Episode 42: John Calabrese - Will John Die?

Episodes

Feb 9

Listener note: This episode includes discussion of alcohol use and getting sober.

I caught John Calabrese the day before his third try at the free, no-frills Wild Oak Trail 100. We talk sobriety, the demons that come out on the trail, and his friend Donald.

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About this episode

John Calabrese is a Virginia ultrarunner, a dad to a 10-year-old dancer, and a board member of the Virginia Happy Trails Running Club. He has been sober for over a decade, didn't really fall for running until he was 36, and has since won a 24-hour track race with 106 miles and finished the Barkley Fall Classic five times. He also writes shoe reviews and race recaps for Believe in the Run and is a caregiver for Donald, a man with cerebral palsy he met at a half marathon.

We recorded the day before John started the Wild Oak Trail 100, a self-supported race with roughly 8,000 feet of climbing per loop that he had not finished in past attempts. We talk about balancing ultras with being a dad, the honest story of how he got sober, what a fat ass race is, Ainsley's Angels, and what pushing a rider in a race gives back.

In this episode, we discuss

Heading into the Wild Oak Trail 100 after a snowy DNF in 2021
Why balancing family and ultras is harder than the race itself
How mental demons and dad guilt led to past DNFs
His daughter, dance recitals, and being a role model through sport
Discovering running in the Navy and not loving it until age 36
Being stationed in Hawaii during September 11
Getting sober because the legal system made him, and why he never judges anyone else
What a fat ass race is and the free races of the Virginia Happy Trails Running Club
The Potomac Heritage 50K and its egg-carrying, onion-eating challenges
Sleeping in his car at the trailhead and racing self-supported with no crew
Ragnar advice on sharing a van with friends and strangers
Meeting Donald and his dad Michael at a half marathon and pushing riders with Ainsley's Angels
Reviewing shoes for Believe in the Run, including the Brooks Caldera
Strange things found on the trail
Eighties action movies, Olivia Rodrigo, and his dream of the 3,100-mile Self-Transcendence race

Chapters

00:00 · Intro
03:00 · Breezy and the Wild Oak Trail 100
10:00 · Being a dad and an ultrarunner
14:00 · The Navy and finding running at 36
15:30 · Sobriety
23:00 · Fat ass races and the trail community
27:00 · Race weekend logistics
36:00 · Free races and the urge to quit
40:00 · Ragnar van advice
44:00 · Donald and Ainsley's Angels
54:00 · Reviewing shoes for Believe in the Run
1:04:00 · Comedy and weird finds on the trail
1:09:00 · Songs and eighties action movies
1:12:00 · Dream races and the 24-hour win
1:17:00 · How to follow the race

Where to find John

Mentioned in this episode

Races: Wild Oak Trail 100, Potomac Heritage 50K, Marine Corps Marathon, Barkley Fall Classic, Barkley Marathons, Self-Transcendence 3100 Mile Race, Western States 100, HURT 100, Ragnar Trail, Indy Mini
Organizations and charities: Virginia Happy Trails Running Club, Ainsley's Angels, Believe in the Run, US Navy
Other: Brooks Caldera, Hoka Tennine, John Kelly, Can't Catch Me Now by Olivia Rodrigo, UltraSignup

Related episodes

Frequently asked

What is a fat ass race?

As John Calabrese explains, a fat ass race is a free, low-key trail race put on by a running club, where runners often bring food or supplies to stock the aid stations, like the Virginia Happy Trails Running Club's Wild Oak Trail 100.

Who is John Calabrese, Breezy Trailhead?

John Calabrese, known as Breezy Trailhead, is a Virginia ultrarunner, Navy veteran and Believe in the Run shoe reviewer who has been sober for over a decade and won a 24-hour track race with 106 miles.

How is John Calabrese involved with Ainsley's Angels?

John Calabrese pushes riders in races with Ainsley's Angels and works as a caregiver for Donald, a man with cerebral palsy he met after seeing Donald and his dad Michael race a half marathon.

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Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically, so it may contain errors.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones with Ally Brettnacher incredible stories and tales of triumphs with everyday people achieving their goals in fitness. This podcast brought to you by Athlete Bouquets. Celebrate finish lines and milestones of the people that you love by visiting athlete bouquets.com.

Hey, it's Allie. Welcome to episode 42. It is late Thursday, February 8th. I am cramming in getting this recording done as I tend to do to myself, and I thought I was gonna have adult time. Right? And lo and behold, I have my 3-year-old, almost 3-year-old. A daughter on my floor. So she is chatting to herself and hopefully you won't hear too much of her, but she's adorable and she's lucky.

She is. This week I'm coming back from Mexico. We got back late Monday night. There were 16 of us. We had eight couples go to Cancun, all inclusive resort, great weather, crate F Friends, just. So much fun, but almost need a vacation to recover from the vacation. And instead, my coach prescribed a 12 mile run yesterday with some speed work.

So now I'm just feeling like I really need a nap. But I'm looking forward to this weekend just to, to hang out, maybe watch the Super Bowl and, um, I can't really complain too much about being so tired because literally as we speak, perhaps as you listen to this, if you listen to it on February 9th or on the 10th, John Calabrese, this week's guest is running the Wild Oak Trail run in Virginia, and it is a 100 mile race, or at least the, the race that he is running this weekend is a hundred miles and this is his.

Uh, I think third attempt at finishing this race, and I am cheering him on as I'm sure you will be too after you listen to this episode. But we talk about balancing life and ultra running. You know, John is a dad, is a dad. A dance dad, we talk about br his sobriety. He's been sober for over a decade. We talk about his community in on the East coast and what a fat ass race is.

I've never heard of that, but they are free races for the trail running community. We talk about, you know, kind of along with sobriety, just mental health and battling demons and how running is such a mental sport, which I know that. A lot of people listening can appreciate. We talk about Ainsley's Angels and Ragnar, which I'm sure some of you who listen to this podcast are tired of hearing me talk about.

But both things I'm super excited about conquering this year myself. And we talk about how John is a caregiver to Donald, who is somebody that he actually met while running a half marathon. And so we talk about him and how he inspires John, and it's just really incredible the work that John is doing and what Donald has inspired John to do in the running community.

John also writes for Believe in the Run. He writes shoe reviews and he does a lot of race recapping. So along with going to follow him on Instagram at um, he's Breezy Trailhead, is that right? Breezy Trailhead. And then that's also his website. So check that out for a recap. And we will be certainly cheering him on as he conquers this gigantic race.

And I thought it was for some reason later in the year. But sure enough, he's like, no, I'm spending the night at the Trailhead and going tomorrow. So how cool? And I really hope that he has an incredible experience and knows that we're all cheering for him. So I hope you really enjoy this conversation with my new friend John Calabrese.

Hello, this is Ally Brettnacher and I am here with John Calabrese. However, I would like to say it a Calabrese. I like the Italian spin. And is that Yeah, just how you got breezy in your Instagram handle from like Yeah. People say Breezy. I've been called everything with that name. Um, so like in the Navy I've heard it all.

Anything you can imagine. Then some people just love that name. They love my last name. They love playing with it. They love doing different things to it. So, um, yeah, it's just, it's a fun name. People like to go wild with it. I like it. Do some people call you breezy? Yeah, breezy. Uh, call Cool breeze. Um, breezy f just whatever man.

Whatever, whatever. I like that one. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so for those of you who may not already follow John on Instagram, he is Breezy Trailhead. So that's me for the record. That's you. And I am just in awe of all the crazy stuff you're doing. I don't even know where to start. Tell, tell us about the race that you're tackling this year that you have D nfd, because I find your persistence to be really amazing.

Well, I mean, it could be better. So I haven't been there since 2021. It got in my head last time 'cause it was really like Snowmageddon. It was like, you ever see the movie? The thing with, um, Kurt Russell? Well you should watch that. It's a great horror movie. But, um, they're, they go to an uh, they go to like Antarctica or something and they have to like, uh, do some research and then like, uh, alien attacks.

It's like those con it was like those conditions out there. So luckily we don't have the snow this year. I got that going for me. But, um, even harder than the conditions of this race is like, uh, just doing like family stuff during the week before. 'cause I have to go there and sleep at the trail head tonight.

And, um, yeah, I'm still doing kid stuff today. We're doing this podcast, um, you know, transferring dancers around for, uh, you know, just doing dad stuff. So, yeah, it's just, if you're like a, if you have like a big family or something for me, I, I just, I find it's hard to balance that with, you know, going and doing, I guess self-supported race, you know, also, so that, that's probably the biggest.

Part Just balancing out. Yeah, but I mean, like, it's funny 'cause like when I actually get out on a trail, like once, like, you know, once like the um, you know, the day-to-day stuff's done. And don't get me wrong, I love hanging out with my family. It's fun. I love my daughter. It's just stressful though, you know, getting people around certain places, making sure they get the dance and uh, you know, just doing all the dad stuff.

But you, once I get on the trail, I just like unwind. I'm like, okay, I have to do this. But, um. What can be rough. Again, if there is really rough weather conditions like snow or hours of rain or something like that, then you're just on top of everything. You're just like, all right, I'm good. I, I think that's why I've dnf a lot in the past.

I either miss my family, like, you know, or I just like, uh, you know, if it rains for hours and hours, I'm just like, I could be in a warm bed and I can be back with my family and there's stuff I probably need to do. Because to me, like as fun as all running is, it could, it's a selfish sport. I mean, like, you know, in order to do a lot of these events, you, you have to put your family, you know, off to some extent.

I mean, and you know, it's balance. You know, if I do an event, I make sure I make it up in other ways or I, I, I try to work hard leading up to it or whatever. Mm-hmm. But, um, it can be a selfish sport and it's hard to, it's very hard to balance. So, um, yeah. That's always like a thing with ulcers with me. Yeah.

I relate to that. So the Wild A Oak Trail run, you're doing the 100, correct? Yes. A hundred mile. Mm-hmm. Not K. That's a big difference. And I wish, where is it? Yeah, where is it? So it's, um. It's, it's kind of in the middle of nowhere. It's like in the middle of like, some, like, um, it's over by, um, Bridgewater University, over by, uh, I wanna say like Harrisonburg.

But yeah, it's just like, like cell phones don't really work there. It, it's just like, kind of like, um, it's great. I mean, like, it's kind of a cool place just to kind of like unplug and go as the race, you know, and trailer call just, you know, place to go wild. It's, it's a nice time. You, yeah. You could go hour.

Like, so, I mean, I'm hoping I'm not gonna be alone for long stretches. I've got, my friend, he's running a two, Tony Taylor. I've done a bunch of races with him, so I'm hoping that, you know, we can stay together a whole race. But the problem with this race mm-hmm. If you bank on that, you're probably not gonna finish.

'cause like, you can't count on anybody unfortunately. Right. Things can happen, you know, if you finish, if you start in a finish race like this with somebody, you're extremely lucky because a, you know, a lot of the times that's just not gonna happen. You know, they might, somebody might get injured. You know, they might have those thoughts.

I was thinking earlier, like, oh, I want to go in my bed. I don't want to be out here anymore. This as fun as, this is John, I gotta go. You know, that gotta kind of stuff. So like mm-hmm. Yeah, and I don't blame anyone for that. I mean, like, you know, it takes a, it takes a lot to wanna stay out in the woods for like a whole weekend.

So, yeah, I don't put that anybody, and I'm just kind of like preparing myself to be alone. Hopefully, again, Tony and I stay together the whole time, but, you know, if you think that you're just, you're delusional. You have to think that you're gonna be alone, at least for like a good amount, a good chunk of it.

Yeah, I feel like it's hard enough to stay with somebody on a, just a road marathon or road. Yeah. Any road race really. 'cause you're, you know, together, but you always have your own individual race and needs and Yeah. Well one thing I do with my girlfriend, like, uh, so like we do road races a lot. Um, I'm more of like a trail person, but I, you know, I do run with her and yeah, it's almost work to like to stay with her at times.

Just 'cause like Yeah. You know, everyone runs different, you know, I might wanna go faster than she does. I might, she, you know, I might burn her out and get her mad when, or the opposite. So, yeah, like, um mm-hmm. I think because I work so well with her, you know, I think I am good at staying with people.

However, with that said. It can be more work, you know, than, than you're already doing on the race to try to like, you know, cater to somebody else. And ultimately Yeah. You know, on a hundred, that's a detriment. So you really gotta, you really gotta do your own thing out there, in my opinion. Yeah. Um, and so you are from the East coast, I should mention a lot of my listeners.

I are local to where I'm from, which is Carmel, Indiana. So Central Indiana. But you're out in Virginia? Correct. And so the cities that you mentioned, even though they're in the middle of nowhere, they're in the middle of nowhere in Virginia. Yes, that's correct. The wild trail. Okay. I travel a lot to like, yeah, I go to Pa, West Virginia.

I go all over the place, like to run mountains and stuff like that around here. But, um, okay. Yeah, for the most part, the race I do are here in Virginia. And how old is your daughter? She just turned 10. Yeah. So she's into her own sport. And that's the thing too. She's in, she's getting into her own sports, like dance and, uh mm-hmm.

You know, she, she loves other sports too. Like, she likes playing soccer and basketball and like, it's gonna be cool to see where she goes with it, but I know I'm gonna have to like, kind of ease back. And that's hard. Especially like the amount I've been running, it's kind of hard to just take a step back from that.

So I gotta, again, I can't be as, I can't be selfish, you know? I, I do, I think we have to have deals with each other or something like, Hey, I'm gonna be here, but you know, I wanna do this race, or, you know, and, you know, it's tough. Like her recitals, those are like ultras in themselves, like, you know, you know, changing clothes, get to the changing station we got, they have like an aid station and stuff.

It's like, it is very ultra like, I'm like, well, it just looks familiar. So like. Um, yeah, we we're both, you know, doing, we're really dedicated people doing our sports, so, um, I might have to ease back a little bit because she's, uh, she's gonna take priority soon. Yeah. Um, I have a niece who just turned 10, who's out in Alexandria, Virginia.

And yeah, that age is just, it's really cool. They're, they just seem like adults sometimes. It's awesome. My 3-year-old it's does too, but I am, I'm a mom of two girls. One is six and a half and the other is almost three. And ironically, I, yesterday I saw only because of the internet that it was Women in Sports Day, national Women in Sports Day yesterday.

So, you know, what does that mean for you and catering to your young daughter and how she looks at sports and running, seeing you run? How do you think about that, that. That's every day for me, like for her sports and stuff like that. 'cause I mean, like, you know, I, I love taking her to dance. I mean, like for me, one of the things that messed me up, especially on this race right here, when my daughter was younger, it really got to me when I tried to do ultras, like, I'm like, you know, she's young.

I should be with her. Like I, I felt like a lot of regret and stuff like that, especially when I was on the trail. Like those demons just came right out. There was like, hi Jaan. Like, you know, it wasn't like any like, fight at all. So like, I would want to DNF races. Like if you look at my DNFs on ultra signup, I have a lot.

And like, I'm not gonna blame it on that. I mean, I'm just honest with it. Like that's what got in my head more than anything. Like, even like I've been in shape to finish races. Like my friends have told me before, like, dude, there's no reason you should finish that. I'm like, yeah, but you know, I'm weak mentally when it comes to like, thinking about these thoughts.

Yeah. So, um, yeah, I think what I like about her being 10 now is that she's so independent and she's got her own things going on also, and she understands more that, you know. Sports, you know, it really helps people grow and do their own thing and just, you know, be able to battle other stuff. You know, life is hard and I mean, I think mm-hmm sports really helped people get through things and just be able to like, you know, be in a good place.

And I think that, you know, we both understand that a little bit better now and we can work together on that. Mm-hmm. So it's not as hard as it was when she was younger. 'cause Yeah, again, I just had like a lot of dark thoughts like, oh, you're being a cruddy father and all this stuff, and just, you know, that wasn't the case.

I mean, I spent a lot of time with my daughter, but, uh, I just always felt bad about being out, like long periods of time, like on a race like this. But, um, again, she's got her own thing now and, you know, I just love her watching her do sports. And even if, you know. She doesn't like run marathons or do alters or anything like that.

I feel like it's at least, you know, presenting a good, like me being a good role model, her seeing me do my sports and then she can apply that to her as like, you know, dad got through the a hundred, I can do this dance. Or like, you know, he, he worked through that. You know, just, I think it's a positive, you can be a positive role model by doing your own sports and just showing your kids.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I. My girls are young and I feel those same feelings sometimes. Mm-hmm. For sure. The mom guilt is so real. That's rough. Um, and, and it's rough, but I, you know, they look at me when I'm in my running shoes and they're, you know, the little one mama running, mama running. And I just, this year, actually on January 1st, my six and a half year old, and I achieved a huge milestone where she actually rode her bike.

While I ran. There you go. And there's that glimpse of like, cool, you know, we could do this together someday. And kind of like you, I don't, you know, running is my sport. I don't, it doesn't have to be hers, but selfishly I would love it to be, I'm the same way. You never wanna push sports on kids, but it like Yeah.

It's, if you really cool. It's hard. And I, in one of the podcasts you were on that I listened to, you mentioned, you know, the idea of running the Marine Corps marathon with your daughter someday. And I had to tell you, I ran, I got to run the Marine Corps marathon with my dad. And actually we did, did we, we stayed together the whole race.

That race. Um, we've done other marathons where we didn't stay together, but, so there's hope, I hope. Someday you get to do that with her and Yeah. I can't wait for me like running though, like I didn't get into it until I was in, whoa. 36. I think 36. That's when I really actually started liking it. Okay.

Three, six years old. Yeah. So like when I was in the Navy, they planted the seed basically to, um, train for like, you know, the, the physical readiness test. And, um, I liked running like parts of, I just wasn't disciplined. Like I did track in, uh, middle school and, and like I just wasn't interested in high school.

I just wanted to like party and be a jackass. So like, uh, the Navy helped plant the seed and then, um, yeah, just kind of took it from there. Took a while. It took a while left. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I used to hate it too, especially like, I grew up playing soccer and then I hated like the mile warmup. And finally in college is when I kind of started to get, do the long distance thing.

Albeit not really for healthy reasons, it was more about. You know, running off all the booze than it was for anything else, which now I have a much healthier relationship with both booze and running. But, um, that's good. I wanted to to ask you about that too, John. 'cause you've been sober now for over a decade.

Is that, is that true? Yeah. So like, um, that is funny that you mentioned, well, it's not funny, but like in the military, at least when I was in, I know they've cleaned it up a lot, but like, um, a lot of this phys physical readiness tests, like people would be like drunk running. It'd be like, yeah, it's not right.

But it was kind of hilarious too. Like, I, you kind of like, I kind of like, wish I could go back and look at my, my times from the PRT. Like, whoa, I was that drunk and I did that good or I did that bad. Like, you know, like, it'd be funny to like look at the sport, like the stats and the sports alls from people like doing that.

Like, my friend's like, whoa, dude. Like what are you, what are you doing? Yeah. You deserve to fail this. No, I, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. That's, that's wrong. But, um, yeah, I, I, I, I was trying to like look up those times somehow, but I couldn't, I couldn't figure a way to do that. Anyone in the Navy that knows or has access that just contact me because like, look that up.

Funny stuff. Where were you with the Navy? Were you in on the east coast still or so? Um, I got lucky in the Navy. It's funny, I, um, you know how you get like a dream sheet? Like where you, you get to like, kind of like say where you'd like to go? They never follow that thing. Okay. 'cause I, I told 'em Norfolk, I was like, yeah, I wanna go to Norfolk.

It's in Virginia. All my friends were like, you're stupid dude. Why do you wanna go to Norfolk? I was like, dude, I'm right here. This is where I, you know, I, I I grew up around the area and um, I wrote Norfolk first San Diego second and Hawaii third. Where do you think that they put me? Just take a, it took Hawaii.

A wild guess. Hawaii. Hawaii, yeah, of course. Yeah, Hawaii. So like, but I mean, I, you know, I'm like 19, 20-year-old. I'm just like, I didn't like being there just 'cause it was so, like, when you get there then you're like, oh, you know this, you know, you're so far away from home and stuff. And also like, I was in during, you know, like, um, once September 11th happened, so, um, it was rough.

I mean, like, you know, we were constantly underway. Didn't really get to hang out in the island much, constantly working. But, um, I got to say I got to be in Hawaii. I mean, there was that, so I, I don't regret that, but it, it was just a tough time to be in. 'cause you know, we were. We went, the military went from just like something, you know, kind of like real peaceful to just, you know, having to, you know, that having that situation happen.

It was just, it was very difficult. Yeah, I bet. That's really interesting. Have you been back to Hawaii since? No, I would love to go back and do the Hurt 100 or any of the fine races on the island, but, um, yeah, that's something definitely. And again, I'm, it's hard for me to travel 'cause I have a, you know, a big family and stuff and, uh mm-hmm.

I, I'm pretty much sick on the East coast, but you know, that is definitely a dream. But, um, I think if I were to travel and do like a, like a destination type race, I would probably still just stay on the East coast and just do something with my daughter, like a Disney race or something. I know that sounds lame, but I mean, like, there, there's nothing cooler than doing like one of those races with your kid.

I'd be like, uh, yeah, I, I, I would totally do that. Anyone who thinks that sounds lame, should not be, just don't, don't even stop listening. Now if anyone thought that was la, I'd like, you know, that's awesome. Any you, you like alter runners that are like, oh right, he's gonna run a five P with this kid.

There's people like that, like, whatever, get over, get over yourself. Right, right. I really like your mentality around the trail running and just not taking yourself quite as seriously. And, you know, you've done some pretty fast times, relatively speaking, you've won a 24 hour race, that's crazy. But I like, I'm kind of getting in this mindset where I wanna balance my se more serious racing.

I did air quotes there for anyone who's watching a video with just enjoying the experience and, you know, having a good time and just kind of doing it for yourself versus, you know, for any other reason. I think people like, uh, it's unfortunate. I think people just like get way too serious about running and like they have to maintain like a certain whatever, you know, just, just have fun with it.

Mm-hmm. You know, it's, it's there. Keep you healthy, have fun. I just use this to again, try to be a better dad just to drive you a better person. Just, you know, thinking, also, just thinking about good ideas while I'm running. I think that's just like, for me, it helps just balance my life. Like, I can think really good ideas.

It helps me like wanna write. Mm-hmm. Like, that's one thing, like I used to, I wanted to write a lot when I was a kid and I think sports really helped me, like get in that mindset. But then when I stopped, you know, doing sports and getting into like alcohol or whatever, I mean a lot of that went away. And I think I'm just like now really?

Trying to like get back to where I was when I was younger, like having those aspirations to like write. Mm-hmm. And just, you know, find ways to just, you know, clear all the noise outta my head and just be able to focus on, you know, certain subjects and just, you know, things that pop in there. You know, it's, it's hard.

I mean, like we, again, going back to being out busy, you know, we are as adults, I think it's just, um, you know, but unfortunately people just, uh, they run in that trap of drinking just to kind of like, you know, trying to help out with, with that noise when they should be doing other things that are more healthy, like running.

Yeah. So it's tough being an adult's hard and I just find running is a good way to help keep that kid alive in you, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Amen to that. I, you know, I've talked about this before about alcohol with, you know, I still drink, in fact, I just got back from Mexico this week. And, but I, I, I think of it differently now.

Like I, I'm struggling to even, to continue to really wanna do it as much because it just doesn't serve me very much. Like, I'm like, what am I getting out of this? I think, you know, since I've been kind of in the running space for my job, more air quotes, I, you know, I've just found that I don't care anymore about what other, other people think.

And it's like, so I don't need alcohol anymore to get me on the dance floor. Like, I will dance like an idiot no matter what. Right. So was there a moment, John, in your life where it was like, okay, I'm getting sober, like right now, or? Well, okay, so it happen over time. I, I'm glad you bring this up. So, like, this is like, kind of like a weird thing.

I, I was just talking about this, uh, the other day, like, uh, I didn't do it on my own. I was, I was forced to basically by the legal system. So like, there's that, uh, so like I always tell people, I will not judge you for your drinking or whatever like that. 'cause I, I didn't do it on my own. Like, if, if I had it my way, I'd probably still be smoking cigarettes, drinking and doing stuff like that.

So like, um, yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, I, I never judge. I try to like, um, if I see somebody like that, I could, I could help with, with my story definitely. But I would never preach to somebody not to drink because I mean, like, you know, that's, you gotta learn on your own or you gotta be, you gotta, in my case, you gotta be forced to.

So like, uh, yeah. Right. It's just kind of, you have to go through your own process. Well said. It's true. 'cause no matter what, like if you try to tell a friend or something, they're just not gonna hear it. Mm-hmm. Until they're ready to hear it. Or just do it on their, on their own time. Uh, it's funny too, 'cause like, I mean, I go out with like, you know, runners, I mean, everyone has like, the posts to like raise beer and stuff like that.

I mean, it's almost ingrained in the culture. I mean, like, I don't have a problem with people drinking around me or anything anymore, like, you know, which, you know, at first I just didn't want to go around it at all. Like, I just didn't wanna be around it. But like now, I just, I don't really care at all. Like, I, I really don't care what people are doing.

Like, you know, trail runners, like a lot of 'em, like, you know, they, they smoke weed and stuff like that too. Like, it just, yeah, none of it really bothers me. I mean, like, I, I think the funniest. This doesn't happen too much anymore. But when I first started running, like in 20 17, 18, there was like a lot of people that, uh, were like tripping when I was running with 'em, like just like on like mushrooms or acid or something like that.

Like, I was just laughing. I was like, dude, how can you run? I can barely, like, I can barely not trip on this over what, what are you, what are you doing? Like, it was just kind of funny, but like, uh, don't really see too much of that anymore. But like, I guess I think in a weird way, I kind of, even though that's not me at all, I think I kind of like that wildness of the trail community.

Like, like you would never hear somebody saying, I'm tripping at a rot race. At least I haven't ran into it. I, I, you know, like, uh, yeah. Yeah. I just think it's kind of like, it's a weird world. I kind of hope it just kind of stays that way, even though I'm not like, completely, like I'm not that wild. I mean, like, I, I mean, probably for most trail orders I, like I mentioned earlier, I'm probably kinda lame compared to them.

But like, uh, I just, I like the way people are, they're just kind of really genuine people. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, you should know too, John, I probably should have told you this at the start. I have, I have not. I've not done, I've done a trail run, I should say it was a half marathon many, many years ago. I don't even know how long ago.

But I've never done an ultra marathon. And so the more I talk about it, the more I'm interested in it. And I knew it was gonna be dangerous having you on the podcast 'cause you're just gonna ah, keep me like going back, peaking my interest. Right. About the community and you know, so what, what would you say it's easy to fall for?

Is there a, it's easy to fall for? What would you say to somebody who's never, never done an ultra or like, doesn't really know much about trail? So I would say this, seek out your local club that puts on like, you know, like the free fat ass race. Like, so like a lot of races, a lot of clubs will put on like a free race basically that's like, you know, like a 50 k or something like that.

Um, I'm in the Virginia Happy Trails running club. We put on a lot of free races. Uh, interesting. You know, there's clubs like that everywhere. But, um, to really get like, you know, kind of like your homegrown race, I definitely say like, seek one of those out just as you know. All the trail club, all the trail clubs out there are really unique I feel like.

And you know, you just get like a real good vibe of what's going on with one of those and stuff like, I mean you can, you know, you can go ahead and pay and there's a lot of cool races out there that you know you pay for and stuff like that. But I think to really get like that homegrown grassroots community, it's good to do one of these free ones where everyone brings like a food item to stock the eight stations.

And you know, you get like volunteers that wanna be out there 'cause they love the community, not just because, you know. They're doing it just to get into like a race or they're like, you know, um, to meet some requirement or to get paid or something like that. You just, you get people that, for the love of it, go out there and want to volunteer and just love the community and like, you know, that's what draws you in.

You're like, wow, this is, this is really cool that they're helping us out here. And it makes you want to help out also in volunteer. Mm-hmm. And I, I think that's just the thing of it. You know, you just, you know, you take care of the community and you, you know, you help put on the races and you know, you just wanna get involved.

It just draw, it draws you in like that. Like, I never thought I'd be on the board of the Virginia Happy Trails running club and yeah, I'm here I am, you know, like you just wanna help out and like, keep it weird and a wonderful little world. You said something I'd never heard, and I don't know if it's a term or it's a race that's local to you, the fat ass free fat ass race.

What does that mean? Yes, did I hear you? So I don't even, I don't even, I don't know where that word came from. I've said this before, like I feel weird even throwing it out there, but that's just what they're called. Yeah, it's uh, it's just a free race. A lot of 'em are 50 Ks, but some of, you know, there's some longer ones too.

Okay. If you look like at the Virginia Happy Trails Running Clubs website, uh, you know, you, you can see like a lot of 'em on there. I, but I know a lot of running clubs do this also. Um, but yeah, I mean, like, they're, they're weird. They're wild. They're fun. I mean, like, they're one in particular that my running club puts on.

It's called a Potomac Heritage 50 K. Okay. It kind of just says like, screw you to all like the really type A type races because, uh, there's challenges throughout the race. 'cause you, you just like, you know, you're running, there's an aid station now. He'll take off time. The race director if you, uh. If you taste like a ch like a, a bunch of Pringles and guess the right flavors, or like you eat a certain item, you eat a raw, a raw onion, or you carry like, oh, you carry like an egg, like seven miles without dropping it when there's like obstacles.

You do have to like, kind of like crawl over and stuff like that. So like, and inhale deduct times for this. So like, I ki I find that refreshing, you know? Yeah. It, when you, you know, like we're, like you were saying earlier, like everyone gets so serious about stuff like that. Mm-hmm. And what I really love about this race is you do get that serious person out there trying to win and like, they're trying to get him to do the challenges.

You guys just laugh. You're like, he's taking this way too seriously. Like, maybe like the next time he does it, he'll, he'll get it, or where he or she will get it. But like, uh, yeah, it's just, it's kind of, it's kind of funny like that. I, I, I love those races. That is hilarious. I wanted to ask you about Pop-Tarts and what your favorite flavor of Pop-Tart is.

Strawberry or s or smores. The strawberry ones are just, I don't know if it's like childhood, like the nostalgia of the flavor D Delicious. But I love strawberry poptarts and I've actually used them to carb load now for, for road races. Um, I think it's funny to picture people like using them as fuel during a race, but I can see how it would be great because the sugar and the carbs and excellent flavors.

What's tomorrow? You can really get knocked your training run basically, um, tonight I'm spending the night at the Trailhead and then the race starts tomorrow. Okay. And then I'll be running until Sunday at 8:00 AM finished or not. I'll be running, you know, I, it ends at, at, uh, 8:00 AM on Sunday. Wow. And I get to watch Super Bowl.

Okay. Yay. Right. Yay. Or like, sleep through it. Um, well, I got a lot to write to, so like, that's like when I do get done with the race, like I usually like, you know, I, I really wanna write a good like, um, thing about this race. 'cause I, I love this event. I love this trail, so I really wanna write about it and just, you know, the relationship with my running club over the years and just the history of the race itself.

It's just really cool. I, that's one of the things I like about, like, doing races, just being able to recap it and talk about mm-hmm. Because there's some hilarious stuff out there too. Just like the random sleeping dude you find over in the bushes at like mile 30 or whatever. Are you alive, man? Yeah. I'm just getting discussions.

Disease man. Or just something funny like that. I mean, it's great. It's, it's great. That's why I go out there. Okay. Wait, which race is this weekend? This is a Wild Oak. It's, it's this weekend. Geez, John. I didn't realize that. For some reason in my head I was thinking you got, like, we messaged about it and I was thinking it was in March for some reason.

I don't know. I do a lot of races. I probably told you another one too, but like, uh, yeah, this is good because you, you got me right before it, like you basically the night before. So if IDNF, you can like just, we can, you know, you can just come back and be like, ah, so what happened, John? And you can be like, Joe Rogan.

Hey, what happened John? Hey, what, what happened there? Yeah. Oh, okay. I got beat up. Wow. Okay. So this will actually come out tomorrow. So we're is this Thursday? February 8th and so tomorrow. Wow. That's so cool. Yeah. So just know people will be listening to you talk about it can put for the cap's, you can put for like the captain's Will John died.

Will John die? That'll be the name of this episode. Is he gonna finish this finally? Finally. Is he gonna get together? Probably not. No. I'm just kidding. We'll see. Don't you say that. We'll see. I, well, I got a good, this is the, probably the best chance I've ever had to finish this race. I'm in really good shape.

Uh, I got really good gear. Uh, the only, the only thing that's preventing me is just a lot crazy from today. I gotta do a lot of stuff. Um, gotta take my daughter to dance and I gotta, um, my girlfriend's daughter, she needs some help too. I gotta take her somewhere. Then I'm gonna do yoga with my girlfriend and then, uh, I think we're grab dinner right before, this is like a weird race.

'cause they don't really want like spectators or like crew out there. So unfortunately she can't really be a part of it. And like, you wanna respect the rules of the race. I mean, it's just kind of like, you know, it's like a low key event, so you don't want to be like, oh, I'm gonna have my crew there. I have a hundred people or whatever.

Like, no, that's just not gonna, it's not gonna go over well, they're not gonna like that. So can't, can't have crew there. Yeah. So I'm not gonna see them till Sunday. So, um. But it's cool though. That's hard. Not Super Bowl. It's hard. Yeah, it's, but you know, we're, I, I think what will motivate me is just that there's a Super Bowl party after, so that's kind of cool.

That is cool. I wanted to read from their website because when you sent it to me, it was hilarious. And now I'm like gonna, there's a lot of high find on there. So just, you know, I'd like, it's so funny here, it's, I don't want people to see the, I like the website, but at the same time I'd be like, this is the wrong, I don't, I, I hope it doesn't like discourage people.

'cause it is a really cool event and they want people not just like elites or any, I'm not, I am not an elite runner, you know, I've done it a few times. It's a really cool event. I think they just like put it out there just 'cause, you know, they, um, they don't want people going out there, they're just gonna be like trying to like use it for social media or like Right.

You know, just purposes like above the race. I think that's why they act like that. But for, yeah, for anyone that just wants to enjoy it. Oh, these are so funny. You know, it's a really cool race. So I just. Yeah, there's some wild stuff out there. Like the part about, uh, if you like pain and you're hurt and, and getting hurt.

That, that section, I was like, wow, okay. This is a little, but it's funny. It's funny, right? It, it's, it's so funny. It's like if you have questions, don't come. If you need a crew, don't come. If you need toilet paper, don't come. If you expect to be pampered in any way, shape, or form, I just, it's so funny. I, I, I appreciated that though.

It didn't, you know, the, the a hundred miles scares me because I've never dabbled in further distance. Right? But like that, that kind of culture makes me chuckle and think like, yeah, this is a crazy community of crazy runners. And that's, I just love running because people are nuts. Yeah. But they're super cool though.

I mean, like, I know that sounds like really like hardcore and stuff, but like, that's why I fell in love with the community. They're just, I'm just like, these people are nuts and I love 'em. I just wanna be a part of this, you know? So you. It's a weird community that you, you don't, I, I can't, like I've been pretty much outcast my whole life and these people accept me.

So that's where I am. I mean, like, you know, I can't, there's no turning back down. This is my, this is my tribe. This is, you know, for better or worse, these are my people. So what will you, how will you sleep tonight? Do you have a tent? Do you have a van? So I'm just gonna sleep in my car tonight. My buddy has a van.

Okay. Maybe during like the race, I could just like sleep in his van. He's got like this awesome adventure van, but I'm not gonna like, be like, Ooh, hey man, can I sleep on your floor? Like, you know, like, um, maybe that will just happen. Like, dude, I, I'm not sleeping in the car again or like, yeah, you know, um, we'll see.

Maybe he'll, he'll be like, don't sleep in there. Just come here. 'cause he, he, he's got like a bed in there. He is got like a bath, he's got like a bathroom. He's got like everything. That's nice. So, um, I'm just gonna sleep in my car and yeah, I mean, that's how I've done this race in the past and, but I've got it set.

I'm pretty, or this is the most organized I've been going into this race too. I've got like different bags for every loop, like what I'm wearing and, uh, different packs, different shoes, stuff like that. So I'm, I'm, you know, there's not just a bunch of piles in my car, like, like in previous attempts. So this time I'm pretty organized and like digging, you know, I think it, I think it's gonna go a little better.

That's good. Are they 25 mile loops or how, how's the loops? It's a little over and it's like, TI wanna say it's like 27, 28. Okay. It's a lot of elevation too. I wanna say it's like 8,000 feet, around 8,000 feet, maybe more. Uh, um, it's a lot. It's a lot of climbing. But the cool thing with the race is like, you know, you don't have to like, and this is why I like t alters, I mean, you don't have to like, turn and burn on those.

Like, I, I just want finish, so I'm not gonna be like trying to run up mm-hmm. Mountains or anything. I'm just gonna be like going at a pace where, you know, it's comfortable for me and that I know I can use it to finish. I, I know I'm not gonna break any records. Mm-hmm. Like the, this guy, what, so. One of the, one of the, um, oh, I think the course record on this is under 24 hours.

John Kelly, the guy that finished the Barkley marathons, he ran it. And that, that's like an incredible time. Like, uh, the, I believe the cop's 48 hours and he, he just needed under 24. So like, it's, um, it's a lot. Jeez. That guy's awesome. And I'm not gonna do that, so I'm just gonna try to finish and Yeah. But I mean, the options out there if you wanna do that, which is really cool, but I'm not, yeah.

What do you wear? It's gonna be like spring weather, like it is here in Indiana today. I am assuming you guys usually get our weather. Well, it's, so that's what's tough. Um, our winter here has been wild. It's been, uh, yeah, we've had 15, like 15 degree days and then at one point, like a few weeks back, it got up to 80 degrees.

So I like extremes. Like, I like either 80 or 15, but like the stuff in the middle, like 35, 45, that stuff, yeah, I would, the way I dress, I put on a bunch of layers and I'll probably end up just taking stuff off, but, um, the mountains are weird up there because. Certain parts, it can get extremely cold. And then other parts, you know, it just gets really warm.

So I'm probably just gonna toggle stuff. I'll probably start every loop with long, I wear shorts a lot, like people joke with me. I wear shorts of like, you know, yeah. The coldest weather. Mm-hmm. But like, I'm probably gonna start with pants on and like, you know, like, um, longer, longer sleeve shirts and stuff like that.

And, uh, windbreaker just have a, a lot of options just so if, if I need to, I can switch stuff around. Yeah. Now I'm picturing like the snap breakaway pants. Yeah. That's what you basically need. Like, I mean, this ones, yeah, that's basically what you need, but yeah, that's, that's what I'm gonna, yeah. I'm just, anything I need to just like, take off real quick.

I'll just throw my pack and then I might need to put it back on later. But, um, yeah, the main thing is just to achieve comfort and. Just be able to spend some time on the trail all weekend and battle the battle the demons in my head. Yeah. Just tell those demons to shut up and stop talking. Get back in the woods.

You get back in the woods. Yeah. Yeah. You just stay over there and talk to the guy behind me. Leave me alone. Go back to that guy. He's really funny. Yeah. At least you know they're gonna be there, you know, you know they're gonna be there. You know they're gonna be there. Yeah. You just gotta tell 'em. Oh yeah, for sure.

Yeah. It's mental. It's it's mental, it's, this race is all mental. I mean, like, I've done, I've done it in much better shape than I am now. I've done, there's some races I, I know I should pass passed. It's like a, it's a test. No, but like, um, there's, there's been a lot of races that I should have been able to finish and the people tell me all the time, like, what, what we, you, you just mailed that one in?

I'm like, yeah. Just wasn't feeling it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. How, how much is the registration fee for this 100 mile race? So that's the thing with these fast races, they're free. I mean, like, um, this one's a free one. They'll ask, see, that's hard too, because I'm bringing them firewood and I'm bringing them some candy and, uh, some water.

So, I mean, this, these are, these are major purchases, man. I went to Walmart the other night. I mean, this is a lot. Yeah. Well, the reason I ask you that is because like, this is where my head goes. It's like, okay, if I paid like $300 to run this marathon. I'm gonna run this marathon. Yeah. I feel like the free part of it makes it a little trickier.

'cause you're like, well, you know, I'm not like $500 in the hole. I don't know. So that's the thing like that that No, I'm glad you bring that up. That's tough. So like, um, the thing is just like, for like Wild Oak or any of these fat ass races, you gotta respect the race and these people that are putting it on.

'cause I mean, this is their time, you know, like, yeah. And this is, you know, like Wild Duke is a really old race. And just the, the fact that they let you in, you can't take advantage of that. I mean, like, you don't wanna get a reputation for saying up for races and then just not finishing 'em, or just like, um, or just not respecting the race.

It's one thing if you have to drop for a specific reason or just, you know. Yeah. People understand. If you're not feeling out there, as long as you go out there and give it, you know, don't embarrass yourself. Give it a good try. But, um, right. It is interesting what you're saying. Also though, like, you know, when you sign up for like a race like Western states, which is like, you know, expensive and then the travel, like, I think that's what scares me, right?

I, I actually kinda like the Fastas races more, especially local ones because what dresses me out the most is the travel. Like for me, going to the west coast. Yeah. Like flying into, uh, what's it called, um, Reno, you know, driving to Olympic Valley and then like, you know, that's just a lot. Like you have, you have to have to, yeah, you have to take multiple, uh, airplanes, hotels, like that stuff is harder than the race for me.

Like I, you know, I, and then mm-hmm. You know, you either take your family, which a lot more or you know, you know, you want to take them, but then they're gonna be miserable. Like, we're in California, we're watching you run. Or you know, like it's just, I'd rather just do it like this and just do a race like this on the East coast.

I, I just think it's less stressful for me. And the funny thing is too, yeah, I was telling my friend this the other day, I feel like race is like wild oak that don't have, like, that don't have aid stations or just like. They have like minimal, like a water stop or something. I feel like there's less chance for me to dnf at a race like that than like Western states because there's eight stations, like all over the place in Western States.

So if you're not feeling it, you have the opportunity to quit on Wild. Look, you do not have the opportunity to quit. You're either walking, you're either self extracting and finding a way back, or you just finish just because you have to, you know, like, so there's that. Yeah. But the, the sad thing with Wild Oak is that if you, like, I I, I've had friends that it's like the last like 10 miles.

I'm not gonna out on this, but there's just sad story. It's like, you want to quit so bad, you know, even though like the last five, 10 miles, 'cause it's, it's sucks. You've been out there the whole time, you know, you've been out there the whole weekend. Like, if you see anybody out there on the course, you will beg them.

I mean, we're all ultra runners are basically professional quitters. Like, if you give them any, you know, any, uh, any out, they're gonna take it myself. I mean, just look at my history on ultra signup. I mean, like, if I, I know in the, I have to be careful in the last 10 miles of this race, if I get that far, that, um.

If I see somebody out there with a car, I be like, please, so just get me out here. I need to leave. So like I know that, I know it's a possibility. At any point you could quit an ultra. It's just rough. It's hard. Yeah. But I feel like, again, doing like one of these low key races, there's less of a chance for me to quit than that race that has an eight station every three miles, because that's just many opportunities.

I can be like, I'm outta here. I'm outta here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me a little bit more about sleeping in your car. And I ask this for selfish reasons because I'm doing a Ragnar in Northern Michigan at the end of this year in September. And um, it's a, it's a road one. So there wasn't a trail one when we could all go.

And the one of my biggest concerns is about sleep in the, in the van. So do you have any pro tips? I've never, I've never done, so I've done ragnar's before. I've never done the, um, I've never done the road ones. I've always done the trail ones just because like, uh, we have, we have some ones locally here, like the Richmond one, and, uh, we have one in West Virginia.

That's awesome. It's like, it's a fun like party, you know? I know a lot of people, there's some, like at the trail of community that's like, ah, Ragnar. Because like, I think one thing with like those races, like the um, the grassroots type of trail runner is like against like the more corporate races, but I mean, ragnars are fun.

Yeah. I mean, I, I have nothing bad to say about those races, but, um, the, that, that race that you're doing is a little bit different because you actually are driving places, right? Yeah. So like with this one, luckily like the um, the trail ragnars, you just park and you just have your car's kind of like an aid station.

You know, you have everything set up that way. But like, um, that's a different monster having to drive all over the place. The car's gonna be smelly and stuff like that. So like, and you have multiple people, so even if you keep yourself clean and your, your stuff clean, you know, not everyone's gonna do that.

So I would say that's gonna be the tougher thing. Like, I don't wanna say you wanna police your friends 'cause you might get them angry at you if you're like, Hey, you kind of, you know, why don't you use that wipe over there? Or you something you can't tell, you can't tell people that 'cause you're gonna get them angry every time.

But everyone I've heard that people have done like that. There's always like some kind of beef, like almost immediately, like something like that happens and then like people are mad, like the whole race. But, and you know what's funny is, oh, somebody I, okay, I'm just gonna say this. Like, somebody's gonna hear this and be like, oh, that's me.

But like, um, so when I did, both times I did the trail when it was the same thing too. You, we didn't even have to have a car to have that situation happen. Like there's always those two people that are just gonna, like, something's gonna happen and set 'em off and they're gonna be at odds. The rest of the, the rest of the nar.

Well, yeah, my be, so, my best friend roped me into it because she did one, she did the Bourbon Trail one in Kentucky last year, and she said that she got, she was in the shitty van, so she had the people that were, you know, butt heard about who knows what, or just kind of complaining the whole time. And the other van was like having a great time, you know, whatever.

And so this will be an interesting race because I don't know everybody, first of all, even though I'm the team captain and I'm kind of in recruiting, there's a few people that are like, yeah, hey, I'm gonna bring so and so, or like. You know, you got somebody stranger saying, Hey, I'd, I'd love to join. I'm like, cool.

Um, we're not trying to win, we're just trying to go for the experience, but it'll be hard. Harder because I can tell my best friend that she needs to clean herself up, but I can't tell somebody I've never met. Probably. But you know what though? I, I feel like those, those teams like of strangers are almost better because like then you have in, you know, inhibitions or whatever, like you're like, I I I'm not gonna tell that person that and that might help you.

You know that I feel That's right. I feel like for me that would be better than if you like, go into it with a team that everyone, if there's like a already any kind of dirty laundry out there anyway, not like physical, well, there's gonna be physical and you know, the other physically Yeah. You know, there's like that stuff lingering out.

Yeah. If it's out there. You're def when you're in, you know, close quarters, like constantly with those people, you're, you're gonna, you know, it's gonna come back out. And I feel like you're almost better having a team of people that don't know each other and then like, you know, if it happens to bubble up towards the end, whatever, you're, you're done with the race, you know?

Yeah. So just like, kind of like, you can space out the meltdowns and stuff like that. So just like, try to guys just keep it together till the end, then we can fight all we want. Yeah. And then by then, you know, you'll have the celebratory beer and everything, you know, everyone was like laughing about it, you know, even if they have some animosity like you that they're not gonna talk about, they'll, they'll keep it hidden, you know, towards the Yeah.

Victory party and all that. Yeah. Oh, funny. I'm looking forward to it. Um, no, those are, those are fun times. The other thing I wanted to ask you about, new topic is about Donald. The man. So your friend Donald, who you push, tell me all about him. How'd you, how do you know him? All that? I, I don't, so I don't push Donald on races.

That's Donald and his dad Michael. So like, they're, they're a team. I, yeah, I play soccer with Donald sometimes, and like, I'll push him on his, um, on his, uh, he's got a little, uh, bike. They'll, he'll ride on sometimes. He doesn't really like using that anymore too much. So he, he just really likes playing soccer.

And, uh, he's obsessed with the Marine Corps marathon. He loves it. Like, uh, he's an inspirational dude. Like, basically, um, I met him at a half marathon and I was so inspired by him and his dad. I was like, I have to meet this dude. So, like, um, yeah, I introduced myself and I started, uh, working with Ainsley's Angels.

Mm-hmm. And, you know, just, you know, pushing others, uh, you know, I basically, anybody that needs, like, you know, anyone that needs a fun time, that wants me to push 'em outta a race, I go for it. And I try to give 'em the best possible time. And yeah, I, I, I love that organization. We have a great time together.

Basically like Ainsley's Angels I think really helped me. Um. Just be a better person, you know? Uh, getting to meet Donald, just becoming his caregiver and, um, yeah, I, I mean, I, I owe them a lot. I, I feel like they've, um, on the journey of sobriety and you, I feel like you, you have to keep it reinventing yourself in ways.

And I think I, I feel like they really helped me just, you know, find out more about me and helping others and just, you know, being a better person. I really feel like, you know, everyone should push somebody on a race. I really feel that it would, uh, it would make a better world. I mean, I, I really enjoy working with Angel's.

Angels, yeah. I'm doing, in Indianapolis, we have the Indy Mini, which actually runs around the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, where the Indy 500 takes place. I've seen that. That looks awesome. Yeah. So my friend and I are, we're pushing for Angels, theses Angels this year. It'll be my first time doing that. I'm looking forward to, to it for all the reasons you said.

What, what do you do to give your writer your angel the best time? Like, what are some tips you would have? So, I, I. I try to run as, I try to run as fast as possible. I actually probably run faster. Well, I mean, it sometimes it's hard pushing, you know, going uphill and stuff like that. But like, um, you get a lot of force going down.

And also like, your riders gotta tell you if you're going, you know, they're either, you know, they'll tell you in some ways, if they're nonverbal, they might just like start to like, nod off and go to sleep. You don't, you don't let 'em do that. Yeah. You wanna let you, you wanna give 'em a good experience, get the crowd involved, you know, it's just, um, mm-hmm.

The cool thing, especially doing like a breed Corps race, there's so many people out there, like, uh, they're, they're gonna say, because like, you have your flag on the, on the, uh, chair. So like, people are gonna start screaming, you know, your team's name. Yeah. And, uh, you know, your writer's gonna see that also.

And then you can just like, you know, like, that's for you. That's for you. Yeah. You, you just like fire 'em up, like in sports and stuff like that. It's a, it is awesome. Like, every time I, I've done, I've, I've worked with these angels at a race, I just like, I'm, I feel so happy afterwards. Like, that was just like, that wasn't for myself.

That was to help somebody else though. Mm-hmm. Used have a much better feeling. 'cause like, again. Racing can be kind of selfish. You know, you're just, you're, you're doing it strictly for yourself, basically. But when you give somebody a good time like that, I mean, that's memories for, you know, for the rider, you know, just, you know, and also like everyone around too, because like, I mean, that's gonna impact their race.

Like, I've had people come up to me after like, Hey, I, I was getting my ass kicked out there, but when I saw you, you know, I picked it up. I was, I picked it up and I was so inspired like I was with Donald. So I feel like it helps everybody in the community. Just Ansley is the angels being out there. Yeah.

It's amazing. Yeah. What is, what is Donald's story? Is he, was he born the way that he is? He has cerebral palsy, so like he's, um, yeah, he, uh, became nonverbal, you know, throughout, uh, you know, as older he got. And, uh, yeah. So he just, um. He has minimal movement in, uh, his leg. So he is, but he's able to control his chair with his leg or with his foot.

Okay. And, uh, I mean, it's amazing. Like, basically like the fact that he can like, you know, play soccer and he, he's in, so he's in such good control of his chair with, you know, minimal movement. I mean, like, he's a super inspirational guy. He wa I mean like, and it flows through him too. Like, I was like such like, kind of like a slacker before I met him.

He'll motivate you. Like he wants, he wants to do a lot. He, he's go, he is going for it every day. And I, I love seeing it and it flows not only through me like hanging out with him, but like my daughter's the same way now too. Like with her sports, I really feel like she sees do doing that. And then also just like.

The more motivated he makes me, I make her. So I feel like, you know, there's people in life like that that are unfortunately the opposite too. There's people that are gonna be like, super negative and drag you down, but Donald is not one of those guys. He is one of those guys that's gonna pump you up. And I mean, like, as motivated as you think you are, he's gonna push you to like five other levels.

It's crazy. Like, I mean, like if you look at me before I met him, like the stuff like I do like on social media and stuff like that, I'm a different person. Like he, he, he will drive you to like, to really just excel in life. That's how I look at it. Wow. And so when you say caregiver, tell me what that means.

So, um, basically I, I, um, I come over and help Donald make sure he gets out and stuff like that. Hi. His, his parents are both very busy because, uh, Donald's got three brothers also. So like, uh, you know, wow. He, yeah, they're, they're very busy family. So, um. Donald and I, we go all over the place. We go to police stations.

He, Donald loves the police, he loves the military. That's one of the reasons why he likes Marine Corps Marathon. But um, yeah, we go, we go all over the place. We visit all the police stations. Donald likes to say thank you to the police, to firefighters, first responders. So, um, yeah, he loves the community. I mean, like, he's like the mayor of Manassas.

Like when people see him, they're just like, it's not, you know, like he's, uh, yeah, he's a super cool dude. That's so cool. He's a great person thing out with. And so since he's nonverbal, how, how does he communicate? So, this is interesting. So like, when I first met Donald, I had problems understanding what he was like, you know, because he, he made, he signs, but like, you know, okay, he's one of those people, like, even though he is not saying anything, and it might look like he's not saying anything, you know exactly what he's saying.

Like, there's time. It's funny too, 'cause like there's some people in life where you just, you have to talk to a lot. And I think I have problems now, like just kind of like, I don't like talking as much as I, like, I talk a lot, but like when dealing with Donald, sometimes we can just look at each other and we know exactly what we're saying.

It's kind of like refreshing not to talk in ways. Like there's somebody that you can just kind of like, you know, just like buy a look or something. It's, it's interesting, like I feel like. Talking to Donald, I've kind of like just gotten better at just like nonverbal communication. Also just kind of like, yeah.

You know, you don't have to say a lot just to get a meeting out, you know, you can just kind of, you know, buy a look, you know, like, it's funny, like, you know, like music on the radio or something, just like the looks that Donald will give me when something comes odd. It's just funny. Like, I'm like, oh, like he, he laughs too at my, you know, uh, reactions to like, what he's, he thinks about a certain song or something.

Oh, he's a, he's a refreshing person to like, have communication with. 'cause it's, it's so different, you know, like, um mm-hmm. Then when I have to talk to somebody regular, I'm just like, ah, this, this is, this is so traditional. Uh, yeah. Yeah. That is really, that is really special. It's like we're telepath. It's like we're telepathic.

It's awesome. Gosh, John, that's, that's really incredible that you saw him. At a race and pursue that relationship. That's really cool. Think it's like kind of weird at first, but then at the same time it's not at all because he's such a cool dude. Yeah. I feel like, you know, like I'd be like regretful if I didn't, you know, and, and I, in this case, I definitely would've because look what happened, you know, like he used inspired me probably more than, I mean, like, I know there's a lot of cool, like, inspirational, like, um, influencers and stuff on like social media, but like sure, that guy is probably, I mean, like he, there's nobody like him out there.

Nobody. Well, it makes me think too, just about, you know, when you encounter people like that, usually in a race, if I, you know, if I'm running by a chair, I'll, I'll cheer, right? Hey, go team Donald, or whatever. Mm-hmm. But like, you know, I think at, at least for me, I'm guilty of not knowing how to go further, like feeling uncomfortable about.

How do I engage with, you know, somebody that I, you know, I'm not somebody who's around people like Donald very often, right. So it's like, how do you get past that? And like, just, I think, I think a weird thing with Donald also is that like, if Donald would've been like in the back of the pack or the middle of the pack, I might not have, like, even like, and this is bad on my part, like I probably, like no matter like how fast you are, you still, still the engage with people and stuff like that.

Yeah. And just, you know, be cool. But like, I think selfishly the reason I was so, like, you know, in awe of Donald is 'cause like, I think they, I believe at this race I was at, they got like under an hour and 30 minutes at this half marathon, which is like super fast. So like, um, yeah. And I, I believe they got like third overall or something.

Yeah. So like, I was just like so blown away. But in Donald's case, them doing that, it caught my eye, you know, like, and I, you know, right. I mean, even if you're not like as fast as Donald, there's, you know, there's other ways that's, I try to achieve that even though I'm not as fast as them. I, I definitely try to, this is a funny thing about Donald.

I like, he will talk some trash, like, so like, he knows he's gonna beat me. Usually when I'm pushing somebody, I'll come close to him, not super close, but he's a lot faster than I'm him and his dad, but. I'll, I'll try, I'll try to catch him and like, I'll talk some trash and he'll also like, this is the time, Donald.

This is the time. And he's like, mm-hmm. Nah, he's so funny. But like, and then after, oh my gosh, like after a race, he'll come up and start just like, he'll, he'll just come like, he's, he's, he's he'll, he'll. So he, he talks a lot of trash. Like he'll come right after me after the race, but so cool. I, I kind of set it up too, 'cause I, I like to see him do that.

I like to see him get all happy like that. Mm-hmm. But, um, I, what I try to do, like even if I'm not, you know, even though I'm not as fast as 'em, I still try to find some way just to kind of like, I don't wanna say like market, but kind of just like get like my rider really happy and just to kind of get people engaged to kind of wanna mm-hmm.

To do that, you know, just to give, you know, get some love and like, you know. You know, hopefully, like, you know, maybe they'll spot him on like social media or something later and like, like a lot other stuff or just whatever. Yeah. Um, yeah, I always try to build up whoever I'm with, I'm pushing and to try to beat Donald.

That's, I just, that all that says so much about you, John, and the kind of human being that you are, just so you know. Um, yeah, that's fine. I mean, like, it's fun. I, I, I feel like mo a lot of people, you know, I'm hoping that more people wanna do Los Angeles. I really do because it's, it's, it's an awesome organization and I feel that, you know, like.

If people hear like my experience or who anyone else has a pod experience mm-hmm. Just like, you know, Donald in general, you know, like there's just so many fun stories out there and it's a great time. Yeah. Well people who listen to this podcast have heard me talk about it I think for like the last five episodes.

So I'm wearing people down now that I'm going do it good. I'm like, they hear about it enough, you know, they'll join me. So anybody who's local listening and is interested just let me know 'cause I'm sure they're still looking for more teams for, for the race in May. Okay. The next thing I wanted to ask you about John, is shoes. So you reviewed Shoes for Believe in the Run. How did you get started doing that and what does that entail? So I run a lot and, uh, an issue I had like for a long time I would just burn through shoes. So I, um, when I worked in like, uh, so I've worked in run Specialty before. And, uh, I did that just mainly to get discounts and stuff like that.

Yeah. And also I've done that. Yeah. I mean, and, but the also one cool thing, like with having a kid is that, um, they're really flexible about like your shifts and stuff like that. So I basically worked it so I could like, just work. My daughter was in school and stuff like that, that mm-hmm. And they were, I mean, they were really cool.

'cause like, I, I do a lot of races over the weekends. They wouldn't interfere with that. I mean, they were, it's almost like the perfect job if you're just like, you know, you have a lot of stuff going on with your kids and stuff like that. I really enjoyed doing that. I just couldn't make it work after a while.

And also, you know, I'm, I'm working with Donald now too, so like. I love working with Donald. And like, you know, I, I, I, I actually have, I've bounced back and forth, like, at, at one point I did, you know, stop working with Donald to try to do that again. It just, it didn't work out. Like that's, that's just definitely my calling right now.

But, um, yeah, at, at some point, I mean, I'm gonna have to do like more of like a full-time job, like, as my daughter grows up. But, um, yeah, I always loved working in, uh, run specialty and believe in the run basically. Um, I approached, uh, Robbie about it, you know, the main editor there and I, I've met him before, like on races or just like over the years.

We just always talked about shoes. 'cause I've, I've always been obsessed with shoes and just, you know, everything about the running scene. Mm-hmm. And like, I would just like shoot a messages over the years about certain shoes. The Hoka ten nine. Are you, are you familiar with that one? The really wacky one?

So I haven't tried those one. Look, the Hoka, well this is kind of like a really weird niche shoe. It's that one with a huge heel. Have you ever seen that? It almost looks like a, like a ski. Well, so like, yeah. I think that was the first shoot Robbie and I like, kind of talked about, but I would always bounce stuff off of him and uh, basically like, yeah, he, he, at one point he was just like, yeah, come, you know, review shoes.

And I, it's, it's just worked out really well because I run so much, I can help them with reviews and I can crank out the miles and, you know, and not have to worry about, you know, a lot of like, the stuff that comes with, uh, you know, purchasing shoes and stuff like that. Uhhuh, I just, yeah, I mean, the amount of miles I do a year, I just, I have to have something like that going and I'm, it kind of, it kind of stinks too, and this is why I believe it runs so awesome because like, I'm not an elite runner, but I do a lot of races and I do a lot of miles and I do a lot of hard stuff and, you know, I'm, I'm not a super type A person and I think that's kind of the vibe of believing the run.

Like, you know, it's just people for people that love to run you regardless of your pace. Mm-hmm. I mean, there's some fast people in it, but for the most part it's just, you know, it's a group of people that really love running and writing about the running and yeah, just the whole culture running. It's awesome.

I love them. So give us some of your favorite shoes. What do you like to run in? Oh boy. So I'm kind of weird with shoes. I'm like this, everything's so specialized now, especially in the trail scene because like, you got your mount, you got your mountain racing shoes, like, you know, you can run, you can go rock hopping on, you know, you've got like the more runnable fast trail shoes.

For me, it's, it's basically situational. And that's how I do kinda like my reviews. Like if I'm gonna be like, um, reviewing like a really, you know, tough, you know, mountain shoe, I'll, I'll use it for like mass. Nothing here in Virginia. Um. I really like the Brooks Caldera. I just reviewed that one. I, I used it, you know, in the mountains.

Uh, recently, uh, let's see, I used it on a 41 mile run I did with Happy Trails. Wow. Cool. Shoe. Reasonably priced. I really like the Caldera. That's one right now. Um, I'm actually reviewing two shoes while I'm running Wild Oak. So like, I'm, I was gonna ask gonna on each, so that, but that's, that's one thing that works for Believing the Run.

And because I run so much, I can get like, a lot of miles on these shoes. Right. And get a good, you know, a good understanding of 'em. And then, so, you know, you know, the next couple days be able to write about it after, while I'm doing like, the race reports. And I mean, like, I know that's like a lot of work.

Like I tell people like, what I do like that. 'cause I mean, just doing like mm-hmm. A hundred mile in itself is a lot, but then you write a race report on it. 'cause I like to write my race reports and have, I try to connect like, a lot of local races, like, um, you know, the history of the races and stuff like that.

And talk about like, you know, a lot of the people in my club that are at the race and you know mm-hmm. Uh, we post on the Virginia Happy Trails Running Clubs website. So I, there's that part of it. And then I, you know, I review the shoes that I wore on the race. So that's other writing. And then, uh, yeah, just anything else associated with, so I mean, I, I work a lot.

I mean, I, I put a lot into running. Yeah. I'm completely obsessed with it. And, um, yeah, I do my best. I mean, I, I tell people like, yeah, I work extremely hard. Like people are just like, I don't think people understand that about me, that, you know, like, I probably look like I don't, but um, yeah, I mean, I go all in with running.

I try to write a lot about it and then, you know. I balance that, all that out with hanging out with my daughter and my girlfriend. Yeah. So like, um, it's a lot of work. Yeah. I, I am really bad at writing race, uh, recaps and I'm not bad in that. I do it sometimes, not for every race, but especially I do it a lot for myself too, like, because I have a really bad memory.

And so I'll go back sometimes and read my RA race recap, like before I do that same race again, and I'll be like, oh yeah. Like, I totally forgot about those experiences or what ha you know, so a lot of it is, is selfish, but I just actually getting the words out there, it just, it takes a lot of time and effort.

I think for me, I had to get to a point where like I was like comfortable just with my thoughts out there. Yeah. And then like people like just approach me. Like, you, you run a lot, you know, you do a lot of these races, you know, you should write about the experience. 'cause it would, you know, it would ultimately help out the community and the race.

You know, talking about the race and getting the information out there. 'cause if somebody wants to do the race, you're gonna have a recap and they can read that. Yeah. Or you know, two reviews or something like that. Mm-hmm. I mean, you might as well put those experiences, you know, and have the situations out there and stuff like that.

That stuff's all good. But I think more for me, just, you know, I like sorting out the stuff in my head about it and it helps me just remember other things and where I was at the time and just mm-hmm. Yeah. I just, um, all around, I just feel like it's good to get those thoughts out there. And now I'm pa you know, I said paper, but like, uh, you know, I mean like just a keyboard.

Yeah, yeah. Whatever, whatever we're using now. Whatever. Yeah. That's, yeah. I, I, I, for me, I know it's like a lot of work to do all that stuff, but I just, yeah. I just think it really helps me be me. Yeah, I like that. So do you have, outside of Instagram, you have a blog? So I, um, I might start blogging a little bit, but like, I've been writing so much about like, you know, um, with Ambassadorships, you know, or, you know, shoe reviews, race reports.

I've never really had time to do that. I would like to. Okay. I've got like a bunch of stuff I've written, I haven't like, found a home for yet. I was just talking to my friend Eric about it. Uh, we wrote something really funny, uh, the other day, not the other day, but a while ago. And just like, I, I just, I kind of, um, I need to start blogging, like on my website.

My website's kind of garbage right now. I gotta fix that. I'm not like, I just have one out there just to basically has like, you know, um, my various pod you know, podcast appearances and stuff like that. Um, race reports or gear reviews, it's more just for like. Just like having it all out there. Like if you wanna, you know, see something that I've done here it is.

But, um, yeah, I need to, I need to work. It looks like something right out in the nineties that's, uh, it's kind of crazy, whatever, but I, I gotta work on that. Yeah, it's, it's out there. It's, it's there. Just so you know, I feel like that's just going with the vibe of a lot of, like the trail running websites. I see like the race websites, a lot of those are like, straight out of the nineties, so you're just keeping with that vibe, I think.

What is your website, John? So it's just my, um, basically my Instagram handle. Just breezy trailhead.com. Okay. It's, um, the main page is like, you've gotta look on a cell phone. If you look on a computer, it looks, it looks pretty bad, but, um, yeah, I'm not like, so I, I, yeah. I'm not a computer guy. I, I, I did, I helped make websites like, um, a long time ago and Yeah.

Not, not that good at. Yeah, I, I, I, I run and, uh, yeah. Well, you know what? You have a website. There's probably so many people out there saying, oh, I should do that, or I wish I had a website. And, you know, putting it off, putting it off. And then you just, you have one, so you should give yourself credit for that and stop bashing it.

'cause I'm sure it's fine. Yeah. I mean, like, I felt like I had to just because like, um, I've got, so I've been writing so much stuff. I mean, it's just, um, I wanted just to have it out there if somebody was still, you know. Yeah. Where it'll be looking at stuff I've done. I just like, I have to have it all. You know, somewhere centralized just because it's, it, it started getting messy.

I try to keep, I, I started forgetting stuff that I've written and it, it hasn't even been that long that I've been putting stuff out there just like a couple years. But I, you know, if you're doing a lot of races and stuff like that, I mean, it just, it ends up piling up, so, you know. Yeah. It's a good way to just kind of keep it organized.

Yeah. That's when it gets hard for me to do recaps is when I do races that are close together because it takes me a while sometimes to like get through my thoughts and then if I have a race like right afterwards, then I'm. Yeah. How do you get through like 30 hours of running in a race? That would be, you know, the races you do John, are just so different in that it's like a really long period of time to recap versus like, oh my, you know, hour, two hour half marathon.

So one thing that I, one thing I kind of would like to do, I would like to try doing standup or something. Just be, I mean, I'm, I'm not that funny, but like, I would've like, 'cause it's, it helps you on a race because like, basically like that's how you get through it. Like, not only just for like, you and the people are around you just, uh, like when you pop into an aid station, you, you, that, that's your open mic right there.

Like, you're just like, yeah, you, as soon as they see you, you just go at, you just go at it. But like, um, I feel like a lot, this is why I like the trail community also. Everyone's like a comedian and you, we might be weird to other people, but I think like if you get that crowd of people that you're like tuned in with that are at the race, they get the humor.

Like, you know, it's a lot like self-deprecating stuff and just like, you know, just a lot of like really like. Out there stuff, you know, just mm-hmm. I don't know, like mm-hmm. Everything from like the weird stuff you find on the trail, like we find weird stuff on the trail. I'm not gonna get into it. Um, but you know, you can, ima you can imagine the stuff you find out.

There's some weirdos that go out on the trail, so you can kind of like mm-hmm. There's a lot, there's a lot of comedy out on the trails. Just random stuff you find out there. Yeah. There's some scary stuff. Like, I, I posted one time on Facebook, I was like, because I, I found a bag one day when I was just doing a long run, a random bag, and I was too scared to open it.

Who knew? There could have been like, stacks of money in there, but I was just scared to open it. Yeah. I was like, what's the weirdest stuff you found out there? This dude, this dude in new, this dude that was running in New Mexico doing a trans gun. He posted a picture of a gun. He was like, I found this a gun.

So like he, he felt the gun and then like. But then like these other people, I didn't even think about this. They were posting like sex toys and stuff like that. I was just like, oh my gosh. And like, like some of the people, like the objects they found, they couldn't even post what it was. They had to like message me directly.

I was like, yeah, like, but, and it's funny, like one of the people, it's at this trail, so I, I mean like going back to how like remote this place, I, I think people go out there and just do some weird stuff 'cause they know they can do it. 'cause there's not that many people out there. Wild. But it's just weird how like, all that inter sex with just being like a trail runner, it's just like, it's like a weird forgotten world that like, you know, you don't see that many people.

But then when you do see like the reminisce of when they were there, you're like, wow, these people came out here and did some wild stuff and just took off like normal. These took out. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. John, in Mexico we found a sex toy on the beach. It was, it was an ice cream cone and it was, yeah. Oh my God.

Yeah. I could only, so that gets my brain like going Yeah. About like all the crazy stuff. I'm sure you've found, if you ever wanna, well, if you ever wanna like, post something funny on social media every, like six months or a year, like just throw that there. Like what's the wildest thing you've ever seen on a run?

The, the, the pic? Yeah. The pictures and things. People will tell you. It's always like a needle mover. 'cause like people always wanna talk about that. Yeah. I found this assault rifle or like the crazy stuff. Whatever the case is. Yeah. I found this thing I can't even talk about on, on social media without getting, I mean, like, there's some things if you just even like try to hint at your band.

Like that's how, that's how Facebook is now. So like. Right. I have friends that are just like, I'm not even gonna try to put even a hint of this out there. So that makes me laugh like that. It just makes me laugh. It's awesome. So, oh my gosh. Now I'm trying to think of what the craziest thing I found on a run is.

I have a friend that posts, she finds money all the time, like coins, like even like dollar bills. And I was like, I have yet to find any money. Never when I run. Mm-hmm. Ever. Never. I don't know. So not even, not even a co, not even a coin, actually. You know what I did right? I, I regret, I, I regret this. I found the, um, like, you know, the mo money they use in movies, like the fake Money.

Oh, sure. I guess, yeah. Well, I, I found one of those. I, and I just left it because I thought it was like, I didn't want to interrupt it or anything, but like, uh, I should have taken a picture of, I should have taken a picture of it just as a joke or just like mess around with it. Yeah. Like, but yeah, I just, I found stuff like that before, but never real money.

Never real money. Yeah. Yeah. I'm either, I don't know what I gotta do. I don't know because, so I don't know, run around where there's cash flying or, I just don't understand how it gets there anyway. But you, you know what, also, I've never found a dead body before. Luckily, I have found like, yeah, yeah. I, I found credit cards.

I had to call the police after around one time. 'cause like I found somebody's credit cards and stuff. I think they just dropped it when they were on a si like a, or riding a cycle or something. Yeah. But, um, I've never found anything like too extreme. I'm surprised though. Yeah. The amount I run, like I would think I'd see more sketchier stuff.

Yeah. And I, you know that, that's a funny thing though, if runners have seen, you've seen something sketchy if you're runner because you're like running at weird times. But yeah, I've been pretty lucky. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. The dead body thing is, is wild. I, I have my, actually my cousin, it's not running related, but he found, he works for like the water system, whatever.

And so he was open doing a routine check of like a manhole cover and he found, found a dead body. It's crazy. Oh no. It's gonna be a stand by me situation. At some point, my friends and I are gonna be on, you know, some trail or something and that's when it happens. And then like, yeah. It's just, yeah. Yeah, it's standby me all, all over again.

Yeah. Oh man. Well, I wanna ask you the end of the podcast questions if you're ready for those. Absolutely. Let's do this. Um, let's do this. So the first question is, what is your favorite either mantra or song or both? So this is, this is funny. And this goes, this goes back to being like a, a dad. My daughter is a big Olivia Rodrigo fan, and, uh, she's been listening to her new song.

Can't Catch Me Now. So that's, uh, that, that's my mantra this week for the while there. Yeah. Can't catch me now. That's good. I like that. And it's a song. It's not, it's not too much. It's not a happy song though. Oh, I don't know if I've heard it. Maybe it's not a happy song though. It it's, it's pretty depressing.

It, it's like, she's like a pop star, but it's kind of like more like folksy, it, it kind of sounds like an actual song. Like, you know, there there's talk like mountains and stuff in it. Like not a, you know, you, you gotta listen to song. It's a i'll to it. It's, it's a little sad, but, um, yeah, I, that's probably like the, the worst song to listen to, like Before The Wild Oak because it's like kind of down and you're like, ah, I'm already thinking about the DNF.

Awesome. This is great. Thanks Jillian. Awesome. Oh, thank you. Thank you for putting this in my head. Cool. But yeah, yeah. Great. Better, for better, for worse. That's my mantra right now. And do you have other, what is your song that gets you like super amped up then, like that you should be listening to? Ooh, wow.

Um, that is a great question. I like. Anything. Eighties, pretty much anything. Eighties metal, Metallica. Okay. Just pretty much anything. Eighties. Yeah. Or, um, so when I'm on the trail with friends, we reference that stuff a lot, but also, um, like eighties action movies, like, I'll talk to friends a lot about, I mean, just talking about like eighties action, eighties, like early nineties action movies, like point break, like, pretty much like stuff like that.

Uh, predator, um, like just, just awesome like kickass movies like that. Yeah. Sudden Death with Jean Claude Bend Dam. Great movie. Great sports movie. Uh, yeah, just stuff like that, like, um. I feel like you're pretty much invincible. Like bullets can bounce off you from watching those movies so much testosterone, so much, you know?

Yeah. It's just all there. Yeah. You just, uh, yeah. If you're going, if you're, if you need to dig deep, just think about predator. Like look at the cast of Predator, Carl Weathers, I mean the poor RI, you know, rest in peace, Carl. I mean, like, uh, yeah, that guy, Apollo Creed. I mean, Jesus, that guy was, you know, happy Gilmore, you know, just like those type of actors.

Yeah. It's awesome, awesome people. So like, yeah, I just think about that and, uh, yeah, just, um, that's my amp up stuff, you know? Um, heavy metal and, uh, just crazy eighties, nineties action movies to total recall. Another good one, Robocop. I was trying, I'm trying to think. Okay. My husband was watching one on the plane with Mel Gibson.

It started with a LI think Mel Gibson. It was definitely in the eighties. Ah, I don't remember the name of it. My husband was watching it. Mm-hmm. It's LA Oh, oh, wait, what? I'm gonna think of it actually. Lethal Weapon. Lethal Weapon, yes. Yep. Is a lethal weapon. That's the one. Yeah. Amazing. All of 'em are great.

All of 'em are excellent movies. Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. That's so funny. Okay, and so now, uh, I obviously we know what your next finish line is, hopefully. Yes. Tomorrow slash what? Sunday? You start tomorrow? Yeah. Um, at some point point else, it's at some point you'll finish. So what is, what's the next like milestone or what are some of the dream races that are out there for you that you wanna do?

So, there's one in particular that I really want to do. It's a 52 day race, the Tree Chimo, 3,100 mile race, uh, in New York. I would love to do that one. I, there's no way I could do that this year just because, you know, the stuff I got going on with my daughter, I would've to really plan that out. But I wanted to do a lot of like gnarly races to kind of, you know.

To get on their radar. I'm doing a 24 hour race that they put on in June. June, and I'm gonna try to really push it this year. 'cause I, I mean, I don't win races often, but. And I'm not the type A type of person, but there's certain ones I go for. So like, you know, so something, something happened when I ran the 24 hour track race that I really enjoyed it and I wanna push it even further.

And I'm hoping that maybe that, you know, that'll help me get on the radar to do, you know, the 52 days. 'cause I recover. Well, yeah, I, I mean like the way that this race works, you, um, you don't do it continuously. So like you, you have to stop running by like when it starts getting like really laid out, I think it's like midnight and then you start again at 6:00 AM or so, something like that.

But I recover well, so, I mean, I think I could actually do it. Yeah. And I, I, if you look at like my miles, like on Es Strava and stuff like that, I, I mean, I, I don't run two marathons a day, but I do put in a lot. And, uh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I really think that I could do it and have fun and just like, I think it would be a real fun experience just talking to people out there that run that much.

And also just for myself, just mentally, you know, I like the idea of just kind of transcending and just like seeing Yeah, if I can go to certain places. 'cause that's how, that's why I run. It's not because I want to be like, you know, I wanna push myself to blah, blah, blah. No. Mm-hmm. I like to just get in my head and think about stuff.

So if you give me a situation where I can just kind of do that for an extended period of time and it, it's a, I believe it's like, it's a really short loop too, I wanna say. It's like, not even a mile or it's like something like that, the big one. Wow. So, yeah, like, I wanna see how I react to just, you know, continuously just, you know, just pounding a way, just doing that, what, what pops in my head and yeah, I think it'd be amazing.

Wow, that's wild. Was the 24 hour track race just on a track? Like I picture, like you just run around a track. Well, yeah, and I, as good as I did, I'm kind of like regretful about it because, and I, I'm not tooting my own horn on this or anything, but, um, when I got to the point I knew I was gonna win it, I kind of like, just kind of walked the rest of it just to make sure that I got to a point where nobody could like just, you know, overtake me.

Yeah. But, um, I wish that there, I wish more people were out there pushing it because like, I went to 106 miles, but I could've easily went over that. But at this, uh, 24 hour race that's coming up mm-hmm. I, if you look at the results, like people I believe went over like, like one 40. 140 miles in 24 hours.

Wow. So like, yeah, I, I don't know if I can do that, but I'd like to see like, you know, yeah, I'd like to run with those people and just like observe them and see like what makes them tick and stuff like that. 'cause I mean, you know, again, I feel like no matter where you are in your running, your running career or whatever, I feel like there's always room to grow.

And like, the cool thing with running too, is like, I didn't think I was gonna ever like win an ultra, you know, at some point, you know, I'm 44 at some point, like, you know, that might happen. And then you might get down another rabbit hole. There's so many different rabbit holes of running. You don't necessarily need to do ultras.

You can do like, you know, whatever makes you happy. And then. Something like this may happen and you go, you find yourself down another rabbit hole. It's just a, it's a cool sport that mm-hmm. You'll know where you're gonna end up and that you go in with these, like, you might go unwind to qualify for the Boston Marathon, but then you end up like, you know, running a bunch of ultras or something.

Mm-hmm. It's just many. You might run the Barclay Marathons. I mean, like the funniest thing with me with running, I wanted just to qualify for Boston and I getting obsessed with like Barkley and I end up doing the Fall classic five times. I haven't done the Big Barkley, but like, you know, that's, that's a weird trajectory like, you know.

Mm-hmm. If you think you're just gonna run some like sleek road races and you end up, you know, climbing mountains covered in briars, you know, know where this world's gonna take you. Yeah. Climbing a prison wall, that's what you do in that race, I mean, yeah. Oh wow. That's just what happens in life. Sometimes you climb prison walls and go under sewers.

Yeah. So, okay. I'm gonna add a bonus question. So this, this weekend, if you do complete the Wild Oak Trail race, what will you do to celebrate? Win, lose or draw. I'm just gonna watch the Super Bowl with my family and um, and tell them I'm sorry profusely for being such a weirdo that has to do these things. Fair enough, fair enough. Yeah. All right. Well that's all you can do. You can just be for forgiveness. Yeah. Thank you so much for doing this with me, John. It was nice to get to know you outside of Instagram and good luck this weekend. I, I thank you. Can, can people track you? So, um, it's gonna be on Twitter, uh, basically.

Okay. Hook up Wild Oak Trail 100. It's on Twitter. Yeah. It's funny too, um, the race director, he, uh. He, he, I mean, he'll put out people DNF so you'll see, you'll see if I can put a loop or DNF or, you know, something weird happens out there, you know, I, I get lost, you know, on loop, on Loop four. Yeah. After I've been running the same loop, you know, forever when you get tired out there, you know, stuff happens.

You know, I plan on sleeping a little bit when I can between loops, but you get tired out there and you think, you know, the trail. I mean, I've, I've ran on the trail so many times. It, it's almost embarrassing, like, because like when you do a race like this, you're, you know, you're well trained on the trail and stuff like that, but you can still get lost if you get that tired.

Mm-hmm. So that could happen. You might see that. You might like, you know, John, we can't find John. We think, we think you went to another state. He's in Kentucky now. He's in Kentucky. There was something random. Yeah. But yeah, that I, you can, you can follow it on Twitter. It's a good follow too. It's a great race.

Yeah. Well, based on, again, their, their sense of humor on the website, I think I would enjoy their, their Twitter account as well. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's just, it's a fun follow because, you know, like, again, um. Yeah, we're gonna be out there all weekend, so like, if you need, so if you get bored or something, you're like, what are these jackasses doing?

Oh, John. Yeah. Oh, he's, he's, he's somehow Luke three, let's see what happens. Yeah. Someone, oh, someone found him sleeping in a bush. There might be a picture of that on there. Who knows? Yeah. Yeah. Whos, hopefully not. But hopefully Well, I'll be cheering for you, John. Good luck. Have fun. Oh, thank you. And, uh, thank you for letting me out.

Absolutely. Get out here and bent out all my, uh, fears and, uh, my demons. 'cause now they're all gone. Now I can, I have no excuse. I have to finish this race. You will, you will. Oh, man. Well, thank you to everybody who's also listened to this and have a great weekend. Happy running. Thanks y'all.

Ally Brettnacher