Episode 67: Nathaniel Lam - From Cancer at Age 26 to 26.2

Episodes

Aug 2

Nathaniel "Cheezy" Lam was diagnosed with testicular cancer at 26 while living in Macau. Five years later he's cancer free, a two-time marathoner and a run club leader in Tulsa.

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About this episode

Nathaniel Lam, known on Instagram as Cheezy, was born in the United States, grew up in Macau, moved to Tulsa at 14, and earned his master's in Colorado before returning to Macau for a research job. There, at 26, he was diagnosed with stage 1B testicular cancer after a year of symptoms that several doctors missed. He kept the diagnosis off social media for three years, and a lifelong friend's suggestion to run a marathon after recovery became the outlet that pulled him out of a very low place.

Nathan went from run-walking 30 minutes in a Tulsa park to running the Vancouver Marathon and the Chicago Marathon in the same year, and he now leads runs for the Fleet Feet run club in Tulsa. We talk about the symptoms young men should watch for, why monthly self-checks matter, the mental weight of scan days, finding community, working on speed, his favorite small running brands, and why he keeps smiling every mile.

In this episode, we discuss

Growing up in Macau and what makes its mix of Western and Chinese culture unique
Moving to Tulsa at 14 after a family member had a stroke
Studying and doing research at the University of Colorado in Denver
Returning to Macau and being diagnosed with stage 1B testicular cancer at 26
The early symptoms doctors missed and why young men should do monthly self-checks
Going through surgery and six months of care far from his mom and sister
Scan anxiety and keeping his diagnosis private for three years
Why he waited for the five-year mark to celebrate being cancer free
His first run-walk at Tulsa's Gathering Place along the Arkansas River
Finding the Fleet Feet run club and building from 5K to marathon training groups
Running his first marathon in Vancouver with a friend and beating the bridge cutoff
Getting into the Chicago Marathon lottery on his first try
Working on speed with his coach and a big 10K improvement
How he got his nickname Cheezy and why he always smiles in race photos
Brands he loves, including Scratch Labs, Squirrel's Nut Butter, SunGod and New Balance

Chapters

Intro
Growing up in Macau
How he got the name Cheezy
Moving to the United States at 14
Colorado and a return to Macau
A cancer diagnosis at 26
Symptoms and why self-checks matter
Treatment and the five-year mark
Mental health and finding running
Joining a run club
First marathon in Vancouver
The Chicago Marathon
Leading runs and working on speed
Favorite running brands and fuel
Mantra, song and the World Majors

Where to find Nathaniel

Instagram: @cheezy_run

Mentioned in this episode

Races: Vancouver Marathon, Chicago Marathon, Philadelphia Marathon, Tulsa Run 15K, Route 66 Marathon, Monumental Marathon, San Francisco Marathon, Abbott World Marathon Majors
Organizations and charities: Fleet Feet, University of Colorado, Gathering Place, Athlete Bouquets
Other: Scratch Labs, Spring Energy, Squirrel's Nut Butter, SunGod, New Balance, On Cloudsurfer, "Fight Song" by Rachel Platten, "Unstoppable" by Sia

Previous guests mentioned

Ashley Haynes (Episode 38)

Related episodes

Frequently asked

Who is Cheezy Run on Instagram?

Cheezy Run is Nathaniel Lam, a Tulsa runner and five-year testicular cancer survivor who started running during recovery and shares his story to encourage other cancer patients.

When was Nathaniel Lam diagnosed with cancer?

Nathaniel Lam was diagnosed with stage 1B testicular cancer at age 26 while living and working in Macau, after a year of symptoms that several doctors could not explain.

What marathons has Nathaniel Lam run?

Nathaniel Lam ran his first marathon in Vancouver in May 2023 and his second at the Chicago Marathon that October, after getting into the Chicago lottery on his first try.

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Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically, so it may contain errors.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones with Allie Brettnacker. Incredible stories and tales of triumphs with everyday people achieving their goals and fitness. This podcast brought to you by Athlete Bouquets. Celebrate finish lines and milestones of the people that you love by visiting athletebouquets.com. Hello and welcome. To episode 67, this is Allie Brettnacker and I did it. I finally pulled the trigger and signed up for a fall marathon. I am not doing the women's marathon in Savannah on November 16th, but instead I am doing our very own CNO Indianapolis Montano Marathon on November 9th. And thankfully my friend Ashley Haynes also signed up. You may remember she helped pace me to my half marathon PR last year and so now I'm hoping she can help me do that for my full marathon.

We shall see what the last couple years of speed work have done for my full marathon distance. I'm just really looking forward to seeing what I can do and hopefully having great weather and having so much fun. So Hooray. Please join me if you haven't made a decision on a fall marathon or if you haven't come to Indy before. There's certainly other distances available as well. We have a 5. K and 1/2. So come on down. And then this week, actually yesterday, as I record this on August 1st, yesterday, July 31st was my oldest daughter's birthday. She turned 7 years old. And it's weird to say, but if you haven't listened to podcast episodes that I've been on where I've told my story about giving birth to my first daughter, it also marks seven years ago where I.

Nearly died it was. Quite a traumatic experience and so weirdly enough, every time Sydney celebrates a birthday, I think about it whether I want to or not. There's definitely some PTSD there, but I just am so grateful to not only be alive, but to have given life to such an amazing little girl. She's the best. We had so much fun celebrating her and. Yeah, I can't believe I've been a mom for seven years. It's wild. So, you know, Speaking of kind of life and death situations, I met this week's guest, Nathan Lamb via Instagram. Nathan is a five year cancer survivor. He was diagnosed with testicular cancer when he was only 26 years old and he sees it as a silver lining.

Ultimately, that got him into the sport of running, so and that's what led him to to run a couple marathons last year, his first. So I think you're really gonna enjoy hearing Nathan's story and getting to know Nathan. I must tell you, the audio for this sounded so much better when I was actually doing the recording itself, but it translated not so great. So I hope it's listenable because again, Nathan is so inspiring and I know that this story will, will inspire somebody. So I, I certainly hope that you can get through it. Apologies for that technology at its finest, but please join me in welcoming Nathan Lamb.

Good morning. Good morning, Allie. Good morning. It's so good to finally see your face in sort of real life. It's kind of real. It's still real life. So you are calling in from Tulsa, OK, is that right? No, I'm actually in California right now. You're in. California right now. Visiting my family SO. OK, so it's your family that has this like amazing sword that people can't see and the ducks on the wall behind you. I. Didn't even see realize that either until. Yeah, super cool. I was gonna be like, wow, Nathan, what do you do when you don't run none of your stuff? Oh, well, that's fun.

What part of California? Well, like Orange County South, OK, yeah. So you didn't want to. Oh, no, That was San Fran. I was going to say you didn't want to run the LA Marathon, but it was San Francisco Marathon yesterday. Yeah. That's a little far from where you are. Oh, I know. Yeah. So you grew up, though not in Tulsa and not in California, You grew up overseas, right? And I had to Google all the flags you have in your Instagram profile because I did not know a single one of them. I should have known Indonesia and Portugal. But. So tell us about yeah, where you've lived.

So, so I actually, I was, I was born in the United States, but then my family basically moved to Macau. That's where I'm 'cause that's where my name is from. And that's where this work kind of brought him back there. And so that's where I kind of grew up for like 14 years, 15 years of my life. So from like, I think one, one or two, and then up to like I was 1415. Wow, yeah that's English is not my first language. Well, your English is great, which is good for both of us 'cause doing Zoom or, you know, Riverside and having that thick of an accent would be tough.

But you definitely sound like you're from somewhere else. I don't even know. This is embarrassing, Nathan. I don't know where Macau is. I don't know where that is. Macau is like, so you know, Hong Kong, OK, So it's sort of basically sort of yeah. So it's basically next to it. So it's like it's like South of China, like that's where it is. But it's, how would I say it like it's so it's like it has like the Western mix of culture plus a Asian, like the Chinese mix of culture. Interesting. Yeah. So it's so so it's where because so for history, it's like because it was ruled by Portuguese before it returned back to China.

So like that's where all the Western influence is from. Comes from. Gotcha. So did you learn English while you were growing up in Macau? Yeah, I did 'cause I, I went to like an English school. Like like, yeah, an English school. So yeah, wow. And is it like an island country? What's the landscape? I mean like, I won't say it's like an island, 'cause. It's I need to Google it. Yeah, it's still like, 'cause it's connected to like the, the border of like China, like Guang, like Guangdong province. So it's, it's still connected. It's not really an island, but like it's. Oh, I see. OK.

Wow, that's fascinating. I had no idea. I've learned so much already. And then and then. So it's kind of a mix of the Western and Asian cultures. And did you also live in Portugal and Indonesia? Or are. Those represented because of their cultures. It's represented because my mom is like Chinese Indonesian so and there's like Chinese Portuguese at the same time. So that's how that's how the flag comes in to play. OK yeah, OK, so for anyone who doesn't already follow you on Instagram, which is how we met, you are cheesy with AZ so CHEEZY under score run. Now, how did you get cheesy as your nickname?

So that name, that so the nickname came up is because when I joined a local run group, Freaky met 22 Uncle, which I called Uncle. I love that. Yeah. So they came out with that name actually, 'cause I smile the time I'll come in and smiling and then they'll be like, why is this guy laughing and smiling all the time? And they're like, wow, this is the best nickname for for this guy. So Tyler came cheesy. And it just kind of stuck. I can totally see it just in pictures. You do have this great, like beautiful white smile. How do you get such great race photos?

You need to teach us all how to have your cheesy smile because it's great. It just comes naturally sometimes and you know, I always say like like your laughter or a big smile will like really great and and someone maybe having it was a rough day today can change someone so. Yeah, Yeah. Isn't that the truth? Now, back back to your upbringing a little bit. So you moved to the United States when you were 14. That had to be terrifying. Or were you really excited? Like what was that experience like? So moving here is honestly like, it was kind of like family position because had a stroke 'cause he was living here, OK, with my like, there's like my mom's other side of the family.

So when he had a stroke, we're kind of like, OK, we kind of need to move and kind of need to take care of him, you know? Yeah, do all the stuff. And yeah, so it, it was like, it's scary, but at the same time like it's a new environment. It's also like that's something that we have to do so. Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so. And so you. I forgot. Yeah. You were born here. So you had citizenship then already. OK. That makes that process easy, easier. Easier. Yeah. Being in high school and coming like to the United States. Yeah, it was like a big adjustment, I would say for sure it was.

It was definitely like culture shock in some way. And then just just trying to like navigate, you know, it's, it's it's different and difficult, but you know, I. Here. So yeah, you're like, well, I hadn't. I we did it. So here I am. And so did you go to high school in the Huntington Beach area or is your family still OK? So where did you go to high school? Hopefully Tulsa, basically, that's where I went to, yeah. OK. And so have you remained there since high school and college? Or where'd you go to? School actually. So I so after I went to College in Tulsa too.

OK. To Colorado for like 4 years after college. OK. And and did moved overseas. Again, Oh my gosh. Yeah. OK. So where in Colorado did you move Denver. OK. Yeah, that seems like that's the thing to do, especially after college. That had to be a really fun experience. And what did you study? Like what was your job when you moved to college or to Colorado? I'm a I'm a researcher basically OK, moved out there and did my master and it was it was good because really great opportunity to work at the school University of Colorado. So at that time it was great and like research and stuff over there.

So it was. Wow. And then where'd you move after Colorado? Overseas. Sure. I'm back to Macau. Back to Macau. Yeah. I mean, I had a like a like a researcher job over there too. And, and then wow. Because I want to like spend just like a year or so just, you know, like being with my dad and then like with his family and just like, because I miss a lot just moving over here to the United States. So I just kind of want to experience something different and then. Wow, that's that's amazing. So did your when you moved here at 14, did your mom and dad both come or was it just you and your mom and then your dad was in Macau or how did that work?

It was it was my just my mom and my sister and daddy, OK? OK. Yeah. That would be really hard to then not see your dad. And so you were in Macau for then how long after Colorado? A year. A year or so, like a little bit over a year that's. OK, wow, that's cool. And how so And so your mom, does she live in Tulsa now? Still no. She, she, she actually just retired and then she, she, she moved back to just traveling with my dad and stuff like, So Yep, she's way overseas friend. So now she's just, yeah, oh, how nice. Well, good for her.

Good for her. So when you say you're visiting family in California, who are you visiting? My sister. My sister. Yeah, and then couple relatives and then my sister boyfriend's family, 'cause we know each other so well already, so. Oh, that's great. Nice. Yeah. It's so funny because for me, I don't know, I feel like I'm boring in comparison. I actually, I was born in Aurora, Co, so very close to Denver. My parents lived there for eight years or so and then moved back to Indiana, where they are from. And so I've pretty much been in Indiana most of my life, but I've gotten to travel a ton, but most of my family is in Indiana, so it's kind of funny.

Like, whereas you are spread out literally all over the world, which has its benefits and and its its downsides for sure. I would love an excuse to to travel over more. Wow. And so, OK, so at this point, when you came back to Tulsa, was it because of what brought you back again to the United States? So it was 'cause when I was overseas I was diagnosed with cancer. Yeah, I was wondering when that Yeah, so. Yeah, it was. It was pretty Nathan. Yeah. You were in Macau? Yeah, I know. Like. Wow, without your mom, right? Was she still? Yeah. Oh my gosh. It was, it was just my dad.

I'm like navigating through all those things. It was. OK, Yeah. So take us through that experience. That's I'm so sorry, first of all, that you've gone through this. Congrats on five years though of your, what do you call it, your cancer freedom. I forget cancer. Bursary cancer. Yeah. Cancer, which is huge. But yeah, take us through what that experience was like. That's crazy. I didn't realize you were overseas when you were diagnosed. Yeah. So like so it was actually a year ago before I was like actually diagnosed like I have symptoms already. OK, going through purse and stuff. They just, they didn't really figure out anything with me and seeing like two or three doctors already and, and really know anything and they're like maybe just stress with like school and work and, and symptoms like kind of gone away.

So at that point I was just like, well, I gotta finish stuff and you know, just life went on. And then when I move overseas and then it just like a year later, it just the symptoms going back and I was like, OK, this is this is actually bad. Like this is not good. And then that's when when to see a urologist over there. And I mean, it's kind of that's when like when they did the ultrasound, I was like, Oh yeah, it's happening. So yeah. So that's that's kind of when everything we kind of just everything just turned upside down. And you just like 26, you're like, never thought of this happening, you know, and.

Right. 26 years old, Yeah. You're like, and is there any sort of history of cancer in your family? Like that would have. I guess that would have pointed them to it sooner versus you having to like continue to go doctor to doctor. Yeah, no, actually no. Like none of my like relatives or even my grandparents like have answer or like dinosaur concerts. So it's part of this. It's kind of a shock with like everything and telling. I think for me it was just telling my my sister that were overseas and just like, you know, just, you know, like. How do you? Yeah, like, yeah, so and it was, was it testicular cancer?

Yeah, it was testicular cancer. So if you don't mind sharing, because I'm sure some of the details are personal in terms of like symptoms, but for people who might be listening that could potentially have those types of symptoms, like what did you experience? My experience was like like the first several symptoms was just urged to urinate. So it's kind of like a UTI kind of thing, you know, right. And so they were doing a lot of UTI testing and I'm like, OK, well, it's definitely not. It doesn't look like a like my lower abdomen will be like having like sort of achiness and then kind of pain.

And it's kind of honestly. And yeah, it wasn't like any like crazy symptoms that. Yeah, I picture. I picture like peeing blood, like as an example. No, no. OK, that's good 'cause that's but still they don't doesn't sound fun at all. Yeah. It surprises me that you go to multiple doctors when you first have symptoms and they can't figure it out. That just to me, blows my mind. Yeah, I mean, I think it's more because I, I mean, I wouldn't 'cause it's, it's relatively pretty common actually for like ages between 20 to like 40 for males. But once I like learn more from from my urologist and oncologist, they were like, it's pretty common for like male and like guys to, to this kind of cancer.

And I was like, oh, OK. And then apparently like, like for guys, we're supposed to like do monthly self check for our testicles. Yeah. And I guess I not a lot of primary care doctors or family doctors that kind of reminds like, yeah, guys, or like, you know, mouse to like, hey, this is what you need to do more for your. So that's kind of thing that I kind of want to like make people aware of And right, this is, this is what you need to do, you know, like so yeah. And like yearly checkup is also important too. Just don't think you're like 20, something you don't really need.

That I know that's what I was going to say. I was like, guys are known for being like, I'm fine, I don't need to go to the doctor, like, unless I like, absolutely need something or if I'm sick. So yeah, that's a good. That's a good PSA. Like people who are listening like to make sure that they do that. Go to the doctor. That's how you find. I mean, although in your case, not necessarily how you figured it out right away, but at least, yeah, you were able to finally get that diagnosis. Was your dad? Did he go with you to your doctor? Like for the appointment to find out or?

So actually, no, because he had to go to work that day. So it was more like I wasn't feeling good. And I was like, it's probably nothing like I just, I just go like and there's some red and then like calling him to tell him the news. It was probably like the worst thing ever and. I still remember that moment, like just walking out and then just, yeah, walking out of the hospital because it was like a long hallway, you know, that tunnel, tunnel white thing. And then just just like, like everything just kind of turned pitch back black and life and yeah. And then did you have to wait to call your mom and sister because of the time difference?

Yes, so I, I was like, OK, how do I tell them the news? And just yeah, because I, I'm more worried about like how they're going to react to it. Like, I don't know, like mom and sister, they're usually pretty strong. They just handle it and they're like, well, you know, you're going to find out. We know you're going to do it, do well. And I'll say well, not or less. I think they I shouldn't have need to think so much about it. So yeah, yeah, they're the backbone usually because like they deal with, yes, Mom and sister kind of deal with those stuff differently and they process it.

Yeah, they were. They were really strong and just kind of, you know, tell me to fight, keep fighting. And yeah. Did you have to go through your treatment in Macau or were you able to be like, OK, I'm going to go back to the States for my treatment? No, I actually did most of it in Macau. They did basically they did the like the check UPS, like the OK when like coming back to the US. That's what I mostly. It's done. OK. And what did your treatment look like? What did you go through? So with the surgery, we did the surgery first 'cause they just like basically do.

Sorry, I'm lost of work today. No, you haven't. They basically just want to do a see on and see what that is first before they did any treatment. So that's what they did and and it turned out to be like a stage 1, like 1B1B. So it wasn't like advance, it wasn't that's good. Not like it's not early either. So like they were just kind of figuring out, OK, do we need to do more stuff? Or that's when they decide like they they decide to wait and then go from. There. OK. Well, that's good. Because I figured, you know, with you having the symptoms and then the symptoms going away that maybe it would have been progressed more.

Yeah, not that it's easy at all, but. Yeah, that's what the doctors were like. You're kind of lucky that the least kind of just localized a little your testicle. So yeah. Jeez. For me, it's like it's a blessing affair, always grateful and thankful for it. Man, that's a good way to look at it, I guess. But it I mean, at 26 years old, years old, you're like, OK, that's. Yeah. Jeez, that blows my mind. 26 and so and so you go through. How long did you have to go through treatment? Was it not super long or was it months and months where you had to go or?

No, it was. It was the first six months. Six months, yeah. In a foreign country? Geez, yeah. Wow. And so then you kick cancer's ass, right? So you just, I mean, the treatments worked. That's I mean. And so how often now do you go for scans or check UPS? So I basically cause of the five year mark, I don't need to do any more scans or blood work. Mainly it's just visit like just revisiting with my oncologist 'cause he just want to revisit me. I guess that like he was like it unless there's some kind of symptoms that it's No, it's not. You're pretty much cancer free.

Wow, what did that? I guess it's hard to describe probably, but like if you could put it into words like those, you know, those milestones of like you're being cancer free, Like what does that mean to you? For me, I think being cancer free, it's like I didn't like, I know like people do like one year, two year, three-year, four year, like that personally didn't really do that because I for me, it's always in the back of the mind that oh, what if like it's kind of right kind of thing kind of just kind of just that's why I never do like though one year, three-year, three-year, four year, yeah, it's more like, let me just hit that five year mark and we can say, oh, it's good for me.

Like hitting that five year mark, It's a big deal. And it's kind of why like people to like, hey, do you want to like for my five year, like let's do a 5K and yes, 25 K and go from there. And like for me, it's, it's kind of why I found running because of cancer. And you know why I fell in love with it too. So that's kind of my milestone for it. And. So you grew up hating running, which is funny because so did I. I used to think it was like punishment. When we played soccer, it was like. It's it's like the worst thing ever, right?

Yeah, I played basketball. I know it's really short, but and we do suicidal all the time and I'm like, dude, this is like this really sucks. Like why are we doing this? You know, in reading, like I think it's a torture. It's kind of what it is like what it was. Right. And so how did you find it? How did what got you? I mean, cancer kind of led you there, but how? Yeah, for me, it's really good friends. And we know we knew each other since we're middle school. So he he listened to me when I was in the hospital and he was like, hey, you know what, to recover everything into random.

And also sure, sure. Like at that point I'm just like, OK, well, he's just trying to talk me into something and just kind of get my mind off of like the like cancer and like my diagnosis and well, just kind of went away because I was doing, I kind of just didn't think about it. And I think it was too like when I was having to like during checkup like every three months back up and stuff like that. That's when it kind of like my mental health was like in, in like a really low, low point of my life where it kind of just one thing kind of just really creeps in And just like what if like there's a lot of what if?

Like, Oh, what if, what if it's going to show up at this scan? Like what if the blood work saying that, oh, it's. And that's when like mental health, it's really, that's when like it like for the first three years, I didn't really tell anyone that I was diagnosed with cancer. Like my whole like social media. Yeah. Like my whole social media was like just basically it went dark. Like I didn't post anything. He like the only people that knew about it's like really close friends to just like my mentors then just my family. And was it like I wish I would have somehow like let other people know.

But like from now, like looking back at that point, I just like, I guess I I don't know how to process it. So at the same time, like just I'm just really like, OK, this is really happening to me. So yeah, I didn't tell anyone until like three years later about like, hey, yeah, by the way, I was gone from the world because. Jeez, yeah. Well, no. Yeah, that had to be really hard on your mental health, not having a huge support system or feeling like you couldn't like just openly or didn't really want to openly talk about it had to be hard. I mean, that was, that was the hardest part, like not really talking about it, just kind of go like thinking that, oh, it's OK.

Like I can still go on with life. And, and yeah, so talk to like talk to people, talk to more people that like if that's your outlet of doing it, that's for sure. So and so going back to the running part, so because of my mental health, that's when I was like, oh, like running, like let me try running and see what's going on because like it was during like COVID time too, so. Yeah, I was wondering when COVID creeped into this because yeah. So and I was like, well, let's go run it. Let me tell you, the first run pretty bad. It was I ran for 30 minutes.

I basically ran 2 minutes, walked one minute, ran 2 minute, walked one minute. It was just I don't call like, I know I shouldn't say that it's not because it's still running. Yes, for me, like it was more like a walking basically. Yeah. So like for me, it kind of cleared my mind a lot. Like that's when I was like, oh, this this thing is pretty cool. Like sucks like I'm breathing like really hard. But but you know, I'm like, I'm like, OK, that's that's pretty good. I can I can keep doing this and it clears my mind. And that's my first thought. And since then I've been running since that's how I got started with running.

It became a like a, it's not a therapy. It's more like a it's my outlet, this stress or life or stuff like that's my outlet. That's why I arrived. So yeah. So when you did that, when you started and you did that first 30 minutes, were you back in the United States at that point or? OK, OK, So you're back here. And so you're running around in like in Tulsa where you run like where did you, where do you did you live at the time? Like you an apartment complex? Did you have a house? Were you like in the city, like in the middle of the cornfield?

No, it was just it was fun together in place after OK, maybe you heard yeah, the park at yeah, it's like, I mean, it's you said it was top top ten park in the United States. So. There you go. OK. And they were building that they were renovating and feel like stuff. So let's let's get a throw in. That's where I ran it was it was really nice. Do you still run there to this day? Is that still a place you'll go? Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a great 'cause it and that's like a loop thing where it's like 13 like 1/2 marathon line.

Oh wow. OK. Loop, so yeah. And is it like a paved path or? OK, that's cool. Mostly, mostly. Yeah, well, it's really nice. And you said it's on the Riverside. What river is that? It's the Arkansas River. Oh yeah, OK. Of course, of course it is. Well, that's nice to have that. And and at what point after you started running did you find a running community like you mentioned Fleet Feet earlier? Like when did you join? Like I feel like it'd be hard to gain enough confidence to then like join a club. So like, how did that process work for you? Honestly, like that process works for me is when I was like, oh, I, I told like I kind of said yes to my friend when I was like, hey, I'm going to run a marathon off your overcover.

And that kind of just back into my mind And I was like, OK, I need to do this thing, you know, and that's funny. I was like, well, I don't know anything about doing or training. I'm just going out to run, you know. Yeah, so I just kind of Google and I never knew like running club was a thing, you know, and and I was like Googling and hopefully feed has running club. OK, cool. Then I see pictures and stuff and I was like, oh, that's cool. Like you're running with group of people. And and so I started with psychos like. OK, that's. The first one group I went to.

So that's when I that's kind of where it all started, like 2-2 years ago. Yeah, two years ago. Wow. So you like join, You're like, OK, guys, I need to run a marathon so. How do I do that? OK. Because you're like no, OK, I'll start with the. So did you end up actually doing a 5K race as your first like official race? Yes, I did. So that's like like in like in the back of my, my mind, I was like, OK, so I need to like go slow. I'm not gonna jump on 5K to a marathon. And yeah, so I did like A0 to 5K and then and then I switched up the groove to A15K like group and then I went up to 1/2 marathon and then went up again to a marathon one group.

So. Well, so And how long did that, how long did it take you to go from, like, I've never run in my life really to running your first marathon? Two years. Two years When? So when was your first marathon? No, no, no, actually, no, no, not two years. Let's see. So my first marathon was last year, May. So that's like, yeah, so sorry. You're good. That's a year. OK. So like about a year ago. Yeah, a year ago. Yeah. OK. So just generally speaking, you gave yourself like a year to like build upon just kind of just keep increasing, which still like for, I feel like for, I don't know.

Yeah, it seems still pretty fast, right. If somebody is listening and they've never run before in their life, like thinking about running in a a marathon in a year sounds crazy. Don't do that. But at least you did. You at least took a year. I mean, you could have been like, screw it, I'm going to just take a few months. And yeah, so at least you did that. So then what was what was your first marathon? Was it Chicago? Was that your first one or that was your second? One my first marathon is in Vancouver. That sounds crazy. OK, so all right, how did that happen?

Like why Vancouver? So it's because I was meeting up with a friend because at the time it was like, we haven't seen each other because of cold. And we're like, let's meet up in Vancouver. And he was like, I was thinking, all right, let's just run marathon, you know? And he was like, well, it's still a fool. And then he signed up for a fool. And I was like, but that means that I have to sign up for. Oh my gosh. 'Cause my, my thinking was when I knew that I got into Chicago, I was like, OK, that's going to be my first marathon. And then he was like, and then he was like, Oh no, we're doing first one in Vancouver.

Oh my gosh. Well, we'll see how that goes. And then but luckily like the time to like kind of get the mileage and to train for that. So which is great. Yeah. Like switching like the mindset. It was kind of rough, but it was fun like running with a good friend, like for, for like it was his first marathon too. And then so it was, it was good. Like, yeah, it was, it was, it was fun. Like this scenery of the entire of that we run. I mean, it's beautiful. Like people were amazing, like cheering you on just of course you know the first no, the 1st 20 miles were basically just up up up like it was.

Yeah, but I picture like Vancouver, beautiful mountains. So then I think, oh wow. Like something that's unplan, usually it's like kind of like the best thing, you know? Yeah and yeah. Well, it's almost like, you know, it's somewhat, it's good going in not knowing anything because then you can't, you know, you're just like, OK. Oh yeah. I I I didn't know that there is a 4/4 hour time limit that you need to pass through that bridge before. Like if not then you think it'll bust you? I didn't know that until two days before the race. So you're like, OK, so I kind of have to make sure that I'm at least doing this.

Were you still, were you still walk running some at that point or were you running you were mostly? I was running but and then like I would take some walk works like like like definitely like I wasn't like fully just right. Yeah, but you made it I. Made it, you know, I made it. I made it under the time that you need to to finish this. Good. Did you stay with your friend the whole time or did you? OK? Wow, that's impressive. Because you guys did. You didn't really train together, right? Because you were meeting up. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing, really. We were, well, we're not turning together, but like.

Shared. Yeah. You were like, hey, here's what I'm doing. And yeah, yeah. Wow, that's really cool. How special. What a beautiful place. Yeah. For your first marathon. Yeah. Did I make you the stickers? Did I make you stickers for Vancouver? OK, this is all coming back to me now. Yeah. Yeah, I did, Yes. OK. I have it right in my uncle. Yes, Yes, you do. Yeah. I mean, wow, what a race. That's that's cool. And so you got into Chicago, you said. So you must have applied for the lottery and just gotten in or wow, that's your first time. Yeah. That's pretty good. And then like what?

Like there are people in my rent cover life. Right. Four or five time I can get in, you get in your first time. Yeah. I just was like, here you go. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I think it. Was like Chris Christmas time. That's when they like, you kind of know. Like I remember it was at least seven or something. And I just remember like credit card was like, here you go. There's like someone drafts, like drafts something. Yeah, credit card now. And you're like, oh, that means I'm in. Wow. Yeah, yeah. OK, so you do Vancouver in May and yeah, in Chicago in October. So when you finished and like crossed the finish line in Vancouver, what was that like?

Were you like, I'm never doing this again, this is awful. Or was it like this glorious feeling I. Mean I didn't have the right not doing it again because I think it's because like Chicago is. Yeah, you've already signed up. Yeah, yeah. It's wide. Wow I just did this like because it's for me. It's just like I think I would never thought of myself doing it. Especially like I hate running so much when I was a kid. Yeah. It's like I just run 2612 my like. Yeah. Some water what I like drive every day like. Yeah. That's kind of where you just like that's, that's, that's a feeling that unless you ran the marathon, you crossed that from the fly and then you're like, it's the feeling.

Yeah, Oh, I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's. Yeah, I mean, it's an incredible accomplishment. Yeah, so that's like going back, like like talking about like me and stuff like that. I think that's fine for me. Was a big accomplishment because to get something that I was like, oh, I just did. Like I fought Spencer and then now like I finish a marathon. Like is it 1% or 10% people? That 1% percent, Yeah, 1% we get to marathoners finish the marathon and that 1%, right? You know, that's kind of the thing that keeps me going and going and going and tagging motivation to me.

And it's also like like I could use my story to share to other. People or like other cancer patients that are going through stuff and be like we can all go through this together like we can fight this thing together so yeah that's also like why I started a like a running Instagram place right My whole like deal of starting something like that it's just. To share, yeah. To fill in in a way, like I met a lot of really awesome people. Yeah, I don't know, like every runner that shoot this like, yes, nothing like their running story or their life story is just so impactful.

And you're like, wow. Like I never knew like that exist. I like I always travel and like I would never. It's always hold dearly to my heart just listening to the stories and how running has improved. Right, I I couldn't agree more. Like, I absolutely love getting to meet runners because everyone is is amazing in their own way and everyone has a story. And it's also incredibly inspiring. Yeah. You say like 1% of people finish a marathon. And then it's like you think about how many, what percentage of marathon finishers are cancer survivors? So you're probably like 1% of like .5. Like, I don't know.

You've got to be like just, there's this subset of people, I mean, that have done it, but you're part of this incredible, incredible group of people that I'm sure you'd prefer not necessarily to be a part of, you know, the cancer part, but you know, at least it did bring you to the sport. So then did you take some time off after that, after Vancouver? Did you not run for a little bit? Did you just like kind of ease off? So my like my the coach from like the run club were like, Hey, you kind of need some rest before if you're going to train again for So she was like take like two, hang on until two close to three weeks.

But my body was this like, I don't want to run. I know weird. That's. So hard. I had to like just follow my palatal bike, like most of the time just doing pain easy while and then really start running back until like 3 weeks, like basically 2-3 weeks later. Yeah, that's good Vancouver. So yeah, say this. Don't do 2 marathons in a year when you are a newbie like me. It's rough. Yeah, man, I tried once. I forget what year it was. I probably just like block it out of my mind. But I did Chicago. I tried to do Chicago and Philadelphia back-to-back. And those are like October, November, like same season even.

And yeah, that was bad. I didn't, I got really sick and still, I still ran Philadelphia, but I did the half because it was like they split. Now they're on different days, so you could run both of them and be really crazy. But yeah, I opted to do a half instead because I shouldn't have tried to do. I don't know. I also feel like people's bodies are all so different in what they can take on and I have yet to try to do 2 marathons in a year, let alone in a season like that. Was kind of dumb but you know, but. You didn't. Well, I try.

I have. To. Sorta it better. It was better than not doing it at all, which I probably shouldn't. I had no business running at all. But I did because I was stubborn and I was in Philadelphia. So I'm like, well, got to do it. Yeah. So tell us about Chicago and what So that has to be so different because Chicago is flat as a pancake. So you're like, this is great. This is amazing, Chicago. I think it's just how, because it's like it's basically running on the street and it's like one for the entire city. 1 coming out to party or coming to just celebrate the day, you know, like you go to different neighborhoods, you know, like it's, it's really cool.

Like for me it was just not getting injured during the training. So like, get into the race and finish the race, you know, that's kind of my goal. Cause in the right side I was like, that was probably the stupidest thing idea I've ever to in a year, let alone like being a newbie, right. Yeah. So yeah, don't do that again. I'm just like, yeah. Yeah. So did you go with any friends or? Well, so I didn't know like who is going to rent in Chicago until like I think two months before the race and was oh, some people from like going to running Chicago and yeah, I was good.

Like I mean it's it's hard 'cause I weren't from Corral. So like we didn't yeah like seeing each other or some right. Maybe we pass each other, but we. Don't like Yeah, it's just huge. Yeah, it's huge so, but I enjoy every second of it. Obviously, like Chicago, I think the weather was perfect. It was so good last year. Yes, it was so good. Oh, it's this time. This is fun. Like that's why I like for me now it's just for marathons to go to like big city to run marathon instead of like this. The vibe is just so different. Yeah. Where like if you, it's just the people that are cheering you on, they're like, oh, this is a big, big event.

It's not something like in this, you know, Swan City, where they just like you guys running. Yeah. Or there's like nobody out there. Yeah. Nobody out there. And that's the difference, 'cause yeah. Yeah. So yeah, there's Chicago I've done four times. It's the marathon I've done the most. I think it's the only, it's the only one I've done more than once. And so, but I haven't done it in quite a while, but I do. I remember just, I mean, the crowds, like more than a million people out there. And just, I think every year I've done it, I've had, we've had pretty good weather. There was one year it was hot.

But yeah, it's just so magical. Like if you're out there, it's nice weather. Just all the people, all the runners. Have you, had you been to Chicago before? Like had you been to the city before? Yeah. Yeah. So. I I think the crazy thing, it's more like when you finish the like the race is finished, you're wearing a medal and people will be like, hey, Congrats, like. These people are. Not running. And it's just like, oh, that's it's cool. Like so. Yeah. Did you keep it on like I I will wear mine in the airport. I will wear it anywhere. Oh no, I did. Yeah, yeah.

It's like heck yeah. Oh yeah, that's fun. Yeah, even like, I remember going through like the security line in the airport and then the security person was like, I'm glad. It's like you felt, yeah, you just ran into Chicago. And I was like, yeah, that's pretty fun. Yeah. You're like, yes, I did, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you fundraise for Chicago at all or you didn't have to? Obviously so. No, 'cause, no, I 'cause I did. Yeah, I did. I did not. I did not have to find raise 'cause I basically just got into the audit. And stuff that's so amazing, I, you know, people who get in, it makes you actually feel like it is truly a lottery if you get in the first time, right?

Because you're like, OK, well, then they're not like not choosing you because you just did it first. I don't know. I feel like it's. I don't know, I. Don't know. I mean, I really don't know. I'm just like, well, you know, you get in, you get in, I guess like, but it's like so hard because like you also need to think about traveling like like training. Yeah, 100%. So. So back to races that weren't your marathons. What did you do? Is there a half marathon in Tulsa? I would imagine there is. Have you done local races at all or? Yeah, I've done like the Tulsa run, which is a 15K OK, We were 66, OK.

Route 66 half, is that like literally just on Route 66? And is it what straight? That's what I picture. OK, no. It's it's, it's just like you run through parks like the Route 66. OK. Like the old highway? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I. Guess that's what they name it. Yeah, you're like, they want to, they got to try something to get, you know, if they want to get people to come and yeah, yeah. Have you ever been to Indiana? I. Know see but I have I know but I have like I think I was talking to one of like someone that like arrived from Indian we.

Oh yeah, yeah, 'cause she does the Fleet Feet Run club here. Yeah. That Abbey, Yeah, so. Yeah, that Abbey. And then she was like, oh, you should do. Yep, monumental. In the morning one, yeah, you need to do. It's a good one. It's in my list. Yeah, it's a good one. Yeah. I mean, it's it will probably sell out this year, but we will sell out for the marathon at some point. But I am partial, obviously I'm from here. And, you know, Indiana's probably kind of like Oklahoma where people are like, you know, what's there. How could it possibly be that interesting, you know? But our race and our downtown, it's pretty.

It's it's cool and it's so flat. So people like it a lot because there's like, no elevation at all. But crowds is something we have to do better because, you know, it goes through a big part of the city, and our city's not huge. And so figuring out how to get more people out, spectating, cheering, I mean, a lot of that here has to do with the weather. If it's nice because it's early November is when our races. So usually around the time of New York City, which I'm sure is also one now on your list. Are you signed up for a race this fall?

Which one? OK. OK. So those are both in the fall? Yep, and they're in. So you're have you officially started the training block for the Route 66 One kind of like starting to, I feel like everybody who's training for Chicago, like all of a sudden they're like a month into their training already and everyone else is like, should I be doing something more or what's you know, makes you kind of feel left behind. Yeah, 'cause everyone, 'cause everyone, oh, there's like 15, I think 15 weeks left. And then they're like, Oh yeah, we're like in double digits of mileage already. And yeah, they're like. Oh.

Yeah, you guys can do that. I'll be there. I'll be doing that soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the the Fleet Feet Run Club, are you now a part of like helping lead that? Do you get more involved in that or are you just still a member of the run club? So just this past session, actually the same session, that's when I start leaving for running and stuff. So it's different. I mean leading a run rather than just, you know, running a, running with a group and just like. Just hanging out, yeah. Yeah, 'cause like running with a group or just hanging out talking, you don't really need to think about things, but.

Yeah, I never did lead ours. I so I worked at Fleet feet part time for a year and I never LED ours or actually even went to it because just because I have a mom of young kids and so like in the evenings, I just, you know, that's my life. They are. But I always wanted to go It's it. But I could see how you'd have to make sure you want everyone to feel really comfortable and welcome. And so people are all different, you know, experience levels, paces. And yeah, ours are on. I think Abby leads them on Monday nights here. What night of the week are?

Mine is so Tuesday, Thursday and. OK, so you have three. Wow, that's nice having that. I see. I run alone most of the time. I find I have a friend now, Becky Riley, who listens to this. Hey, Becky. We started running on Friday mornings together, which has been really nice. It's hard to find somebody with the same schedule that can, like, run during the day, yeah. Your mom and then you have your own business, you know it's. It's, it's tricky. Yeah, it's tricky. Yeah, to to get those times. It's definitely different. So yeah, but you're there. And I mean, you're here and you're, you're still running and still running the things.

Heck yeah. And I'm getting faster, believe it or not. It's like, it's interesting, you know, getting older and getting faster and you're still, like, in your prime. What are you now, like 31? Just 30 or OK, So yeah, you, you got a lot of, you got a lot of years left to, to work on speed if you want. How do you, how do you kind of look at that now that you have two marathons under your belt, like, and you now lead, you know, run club. How are you thinking about your running future? For me, I think, well, I've been working on speed. That's what after Chicago, I was like, OK, want to work on speed?

That's my like, there's goals that you want to reach. And yes, it's just like, OK, speed is the thing. And my coach has also tell me that like speed is not a short. Like it's not, it's not something that you can work on just a short period of time. Like you need time to work on speed. So like, she was like, OK, use this summer to just really work on it after, like use the time out of Chicago before your next race to work on speed. And then, and I see how it goes. And then I work on my speed and stuff. And I did a 10K raise in April, April for April and eight minutes, yeah.

That's amazing. I lost 10K so indeed like so seeing that improvement. I still remember seeing that finish fine. Look at my ones outside. Yeah. I mean, it's over a minute per mile that. I mean, it's just like crazy. But you know, yeah. When you put in the work and you do things, I think especially the right way. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so impatient. So it's hard, you know, but I've no. No, no, I totally understand because I was that way. And like when I remember like training for like the marathon and stuff, I was like, man, I'm like really freaking slow. Like, why am I so slow?

And, you know, but it's always good to have like coaches, friends that are like, hey, you, you just, you need time. Like, yeah, you, you'll be, you just started running. Just just just need to take time and do your work. And then you'll see it. And and then I finally see it and. You're like, OK, all right, all right. Keep chipping away. Yeah. So for me, like I want to qualify for Boston someday and I think just putting it out there has been helpful, but also just reminding myself that, you know, it can take years just of patience and just slowly building, you know, so we'll see, we'll see.

I think I like the thing I think for me, I think reminds me the best is for like everyone's like running journey is different. You know, you just like, that's one thing about running is you are competing yourself in some way and then, you know, just do it all, do it the best you can, and then we'll see. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's hard, especially, you know, we talked about being on Instagram, right? You see that? I mean, there's people, oh, I know, I just nuts. And you're like, oh, if you look at them and you look at yourself and you're like, well, gosh, I suck compared to.

But it's that comparison trap that we all get in. And and also like, you know, knowing that a lot of that is not necessarily the whole story or, you know, it's, it's hard, it's hard to. Yeah, to come there I was. I was doing around the week, like Saturday. I did a long run and then I was going through the beach and then there's high school kids, like running, right? What did I do? Yeah, I just ran like 6 miles, seven minute pace and I should slept. Yep. Nope. Yep. Not, not going to happen. Yeah. Yeah, and, and, you know, just like everyone is different and it's OK to be different.

And I mean, everyone's story is different too, so. Yes, yeah, there's always going to be somebody faster and there's always going to be somebody slower. So it's just like, OK, and it's not, you know, and it's not that big a deal. Everybody, every. I love all the memes that you see where it's like a 30 minute mile is the same distance as a 7 minute mile. You're like, that is true. That is true. I wanted to also nerd out a little bit with you because you are an ambassador of several brands that you love. Did that come with just like as you're learning about running, as you're, you know, part of Fleet Feet Run Club, you Start learning about these products and brands that you've come to love.

Could you talk a little bit about some of those things? Yeah, for me, it's like once you have an Instagram account, like different people would just like, hey, do you want this? Like, do you want to try? Do you want to be an ambassador of this thing? And like getting more of those messages where I'm like, OK, you'll know this was a thing. I just thought it was running, you know, But and then that's when I like seeing more brands. And for me, I think I'm really picky on like what brand it is, especially like like what they what they're like mindset of what they what they're like, what they want their company to do and stuff like that, how they support the athletes.

I think the most important thing and to work small business brands. So that's a good like they they want to know you and you want to know it's like a personal relation, right? Kind of like, for example, like sun gods. They love how like their company is like AB corpse corporation. So until like all those things they consider. Did you find those through Fleet Feet? I've never heard of the brand Sun God until you actually. Actually Sun God is because my good friend that who got me into running, he actually was an ambassador for them. OK. That's why I kind of. Oh, OK, this those are cool.

See why this. Yeah, the only one that I personally used for a long time is Scratch Labs. Oh yeah, I. Like scratch? Been using them since eight years ago when I started cycling. OK. Kind of that's kind of where it started on because because I, my tummy is really sensitive. So I kind of just need stuff that's like not too much to fit for stuff in more real like foods and that first stuff that I can take it in, especially running like it's like worse because like that's the only brand using it for a long time. Yeah, yeah, do you? What do you use for your actual fuel?

Like goo? Like probably not goo if you have stomach troubles. Yeah, I use OK, So I know it's comfort controversy cause like Spring Energy like. All those things that help. A couple. Yeah, it's. Yeah. You use what works for you? I don't know. It does. I know, yeah. But like, yeah, so like we was using like spring energy, especially like the the apple cinnamon because it goes down really easily to my stomach and I can yeah, yeah. So that's gel wise. OK. Like I also use I, I make my own gel with scratch off powder that they have like high concentration of carbs. OK. It's it's a little hard, especially when you're running because like you can't carry like so many like, yeah, DIY pockets, you know, so.

Yeah. It's between those two like, OK, so for me it's gel because I can't chew when I'm running. It's hard. It's hard, so I can do that. Yeah, it's funny. Back to the spring energy. For people who might not be familiar with what the heck we're talking about, will you just mention briefly, like what? What went down with Spring Energy? Oh, me, yeah. I think it's more how they reties their carbs, the amount of carbs that's inside the gel. I think because that's what I like. I think when I look at before when I tried a gel, I was like, oh, you have like 48 grams of carbs like in a gel.

That's good. Like that's what I need for running. Like that's great. And so I don't have to carry like, I don't know, 6-7 packages to get get a marathon in. And then apparently like some people did like a third party testing and the car that's on the label is significantly higher than what's the actual product. So it's. Wild to me. It's wild to me. Like I was like, I just bought a case like two months. Oh, great. Before this came out. Great. Lovely. Yeah. But you know, at the same time you're like, it's like the integrity where, you know, you, you need to know what you're doing.

But for me like I still need to use those like. Right. I mean, just kind of throw them away, yeah. Yeah. Spend good money on those. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I saw that you're, are you an you're an ambassador for squirrel nut butter. That's great. Well, then you got to figure out how to like also tie that into your cancer journey to be like, hey, get it, You know, because the I, I thought when I first heard the brand name that it was like nuts like peanut butter. Like I thought it was going to be a peanut butter product. And then I realized it was anti chafe and it made me love them even more.

I do use it but. They are amazing, Yeah. First used it and I was like, wow, this thing's like amazing. Like I'm not like I'm. I'm not saving at all. Yeah, alright. I see if I can get it. That's when I'm like, OK, like you guys figure out this too. So, yeah, right. Yep. And then you run, you run a New Balance shoes primarily or you run in all different brands or. No. So yes, how they run a New Balance. OK, yes, because so like I know a lot of people are like, oh, they're in dad shoes. That's funny. For me, it's like they think it's more like they cater like they still care about like why?

Like why feed people like, you know, that needs wider, why feed and stuff like that do well with those people. And I'm one of them. I'm thankful for it. I'm thankful for New Balance for that, definitely and great. Yeah, I think it's important for people to, like, wear the shoes that are meant for them versus like you mentioned, like joking like, oh, they're like dad shoes. Well, no, like whatever fits your feet is what you should wear. Whatever is good for your feet, regardless of how they look. I feel like a lot of people are like, oh, I love like, especially when I worked in the store for a little bit, it was just funny to see how people would be like, well, I like how this one looks.

And we sold, you know, they sell on the brand and people would come in just for to wear those as casual shoes, which they should 'cause I think that they suck as running shoes. So yeah, sorry on no. No, no, I I do agree 'cause I don't know, it's so hard. Well, it just, I remember when I first was training and I was trying on the shoes and I put them on and I'd I'd be like, these are for running. Like they just so, and I say all this, but my treadmill shoes are now Cloud Surfers. So I do like the cloud Surfer. They are new, one of their newer models because I think that they have gotten the feedback from people being like, these are not for running.

They are horrible. So anyway, so they've made some improvements. But yeah, some of the ones like, yeah, we just get people like the look of them. And I'm like, well, please don't run in these, but but you can buy them. So, yeah, yeah. I think, like the shredding is the most important thing because you're going to be on it for a long period of time, right? A bunch of miles, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So. Oh, man, Nathan, I'm going to ask you the end of the podcast questions now. It's hard to imagine. We've been talking for over an hour. It's always flies by. Yes. It's been an hour.

Oh my goodness. Yeah, it's been an hour. Yeah, it's wild. So I have two questions that I ask everybody, and the first one is your favorite running mantra or your favorite running song or both? OK, I think for me ties back down to cheesy being cheesy. I always say just keep, keep smiling, keep running. I think that's one other thing. And you want to enjoy that run. I think. I mean, it's hard, like a lot of times, like you don't feel like running, but you know, get out there, get running and just as long as that smile is there, you know, like that feeling. Oh, it's it's pretty cool.

Like it's a good day, like and then like running take over and then you're like gone now. Yeah. So, you know, and then also like the same one, they stay and that's why they have photographers all over. It's just like, hey, give them small. Don't take your take your ugly pictures, you know. Right, like the mad, mad face. Yeah, if somebody like, took pictures of me while I was just not paying attention. I know I need to remind myself to smile because I get in the zone and I'm just. But whenever I do smile, it really does make a it really there's this like mind body connection of like, OK, if they just pretend like you're happy and you feel good and strong and there's something to that, it like it helps.

Yeah. It does exactly, I guess, and like you say, like for song, like for me, like the Best Song that I think for me it's like fight song by Rachel plan. I know like a lot of people like. I love it, I don't care. I played for so many, so many. Songs it's. Like my song, so like it got through, like it got through like me through the cancer and like that was my main song that I played almost like every single day. And Spill and the nurses reveal, well, there goes away. Oh that's great, I love it. Well, you're literally your nickname is cheesy, so you can have the cheesiest, most inspirational song you want.

I am all about that. Like mine is Unstoppable by Sia. I love as well kind of the same kind of thing. Like, yeah, people use it, but it's that's because like for me, it it pumps me up for sure it. Pumps you up, Yeah. Yes, Yep. And then your next finish line or milestone, we kind of already talked about the races that you're signed up for in the fall. So you've got the Tulsa run, what's the 15K and then the Route 66 full. What other races are on your bucket list like that you are thinking you'd like to do besides Monumental? Yep, that one is.

Top of the bucket list, I know. Top, top of the bucket list. You know, not just you. I have these attitudes. So it's already there. Yep, Yep. For me, I think it's I like for me like the bigger milestone will be finishing all like the world major. OK, yeah, that's like my milestone of wanting to complete. But it's hard because you know, it's getting in during it's important. You know, it's it's it's that's why it's hard. It's also you do those things. It's on my list. And I know that you guys have the indie series too. Oh yeah, we have, we have a 5K series here of our races kind of throughout the year.

And then, yeah, there's so many like with Disney, like the all their series of stuff that they do and like the 50 States Club that people do, yeah. I know I, I that's not my thing. Yeah, I'm like, I'm OK not running 50 states. Yeah, I'm OK with that. So. Yeah, me too. But yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot of states. That's maybe when I'm retired. If I'm still running and I'm retired, maybe like that kind of I feel like it's a different season of life kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like right now it's just for me, it's just trying to get in like the war major Americans and then and then go from there and still working on different kind of speed and stuff and still running and to the community and I can.

And then it's kind of where my running life right now is like. Oh, well, thank you so much for doing this. It's been so fun to finally get to know you, Nathan, because I feel like, yeah, you message back and forth and yeah, like, I didn't even put it together that you were the my Vancouver sticker person. Like, it's just funny. Like, of course I remember that. But then, you know, I don't know why. I just, I'm like, Oh yeah, duh, probably. The only the only one she did. I think. I think, I think you are the only person that I've done that for. Yes, Saw.

Your page and I was like, oh, if you do stickers and I was like, OK, let me see if you do customize. Yeah, it's one of my favorite things when people ask me, hey, like, could you just make me one for this because I love designing new ones. It's fun. So. Yeah. Especially for your first marathon. So cool. So cool. Oh well, thank you again and thank you to everybody who's listened. A lot of people who are listening are from Indiana, so hopefully they come follow you on Instagram and they can also convince you to come visit us. But and then I. Will it's it's it's on the bucket.

List, they're good. OK, it's for sure. Well now I know if you say you'll do something, you will because you told your friend you're going to do a marathon and then you stuck to that. So I like that a lot. And then at the end of my episodes I always say happy running, which is so perfect for you. Cheesy run. Happy running, Happy running.

Ally Brettnacher