneman: Yeah Jamie Shinneman: if we're all putting this much effort into it.

Um, but, uh, yeah, there, I don't think there's a separate award. Uh- I think Amy Shinneman: they have the finish times listed in a separate category, but Jamie Shinneman: I mean- But there's, you know, you're not gonna win Ally Brettnacher: Like first place in the duo. I, I mean, I feel like that should- Amy Shinneman: Yeah ... exist. I mean, they do it- Some places do ... separately kind of. Like, they'll, they'll have me in a category under duo, right? Like, 'cause I- Jamie Shinneman: I feel like each, each, uh, marathon's different- Yeah ... in how they- I could Amy Shinneman: see that ... Jamie Shinneman: do the, the placing- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm ...

of Jamie Shinneman: people. Ally Brettnacher: Was I... In the whole para-athlete world, is that a category that you're in, a para-athlete? I, I feel so ignorant. Amy Shinneman: I don't- But- ... think so because I'm not actually, you know, doing the athletic part of it. Part? Okay. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Maybe that makes sense. Yeah. 'Cause even for, for para-athletes what I've discovered too is it's, it seems to vary or not exist, and I just find that- Hmm ... find that interesting. I've interviewed a guy who's 80- Hmm and he's still doing marathons. Hmm. He has Parkinson's, and a lot of races are 80 and up are the, is the category for the awards.

Okay. And he's like- Amy Shinneman: Hmm ... Ally Brettnacher: like, "Come on, you... I, I'm racing these people that are 80. I'm, you know, I'm up here. Can you change it?" Hmm. Or like 75 up maybe it is. Anyway. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: I digress. But I just think it's, you know, everybody deserves the same experience. I don't know. Amy Shinneman: Sure. Ally Brettnacher: So. Amy Shinneman: We agree. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. So last year's Monumental, let's talk about Humbly Courageous- Okay ... and the organization that is now officially a nonprofit. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: And how that came to be, and then the race last year was your first race as a family of four, correct?

Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm, Jamie Shinneman: yeah. Ally Brettnacher: So I wanna hear what that was like too. Jamie Shinneman: Well, um, yeah, Humbly Courageous, Amy has really ... She's the one that coined that, that term and, and started her blog, um, with that title for- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm ... Jamie Shinneman: since 2019, I think. And, uh, ultimately, now it has turned into a, what kind of became our running team name in 2022. I think it was when we did our first marathon together. We said, "Why don't we call our team Humbly Courageous" And we got, you know, 50 different people signed up to run that with us that year, and, and that's where it's, has started to grow and, and started thinking, you know, could this turn into something more than just a running team, maybe a, a nonprofit in some way?

We've, we've always had this, um, desire to want to be able to gift a duo bike to someone else 'cause that's- Mm ... that's what happened for us in- Mm-hmm ... 2019 just before Chicago. Uh, one of our corporate donors, you know just, "Hey, we'd love to get you guys your own- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. " Jamie Shinneman: bike." Wow. And I, I can't tell you how much that meant to us. Just so we wanna be able to do that- Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. For other Jamie Shinneman: people ... uh, eventually, yeah, for, for someone. Ally Brettnacher: How much does a bike cost? Jamie Shinneman: Uh, back when we got ours it was 5,000.

They're up to around 6,000 now, de- depending on if you add extra, you know, wheel covers or lettering and- Mm ... you know, things to personalize it. Yeah. Um- Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ... Jamie Shinneman: so. Yeah. Um, yeah, get- I guess getting back to the Monumental of, of last year, it was the first time that we'd been able to race with me and Amy and then our two boys, Luke and Jack. Uh, all four of us kind of together and sticking together. And we decided as well to let's get our community involved again and, you know, you and- Amy Shinneman: Yeah Jamie Shinneman: a lot of others, uh, joined us again as, as Team Humbly Courageous just to help raise awareness- Amy Shinneman: Yeah ...

Jamie Shinneman: um, you know, for muscular dystrophy and other people with, with disabilities. Get out there and do things like this. Use your gifts. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Not me over here getting emotional. Yeah, that was special with our boys and Just seeing them, like, all around me was really cool Ally Brettnacher: Right. Yeah. And those pictures, oh, with the- ... Amy Shinneman: confetti Ally Brettnacher: cannons and like I just- ... love it so much. That was awesome. I mean, it's just so incredible- Yeah ... to be able to have that experience- Yeah ... that you never thought that you would have. Yeah. Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: It was one of the first times that I had allow, you know, allowed someone else to push Amy.

Right. Okay. You know, um, I didn't have to worry about being disqualified or, but, uh, so to let the boys, I think it was when we were running around the, the Speedway, the Indy Motor Speedway, uh, that they got to do it. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: And so I'm running there, like, solo, and that felt so weird. Amy Shinneman: Yeah, you didn't like it, Jamie Shinneman: you said. I didn't like it. I like pushing her. That Ally Brettnacher: would be very, a very weird feeling, yeah. Jamie Shinneman: And then- I Ally Brettnacher: could Jamie Shinneman: see that ... and then I think Luke went first pushing you for a little bit, and then Jack and- Ally Brettnacher: Did you have a plan in place where you're like, "Okay, we're each gonna do a mile and rotate," or you just kinda went by how Jamie Shinneman: you were feeling?

Just kinda how we, how we were feeling. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we didn't wanna to force that on them 'cause it obviously is very different and, you know, part of your experience with, like, pushing is different, but, um, because you often are meeting the person- For, yeah ... yeah ... Ally Brettnacher: for the first time. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. And- That Ally Brettnacher: day or the day before, yeah Amy Shinneman: yeah. But our-- Which is awesome in its own way. Um, but, like, our just, like, unspoken language that we have, like, it's a comfort for me to, to know that we've trained and done this together, and then our boys didn't, don't really have a, a ton of experience pushing, and so you worry.

I know I, I worry 'cause I'm mom. Mom. Like, I, I don't wanna hurt them or, you know. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: But it was also at the same time just awesome to have each of them behind me and, and have that experience. So Ally Brettnacher: yeah. Amy Shinneman: I'm not sure either one of them are ex- would be excited to do a whole half marathon or something pushing me. I think they realize how hard it is. Yeah. Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Well, Dad makes it look easy. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Yeah, and they're both very proud of, of their dad, and like encouraging and- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Shinneman: Yeah ... Amy Shinneman: you know, blown away that he's able to do this at his old age- His age of 53 ... Jamie Shinneman: as they like to call Amy Shinneman: it. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. So do you have a team this year for Monumental? Jamie Shinneman: We don't. Um, but our youngest, Jack, is running, running it. It's his first. He wanted to do his first marathon, so he's- Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm ... been Jamie Shinneman: training. We'll be there Amy Shinneman: cheering him on. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Oh, I love it. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Well, he'll just have to come on the podcast.

Amy Shinneman: Oh, he would love that. Ally Brettnacher: Get you all, the whole family. I'll go for it all. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Yeah. So we're, we're excited for him. He's, uh, training's going well for him. Him and a, and a friend of his, uh, are gonna do it together. Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. That's awesome. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Yeah. He's just what? 19 now. Ally Brettnacher: Jeez. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Where they can, you know, they probably could get out there and do it without training, but- Ally Brettnacher: Right Jamie Shinneman: Right ... at this age. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Do it with their Jamie Shinneman: eyes closed. We're, we're excited for him.

But the reason we're not is we're kind of trying to recover from, um, Australia- Yep ... and then looking forward to potentially doing our next one here. Amy Shinneman: Yeah, and just being there for him, like- Yeah ... for his first marathon, just as a support, I think is awesome, too. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Okay. Well, what's, what's your spectating plan? Are you gonna make signs? We Jamie Shinneman: gotta figure that Ally Brettnacher: out. Jamie Shinneman: You Ally Brettnacher: need suggestions? Amy Shinneman: I've thought about signs. Jamie Shinneman: I've never been like Amy Shinneman: on the side of it. Different ... I know, right?

That'll be a whole new... Like, you're gonna have like So Ally Brettnacher: much FOMO. Yeah. Yeah. We're just gonna be out there. We're- Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Can I join Amy Shinneman: you, Jack? We probably both will- Yeah actually, once we're there, but- Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: Great ... I, yeah, I've got some signs in mind, and I think just ... I don't know. We're, I was thinking how are we gonna- Jamie Shinneman: He, he wants us at all the, you know, a lot of places and I, I didn't even know what to do. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Well, good. I can, I can help with that.

I need some pointers. Give you a strategy here. We need, we need a strategy. I love spectating. I think spectating is its own sport- Mm-hmm ... because especially when people have kids, like my husband's brought my kids out to cheer for me. That's a whole, you know, experience. Mm-hmm. When you're running, you worry, you know, you're worried about yourself or- Mm in this case, you know, you're worried about each other. But yeah, it, it's so fun though. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Like, people come out with their Halloween candy that's left over. People make funny signs or wear costumes. I mean, it's- Yeah ... but yeah, you gotta embarrass him somehow.

Just picturing his, like a giant face. Yeah. People like to do that. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Um, balloons is another really good strategy because people don't do it a lot. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: So if you have a balloon that y- can see from further away- Oh, that's a good idea ... uh, I really like that as a strategy. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: Um- Okay. Amy Shinneman: Cool ... Ally Brettnacher: so eventually, you know, can you imagine all the balloons that people have? Yeah. Okay, look for this balloon. Well, there was three of them. Yeah. Like, what am I supposed to do?

But yeah, in Indy it's a lot easier obviously- Yeah ... 'cause I wish we had more spectators than we do, but- Jamie Shinneman: Yeah ... Ally Brettnacher: depends on the weather. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: Depends a lot on the weather. So yeah. Well, good. We'll have to talk offline about that. Okay. Give you some good spectating spots. Fortunately, it's, you know, it's not so big. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: You know? It's, it's big, but it's not, you know, unmanageable to find him in a few spots. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I missed a big part of the story. You found somebody in Sydney who has Bethlem myopathy, the same form of muscular dystrophy as you have.

Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: How did you, how did you find her? And then you have to tell us what that was like being able to- Amy Shinneman: Yeah ... Ally Brettnacher: to meet her in Sydney. It's unbelievable. Amy Shinneman: We met on Instagram somehow, both of us, like about six years ago. We both write blogs, and I think we must have come across, you know, somehow we showed up I don't, I don't, we don't remember, so. But we met online and, um, meeting, I'd never met someone face to face like with Bethlem myopathy and, um, I'd met people online, lots of great people and, but she and I, she's 27, so much younger than me- Mm ...

but we formed this relationship, then we'd figure out the time difference and me calling like, you know, video calling or whatever. It's probably really old. That probably makes me sound old. We were- Ally Brettnacher: Face to face ... we were taping. We're on the taping. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. On MySpace. Ally Brettnacher: Oh, dear. Amy Shinneman: And so, you know, we'd talked several times throughout the years, and we'd always dreamed about meeting, but it seemed, you know, sort of- Jamie Shinneman: Far-fetched? ... Amy Shinneman: like something we would just dream about. Right. And, and then Jamie, you know, was like, we got into Sydney, and so I told her, and she's like, "No way." And so she lives about eight hours from Sydney- Okay ...

and the place is called Toowoomba ... so it wasn't easy trip for her either then. Jamie Shinneman: By, by driving, Amy Shinneman: yeah. And so it wasn't gonna be easy for her to get there, but, um, her parents both ended up coming with her to support her and make this happen. And, um, we were both-- So we got there, and I was having trouble staying awake on the first day, and so we were like, "Wait, we can talk like we're in the same time zone." So she's like, I hopped on, she was making dinner, and we were just chatting and, um, so that was like the first, like we're actually really close, and then the next day we knew we were meeting, and it, it was like Christmas morning.

I mean, we were both nervous but like excited and- Yeah ... um, just sitting there waiting for them, like looking through the crowds and like it felt like... And then suddenly there she was, and it was just hard to explain, like what that feels like to... I mean, in my everyday life, I don't see people like me. Like, uh, you know, growing up, like my whole life, I've just like, there's a level of understanding there that's like unspoken that I don't get regularly. Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Amy Shinneman: And that's so important for all of us, no matter what we're dealing with, right? That we have, um, obviously Jamie's an amazing like support and like the person I tell the most to and, um, but he doesn't live with Bethlem myopathy and- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm ...

Amy Shinneman: and so just being around in someone else's presence where I-- And for her too, like it just we, it just felt very N- I don't know. There's no, there's no, like, words that are great Jamie Shinneman: enough ... the same wavelength. Um, I don't know, did you feel like you were looking at yourself, you know, your 27-year-old self at all or- Amy Shinneman: Yeah, uh, I- ... and seeing Jamie Shinneman: her ... Amy Shinneman: I, I think just, like, watching, like he took a video. I don't know if you saw it. Yeah, Ally Brettnacher: I saw it, I saw it. Yeah, I can't think about it.

I'll cry. Amy Shinneman: Um, I wanted that doc- you know, to have that documented. And just some of our mannerisms I felt were ... or the way we kinda move. Subtle things that maybe people not living with the disease wouldn't notice, but we both did, and, you know, we were kinda watching each other, and like, we were able to stroll along by each other and- That's Jamie Shinneman: what was cool. I mean- Yeah ... me and her dad were pushing them, and, you know, we're gonna have them be side by side- Yeah ... so they could talk to each other. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: I mean, so much of a wheelchair user's life, they're having to look back and- Mm-hmm ...

talk to somebody- Yep ... or I'm talking down at her head or- Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm ... Jamie Shinneman: so that was kinda cool. And we made the crowds, you're gonna part around us. You know, we're, we're going right here. Ally Brettnacher: We're going here. You can go wherever else you'd like- Yeah ... or you can get run over, but you choose. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. So that was, you know, us meeting- That's wonderful ... obviously was great for us, but, uh, uh, uh, totally so many things, like she was able to see a relationship, um, us being married- I was gonna ask you about that and like, gave her hope.

Mm. Um, and she wrote such a beautiful piece about our meeting and- Jamie Shinneman: Yeah ... Amy Shinneman: um- Ally Brettnacher: Oh, I'll have to go find that. What is her name? How do you say her name? Amy Shinneman: Uh, Rhi. Rhi. Mm-hmm, yeah. Rhiannon is her name- Rhiannon ... but she goes by Rhi. Um, and she- She talked to us about how that seeing us together gave us, her so much hope that she could have a relationship. Yes. Like, you know, we're ... Yes, Jamie is my caregiver, but that's our, our relationship is what stands out first. Yeah. I mean, it's just kind of ...

And then seeing her parents were so appreciative to like meet someone older than her that, you know, is married, has kids- Yeah ... and like that gave them a lot of hope. And I mean, her dad like, it was a very short, we only had a couple days and her dad hugged me, and we were all crying- Yeah ... saying goodbye, and he just thanked me, and I thanked me, and like that was ... Yeah. You could just tell it was very meaningful- Yeah ... to all of us in our own ways. And- Jamie Shinneman: Yeah ... Amy Shinneman: I don't know. You can speak for what, how you felt about it.

Jamie Shinneman: Oh, it was, it was great to, to be there and be a part of that, um, for them to experience the stuff that we were doing. Um, for a race like that, we were able to take Ree. I put her in the duo bike- Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm ... Jamie Shinneman: to let her experience a little- That's cool ... tool around the promenade there- Amy Shinneman: Yeah Jamie Shinneman: which I think she enjoyed feeling the wind. Amy Shinneman: She wrote about that too, like that ... Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: To- Amy Shinneman: You'll have to Jamie Shinneman: read ... I don't know if she'll ever wanna do something like that, but, uh, I think it even inspired her dad a little bit- Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm ...

Jamie Shinneman: to like get out and start running. Ally Brettnacher: Right. Yeah. After. I Jamie Shinneman: mean, Ally Brettnacher: 5K, you know? Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Yeah. He, he had never ... It wasn't on his radar. But it sounded like after our visit, he maybe started doing a little running. Ally Brettnacher: That's great. That, I mean, that'd be Jamie Shinneman: so Ally Brettnacher: incredible. Jamie Shinneman: He's- Mm-hmm ... her p- her parents are our age, um- Amy Shinneman: Yeah ... Jamie Shinneman: in their 50s as well, so. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. And after the race, it was great because her dad actually like came and they met us, and i- i- I mean, you were done by that point, so her dad pushed me through, and never had pushed a- Oh, that was but it was, he was a na- Such a gift ...

I'm like, "You're a natural," you know? Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amy Shinneman: But yeah, I think it did inspire him a lot, and maybe one day they'll run a race together. Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: It's hard to think about too, meeting somebody like Ree, also knowing, you know, you probably won't get a chance like that. Mm-hmm. Like you never thought you would have the chance- Mm-hmm ... and so what a gift, but also so hard- Amy Shinneman: Yeah ... Ally Brettnacher: I'm sure it was to, to say goodbye to her and- Amy Shinneman: Yeah, I Ally Brettnacher: mean, Amy Shinneman: I don't know if we'll see each other ever again Right ...

and that part of it is, you know, hard. Um, but you know, I think, like I said, she felt very inspired by us, but we also felt very inspired by her. She's a, a really gifted young lady, and I love seeing... I had a very different perspective on my disability growing up. Um, I, like I said, I very much had a chip on my shoulder. A lot of that I attribute to not having a diagnosis and struggling with all the uncertainty and, and so I had to... But she's, she's so comfortable, and I just admire anyone that's able to, you know, at, at, at a you- a young age, like embrace their disability and see it for, as a tool to like help in the world or like share a different perspective, um, and to show that people with disabilities just really are people and humans and- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm Amy Shinneman: we just have to do things in a different way.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Has she ever come to you for dating advice? I feel like six years, that's a long time. Has she ever, you know- Amy Shinneman: Uh- Like a- ... we have definitely talked about it. Um, she's done some dating, and I just encourage her, just be yourself. Like, that's s- most important. If somebody doesn't, like, I mean, I definitely dated people that weren't totally comfortable with my disability, and that person wasn't for me. I mean- Yep ... there are, there is someone out there that disability, while it needs to be acknowledged because it affects everything we do, there's so many other beautiful parts to her that, um, go right along with her disability, right?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So to s- find someone that loves all of it is, is definitely a possibility. Ally Brettnacher: Man, you guys are incredible, really. Um- Jamie Shinneman: So are you. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Well, Jamie Shinneman: thank you. Everything you- Everything, gosh ... do. Amy Shinneman: Yes ... Jamie Shinneman: this community that you inspire. Just trying to keep Ally Brettnacher: up with you guys. Um, so I'm gonna ask you the end of the podcast questions. Jamie Shinneman: Okay. Ally Brettnacher: Um, Amy's answered them a couple years ago, so they're gonna be different now, so you can answer both of them again. But Jamie, we'll start with you.

First question is, what is your favorite running mantra and/or song? Jamie Shinneman: Um, we talked about this a little bit. Um, uh, maybe it's a song for s- or songs we- ... for us in training. We get in the car, we drive 30 minutes to go to, to get to the Monon, so it's, uh, for whatever reason, James Blunt, all the Lost Souls album is the one that we like to play. It's maybe cheesy, and- Amy Shinneman: Do you know who James Blunt Ally Brettnacher: is? I do, yeah. You do? Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Oh, good. I'm trying to think of- Jamie Shinneman: It's not like a pump you up kind of- No, not at all running music or anything, but Ally Brettnacher: it's- What is his, like, biggest song?

Amy Shinneman: Um- Jamie Shinneman: What's his single? You're Beautiful, I think. That's Ally Brettnacher: what I was gonna guess. Yeah. You're Amy Shinneman: Beautiful. Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: But he's got- But this is the album that's not that one. Amy Shinneman: He's got so many Ally Brettnacher: others. So many. It's great. I'm sure I know other ones, but that's the one that- Yeah Jamie Shinneman: I was wondering about. I don't know why, but- It's pretty Amy Shinneman: mellow ... Jamie Shinneman: it's pretty mellow. It's just- Amy Shinneman: Pump me up. Jamie Shinneman: I don't know. You're trying to get ready for a long run.

For me, I'm trying to get maybe more- Um, relaxed or not pumped up. Amy Shinneman: Right Jamie Shinneman: Um, so I- Amy Shinneman: We're, we're not really, you don't want to listen to music while running, which is crazy 'cause you're such a music guy. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah, that's true. And s- somebody had... There's some marathons they don't let you run with music I had heard. Um, so I never wanted to become, like, dependent on it. Ally Brettnacher: Right. Jamie Shinneman: So that's the reason I- Never Ally Brettnacher: did, yeah. So- So never for any of your marathons? Jamie Shinneman: No, I, I can't run with those things in my ear.

Yeah, that hurts, actually. They bounce out. Or, yeah. Um, I know there's the Shokz or whatever now- Right ... but, um- Ally Brettnacher: No, you don't need it. You don't. Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. It's, Ally Brettnacher: yeah. Jamie Shinneman: I just do a lot-- When I'm solo, it's more like praying and things like that. Yeah. But/or communicating with Amy when we're together, just enjoying the, you know, why you're out there and the scenery. Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Is there anything you say to yourself, like, in your, like, to repeat to give you strength when it, like, when you're in the hills of Sydney? Jamie Shinneman: Oh, just pray- Just pray ...

praying to God really, you know, just to- Just praying ... Amy Shinneman: feel Jamie Shinneman: me, Amy Shinneman: feel my lungs We have a, we have a motion, a fist bump that- Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: Oh, yeah. Jamie Shinneman: When I get to the top she'll, she'll put her arm, her hand up and I'll punch it. Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Do you ever not punch it? I feel like Jamie Shinneman: I cannot Ally Brettnacher: lift my arm. Jamie Shinneman: Only if I didn't see it. Right. You know? Okay. Yeah. Um- Amy Shinneman: It's just kind of a, like, what we do before we start running, and then after the hard parts, and at the end.

Jamie Shinneman: At, uh, g- going uphills, um, when we're training a lot- Yeah ... she'll do funny things to, you know, pretend like she's casting a- ... you know, a fishing pole or something, or- Or- ... or she's, she's moving the wheels with her arms- That's funny. She's like, "I'll help Ally Brettnacher: you." ... or Jamie Shinneman: something. Yeah. Just one second. Yeah, so that's helpful. Great. Yeah, Ally Brettnacher: I like Jamie Shinneman: that. Um, so I'm like, "Not, don't make me laugh too much- Yeah. ... you know, when I'm trying to push up the hill." Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, takes, takes the breath away, yeah.

What about for you, Amy? You answered this before, but it s- might have changed. Amy Shinneman: Yeah, I don't remember what I said. I don't either, actually. I don't know. I don't think we have a, a special other than the, the fist bump thing. Like, we just, we try to talk about stuff, number one, that, like, takes up a lot of time or just it's changed our relationship. So I don't know that we have a specific mantra, but we just have a deeper part of our relationship that we never had before. Yeah ... Jamie Shinneman: just, uh, what? Encouraging people to live beyond your limits.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Um, live humbly courageous. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Those kind of things. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Humbly courageous is considered our mantra for sure. Jamie Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Ally Brettnacher: And then the next question is, what is your next finish line and/or milestone? Jamie Shinneman: Well, we've been accepted to run the Tokyo Marathon- for March. Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: And, uh, we have signed up for it and paid the fee to do it, so. Amy Shinneman: Okay ... Jamie Shinneman: now it's a matter of are we gonna really, really do this? It's gonna mean winter training that's like Boston was.

Right ... that was her first time training through the winter. It's real- really hard for both. Mm-hmm. We're a lot more- You wanna make sure Amy Shinneman: you're healthy too. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Like, you Amy Shinneman: know. I've got, Jamie Shinneman: I've got- we'd have to start training like Thanksgiving weekend to start that- Right ... 14 weeks, but, uh- So Amy Shinneman: soon? Jamie Shinneman: So soon. Ally Brettnacher: So that's like in- Let's not talk about it. Um, wow, that's really exciting. Yeah. But I can f- I, I would imagine, I don't know how it feels, but I would imagine it also feels daunting somewhat after what you just experienced- Mm-hmm traveling halfway across the world.

Jamie Shinneman: Yeah, but now we know we can do it. We've done Amy Shinneman: it, Jamie Shinneman: yeah. Yeah. And we did it on our own this time. Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Uh, we didn't have folks go with us and help us carry all that stuff. Yeah. So that was a big, a big thing- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm ... Jamie Shinneman: um, that we accomplished. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh, Tokyo. Jamie Shinneman: And it's not as far as Sydney. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Right. Jamie Shinneman: It's far, but not as far. Ally Brettnacher: It's a little closer. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's really exciting.

Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. Jamie Shinneman: And it's flatter. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. There's some, there's some weird turns though I feel like, 'cause I've tracked people on the app and it confuses me. Really? Jamie Shinneman: I haven't looked at the course yet- Mm. Oh, interesting ... but other than to know it's flatter, that's all I cared about. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, yeah. There, it's... Well, if you have people going with you, it is a more, I think, spectator friendly because there's some little out and back- Mm ... type situations. Jamie Shinneman: Okay. Ally Brettnacher: Which would mean that it would be, you know, they get to see you more than once- Mm-hmm I believe.

Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: But that'd be cool. Jamie Shinneman: But- It's another one of these that's not a circular one, so the start- Yeah ... and finish are so far apart, which makes it so hard for our logistics. Yeah. Like, do we- That's hard ... we like to stay in a hotel close to the finish line- Right ... 'cause I'm usually dead by then. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But then you gotta figure out how do you get to the, to the start line. Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Right. Jamie Shinneman: Again, the Boston, New York do it well. They bus you there, but- Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ... Jamie Shinneman: overseas we've had to figure out our own way to- Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm ...

Jamie Shinneman: get not only us, but the duo bike- Ally Brettnacher: Right. Mm-hmm ... Jamie Shinneman: to the start line somehow. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. We need to-- So what tech, type of engineer are you, Jamie? Jamie Shinneman: A civil engineer. Ally Brettnacher: Civil. So, 'cause I'm thinking like, somebody's gotta build a treadmill. Hear me out. Sounds dangerous, but I've seen like huge treadmills that are like the length of like or like the width of a street. Jamie Shinneman: Hmm. Ally Brettnacher: Mm. And it's like, wouldn't that be nice if you could go to a gym and run on a treadmill? Amy Shinneman: In the winter.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: Yeah. Jamie Shinneman: Oh yeah, I guess I hadn't thought about that. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I wonder if that exists. Jamie Shinneman: I'm just normally not a treadmill person in general. Right. Well, you probably Ally Brettnacher: wouldn't Jamie Shinneman: love it, but- I'm out at zero degrees running. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Sounds nice to me. Yeah. So, you know. I was thinking- It's a Jamie Shinneman: good idea. Right. That's more of a mechanic Ally Brettnacher: one. Mechan- I was like, that's why, that's why I asked. Okay. Um, and then milestone, you're gonna celebrate 30 years of marriage soon, right? Like in 57- Well, 27 tomorrow, yeah.

Soon. 27 tomorrow. Yeah. So have you thought about that yet? I mean, I guess you got, you got a ways to go, but- Amy Shinneman: Yeah Ally Brettnacher: it's a big milestone. Amy Shinneman: Mm-hmm. It is. No, I haven't thought about that. No, we Jamie Shinneman: haven't started planning. Amy Shinneman: We're still trying to figure out what we're doing tomorrow. Jamie Shinneman: Yeah. Amy Shinneman: This morning he's Jamie Shinneman: like- Yeah ... "What are we doing?" We've always thought, uh- Uh ... Hawaii might be cool to see. Uh, that's, that's where we wanted to d- go on our- Amy Shinneman: We gotta stop running marathons- Yeah so we can go on an actual vacation.

Right. Yeah. Ally Brettnacher: It's like, what would that be like? Yeah. Like traveling and then like relaxing. Yeah. What the- No Jamie Shinneman: more running, Jamie. Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, I can't wait to watch you gear up for Tokyo and cheer you on from afar, but you really have inspired me so much. I'm grateful- for our friendship and that I- Yeah ... that I know both of you, um- Yeah ... that I've gotten to be on Team Humbly Courageous. SHINNEMANS - Amy Audio: Yeah. Thank you so much. Ally Brettnacher: Thank you so much. Thank you for doing this. Yes. And thank you to everybody who has listened, and happy running.

SHINNEMANS - Amy Audio: Well, thank you. Thank you so much. We appreciate you so much Speaker 7: You made it to the finish line of this episode. Thanks for listening. I'm so excited about this weekend. Ah. There are so many people to shout out, and that's why Mary from Average Athlete and I created a way for you to tell us about your upcoming finish lines and milestones. Doesn't have to be Indy related, doesn't have to be, even running related. We wanna be able to have a place where we can celebrate our community so that everybody feels celebrated. So good luck to everybody racing this weekend, Safe travels to everybody.

Look at all the stuff in the show notes. My brain is still working somewhat, but I hope I get to meet some of you in person for the first time too. Make sure you say hi and, assume that I don't know your name because I'm trying, but I suck. So I do, I do my best. thanks for listening. Happy running. I will see you next week.

Ally Brettnacher