Episode 52: Farrell Hedrick - A Treadmill Marathon at a Mavs Game

Episodes

Apr 19

Farrell Hedrick ran a full marathon on a treadmill during a Dallas Mavericks game, racing a relay team of doctors for heart health. He also raced for Team Cambodia at the trail world championships.

Listen on Apple Podcasts · Listen on Spotify

About this episode

Farrell Hedrick is a Dallas runner, finance professional and coach who went from gaining weight in public accounting after LSU to running 27 marathons and 57 half marathons, including Boston twice and Boston and Chicago on back-to-back days. We met on Instagram after we both ran Fargo in 2023, where he ran a 2:57. In February 2024 he ran a marathon on a treadmill inside the Mavericks' arena during a game, against a relay team of eight UT Southwestern doctors.

We talk about Fargo and the shifting Boston cutoff, his first half at Rock 'n' Roll Chicago, a rough first marathon in Dallas, and a chaotic late start at the Paris Marathon. Farrell shares his Cambodian heritage, what he's learned about the Khmer Rouge era his mom escaped, and representing Cambodia at the 2022 World Mountain and Trail Running Championships in Chiang Mai, Thailand. We finish with coaching while working full time and how he documents every race on his blog.

In this episode, we discuss

Meeting on Instagram after we both ran the Fargo Marathon in 2023
BQing at Fargo in 2018 and 2023 and missing the Boston cutoff
Watching and tracking the warm 2024 Boston Marathon
Gaining weight after LSU during busy season in public accounting
Starting on the elliptical, then a first half at Rock 'n' Roll Chicago in 2016
Going out too fast at his first marathon in Dallas and the Winsted hill at mile 20
The windy year at the Monumental Marathon
Arriving an hour late to his start at the Paris Marathon
His Cambodian heritage and his mom's escape from the Khmer Rouge
Visiting Cambodia for the first time in 2019 and the question of speaking Khmer
Running for Team Cambodia at the 2022 World Mountain and Trail Running Championships in Chiang Mai
A bad ankle sprain and lingering shin pain
How a marathon on a treadmill at a Mavericks game came together with UT Southwestern
Becoming a running coach while working a full-time corporate job
His mantra "we can do hard things" and ways to stay engaged without music

Chapters

Intro
Meeting through the Fargo Marathon
Boston qualifying and the Boston cutoff
Weight gain after college
How he started running
First marathon in Dallas
Hills, Carmel and Monumental
A late start at the Paris Marathon
Cambodian heritage
Running for Team Cambodia
Ankle sprain and shin pain
The treadmill marathon at a Mavs game
Becoming a running coach
Mantra and staying engaged without music
Next finish line: Eugene

Where to find Farrell

Mentioned in this episode

Races: Fargo Marathon, Boston Marathon, Carmel Marathon, Monumental Marathon, Dallas Marathon, Dallas Turkey Trot, Rock 'n' Roll Chicago Half Marathon, San Francisco Half Marathon, Houston Half Marathon, Miami Half Marathon, Paris Marathon, Tokyo Marathon, Chicago Marathon, New York City Marathon, Berlin Marathon, London Marathon, The Woodlands Marathon, Eugene Marathon, Grandma's Marathon, World Mountain and Trail Running Championships, U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials
Organizations and charities: UT Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas Mavericks, Indiana Fever, LSU
Other: Meb Keflezighi, Caitlin Clark, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey, White Rock Lake

Previous guests mentioned

Related episodes

Frequently asked

Who ran a marathon on a treadmill at a Dallas Mavericks game?

Farrell Hedrick, a Dallas runner and coach, ran a full marathon on a treadmill in the Mavericks' arena during a February 2024 game, racing a relay team of eight UT Southwestern doctors to raise heart health awareness.

Did Farrell Hedrick run for Cambodia?

Yes. Farrell Hedrick, who is Cambodian American, represented Team Cambodia at the 2022 World Mountain and Trail Running Championships in Chiang Mai, Thailand.

How many marathons has Farrell Hedrick run?

At the time of this 2024 episode, Farrell Hedrick had run 27 marathons and 57 half marathons, including Boston in 2021 and 2022, with London the only World Marathon Major he had left.

Where can I read Farrell Hedrick's race recaps?

Farrell Hedrick documents his races, goals and results on his blog at 2run4.com, named for running and the Dallas 214 area code.

Support this show

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically, so it may contain errors.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones with Ali Bretnacher. Incredible stories and tales of triumphs with everyday people achieving their goals and fitness. This podcast brought to you by Athlete Bouquets. Celebrate finish lines and milestones of the people that you love by visiting athletebouquets.com. Hello and welcome to episode 52. This is Ali Brettnacher and I can't believe Carmel Marathon has come and gone. What an incredible weekend. I am still in the midst of attempting to write a recap on the events of the weekend. If you didn't hear me say this already, I ended up having a booth at the Expo for the event which was so much fun.

Huge huge thank you to my friend Alyssa and my friend Ashley for coming and helping me out. That was much needed because I swear it never slowed down. The energy of the event was really energizing for me and it even though I was there all day, it didn't feel like work. It was a blast. So thank you to everybody who stopped by, especially to the guy. I wish I could remember his name, who came by and said he listens to the podcast. So thank you kind listener. It was nice to meet you in person and hopefully we'll see each other around again. And then of course, I actually ran the race, so met up with Rachel, my running coach, as well as a group of her athletes before the race started and the weather was great.

I got a chance to sneak into Todd Oliver's pace group with Amanda Looper. Amanda absolutely crushed her race and got a big PR that she's been working towards, well under 150, and so 150 is the pace group I ran with for the half. It was really fun to be a part of Todd's group. It was the first time he had ever run his own race and I don't know if he liked it or not that I was telling everybody that it's his race, that he started it. And also he, there's some pictures of this. He was warning us all about the cones and then shortly thereafter a cone got him and it was horrible.

We thought he was going to be very injured, but I swear he did a full somersault, didn't miss a beat and yeah, what a great, what a great story he now has about that. So I spent a lot of time with that group, met a couple other people, so my friend's uncle and ultimately ended up just under 150 at like 1, just one 4756 and felt so good because then after the race I helped work and MC. So if you did run, you may have heard my voice at the finish line. It was my first time doing that and it was super awkward at first for me and I think I finally kind of got the hang of it and got used to it towards the end and it it was a blast.

I love, love, love being at the finish line of a race. There's really nothing else like it, so keep an eye out for a full recap that way I'll actually get it done. And then this week is somebody actually not from Carmel, somebody who's never been to Indiana, but now I am campaigning for him to come here for either the Monumental in the fall or come to Carmel next year in the spring. But his name is Farrell, and we actually have met on Instagram. We both did the Fargo marathon last year. I ran the half and Farrell ran the full and I saw him on Instagram afterwards, ended up following him.

And since I've been following along with his crazy running adventures. And finally, in February of this year, I saw that he ran a full marathon on a treadmill in the Maverick Stadium during a game. Wild. It was for a good 'cause it was for heart health. And so I messaged him. I said, OK, you got to come on the podcast and tell me about this is so cool. So he did. But we talked about that really towards the end of the episode. At first we we catch up and we talk a little bit about our experiences in Fargo. We talk about the Boston Marathon, of course, 'cause that also happened this past weekend alongside Carmel.

So congratulations to all the previous guests who were there, all my friends who were there. I am so proud of each and everyone of you. And Farrell has run the race twice. So we talk about him kind of getting to the start line at Boston, talk about the race a little bit. We share that he was actually overweight after college and he is an accountant and in finance. And so being in public accounting made it easy to fall out of shape, gain weight after college, and then his friend got him to do a half marathon and it kind of just starts to steamroll from there.

But he, we talk about the Dallas marathon, which Dallas is where he's from, and we talk about Paris marathon he did this year and some stories around logistics there. He's run so many marathons yet, you know, we still have issues with logistics. I think everybody does. And then we talk a lot about his Cambodian heritage and about a little bit about Cambodia's history, which I found really fascinating because it made me realize how much I just don't know about the world in general. So I really enjoyed having a chance to talk to him about that. He actually got a chance to run for Cambodia, for the World Mountain and trail running championships, which is super cool.

So we talked about how that came to be and then recovering from injury. Sadly he is recovering from an ankle sprain that happened during the WMTRC and then we talked about the treadmill marathon and he is also a running coach now. We talked a little bit about that and I also fell in love with his blog throughout this process of researching him and seeing what races he's done. He does a really great job of documenting and I as a nerd and spreadsheet lover appreciated how he sets that up, so be sure to check that out at tworun4.com and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Ferrell.

Good morning, Ferrell, Pharrell Ferrell. I'm going to just both ways. Both ways. How are you? Just roll with it. I'm doing great. Good morning, Ali. How are you? Good. So do you like Pharrell's music, since people tend to call you that? I'm not. So it's odd. I guess someone who runs you think that I would listen to a lot of music, but I really don't in general. So I I lean on saying yes, but that's also relative to all the music I listen to. That's funny. It is such a random mix of who listens to music while they run and who does not. I for the first time actually in a race this last weekend, didn't listen to music for a majority of my race, which is very unusual for me, so I'm trying it out.

You know, after the the first race, I think it becomes a little overwhelming. And then after that, it's like it just becomes like second nature, like you start finding other ways to entertain yourself, so to speak, besides the music, but and me too. Just turn around. Yeah, for sure. So you and I originally met via Instagram when I saw you had completed the Fargo marathon. I don't know that we ever met during that race weekend, but I had, I was looking at the hashtag and pictures after the event, just reliving that experience and came across to run 4, which I love the creativity of that name.

So it's the number 2, the word run #4, which I assume is the Dallas area code. Is that fair? That's right. I didn't do that. OK, good. And that was 2023, right? Yeah, that was last. Last year and was that your first time in North Dakota? Actually, it was my second time I that was my second time also running the Fargo Marathon. I've also run it in 2018, so probably one of the few out of town people to repeat that race, especially making a long trip from from Texas. Yeah, interesting. What made you go back? So I had a childhood friend or high school friend, so to speak.

He moved up there maybe, yeah, around 2018. So that was his first year moving up there. His family's originally from there and he wanted to be closer to his grandparents, which is super sweet, of course. And he just moved out there and didn't really have much company. So he wanted to give him a visit and kind of he kind of joked actually and said OK if there's a marathon in Fargo like you should come up here and run a night look one up and there's one in May and which is perfect timing because down here in Dallas and I'm sure it gets warm in the summers too generally everywhere else but it can get really bad in March.

So finding like a spring marathon when you kind of have that fresh training from the fall and the winter cycle especially when it gets cold and ideal race conditions like Fargo is kind of a kind of a no brainer to sign up. So that was my first time visiting to to try and BQ the race, and I think it was 2018 back then, the BQ for my H back was three O 5 and I ran at three O 3. So I had some decent success there and I was kind of bouncing around between different target times over the last five years and try to get another BQ there and try to go for go for broke for 2:50 and it did get a little warm this past year.

Those definitely not the same race I remembered in 2018. Yeah, it was toasty. I ran the half and so it wasn't too bad. But for the full marathoners it got it got pretty warm. Yeah. Yeah, I love it though. That Dome like door just goes up and I remember it was cloudy in 2018 so I didn't think too much of the sun length. But as soon as the race started this year it was just bam in your face, bright sun and it wasn't too warm. But you can feel that OK, in another hour or two like this is going to be bad, at least for the marathoners.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So wait, so you did BQ when you went last year as well? I did. So that one was actually kind of ironic too because so this past year I think I ran. I it was a tough time in the backside. I ran a 257, so qualify for Boston. Again. This was after two years in a row where Boston let everyone who qualified in after the whole 2020 112 minute cut off. So I felt like my odds were OK to get into Boston after I've done it twice. So I was looking forward to running it again after taking a break. And then this.

For this year's race, I think the qualifying cut off was 5 minutes or yeah, I was like 5 1/2 minutes and I was just blown away. Which is ironic I bring that up because in 2018 I ran a three O 3 when the standard was three O 5 and the cut off there was almost 5 minutes and they lowered it from three O 5 to 3. So seems to be that the two times I've run Fargo that the standard gets a little harder to run past. Do you think you'll go back to Fargo just 'cause you have your friend there? Yeah, I can do it again.

I think I would do the half maybe just to change it up a little bit, but I would love to go up there around the summertime, maybe go to Grandma's and then go visit him in Fargo. I know that's a little bit further out of the stretch. I think it's about 3 hours. But yeah, I mean Fargo is a great town. The race was pretty solid. I think the the turn out might have been a little bit smaller than 2018, but I still had fun. I mean I think it was I think people were thinking about marathons to run in the country. Fargo is probably towards the bottom of their list from like a visiting a city, but they do a pretty good job of the race.

Yeah, you know, it was so easy, right? I mean it's a it's not a huge city. So it's just easy to, you know, once you get there. It's not always easy to get there. You have to pretty much have a layover almost anywhere. But yeah, I I really enjoyed the restaurants in the in the town we stayed at. I forget the name of the hotel off the top of my head, but it was just really cute boutique hotel. I was with my sister. We had a great time. I would go back if someone else, like a friend of mine wanted to run it and I don't know, but otherwise probably not.

I went for my 50th half marathon and it was in my 50th state visited. I haven't run in every state, Maybe someday, but it was fun to kind of coincide those milestones. So yeah. Did you watch visiting off at these stations before? Yeah, which is kind of crazy to think about that I've actually been to every state. I need to go back to Hawaii because I was there as a infant. So, like, technically it counts, but in reality probably should do that again. Maybe this year. Later this year, my husband and I are celebrating our 10th wedding anniversary, so that would be a good excuse to go.

Oh, absolutely. Congratulations. Oh, thank you. Thank you. So did you watch the Boston Marathon yesterday? Unfortunately, I was not able to watch it. I I had to catch up on the highlights. Yeah, it was a busy day at work unfortunately, but I I was tracking all my friends and cheering them on. Virtually it. I wish I paid more attention to the weather. I knew it was warm at the start, like from personal preference standpoint, I think it was just under 60°. But the race starts at 9:30 for the first bracket and I had a friend who's on a charity bib who's flying in from Zurich and he was at 11:30 AM start and I can't imagine how warm it is.

Like that's no matter how much training you do. I mean it's that's tough because you if you're at this, if you're competing at that level and running at that volume, most likely you're running like early in the morning and it's you wherever you're training and you're it's probably cooler and it's just kind of. Yeah. The day was unfolded where it just wasn't fortunate, but you know, it looked like I. What I like about those races is from a pro standpoint, it makes the race very interesting. So catching up with the highlights is a lot of fun. It looks like the Men race had some interesting.

I don't know if drama is the right word, but interesting moves. How about that? Yeah yeah I so with my the flexibility of my job I got to watch it. So I watched pretty much the whole thing and it was really fun. I I really enjoy watching it. I haven't always been into the sport if you will like actually following pro. I've I've since in the last couple of years gotten more and more interested and and so it was really fun to watch yesterday and then I I was tracking friends as well and it was just it was you could see how they started right and then the pace is starting to slow down and I just kept thinking man it must be getting so hot there but at least it gets more and more people out to spectate when it's nice weather but it's so hard as an athlete I had a couple charity run your friends as well and man toasty so how many times have you run Boston Ferrell.

I've done it twice now, 2021 and 2022. OK. Yeah, it's now, I've now said it out loud that I would like to qualify and and run at some point. I am 37, almost 38. So I'm getting to the point where you know, I could potentially use that you know 440 milestone to to get a little bit more leeway, but we shall see hopefully someday. That's awesome. Sometimes you have to speak it to bring it into existence so that it's also not easy to just go out there. Go out there because you're always become self-conscious of yourself. And I think it's good to do so because I think there's a lot like, from my personal experience, you feel like there's might be a target on your back or what?

What will people think? What really the best part of the whole community is? Everyone's so supportive of each other. Like, there's so many people with the same goals and dreams. And you might see them, like whether you know they're in Indiana or people you've met across the country through your podcast or whomever you see them at Boston or they run Boston in bazillion times. They all have to start somewhere. And it's not like there are some obviously very gifted people who can go run their first marathon BQ and get into Boston. But the vast majority, I would say a lot of them have the exact same feelings.

And you know, having that kind of ability to resonate with people and see, OK, I know I'm not the only one that's kind of actually pretty pretty. I don't know if Calming's the right word, but I think having that assurance is what I'm getting at. Like knowing that, hey, they've been through this. Like, even though I might feel a little anxious about this goal, at least I know somebody else has been through this, and maybe they can share their words of wisdom. Yes, yeah. And for me, especially as like a mom with two young kids, the more women I talk to that are post kids that are even older than me, that are now like achieving those goals, it does.

It gives me that assurance and confidence that it's possible, right? It's something that felt so impossible. Like in 2014, I ran Chicago just under 4 hours and I was like, OK, there we go. I got my sub four marathon. I'm done. I never have to get any faster. And here I am now being like, OK, now I'm going to get faster. Let's see how fast, how fast I can get. So we shall see. Isn't it crazy how everyone has like those stories about whether it's the first like race or one of the earlier runs where like, I'm not going to do that again? Yes. Yep.

Yeah. And. And you, I was listening to another podcast you were on and you were at one point overweight, is that right? Like after post college? Yeah. Yeah, post college for sure. I I went to, did my undergrad at LSU. So definitely a very big party. School football is like king down there. It's it was a fun time somehow walked away with my degree. But no, all jokes aside, Yeah, definitely. I definitely probably had my fair share of beers and crawfish and definitely add it to the waistline there. So I think after college. So this is where it gets difficult because I think in that podcast I mentioned that when you start losing weight or like thinking about losing weight, you're never really at the peak of your weight, which is not a bad thing.

But if someone were to ask that what was the most that you weighed? It's like, well, I can tell you what I weighed. So after college it was like 190 and I think I got up to as high as 2, two O 5 or 210 based on like the fitness tracking apps that I was downloading at the time. But at that point you're already a little bit aware of your your health position and you're already making some stride. So I mean who knows, maybe I was like 215 or even 220, but it's it's kind of hard to tell. But yeah, so the toughest part was not only college, but I majored in finance and internal audit.

I went straight into public accounting for and worked there for 4 1/2 years. And if you've had friends who worked in public county, they always bring up tax season or audit seasons and internal audit's a little bit different, but a lot of the work still ties with external audits, busy season, so January through the end of April and it's just working non-stop, just getting junk food delivered or someone picking it up. And there's really not not much time to to focus on, you know, health or working out. I mean, it just depends on the team. I don't think I mentioned it then, but one thing that actually did kind of help me think about it was one of the work teams that was on or the audit teams I was on, The senior was actually very into working out.

So at 7:00 PM, maybe he would make himself go to the gym and he would announce like, hey, I'm going to the gym, does anybody want to join? And he was the only one, I'd say 4 out of five times to go by himself. Every now and then someone would like join in with him. But even if everyone said no, he'd still offered at 7:00 PM. I'm going to the gym. I'll be back online around like 8:00 or 9:00 PM. But we all kind of need this break. We've we've been going at this since 8:00 AM. It's like the work's going to be here. We'll we'll be OK.

But yeah, take care of yourself. Yeah, my brother-in-law is an auditor and he man, he actually is getting ready to do London and Berlin this year. But he literally he lives in DC area and he would run to his office like and run home like to get his miles in. It's just wild. But I also see the other side where yeah, you're just you're in it so deep that you're working and there's no, yeah, you're getting food delivered and all of that and just not able to, you know breathe in those scenarios. It's funny having you on today after yesterday was April 15th. You know, Tax Tax day, the famous tax day, I thought.

It was actually going to be good timing with the Boston Marathon. And someone like, I saw jokes about like, it being tax day. I was like, oh, I didn't think about that. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's funny. So, yeah, I just think if if somebody looked at your Instagram profile and like, saw pictures of you, like, in my mind anyway, I never would have thought that you would have gone through a weight loss journey as a runner. You just, I mean, look like an elite athlete, which you really are. I mean, I I know it's all relative, right? But gosh, you're impressive having run. I don't know if your Instagram profile is up to date, but at least when I look today, 27 full marathons.

57 half marathons. Yeah. So how did, how did the endurance side of things get started? How did you get this running? Bug. Yeah, it's it's really funny you bring that up and it's a good segue because we were joking earlier about, you know, your first races where you where you thought like, oh like I'm going to be done or I'm, I'm good with this. But yeah, so going back to the whole work thing real quick, I just, well, I remember waking up one day and looking at myself in the mirror and at this point it was like maybe two years out of college. It was like 20/23/24.

And I said to myself, if this is supposed to be the best years of my life, then why do I feel like it's the worst years of my life? And it's the realization that it's all coming down to when it comes like how I feel, it's driven by the energy. And the reason why I don't have energy is because I'm not doing anything to give myself that energy. So I'm waking up just doing the same thing, Waking up, going to work, eating like crap, still going out with friends, getting poor sleep and you know, not everything was fixed overnight. I'd I'd still say like the sleep part I can still work on.

I'm probably the worst person to to meet when it comes to getting your full recommended hours of sleep. But yeah, that that realization of what are we, What are we doing with ourselves? And I remember running track in high school and I did that for about a year my freshman year. I hated getting yelled at. And I, the combination of being 14 years old and like, not caring about something that I wasn't good at, at at least perceived at the time and getting yelled at just wasn't fun. But I I did the 800 and the mile back then I was like, let me go run a mile, see how that goes.

And I kind of generally marked out what a mile looked like. And I made it to like the first stop sign, which is not even like 1/4 of the way there. And I ran back and I just did a half miles. OK, you know what? Maybe this whole running outside thing's not going to work. Let me start on the elliptical. So it was 30 minutes on the elliptical, became an hour on the elliptical, like almost every day. I'd say like 5 to 6 days. And then eventually, once I gained the confidence and run 2 to 3 miles outside, kind of the rest is history I'd say my first time running, I didn't get the whole running bug to jump into like these big races.

I didn't. I probably knew what a marathon was, but I didn't quite comprehend it. Like for me, like I was good with the five KS and I had friends who were like training for like the Dallas Turkey Trot or a half marathon and the Dallas Circuit Trot is huge. It's a 5K and eight mile race. And I thought like all my friends were signing up for the 5K and they were all new 8 miles. And I thought that was absurd, that people will be running 8 miles in a given time. Yeah, it's so funny. Yeah, but kind of speed through the last part of that is I kind of gave picked up a little bit of weight after I switched roles within the firm.

So new new job so to speak, new team learning a lot of different things that kind of went through the same mode a little bit again. But I wouldn't say it was overweight, but I could tell like something was off. Like I I didn't have that same balance that I had when I was running in. A friend of mine at work convinced me to train with her for 1/2 marathon. It was the Rock'n'roll Chicago Half Marathon in 2016. I don't know if they do that race anymore, but I I did love the rock'n'roll Series A lot. And also at that time one of my college friends for training Brothers too.

He was training to qualify for Boston, which I think was also three O 5, which at that point when we start talking about running, that blew my mind. I was like whoa like three O 5 for a marathon. That's like 7, seven O 5 seven O 6 a mile. Like it's like I was racing like 5 KS at that pace and after that half marathon my goal was under two hours and I think I ran 148. So I was extremely ecstatic with the time, but my legs were just beat. I like, I remember calling him and because he had just finished his long run and he wanted to talk about my race, and my exact words to him were, I don't know how you can do two of these, Like there's just absolutely no way you could convince me to run another one of these right after this.

Yeah, gosh, isn't that so funny? Sorry. I was looking up. I ran the rock'n'roll Chicago half in 2015. I was trying to see if it was the same year that we would have been there. Yeah, one year before. And I remember I got a high 5 from from MEB Koflubsky that race, but I don't know if they they do it anymore. But anyway, so yeah, isn't that funny how you it's it was really fun. I really enjoyed it. I was going away because I remember you're going to laugh, you're going to laugh at this. But I remember doing the train training for that race and as I was going up the long runs, I didn't really have a set training plan.

It was just however far I can run on Saturday the next week, just try to push it up one mile. And I remember 2 weeks before the race I said OK, we've gotten up to 9 to 10 miles. I and I for some reason I just felt very nervous. And that morning I said if I can't run 13 miles today, there's no way I'm running 13 miles on Saturday or in two weeks, which 90% of like actually 99% of coaches would probably say that's the most ridiculous thing to tell yourself, which is absolutely true, especially running in the summer here in Texas. So did the 13 mile long run and I did that in like 2 1/2 hours.

I'm like man, this is this 2 hour. Thing's going to be tough and but the weather was nice. The crowds are awesome. There's just so many cool people around, a lot of runners. Just the energy. And that really like, flipped the switch in my head. I was like, this is actually really fun. And how did you graduate from 1/2 to a full? That's a great question. I think after a few half marathons, I still have the mentality of, oh, I don't want to do a full, I'm perfectly happy with calves. But there's something inside of me that said if I went my whole life just running marathons and being content with it, I think there would be a small part of me that would regret not doing a full marathon.

So I just took the plunge, so to speak. Wanted to get some more confidence. Maybe after half marathon, five or six, because it was around the summertime. I couldn't remember the exact race where I made the the realization, but I wanted to run the Dallas marathon because this local race, I don't want to, you know, travel for it. I just wanted to. At first I thought this was going to be one and done. I wanted to do the marathon and then we'll go from there. But it turns out, let's see. Yeah, half marathon after the San Francisco half. So that was the 7th marathon that I did or seventh half marathon.

I'm sorry that I did. Then I decided to sign up for Dallas Marathon and at first I put my time. They asked for the whole estimated time. I put 4 hours, like that's a pretty general goal. And I think my half PR had, well, didn't change much since then. I think it was a 145 in San Francisco. And throughout that summer I progressed quite a bit. And I think I got my half down in Houston, half in October. I think I got it down to 135. And that's when I kind of knew, like, hey, like I knew a friend who was training for Boston that was three O 5.

I've heard, you know, the math of like, oh, you double your halftime at 10 minutes. So maybe I should have targeted 3/15, 3:30. And who knows, maybe if training goes well, like three O 5 would be in the cards. And of course, this part part of that's just me being naive and not knowing what it takes to run a full marathon, which I'm sure so many of your guests and your friends have said the exact same thing. Yeah. Yeah. And then Dallas weekend rolled around and I was in the sea corral and I could never for every reason I didn't think about asking to move up the corrals.

And I just, yeah, I just like, oh, I'll just get into my group. So I started weaving through the race and I ran way too hard in the front half. My half marathon PR was like 134. I came through the front half at like 135 and change. So like a minute off my PR and and I knew this was going to be a bad day but. Oops. Yeah, yeah. It's it's crazy because I I vividly remember that second-half and everything was going OK. I knew it was going to be it was going to be hard because of how how difficult I of a position. I put myself in the first out after the first half and after there's this big hill at mile 20.

It's it's very similar to have you done Chicago Marathon? Yes. So it's exactly like that Roosevelt Hill, that final turn before or the 2nd to last turn before we go into the finish line. It's not quite as steep, but it's half mile, just straight up. And that just broke me at mile 20. And it was just the IT was the longest 10K of my life. I swore I saw mile 23. I saw that mile marker like five times. I was ready for this over, but I was. Do they have a name for that hill? Yeah, well, it's funny, there's, I don't think there is a name, but everyone knows the street.

It's Winstead. So everyone knows like, oh OK, the famous Winstead Hill. Yeah, that sounds brutal. But despite all that, somehow, someway walked away with the 321 and unlike the half marathon, I actually felt very motivated after that race because I told myself if I could do this with the the lack of structure so to speak. I think I did a decent amount of work for the training, maybe not as consistent as I probably should have, but you know to have a 135 half and then the 321 full, I was very ecstatic because like you know what, maybe you know there is something here and that's when kind of the the BQ dream it started.

Yeah, yeah, that's pretty. I mean, shoot, I mean if you look at like average times, right, that's pretty incredible. What is the landscape of Dallas? Is other than that Winstead Hill? Is it pretty flat? Yeah, I'd say it's mostly flat. It's an interesting laid out city. I think compared to most like especially most East Coast cities. I don't it's not like Philly or like upstate New York where you're going to have always like rolling rolling hills or DC where you can find plenty of them. I'd say it's generally flat. There are pockets of hilly neighborhoods like East Dallas where White Rock Lake where a lot of the runners will go train and cyclist will go train that the lake itself gets pretty flat but getting up and back is hilly.

And then South of the city or South of downtown Oak Cliff, that's probably the hilliest because it's the, I think it's the highest elevation of the city. So where the Turkey trot starts in downtown and goes South and Oak Cliff, like that's going to be some some tough hills there. But I say tough hills. I'm sure people from California, Colorado, Montana, wherever they may be, they'll probably come to the city and they're like, oh, this is, it's flat as a pancake. Well, everything's flat when you're having to deal with mountains. Right, totally. I know. Well, this the race that I'm from Carmel IN and we had our marathon this last weekend and I told a couple of friends, I said, yeah, it's just it's rolling hills.

It's really pretty flat. It's not bad at all. And a couple of them afterwards were like, you lied. It was like so hilly and I'm thinking you know it. I guess it is all relative, like a hill for you might be like nothing for somebody else. But, you know, so yeah, but like out West, Yeah, I mean, they're going to come, come away thinking, yeah, this is the flattest thing ever. I mean so. I've heard that about Carmel, because that was always on my list of spring races where it's OK if I didn't leave Boston. What other cool races are out there? And I've heard mixed things about it being a fast course, and I've heard it's generally fast, but I've heard more of the ladder where it's like the rolling hills will get you like.

It's kind of sneaky, but I do think that having rolling hills isn't a bad thing for a race like, especially from a the speed of it. Yes, yeah. I always tell myself, right, Yeah, I try to tell myself that my legs like need some kind of elevation change. Like it's nice to kind of mix it up a little bit our our half or our our marathon in in the fall. The monumental marathon is really, really flat. Like there is not, I don't think, a single hill to speak of. So you know when you do compare it to that, it is a little, little bit Hillier.

But have you ever been to Indiana? I have not been to Indiana, although I've had a lot of friends. I've had a lot of friends who actually grew up in Indy. Yeah, so you got to, you got to come at some point now it'll be like my mission to get you to come do either, Yeah, Carmel or the Monumental. They're both really, really great, great races. Carmel. The weather is like, you never know and it's usually not the same weekend as Boston. It's usually the weekend before, which is obviously too close if you're running Boston. But but yeah, both, both great races. Although I've heard that Indy had Indy had some tricky weather.

What was that? Not last year? Two years ago. I the year I chose to run it for the first time. There was a there was a woman here that she's in the same running groups up in Plano which is like a suburb maybe 2020 miles ish out and she won the in the monumental marathon thing but she just missed the cut off for the OTQ. She was like 230. Six. I probably watched her finish. Yeah, it was the the IT was the crazy winds. It was like thirty 30-40 mile an hour gusts and people were just having a tough time. But she was such a good sport.

I remember seeing her interview and she was just so overwhelmed by it. The win that like the the the thought of just missing the OTQ. Was it at least like registering just yet? But we were all heartbroken. She eventually got it a couple months later down in Houston. So, not a not a sad tale, but all those friends who ran Indy that day were like, no, that was that was a bad day. Yeah, I it was. So I joined. I'm on the board for Monumental and so I was like, OK, I need to run the full I've, oh, I've run the half. But I've never experienced our full marathon.

And so I thought, OK, I'm going to do it. And I did it that that year was the year. The first year I did the full and it was at the Expo, I held up a sign and then I used this app to like erase the text on it and I put Fuck the Wind on the sign instead because it was literally everyone's looking at the forecast like, this is going to be absolutely terrible. And for me, it actually ended up not being so bad for my race. It was my first full marathon after having my second kid. And so for me, I had just started using a running coach and it was really about learning how to execute on a full marathon, like figuring out how to race smart.

And I did that. So I walked away really happy. But it was the wind. I remember turning kind of the final stretch up our Main Street called Meridian, and my feet were literally like blowing out from under me. I could feel the move as I was running. It was just like laughable. So anyway, crazy. But I want to hear about some of your other races you've done. I mean, clearly, you know, 27 folds, 57 half. I mean, you've done a lot of racing. I looked and I was peeking at your blog for some highlights of races, but I would love to just hear you share some of your most memorable stories.

I know that's so hard given the number of them, but. Yeah, there certainly are. And I actually had to go pull up my own race log. And I think of the last podcast I listened to was the the One year anniversary one you mentioned about your Google spreadsheet and I have something very similar. I just have a big Excel spreadsheet with like the half marathons and the marathons listed the times, the locations to track the different states that I've been to. Yeah. Marathon wise there's definitely quite a few. I think the most memorable ones I would have to let's, I'll start with this year I'll, I'll go with Paris.

I I love that race. It was a fun race. You want to talk about sneaky Hilly is the Paris marathon. You wouldn't think that So the yeah. So the race actually it's very scenic. It's very iconic landmarks and a lot of it's through like along the Riverside. So that's pretty flat, but there's two parks on both ends of the city. Again, very gorgeous, but kind of similar to maybe Central Park's. A bad comparison because there were a good amount of central people in Central Park for the New York Marathon. But the two parks for Paris may not have as many spectators, but there's rolling hills throughout those parks.

So I would say for the marathon it's about 500 feet a game. And what does Carmel say for the the elevation? Is there about 500? Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. Yeah, I think, I think last time I checked Carmel somewhere around like 4 or 500, which is a good amount of rolling hills but beautiful race. But the funniest, the funniest part about that race was, I'd say that was like marathon, let's call it 20 something. So you think by now like I have the whole like logistics things now like, oh, the race starts at this time, I should get here at that time, therefore I should wake up at this time.

And everything was actually going according to plan. I was meeting up with some friends. My, my parents are from Cambodia and my Cambodia used to be a French colony. So two of my my aunts, they live in the Paris area and I have some mutual friends who are also French, Cambodian. And I was meeting up with them, said hey, we're going to meet at this intersection. I had my phone with me and everything so cool. Everything was fine until we go to backdrop and everyone was just kind of taking their sweet time and I wasn't paying attention to it. And all of a sudden we get into the corrals and our corrals like, closed somehow and people are trying to make into their corrals and like people are legit climbing over the fences.

Like we're talking about. Chicago Marathon like high fences. And I was like, we're not jumping over fences. So because the last thing I wanted to do, First off, First off, I'm not going to get in trouble. Second, I don't want to try and hurt myself. Right, Yeah. And then one of us, one of us in the group, found like an opening somewhere. So we got in, but we didn't start until like an hour later than our expected start time because we were like that many corrals back. Wow, thankfully, like weather wise, OK, it was kind of a disaster of like. Oh, we're at backdrop. Oh I need to go to the bathroom like oh I just saw so and so I'm going to say hi to so and so and before you know it we're an hour late The actually the worst part about that being an hour late.

What? And thankfully I had my phone but I had a friend from back home. She moved to Belgium that's where family's from six years prior and she got married and we still stay in touch and I've gone to the wedding in in Belgium. Super nice family, but they drove to Paris and they like, oh, like Paris is only like a three, 3-4 hour drive. Like we'll spend the weekend there and now we'll see you for the race. But they only had the weekend there so they couldn't really take the time off. They were going to drive back to Belgium that Sunday, so like being an hour late, like really threw off their schedule.

I'm like, I'm so sorry that Y'all drove out here and I fumble that so poorly. I mean, that's so hard though, your first time doing a race. I've never done an international race and I will at some point. But I and Paris is on my like, I would love just to go to Paris again. Wow. That that would be, that would be freaking out. Did you fuel at all waiting in that time? That would that would like mess me up too, thinking an hour extra of like what do I eat? Thankfully that wasn't like an A race for me so I was just coming back from a really bad ankle sprain the in the prior fall.

In November I did a trail race and that was really tough to get through so I was running with another friend. So thankfully the fuel side of things wasn't as big of a deal, but certainly if that was like my my goal race, I would have been in. Mode. Yeah, everything was thrown like everything's all already thrown off, right? Like one hour is a huge difference. That's that could be especially for a 9:00 AM start Also, too. I don't understand Europe's obsession with like, these 9:00 AM starts and 9:30 starts. It's crazy. That is interesting. I didn't realize that. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, hardly any so hard.

Before you've been right, Have you Have you been to Paris before then, before this race? No, actually that was my first. Well, it was my first time as an adult. I wasn't. I think the first time I went I was a year old maybe. Yeah, yeah. So kind of like my Hawaii. It's like you got to go. You got to go back and like be there. That's really cool. What a cool way to see the city. I think that's one of the ways I start to think about marathons I want to do. It would be really cool to do all the majors, but there are just so many places in the world I want to go.

So it's like this Balanza and that would be easier to go to than trying to get into to the majors, at least for me. So I do actually. I want to take this time Farrell, to talk about your Cambodian heritage if we could, because I actually I read your blog about being American born, but having a Cambodian heart and running for Cambodia. I was very uneducated. I realized very quickly with work like History of the World, right? Even knowing where Cambodia is on a map, like I had to Google. I've been to Thailand, so I've been close. But anyway, I would just love to hear a little bit more about that part of you and and yeah, how you ended up running for Cambodia.

That's so cool. Yeah, absolutely. No, I think that's a great transition for sure. And to give a little bit more background on like kind of my family. So my mom is the youngest of like 6 total kids in the family. So she had five other siblings, three sisters and two brothers. And so I'm, I'm still learning a lot of it too. Again, with world history, like you can only learn so much in the classroom. And for me, it's like growing up, you never ask those questions. Part of it is you if you don't know to like, if you don't know about it, you don't know to ask.

And those are always difficult conversations already to have anyways. But from what I've learned so far, so you have the American Vietnam War, I I believe that was from like call it 1970 to 1975 and there's a lot of interlacing between Cambodian history and the American Vietnam War with the whole like communist and anti communist groups. But the Fast forward, you know America withdrew from Vietnam, but then after withdrawal like there was no more US support or aid for Cambodia. And then that's when the country kind of fell into, you know it's kind of dark ages of what's called the Khmer Rouge or Red Cambodia.

And you know, there's it was a pretty tough four years of genocide where it was an estimated, I think the ranges go from one and a half million to two to three million, which is about 1/4 to 1/3 of the population. I think the capital city at the time was like 4 million people. It's just talking about a whole city of people being just absolutely wiped out. And you know my mom, she was from another large city but on the other side of the country. So maybe a bit more fortunate for her and her sisters to be able to to leave the country. So my mom was able to come to America.

Her two sisters left and went to Paris, and one of her sisters stayed. Her two brothers stayed. And I don't know too much history about the two brothers, but from her sister's standpoint, I've always stayed in touch with them growing up. And we've always had a pretty good, good family. We never saw each other as much just because of the distance and the cost. But you know, that's the beauty of you know, something like that where it's, you know, you have, you might have left for very kind of dark and scary reasons, but I think there's a a sense of like a different sense of community and a bonding knowing that like you had to leave and make a new life and it's completely different world.

Don't know the language. You don't know how to make money And there's others like you and it's kind of similar theme to running where we talk about like you know training for a marathon. It's so so specific so nation we we all know what it takes to to finish one. So we're all proud of each other. So it's very there's very interesting parallels and I guess what I'm trying to get at there is yeah it was interesting with her leaving. I I never really asked her growing up about like kind of the history of it or all of her direct stories and I don't think it's a necessary situation of you know she's too afraid to share.

It's it's a matter of there's just a lot that went on and just where, where does the story even begin and. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's interesting. Like I said, it's been a, it's been a crazy journey over the last, I'd say even like 3-4 years are in COVID because I think that's when it all hit me the most about like understanding my background and my history. Because in 2019 that was actually my first time visiting Cambodia and seeing some of my family down there, which was truly an incredible experience. I've only been to Thailand once and how long were you in Thailand when you were there?

We were there, I think less than a just a little less than a week. We did Thailand and then went to Australia from Thailand in the same trip. OK so plenty of plenty of time to experience a lot of cool things and see kind of the locals there. You know you you look around and and everyone's super nice, super friendly and Cambodia is very similar like everyone's super accommodating. I was actually blown away by how many people could speak pretty good English. I was like, man, this that was that was one of the biggest realizations was, and we can dive into this a little bit more too, especially when we're thinking about like the kind of the, the difficulties of that blog and kind of why I wrote it is, you know, I go over there and you know, and you've been over to Thailand.

So again, very similar where it's you, you love the people, you enjoy the food, you enjoy the scenery. But there is a little bit of a dark side where you realize like these people don't make a lot of money, like they don't have a lot, but somehow some way, like most of them make the most out of it, they're so happy. And then there's a little bit of guilt there. I don't know if you ever felt that while you you walked around. There's some people have it, some people don't. And I'm not trying to shame anybody who's never had that epiphany. But a lot of people I've talked to, they'll they'll all of a sudden realize like man like this is for as nice of a country as it is.

It's pretty incredible what they can do with the the resources, sources that they have. And it's not necessarily like a pity thing by any means. It's more of just the realization that life here isn't as bad or like because there's always like, oh, I wish we had more money than I wish, you know, work wasn't so stressful. I wish I could enjoy, like, running more. It's always more and more and more, better, better, better. And sometimes you got to realize that, you know, the whole saying of the comparison is a deep of joy that really kicks in. Yeah, I when we went, I went with my dad and my sister.

My dad, my parents had a business when I was growing up, a software company, and so he had clients in Thailand, in Bangkok and in Sydney, Australia. So that was kind of the impetus for going. And so he took me and one of my sisters, my younger sister did not come, but we went to Bangkok and Kosamui in Thailand. And I just remember the resort we went to when we got there. My dad instantly felt bad for bringing us there because it was so incredible. And he, it was cheap. Like when he booked the hotel, it was very, very cheap. And he gets there and he's like, Oh my gosh, like, I did not mean to spoil you guys like that.

Like it was. Absolutely incredible. And I think that certainly the tourism has picked up since I went. It was over a decade ago. This was a long time ago. But I just remember having that, having that experience, like when you leave the resort and go and explore the city, I mean, it's just, yeah, all these people, everyone is so kind, so happy. Like I remember my dad like tipping, tipping somebody like in his world like 20 bucks. And they were like, you know, treated us like royalty. I mean, it's just, it was so incredible and such a different place that I'd ever been to in my life that it was this realization of like, wow, we have it way different than than these people for sure.

So I definitely can appreciate that. It was such an incredible experience. Yeah. And I I say all that to set up like my experience because it's a little because I again, I had a lot of the same experiences because even though like my parents are Cambodian and I consider myself Cambodian American, it's a lot different for my experience versus your experience. Especially when I go over to Cambodia and I say this because there's there's an interesting sentiment and I I hate to like, I really don't want to like poorly frame people or say anything super negative. But I think it's just the reality of the way some people think.

It's again, you walk around, a lot of people speak English and that doesn't come naturally. Those two languages, Cambodia and Khmer, Cambodia and Thai, those are in English and Thai, two very different languages. So there's a lot of work that's required to study those two languages and a lot of them are doing this out of survival. So when I go to visit Cambodia, there's, I never got it from my family as much exactly. But definitely when speaking the locals or other strangers, there's a perception of, well, if you've come from America and you have life so much better than us, why can't you speak our language?

And I think I touch on, I think I'd do a better job of writing it out on the blog. And I think that's a fair comment to make. I know it can come off as a very like how dare you like that's very insulting. And I think a part of that is twofold like one it's you know how much you care personally, like within your control. Like, I growing up, I didn't have as much as desire. Yeah, I know I spoke it as a kid, but I grew up in a single mother household. Like my mom was working 12-14 hour days. Like she didn't have time to, you know, speak with me and her and her biggest concern was making sure that, you know, I was doing everything right in school and going to college.

So if that meant that I couldn't speak the language and I was able to speak English at a proficient level and go to college and that's we'll take that sacrifice. But they don't get to that side of the coin. They just see that you get you got to your mom got to escape. We had to stay. We had to suffer and you didn't. So it's again, it's very easy to be like hey you don't know how bad it is that I had it. But at the same time it's. I can't fault them for thinking that because even though they don't they're making assumptions about the way I'm living.

I too can, you know, resonate with the way they've they've lived just because I I literally grew up on the other side of the world. Right. Yeah, yeah. That's a really, really interesting, interesting point. So how how did you end up weaving this into your running journey with the I I? What does WMTRC stand for? Yeah, it's the World, World Mountain and Trail Running Championship. So this is where I I'm still a little naive with like the running rule, especially on the trail scene. That's a completely different. Oh, me too. You're in good company. Like if running was like football, that might as well be like baseball like that.

Like trail runner is completely different. But immense respect for for all trail runners and mountain runners like that is. I've gotten more and more into it and it's very fascinating during, I don't know if it was during COVID. Well, I guess technically it was. It was 2020, mid 2021. I got connected ironically enough through Instagram too, with an A French Cambodian trail runner. I think she somehow like I saw her story get shared about like a kind of a GoFundMe page to help fund her travel from from Paris to Vietnam and a few other international races where she's competing for Cambodia. But she had to pay her way because the the athletics federation in Cambodia doesn't have a ton of money like the US does, and they can't send athletes from all over the world to compete.

But she got to compete in the Southeast Asian Games in in Vietnam, so it's kind of similar to like the USA Championships but for that particular region. So it was a very cool experience for her, donated some money, got connected with her. She saw my race times and I think I just came off of 247 in The Woodlands a few months prior. And she said, hey, like that's a pretty impressive marathon time. We're going to Thailand in 2022 for. Was it 2022? Yeah, it's 2022 for the the trail running World Championships is going to be the first editions. Before it was the mountain races would have their own World Championships and the trail portion have their own World Championships.

So now it's the first time they're combining it. So the mountain races are kind of more like think of it like as a 5K10K type type ability. I'd probably even say more 1500 and 5K because the first race is called the vertical kilometer, which is just straight uphill, like 3300 feet, however far that distance it takes. Sometimes it could be a 5K, sometimes it could be four or five miles, but you're just going straight up 3334 hundred feet and it's just a grind going up to the top. And then there's also like an up and down of course. Or there's like either one loop or two loops.

And then the trail races, they have a short which is like about a 40K and the Long's about an 80 K So I was doing more of the the mountain races. But yeah, it was really awesome to see that we got connected and majority of the team was French, Cambodian. Just because a lot of the trail races tend to be in championship style. Races tend to be more in Europe, so it's easier for them to travel than the people from Cambodia and me being in the US it was not as bad to travel, especially if I was paying my way. It was it, it wasn't a problem.

Yeah, it was a it was a pretty life changing experience to go to Chiang Mai, Thailand and in a race for the team. Although I I ended up with a a sprained ankle, a really bad one on a practice run before the race, but still very, very cool experience. Yeah, the trick. I mean, I don't know how people, yeah. But you to your point, trail running is, you know, night and day to to Rd. racing. And I'm intrigued by it. I I like the idea of, you know, the the vibe of trail running is very different and a lot more laid back. And I like the idea of doing some of that.

But yeah, the terrain itself is like literally, I'm not not that coordinated. So the idea of like mountain stuff and like spraining your ankle is a real thing. Have you gotten over that sprain? Is your ankle still weird, 'cause I feel like ankle sprains are. I've done it. And so it's a pain to recover. Yeah, it's also ironic you mentioned that, too. I thought for the most part last year it was pretty fine. I never got an MRI or got it like checked out in that level of detail. But I did do physical therapy. I thought again after, like when I when I ran Fargo, I thought, like, OK, we've gotten the green light.

Everything's doing OK. And I know, I, I know I put a lot of pressure on myself last year with the fall. Like a lot of that was not planned to run that many marathons, especially all the way from September through December. But this year, it was crazy. I did the half marathon in Houston and everything was fine until I went to Miami the week before the trials and I did the Miami half marathon. And just my shins were just on fire. And I went to go see another chiropractor because the whole time like this past month, like it's actually been really tough because I've been dealing with these on and off shin splints and kind of went through that treadmill marathon in the Tokyo marathon, kind of trying to pull myself together.

And my my interior tip was just on fire so much that it would hurt to walk and saw another specialist. And he was pretty, pretty confident that, you know, a lot of that shin pain in that interior tip pain is related to all the scar tissue build up in the the weak tendons for the ankle sprain, because everything is just kind of pulling. Those. Tendons are pulling on that muscle, so I don't think I'm quite over it yet, but I'm taking some kind of time off here to kind of rest it up, just be smart and enjoy it a little bit. Unfortunately I do have one more spring race, so I'll get over that and then we can finally enjoy the.

I was going to say, I was going to say, when's the rest going to happen? What's your next race? Eugene in a couple weeks. OK, oh, cool. That'll be fun. I want to talk about two more topics because I could dig it. There's so many things we could talk about forever because you've just done so many cool things. I what made me finally reach out to you to be like you got to come on the podcast was your treadmill marathon, which you just mentioned. So first of all, you should know I love the treadmill. I love my treadmill. I I can run. I I haven't done like double digits a lot, but I do like running on my treadmill.

It does not bother me. Whereas a lot of people, runners would say I hate the treadmill. I would rather not run than have to run on a treadmill. So tell me how. How the heck did the treadmill marathon thing come about? It's so cool. See, I'm with. I'm with the other people on this one. I'm sorry, I I don't love it as much as you. I remember you mentioned that and fear your podcast, you like this is nuts. I was like, it's funny you mentioned it because I was like, I listened to that part after I've done this marathon. I was like, oh, she she could easily just done this too.

Yeah. Let's see. Let this begin. OK. So one of the running groups I'm in, we're we're in this group text. Then there's another lady in this group, super awesome Jodi's like she's the one who's always has the energy in the group like every morning she's always super peppy ready to go like incredible person. But she works for she works for a different bunch of different race organizations. But she was involved with the Dallas Marathon and one day, just in the group text, she said. Hey, like, one of the marketing contacts in the Dallas Marathon sent me this promotional idea about partnering with UT Southwestern, which is like the local hospital system here to do like kind of a heart health awareness night at a Mavericks game.

They want to have a a marathon runner compete against a relay team of doctors. So like the deal. The deal is you have to be able to run a marathon on the treadmill and they're looking for like a target time of like 3 1/2 hours. Would anybody want to do this? And I was the first to respond with that. Sounds absolutely ridiculous. Sign me up. Yes, yes. That's so crazy. I did joke that like I was. I know I was with the 1st to respond, but if anybody else wanted to do it, I had Tokyo 2 weeks later. What was it 2 weeks later? No, 3 weeks later I think.

And I was like, I took you like 3 weeks later. So if anybody else wants to do it and like 2 days later, Jody said you're the only person to respond. So I was very much committed to it though, yeah. It's so wild. So, like, so you're literally in the Dallas Mavericks stadium. Like what? How the hell did they get? Where'd they put the treadmills? And, like, did you talk to the doctors, like, while you were running? I want to know more about like, yeah. Absolutely. So they put it's actually in a really good corner. So we like we're in the one of the corner sections so we could see the game it's they take out any seats.

So it's like behind like kind of the first section they have like this area for like it's in the same area as like the kind of the handicap seating area. But we're able to kind of get some of the corners and they or not reallocate but adjust the seats. They yeah the Dockers are awesome. There's a relay team of eight of them. They we worked with the the maps like marketing team. They were giving us a breakdown of OK game times like an hour and a half to two hours. We'll get you guys here early so we could start you early so you can finish.

The idea was to finish by the third quarter. Fortunately we did not finish until like middle of the fourth. I think I was almost done by the beginning of the the 4th with the relay team doctors. I think I felt bad because there was eight of them and I think the first three or four I think they sweet time and which is fine I I I it's it's hard to tell what their ability is and maybe you know that's as much as they could do but with the timing they were running probably anywhere from 9 to 10 minutes per mile making up a big range.

But the last girl who got on the treadmill she needed to run like a sub 85K to finish out before the game ended and she was hauling. I mean, she looked like she was running like, like I said, like a local 5K. And I just felt so bad for her because like, everyone in front of her was just taking their time and she had to go push it. But no, it was, they did a great job organizing and the doctors are awesome, super, super into it. Yeah, they did actually with the time I started off, I think at like 7:30, seven, yeah, 73745 pace. But when they were showing, they would give us updates on the big screen and everything like oh, like Farrell versus like the Docker.

So I was on the Jumbotron like maybe five or six times. But I remember one point I had like a four mile gap on it. I think it's at mile 18 and they're at mile 14. And one of the marketing guys asked me to, can you slow down a little bit so you both can finish on time? You're like, no people are watching. I want to, you know, I want to kick ass. That's so funny. Yeah, that's what. I wanted to go want to go watch the game. Right. True. Yeah. I want to like, yeah, be done with this. Get me off this treadmill. They got us the 4th cricket to the game for a guest.

So I had some friends come over and there's an empty seat. So I was hoping to join them after the game. But it was OK. Like, I got to go hang out with the doctors and, you know, cheer them on and to be there for the game and have so many friends, like texting me like, hey, I'm watching on TV and I saw you. Like, I even had a friend from Brooklyn, was one of my high school friends. He just texted me, just happened to be watching the game. He's like, what are you doing on my TV screen? Why the hell are you running a?

Marathon on a treadmill during this game that is so wild. That's so. And what? And for a great 'cause that for health, heart health, That's so. I mean, what a good idea for them. It makes me want to, like, figure out how we can do this. Actually, now the Indiana Fever, our women's basketball team, just got Caitlin Clark. So I think that. And I know nothing. Like, I'm not a big sports person, don't get me wrong. So I'm not, like, an expert here. But I did know that. And I'm like, it would be so cool to do something like with our marathon, like with the Fever and, like, do something really cool.

But that was wild. So are they going to do that? Is that so that's the first time they did it. Will they do it again you think? I think they did it last year, but they said like. They were really happy with the event. They would love to do it again. So we'll see if it's next year. I mean, I'd certainly be interested. Maybe somebody else wanted to take the ring, but I don't know. I mean, you'd be like, I don't know, that many people crazy. They're crazy enough. To run a marathon. On it. On a treadmill, yeah, it would be in that environment. A ton easier, obviously, than like being alone in your basement on a treadmill.

But but that's so cool. So did they give you a medal? They did not. No medal, the honest one, unfortunately. So maybe that's some advice for the next go around, But we did go like kind of like a swag bag of like a bunch of shirts and like a cup. That's cool. I was fine with that. Yeah. No, it's fun. I was like, it'd be really funny to. Design like a treadmill mirror metal. That would actually be really, really cute. Yeah, it would. Be so and then the other thing I wanted. To talk to you about before we get to the end of the podcast questions is becoming a running coach.

So, you know, obviously John was racing. Where did becoming a coach fit in? Yeah, that. That's a good question. I I wouldn't say there's like a moment in time where I was like, oh I this is something I wanted to do. It was more of just being around so many runners in the community and realizing I've always, I've always thought of myself as just somebody else kind of in the running world. And for me like work is still a big part of my life. There's there's a weird like I'm like a very all in type person. Like running consumes me quite a bit. But there was times at the beginning of even when running was just kind of getting started.

My life, like my career was such a big focus. Like public accounting was something that, you know, that wasn't the end goal. Like I always wanted to be like studying in finance. I've always wanted to be in investment banking and it would be consulting or things like that. And but when I kind of made that push to be more like kind of all in about running and I kind of shifted my focus a little bit on my career. You know, I've taken opportunities like the treadmill stuff or running, you know, for Team Cambodia and just taking these leaps and bounds of faith of like, hey, who knows what's going to happen.

But it's a cool experience and it'll I'll make the best of it no matter what. And I've gone through all these races. I've noticed like a lot of people just ask me a lot of questions that I love. I love talking. I love sharing my experiences. Sometimes it's unsolicited, unwarranted advice, which sometimes I have to be careful about because some people take offense to it, which I totally understand. But more often than not people are soliciting the advice of like hey like what'd you do for training for your first boss and or how'd you how'd you make that breakthrough your first sub three marathon especially during COVID.

How did you breakthrough 250 Like you ran Boston and Chicago back-to-back days. Like, how'd you do that? And it ends up being that, like I kind of had like AI don't know if a knack is the right word, but I enjoy like talking about it and providing my advice and support. And you know, some people bring up their training plans in in the middle of it and I would provide advice on like, hey, here's what's worked for me. Like this is what I found really successful. Because, you know, before I didn't, I wasn't doing like tempo workouts or structured long runs or adding like more speed work or slowing down on the easy days.

Like, you know, maybe it's not always about higher volume. Maybe it's more cross training or sometimes, you know, people will ask about like oh, can I, you know, break 3 hours with 30 miles per week. It's like you can, but the odds are not, you know, in favor of you little things like that. I've realized you know what, maybe I can try to build something to kind of be a little more structure on the coaching side to kind of help people out. And it's it's fairly small. I would say like right now I'm coaching like two people and it's that's most has ever gotten it's like 5 or 6 at a given time which is something I want to keep kind of like balance.

You know always would love the opportunity to grow it as a business and there's just so many running coaches out there and they're all they're all great at what they do. But at the same time there's a there's a balance for me like I have like a full time job That to me actually is a benefit not to again not a knock on any other of the coaches or other people out there who do this full time. I think, you know, all the influencers and run coaches have had their space and their expertise. But for me, being able to show that, hey, I'm working, you know, nine to five or nine to seven, you know, I can still balance out, you know, my normal day-to-day corporate life with running because I feel like that's the majority of people, right?

Yeah. So you're like, hey, listen this. Is the plan because this is my lifestyle as well, so this is what works for me. It's likely to work for you because you have the same balance in life of, you know, work and and running. Yeah, 'cause it is hard to fit it all in. I think I talk to people who don't use coaches because they think that they don't have the time to dedicated to it or their life is crazy. And I'm like, listen, that's why running coaches exist a lot of ways, so they can really help you think about your lifestyle, your schedule and how to fit it in and what will work well for you based on that.

So yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. And I find myself to be a very like. Being a little person too. So I think that's where I'm reaching that inflection point where I'm seeing people like athlete wise or coming to me with different challenges or different scenarios. Like you know, not everybody's going to come to me as like hey, I have a typical nine to five job. Maybe it's someone who works in sales and they travel a lot and maybe it's more difficult for them to get their long runs in or it could be the reverse. Maybe it's more difficult for them to get the speed work in somehow.

And it's it's an interesting problem to solve just because it may not be something that I've experienced, but I know this is something that isn't uncommon either. So the more I can figure this out and learn about it, the better I'm able to kind of speak with other people and share that kind of wisdom, hopefully. Yeah. Well, and you mentioned the. Analytical side of you Farrell. I like when I got onto your blog, I was just. I love it so much because you've got the breakdown of your AB and C goals. You've got like a really good structure to how you, you know, organize your thoughts post race.

And I said to you, I'm like, I love doing race recaps after the fact, but it's hard for me to like get it out there. But I really love the way that you've done that. And you know, you talked about your spreadsheet too. Like, I've got, I just have to have, I don't know how people don't keep track of that. It drives me crazy. I'm like, how do you not know what you did last year in this race? I have no idea. But you know, so that's really cool. So people should. Check it out, yeah. Right, Well I have a horrible memory. So I have to a.

Lot of it is like, I have to, so then I'll go back and like read my race recap from the year before and be like, Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that or whatever. So it's mostly selfish and if it can help somebody else, great. But for me, it's like documenting things so I can remember it. But yeah, just so people know your your website is again the number 2, the word run and then the number four.com. And you have an incredible blog there. So people should go check that out because there's so many stories that we were not able to get to today because we just did not have enough time.

Because you have so many more races you've done and gosh, Chicago, Boston, back-to-back. You're just crazy. But yeah, you're one of those crazy people that did that, which is just amazing to me. But I want to be mindful of your, you know, corporate finance job that you're getting ready to to start now. So I'm going to ask you the end of the podcast questions if you're ready for that. Absolutely. Hit me with them. Perfect. OK. So favorite. Running mantra or song, which I realized song may not be your thing because you don't listen to music while you run. So mantra, perhaps? Yeah. I've actually wondered if people would just like.

The ones who don't run with music, if they can, just like in their heads, like sing it to themselves. I've always wondered that. But that's a random aside. I don't know if anybody's ever brought that up. Yeah, maybe. No, but I I could. See that? Yeah. Because like I I I will say I I will do that on. Runs from time to time. I will think about like a song or like a concert that, you know, I went to and I'll just kind of hum along or think about it. But I would say running mantra wise, it doesn't always. I'll say that the success rate isn't always great, but I still tell it to myself no matter what that you can just, I can do hard things.

Like we've done this before, we'll do it again. We can do hard things. No matter how bad it feels, we just have to get it done. Like there's there's nothing to it, I think. And a lot of things kind of gravitate back to that. I've been reading a book that I'm still trying to finish The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And one of the things that's talked about very commonly in the book is about controlling your reaction to things like even though like we can't control the weather on race day, you can control how you react, which we all are like Oh my gosh, it's going to be so hot.

Everyone's going to say the same thing but in the race itself when I'm running it's it'll be OK Everyone has to deal with the same thing. Like this is hard but we've done this before. We can do it again. It's might not be the a day but it might not be your a goal or a day but it is another day to to do this. So I, I really tell myself that to help stem off some more like kind of positive thoughts about like just reacting better to the conditions. Because I do think it compounds on itself where, yeah, the more you negatively think about the situation and it's like, Oh my gosh, this hurts.

And of course everything's going to hurt and it's kind of supposed to is. But the more you can positively react, I think the better you'll end up being. Yes. Yeah. Another question kind of along those lines a little bit, as you mentioned earlier, you know, without using music you find ways to distract yourself. Could you give people a couple of examples of that 'cause I I'm always selfishly looking for tricks on how to distract my mind. Yeah, I'll give two versions one's. More positive You know, one's a little bit more negative the more +1 is at a bigger race. I I know this. I think there's like a like, it's weird.

Like with racing, it's either like I am like the most friendly person or I'm the most like cutthroat competitive person out there. But I think both of both provide fuel to the fire in different ways. The first one would be with crowds. I love like reading the signs, saying thank you to the volunteers and the police officers are given the high five power ups, assuming I'm not having to weave all around the horse and this and that, but just trying to do some engagement with the crowd. You know, every now and then I'll pump up my arms like in Chicago, like in when the crowd's going nuts.

That helps take my mind off things a little bit and kind of gives me something to focus on the other one that's a little bit more negative, especially if it's more towards the end of the race. Like my favorite part about Boston, especially after doing it the second time, is experiences a huge factor in that race. Like knowing that course and the differences between first half and the second-half, where the hills are, where to push, where to hold back. I think that's immensely helpful versus someone who's never done that course before. Because if that course can just suck you in so fast with the crowds and it's an amazing race.

But you find out who's done this before or who's pushing a little too hard after heartbreak. Because the second time I did it that was more of like me trying to you know get a get a good sub 3 pace and and try to negative split the race. And I knew that once we got past heartbreak at 21, it's go time. And as soon as we make that clearance I start pushing up the hill, getting those last few steps in to get my momentum back. And I just noticed there was like this other group of people just going with me and we're all just rolling this together with the same exact thought.

And the last 10K was a blast because we were just going from I think 7710 pace to clear the hill to like 63640, even 620 and we were just rolling through. The pack of just. Passing all these people who just got absolutely bonked out by heartbreaking, it was just such a great time. Because we all knew like, this is the race we wanted to have, but each person we passed was just like a little bit more motivating. So that's the other side of the coin where it's like, OK, I see somebody else, they're having a tough time. I'm not having nearly, I'm not feeling nearly as bad.

So we can we can keep this pushing. Yeah, I kind of do that too. Especially when I'm having a good day, like being able to like point out, OK, I wonder how old that woman is if she is in my age group. Well, I better go find out, you know, trying to kind of pick people off. Even though I'm not competing really with anyone besides myself, it helps me kind of push harder at certain points. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I will say this too like as I do past. People I try to do my best to to at least encourage them on. So if they at least make eye contact, I'll say like, come on, let's go.

Like you've got this or something because you never know when that one person, like, finally puts it together and they're like, thank you for that. I really needed that. And you know on the flip side of that too, guys, I had my bad days where I'm the one getting past and I'm like, hey man, good job. Hey, you go get a girl like whoever it is, like you're crushing it and they'll be the same. They're Come on, you've got. This I'm like, I don't. Know if I got this? Yeah, right. It's in some of those moments. Too, I never know really what the right thing to say is, especially if someone's walking and they're clearly, like, in pain, you know?

But I always do try to be like, come on, like, yeah, you've got this much lap. You can do this. Like, it's it's really gratifying, too when people actually be like, you're right, I'm going to start running again. Although I did that. I forget what race this was in, but I did that to a woman and then she ended up beating me. Oh yeah. It was at this recent local race where she was walking and there's a hill at the end and I'm like, I'm like, look, you can see the finish line. It's like right there, you know, let's go, like run. And she did.

And then she beat me and thankfully she wasn't in my age group because then I would have not won my age group. It would have been a little. Disappointing, but but it was fine because I'm so lucky to be able to now be getting my fitness to where I can actually think about that. Usually it would be just trying to finish. So, so that's really fun. OK. And then next question for you is what is your next finish line or milestone which we got Eugene now coming up. So will that be your first time there? It'll be second I've done the. Half there, but I've never done the full.

The original plan was to give myself two shots at a fast time after Tokyo, or another shot at a fast time after Tokyo. But you know this is when training was going well and before the the shin splints, I've already committed to the travel and everything. So I figured why not just go over there and just try to have fun with it and then get ready for the summer because I'll be doing Chicago in October. So ramping for that, ramping for that one again I'm I really am like getting the. Itch to do a full I didn't do one last year, right? Yeah, not last year.

So I'm kind of like maybe on that every other year. Train with young kids. It's just tricky. And it's, you know, hard. I can fit in the mileage, but then it's like I get really tired afterwards. And I'm not as great of a mom when I'm really tired. But yeah, I'm thinking about either trying. They do. Dear Lord, you got that right. But I'm thinking about coming up to volunteer if I don't run Chicago because I met a guy in Fargo, actually, he's from the area and he helps organize the first aid station. That's his job and for the race. And so I might go up and and do that.

So I'll keep you posted if I end up going up there. But, but yeah, OK. And then so you've done Berlin, Chicago, Boston and Tokyo. Have you done London and New York as well? Are you a six star or what's the plan for that? So did New York last year. London is the. Last one last OK, OK, London's left. So hopefully next year. OK, yeah, that's cool. That'll be really exciting. I want. I would love to do that. I would love to do all of them. It's just yeah, it's tricky like getting in the lottery or figuring out with schedules and everything how to how to make it happen.

And so we shall see. But this has been so fun. Thank you so much for taking the time. But before you start your day of work, did you already get a run in this morning? I did not. I. Unfortunately had a late night last night with work, but I'm hoping that we had some deadlines on the 15th that we're trying to meet. So hopefully we can push through that and then I can get out this afternoon if the weather permits. It's the weather's nice sneak out for like 3 or 4 miles, just trying to ease back. Into it. A little bit with the shin splint.

I'm feeling better, but still saying being so cautious about it. Yeah, well, I've had shin. Splints in high school and they were painful so I'm I'm sorry that you're going through that. Hopefully rest helps and you can take the summer. That'll be all right. It's really heal. I think it's I. I've I've learned that it's like with running injuries if you just they they they happen when you especially when you over train and you put in as much work as you do for these marathons and you just got to yeah you just got to roll again goes back to the whole like reaction thing you know sometimes from an injury perspective yeah well at least with my equal frame there's some definitely some really down moments especially when everyone's really ramping up that same time it's every there's an always an opportunity somewhere.

So trying to do my best to stay focused on the positive. Yeah, good for you. That's good advice. Well. Thank you again and thank you to everybody who's listened to today's episode and happy running. And thanks everyone.

Ally Brettnacher