Episode 12: Aum Gandhi - Mount Everest and Mental Health

Episodes

Jun 23

Listener note: This episode includes discussion of depression, anxiety and body dysmorphia.

Aum Gandhi couldn't run a quarter mile in 2018. Five years later he finished a 70K ultramarathon from Everest Base Camp, running for his mental health and for kids in need.

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About this episode

Aum Gandhi is an ultrarunner from Los Angeles and a business partner in Run Tri Bike, and I first met him on a slightly awkward Zoom call. In May 2023 he ran the Everest ultramarathon, a 70K race from Everest Base Camp at 17,500 feet down to Namche Bazaar, finishing in 18 hours and 7 minutes after a 12-day trek just to reach the start line.

We start with Everest: altitude training in Flagstaff, a five-degree start on the Khumbu Glacier, yak trains, a near fall and the Sherpa pacer who kept him on course. Then we go back to how running started for Aum in April 2018 as an outlet for depression and anxiety, why he says the bravest thing he's ever done is say "help me," and why he always runs for the kids, from Los Angeles to Kathmandu.

In this episode, we discuss

How meeting two Nepalese runners at the Moab 240 led Aum to the Everest ultramarathon
Training alone at altitude in Flagstaff with guidance from his longtime coach Heather Catchpole
Trekking 12 days from Lukla to Everest Base Camp just to reach the start line
Running 70K from Base Camp to Namche Bazaar in 18 hours and 7 minutes, with no supplemental oxygen allowed
The longest 15 minutes of the trip: waiting in five-degree cold on the Khumbu Glacier without his puffy jacket
Yak trains, the "mountainside only" rule and watching a yak fall off the trail
Nearly tripping off a narrow trail and the Sherpa pacer who grabbed him
Finishing during the 70th anniversary of the first Everest summit and a nightclub scene in Namche
Starting with a painful quarter mile in April 2018 after years of struggling with weight
Depression, anxiety, body dysmorphia and pushing back on "boys don't cry"
Why asking for help is the bravest thing Aum has done
Daily habits for mental health: stillness, sunrise walks, voice memos and telling yourself "I got your back"
Leaving his job at the FAA to become a partner in Run Tri Bike
Advice for road marathoners curious about a trail 50K, plus his favorite race fuel
Fundraising for Redstone Family Center in Los Angeles and Kids of Kathmandu, and his mantra for students in Nepal

Chapters

Intro
Why Aum signed up for the Everest ultramarathon
Altitude training in Flagstaff
Trekking to Base Camp and the 70K race
Close calls, yak trains and Sherpa pacers
Freezing at the start on the Khumbu Glacier
It started with a quarter mile
Mental health and asking for help
Daily habits for mental well-being
Run Tri Bike and taking a leap of faith
Advice for trying a trail ultra
Running for the kids
Music, mantras and what's next

Where to find Aum

Mentioned in this episode

Races: Everest Marathon (70K ultra), Moab 240, Tahoe Rim Trail 100, Oregon 200, CNO Indianapolis Monumental Marathon
Organizations and charities: Run Tri Bike, Kids of Kathmandu, Redstone Family Center, FAA
Other: Heather Catchpole, Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay, Khumbu Glacier, Namche Bazaar, Average Athlete

Previous guests mentioned

Mary Pittman (Episode 10)

Related episodes

Frequently asked

What is the Everest ultramarathon like?

Aum Gandhi says runners first trek about 12 days from Lukla to Everest Base Camp to acclimatize, then race 70K from Base Camp at 17,500 feet to Namche Bazaar within 24 hours. He finished in 18 hours and 7 minutes in May 2023.

How did Aum Gandhi start running?

Aum Gandhi started running in April 2018 as a mental outlet, and his first quarter mile was painful and nauseating. He stayed consistent and went on to run 100-mile and 200-mile races.

What charities does Aum Gandhi run for?

Aum Gandhi raises money for Redstone Family Center in Los Angeles, which supports families affected by trauma, and for Kids of Kathmandu, which builds schools in Nepal. He raised over $2,000 for Kids of Kathmandu around his Everest race.

Support this show

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically, so it may contain errors.

Welcome to finish lines and Milestones with Ali, Brett knocker, incredible stories and tales of Triumph with everyday people achieving their goals and fitness. This podcast brought to you by athlete, bouquets celebrate, Finish Line's and Milestones are the people that you love by visiting athlete bouquets.com. Hello. This is a Libra knocker. We are up to episode 12 of The Finish Line's and Milestones podcast. If you're taking this on a run today, I hope you have great weather and I hope it's a good run. This week's episode features. Ohm Gandhi. Oh man, I met through Instagram. Actually we kind of met first on Zoom, when I was introduced to his business partner and they own a company called run Tri bike.

You can Them at run, try mag ma g.com and we had a first resume call which I told him that I felt so awkward during, but we since have become friends on Instagram and after he returned from the Mount Everest ultramarathon not just a marathon. The ultra marathon, yes, at Mount Everest. You heard correctly? I told him. He had to come on and tell me about that. So the first part of the episode is all about Mount Everest. And that experience, we then backtracking talk about how own got In the first place and spoiler alert, it is, for mental health reasons. He also offers some wonderful words of wisdom around that topic.

And then we talk about why he runs which is for the kids. So whether that's for the kids closer to his home in LA, or if it's for the kids of Katmandu, like it was for the Mount Everest raced. He's always thinking about those in need, especially underprivileged children, which is amazing and a Will cause to run for. So I really hope you enjoy this super inspiring conversation with ohm. And this is getting me closer to signing up for my first either trailer Ultra. We're getting there. So enjoy. Welcome to finish lines and Milestones on. I'm so happy to have you here. I'm so happy to be here, you know, we talked about it for a little bit and I'm so stoked that you got the podcast off the ground and just honored to be a guest on the show.

Q. I am glad that you're here to be on the show because I have read your recap of a recent. Just this little race you did in Nepal and you're lucky to be here my goodness. I I need to start there actually and then will backtrack and hear more about your story but I have so many questions for you about Everest. I'm so excited to dive right into it and I'm an open book and ready to answer anything about it. I've had come, how did you decide to run that first of all? All. So I did this. I did this race in Moab last fall.

Okay. The Moab 240 which is a whole nother thing. Yep. And just casual 240. And there were two Nepalese Runners doing that race. They were the first to nothing's workers to do it. And after the race, I was just chatting with one of them and he was like, yeah, you should go do the Everest marathon in Nepal, and it was like something about this feels. Right. You know, because I want him to go to Nepal since I was a little kid, I've always thought about adventuring in the Himalayas and hmm and then I go on their website and sure enough they have an ultra and I'm like oh I'm one of those Ultra Runner people.

Maybe I should do this and just kind of just committed to it without knowing what I was getting into. Yeah, and how much does it cost to register for an ultra marathon in Everest? Like what is the what do you pay to register? For something like this, it was about three thousand dollars, okay? And that's not including airfare as well. But man, it was worth every penny as so amazing. And, you know, a theme, I'm sure we'll hit on many times today, is that you do this for the kids, you run for the kids. I will definitely be including a link to your fundraiser for the kids of Katmandu because I think that's really cool.

But okay. So you go, how do How do you even prepare for something like that? Like, altitude things like, I mean, you've done some running certainly in in mountains, but I mean, how do you, how do you prepare yourself for something like that? Oh man. I mean, for something like that. I think there was just a lot of ticking past experience and just a lot of trial and error and just putting the pieces together. So, the reason I signed up for Evers Marathon was because it hits Some points for me that were uncomfortable for me like altitude dealing with the cold, I just chose something.

That was something that scared me and was something that was big because I knew there was going to be a lot of growth from that experience and I, you know, so I thought like man, the best way to get adjusted to altitude as somebody who's lived at sea level, my whole life. It's to go train in one of the highest cities in the US which, you know, I spent two months training in Flagstaff, okay? I started out there when I started out there, they were still having kind of a prolonged winter which, you know for most people would be like, yeah. And where's this spring?

But for me it was like, this is perfect for my training. I'm going to take advantage of the cold and the wind and I spend a lot of time working on the mountains, over there, just training an altitude, just living high and training high and sometimes going down to Phoenix and training low. And I don't know how much it actually helped to prepare for something like Being above 14,000. Yeah, the psychological thing of like, oh yeah, this is something I can definitely handle or something. I can put myself up against definitely helped a lot. Yeah. So did you have a coach there in? Flagstaff are like a team that you were with?

No, just me for this training cycle. Just went out there and just took my past experience and decided to just you know I had the mentorship of Heather catchpole who was my coach for a very Long time when I got into Ultras and we have like this mentor-mentee relationship and she was able to throw suggestions of like, yeah, you should do like mile intervals and, you know, go out and do Hills and I just took all those things and Incorporated the pieces into my training and just was able to put something together that, you know, I cross the finish line. So, seemingly worked, right? You cross the finish line.

So over the course of how many days did this race? Is take place. So it was, you know, it's interesting, it's one of the most unique things I've ever done because I wouldn't call it. I wouldn't call just the race itself, like the race because we have to track 12 days from lukla to Everest Base Camp, and you have to do it very slowly because you have to acclimatize. Yeah, my gosh, right. So I feel like getting to the start line, which normally you just kind of wake up, get out of bed and No, eat your whatever you eat, like your peanut butter, would ya toast toast?

And you go to the start line tapered up and ready but for this race nobody had that choice, you know? So I feel like waking up at base camp at 2:30 in the morning. After you've been tracking for 11 days and you're already cold tired and sleep deprived and it's like five degrees Fahrenheit is not ideal start line conditions. So I feel like that was half the battle the actual race. It's Self. There was a marathon and a 70k I did the 70k we had 24 hours to get to namche from Everest to. So from Everest Base Camp, which is at 17,500 feet to namche Bazaar, which is the sherpa Capital at 11,000 feet, 70 kilometers about 40.

I guess that's like 43 44 miles, okay? I did it in 18 hours and 7 minutes. Oh my gosh. I'm like, literally, like speechless. And the crazy thing is, I was not, I was far from the fastest person. I was like the third to last person which, you know, I think the goal whole thing was just, like, get this thing done the first, The Nepalese Runners, I have to give them a shout. I mean, I have to give them a shout, you know, oh my gosh, they and I don't know if this is recording your podcast forever. But what I'm doing right now is, I'm waving the nipple useful, right?

I know, I haven't done video yet. I will maybe at some point. I for the people who are listening. Cannot see. Awesome. But the Nepalese Runners. So there were 19 of us and there were eight Nepalese runners, okay? First guy, finished in eight and a half hours. So this. So I pictured, this being like you sleep, you like, you know, run some, then you like getting a tent, like try to sleep as long as you can and like keep going. So this that's not how it worked. You just kind of know what's even crazier. It was a continuous. Race. And you had 24 hours nonstop, like maximum to get to namche started.

Am, and I finished at 11:07. They had checkpoints like every five to six miles with water, the occasional like juice or snack, but you have to carry pretty much like all your foods and every time you had like 15 pounds on your back and how many pounds of that was Snickers bars. And just a few You be a little more than a few. Oh my gosh. So for most well for pretty much every everybody else just getting to base, campus is a huge thing. I had a co-worker once she went and tracked to base camp, and she did a lunch and learn for our company and she put together a presentation on what that entailed.

And to me, I would my mind was just like blown for all that she went through just to get to the base camp. Umph and so you did that, and then did an ultramarathon and in 18, some our I mean that's it's just insane insane to me. So God and then, what were your sleeping conditions? Like when you got to the Finish? Like, did you have to sleep in like a tent or a Hut? Or did you actually have a hotel bed? Thankfully, we had a lodge and namche Bazaar but there wasn't. It was so funny because of what you do, after an Ultra After race, it's very hard to sleep because you're like I got there at 11:00, I tried to eat and I couldn't eat.

And then I went the lodge like the lodge bed and my heart still like racing on the other hand, what made this race really special? Was that it was the 70th anniversary of Sir Edmund, Hillary and Tenzing Tenzing Sherpas first climb of Mount Everest. Well, little did I know that May 29th when we did the race was also ever stay. So all of not, Today, which is usually very quiet was have, like, you would not guess that they would have a big nightclub scene up there but they do so. Oh dear. I'm like sitting, it's 3 a.m. I'm like in my bed and the entire walls of my like the lodger just vibrating with like dump and you can hear like the DJ that's hilarious playing songs and you know it was cool because when we got into town we're like for us and then we're like now it's for the Jubilee but you know, it was cool because there were people and bystanders watching us come in.

So Very Lively even at 11:00 we had saying that's what the Finish Line would be like that that nut that point, you know. Yeah, right. Because I mean, I feel like in that type of scenario, there's if it wouldn't have had all the Fanfare, you just kind of quietly finish this. Like absolutely incredible achievement of a lifetime. I mean, so he said about what was it? Like 19 started. And you were one of nine that finished correct. So is actually 19. People that started okay, 17 finished but of them kind but of the 11 International Runners on nine of us finished. Okay, there are two dnfs.

One of them was actually just a drop down to the marathon which, you know, given what we went through. I respect that decision a lot. You know, you're not doing well. Yeah, I mean, will cause you're, you know, I've watched some documentaries. I watched, I forget what the one that I watched most recently was called was about this guy who like, did all that. The top Peaks, just, you know, hiking and summiting all these Peaks and you're just like, yeah, people die doing this all the time. Like very, very, very common. So, have in you, I read your Recaps on Instagram and you said that you nearly tripped and fell like and you just casual like yeah you know I almost died but then there's a guy who's there and he just you know, pulled me back and then we just kept going.

It's like, but I guess I don't know. Like talk about how that feels. Hit it off in the moment, you just rub running on adrenaline. It's, you know, I've done a few races were like, I've had those like nerd, close calls and stuff like a jungle Ultra and Peru. And, but like, I for this one, like I was just so disoriented because you're just continuing to like climb and your body is trying to put this limiter on you because you just don't have the oxygen. So every 10-15 seconds, you're just gasping for air. Yeah, but, you know, by the time I got up there, like, on the singletrack, I was disoriented.

So the whole backstory of this whole thing is, like, we're supposed to go on, like a much lower route, but there's like, an unexpected roadblock because they're doing construction, what? And so, yeah, I mean, there were so many unprecedented obstacles on this race that you just can't even as an organizer. You can't like you can only you can't really predict those because it's just, the Himalayas are just like the wild west of the Of Asia, you know, but like you know, we had to like climb on this like, very narrow like Trail like going up and it was you know, I don't know if you had seen some of the truck stuff I posted but when we were walking, the reverse Direction going up, we saw Shepherds coming down and we saw Yak fall off the mountain on that same Trail.

I almost tripped but it was all those experiences are just kind of like sir. Real. And in the moment you're just so calm and focused. And then you don't like, it's just all happens in a split second. Like I fall in my poles. I've hit my rib like, I'm like, gasping for air. Then I'm like, about to trip. And this guy just like, the, my Sherpa who is with me, my Sherpa Pacer because they had changed the route so much. We needed a navigator navigation. He just grabs him by the shoulder. He's like, slowly slowly and I'm like, I'm good. Let's go thanks. Thank you, yeah, yeah.

You just don't know how to react in the moment. I just couldn't think of anything else but keep moving, you know. Yeah, yeah, nine side though. It's just it's just I don't know how to feel about it. It's just you just something to talk about, you know. Yeah, I mean she's and watching a yak fault that had to be really surreal to because that's it was really that's pretty intense to see and thank God. It wasn't a you know, human person fall, you know, watching somebody fall off. The mountain when you're about to do, what you're going to do is that would also be really tough, but even still man.

That's nuts. So, were you allowed to do, you carry any Oxygen with you or you're not allowed to do that or no oxygen at all during the race? Although, the medical staff always kept it in case of emergency drainage because things like, you know, pulmonary edema cerebral edema. It just people getting really bad acute, Mountain sickness and needing oxygen. I mean, they tested our saturation. Ocean every single day and there were a couple days or my levels were so low. It was starting to look really bad but we weren't allowed to carry oxygen. Yeah although we had jokes in our group about like how we should have gone to like eBay or something and gone like one of those oxygen cans.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, a little. Yeah, exactly. I do come in handy. So, were you by what you did? You have your Sherpa with you at all times. Or were you ever alone? So, I had my Sherpa with me after the 33 km Mark at Pang, poce, which is where the marathon people got to keep going down and the ultra people. There are like these green flag saying, no, you're climbing up and that's when we got onto like this very remote route and the organizer had told us like 45 days before and like a group huddle that like yeah we had to change the course again because, you know, it's the Himalayas and things keep changing non-stop weather's like always change.

Aging. And so, they opted to give us like Sherpa Pacers to help us out at that point and just make navigation easier, probably give them a piece of mind to as organizers. No, because there are so few of us, thank there were moments where I was alone but thankfully those moments were few and far between because I teamed up with this amazing 68 year old man from Japan. Talk to me. Who has cash must have like three decades of experience he'd even done 100 km race before this race like just weeks before, but I teamed up with them learned a lot from him, I was going back and forth with this guy named Cho Chang from China, my friend Alexander from the Netherlands, you know, was a little bit, we were back and forth for a little bit, but just all these cool people, we all work together.

I mean, I don't think I would have finished the race though, without my my pacer. No, Raj. I mean, that guy was incredible guitar, he wasn't a runner because he was winded by the end. It's like a dude. Guess what? You get to do today and he's like what go? You know, go on the hike for a chow. It's some guy you've never met. Yeah, have fun. Yeah man. So I'm on the board for a marathon here in Indianapolis called the CNO. Monumental Marathon anyway, we had a mishap last Year, where there's like this point one part of the race that gets you, you know, the point one for the half marathon and we have a whole team of people that know, the course inside and out, and their only job is to make sure people turn the right way and they didn't anyway.

I think of that cause I'm like, good Lord. You you ran through the Himalayas and got to where you're going without any wrong turns. Like I can only picture the conditions and, you know, as somebody who's run, you know, the full marathons were, I feel like Really get in that sense of delirium. Like, if they weren't perfectly marked, I would be completely lost. So that just gives me so much appreciation for how you navigated. And then the other thing I was going to say was going to be that for the start line conditions. Now, if I'm ever at a start line and I'm cold, I'm going to think of you.

I'm going to think. Okay, this is not that bad because I Not just spend Twelve Days trekking to fit, you know, it's just what a cool just what a, that's just absolutely incredible achievement. I can't have a really funny story about that. So I am terrible with the cold. I'm not gonna lie, like my hand circulation is horrible. They, you know, so I don't know how familiar you are with like base camp but maybe like not at all. Have you heard of the kumu? Khumbu? Glacier know, so the khumbu glacier is like, this really big formation. All its ice but it's also like rock and all of base camp sits on the khumbu glacier and the khumbu glacier you have to climb over it when you're doing the Expedition, and that is actually known as the hardest part of the expedition to Mount Everest.

So they start the race at the khumbu glacier. So you get out of your tent and you like walk over to this. Glacier the sun's coming out at 4:45 and everything looks blue tinted because of the snow, like, it's the apocalypse and there's only a few of us. And like, I have my puffy jacket on and like, you know, some leggings than like my shorts and, you know, my gloves and everything. But my hands are already starting to like, get cold because it's like five degrees outside and like, there's a wind chill, making it feel like - yeah. And then I decide I see like my friend from the Netherlands who I shouldn't have followed his know, I shouldn't have followed suit because he's from the Netherlands, I'm from California.

I mean come on like 15 minutes before the race. I Okay, I'm going to take off my puffy now and give it to the sherpa. So you can take it down and I'm like in my race shirt with my sleeves and Son sleeves and everything and my beanie and I'm like longest 15 minutes of my life. Yes, bad part. Yeah, I'm like standing there like jumping up and down and you can tell who the people from Nepal, are because they're coming in, like shorts. The, you can tell the people from the sherpa Clan. Yeah, yeah. Because they're like, this is normal. This is pretty warm day here.

But that was by far the longest 15 minutes of the of the entire Journey for me, it was like forget the training, forget the top, a track is just those 15 minutes. He minutes of just absolute torture, just called Blow the Whistle ready. Can you not do 57? Yeah. And you know there's like a handful of you and certainly it's beautiful but it's probably dark. It's dark at that point or? No. It's a sun, the sun starting to come on to come out very interesting. The sun comes up, starts to rise at like 4:45 in the hole. Okay. All right. Um, but there's only a handful of us.

So when we go off, there's no like gunfire or like there's no, like there's not thousands of people, there's like handful was there just like the Marshall, just blows his whistle and we just go off and, you know, we're on this like Rocky ice fall and so everybody's kind of like power hiking, the organizer had told us like, you know, don't try to go out and run this because you will like, literally blow your lungs up because it's so high. Yeah. And We see these. Like you can't even compare to The Nepalese Runners, like they're already blasting off. Like they're a minute on another planet, but what was cool was we saw our Sherpas taking videos of us cheering us on.

We saw other people at base camp who were doing Expeditions and the season was ending and they were leaving just like cheering as onto. That's nice which is another thing. Quick thing is that the only two people who get to stay at base camp or people do in this race and people were doing the Expedition. So, Even though they were two miserable nights at base camp, it was still definitely an honor to Camp there. Yeah, I'm sure yes. What a different experience than like peak season I'm sure. Yeah. It was like the end of so it's like the end of peak season because April March April and May is peak season so it was May 29.

So it was like people were like leaving at that point after finishing their Summits, it was mostly Sherpas early. Being I would imagine the people who are doing the Expedition were like not walking all the way down after summiting the mountain. Yeah. I running down like these crazy people. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that I was reading your Recaps and that I wanted to know more about was the yak trains. So what is a yak trained in tail? Is it just is it like a train of yaks coming down? Yes, it's exactly what it sounds like we started Cognac trains because it was just a very catchy name.

We're just, like, Yak train. You know. Yeah, you can you can it started to become like a pavlovian thing where like you hear like the bells and you hear you can hear like there thudding. And you can hear the whistling of the shepherd and you're like, oh my God, not this again. Another one we're like past them. Like, do you get to stay on like closer to the mountain? Or are you like Like on the outside of these? Yeah, I mean Sophie terrifying so that was a rule that the Sherpas told us because I had to avoid some Yak trains like that during the Trek and like during the race.

Yeah. Thankfully not on like crazy single track but like one of the rules they told us was like Mountainside only. Which means like when you're passing through you got to stay on the side of the mountain because there's a good chance that an aggressive. Yeah. Could like knock you off the mountain. Like we heard stories from other trackers. One, this one tracker from the UK was telling me about like, how Yak pretty much like knocked him off the side of like the trail. And, you know, when we were tracking up, there was thankfully, the shepherd was with them, grabbing him by the Rope, but there was a very aggressive Yak, who could have knocked us off the side, but how you avoid them, is it just depends on the situation.

Thankfully, there was a lot of wide spaces, but coming from base camp to To back to gorak Shep, which was it was all like Rocky and hard to navigate and like, very loose Rock and just not ideal running conditions. We saw for, Yak trains to the point where, like, when Alex saw the fourth one, he was like are you kidding me? Like and we just had to like maneuver around them like on the rocks and it was just kind of dangerous but it was also like if we stay right there. Like, for just gonna get like right in the middle of like these, Yak trains and their horns and I will give credit to some of the shepherd's though.

They were very cognizant of the fact that we were doing the Race probably because they see it every year. Yeah, some of them did their best to like move their Yaks to the side which is very amazing of the. Yeah, we like much, appreciate it, gosh, and what percentage of the race would you say was? It was light out, that's a good question. So the Set at 8:00. So for thankfully for fifteen hours, I have sunlight know the sunset at 7:00. So 14 hours a day like and then for four hours, I was kind of going through tonight, which isn't terrible. Thankfully we were blessed with good weather in the night but there was like a very heavy fog.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The thing as we were coming down the side of the mountain going to like do like Coming down from 14,000 up to like 13,000 it just, you could hardly see the green flags, it was just me and ciao. Dang, the guy from China. And we were just trying to figure out where everything was based on like having done. The course in reverse and it was just very interesting. Like, thankfully, we were both able to fill in the gaps, in our knowledge. We did a little bit of like wandering, like, where's the flag? And we see like, oh, there's a Buddhist stupa that we remember, you know?

Oh yeah. Oh, there's like lights and Chewy, like, oh, there's like lights from the town down there, you know? Yeah. So it was very, very interesting. Those markers were not reflective. The green flag marketers? It's like you think maybe that would be helpful if you would think. Hopefully they do that next year. Yeah, that sounds like even more terrifying. I mean, wow, congratulations, thank you so much. I mean, that's just insane. And what I think is and I could talk to you in Asking more questions about Everest, but as you've alluded to in the few times you've mentioned, you've done so many other things. But what I think and what I certainly want people to take away from this is that you haven't been running for that long, which to me, is even more mind-blowing, because it's like, oh, you assume that you've been doing this forever and, you know, that's how you became an ultra Runner, that's not the case.

So now that we've covered at least a bit of Everest. I would love to hear and I've heard a little bit of it. Already. But I would love for people to hear the story about how you ended up getting into running in the first place. Yeah, the biggest thing that I think the line that always sticks with me, which is how, you know, obviously, how I met Jason and did the whole run Tri bike business was, I wrote an article called it started with the quarter of a mile. And that is how my run Journey started, April of 2018. You know, I just had a lot of things going on in my life and just was looking for.

Like, for the first time was looking kind of for like, a mental Outlet. Than like a physical one and I just decided to put the shoes on and, you know, put some workout clothes on and just go for a run and that quarter of a mile was one of the most painful nauseating things I ever did. But little did I know it planted a seed and kind of just change my life and, you know, for me like growing up, I was in an athletic person, you know, I was like, last kid on the track type of person like I played Outdoors, like the other kids and everything, but But I struggle with obesity, most of my life up until when I was 18.

You know I got diagnosed with like prediabetes runs in the family and like you know lost 90 pounds over two and a half years you know and then adulting sort of happened and other life, stresses happened, sort of gain that weight back and, you know, balloon back up to 220 pounds and then, you know, running came and just sort of like Started focusing on health, starting from mental and working my way towards physical. And yeah, just want to say like I couldn't even run a quarter of a mile five years ago and I just started. I just stayed consistent and just stayed at it and just kept choosing Big Dreams and I think if there's any messaging from that it's just like, you know, it just I think it applies to every aspect of life, whether you're trying to write a book or trying to start a podcast or trying to launch a business.

You It's just one step at a time like this nonlinear, whether it's a sideways, step backward, step or forward. Step it'll you'll get where you want to go. Yeah, it's so well said so good because it's true. You got to start somewhere and I feel like some people I've talked to you about being on this podcast like why would you want me on their like I'm not I don't I'm like. Are you kidding me? The guy. I interviewed last week is run 75 marathons and he didn't think he was impressive. You're like, amazing how or is it? I'm not that fast or it's just these things.

We tell ourselves and it's just interesting but you had to your points like you got to start somewhere whether it's with a half, a mile or Whatever it might be. I think it's really interesting that for you, it was about the mental well-being. And I saw a post from you recently that June is actually men's mental health month and I don't know, maybe at least this is my perception that most guys. I don't know, don't really take care of their mental health. I guess most humans probably don't but I just think of like emotions and things like that as being more, you know. Women are comfortable talking about that more.

So perhaps but could you talk about how you knew that it was a mental thing? Because I think that's Self-awareness is pretty amazing, really that knew you needed something for your mental well-being. You know, I struggle with depression and anxiety from a very young age when I was younger. Like I just felt sad sometimes and you just don't have the emotional maturity to understand why you feel. So sad mean obviously there were things that I grew up with and everybody's got their traumas and things of that nature. But, you know, I just didn't know why. My motions ebbed and flowed and, you know, just struggled really bad with my mental health and didn't know where to turn to just kind of grew up in an environment that promoted like that, toxic masculinity, you know, of like you know, Boys, Don't Cry.

Men don't cry and you know, it's just it's just not a healthy way to live. And also just like things like sensitivity as a male was bad and it's like, it's not, you know, like, you know, at some point we just got to Take these gender roles and just throw them in the garbage, you know, because like just it's it's just so binding to everyone. I'm not just talking about men, I'm talking about like, women and the stuff that they go through to about, like, always being in some kind of role, you know, instead of belonging to themselves and but like, I do agree that men need to talk about it more.

There's certain things that I kind of like talked about on my Channel that I go through. Ooh, like there's depression and anxiety talking about like, how it's okay to like lean on others and how it's okay, like speak out about that stuff. And one of the other things I talked about a lot is like, body dysmorphia. I mean, I go through it and go through that stuff too. Because you know, we, you know, we see those like the ideal body type for men and women, like there is no ideal body type, you know. Yeah. Like I just think that people need To be more open about it but I think a lot of that is just trying to be that voice and showing people that like it doesn't make you any less of an incredible human being.

If you put yourself out there and ask for help and I think we'll probably dive into this a little bit but one of the way I answered that question that I sent back to you on the email. Yeah, the bravest thing I've ever done is not doing 200 mile races. Or jungle tour, Everest Ultra the bravest thing I've ever done is say the words, help me, you know, that's that's what weirdest things to do from, that's so powerful. It's so true. Why? You know, and thank goodness that. Now I feel like compared to when I even when I was growing up, you know, it was so taboo for anybody to talk about anything personal especially in the workplace.

And now I feel like thank goodness. That that is shifted thankfully. I mean, one of the nice things I guess about social media is that now people are welcoming some of that sharing, right? And that authenticity, that is so important to being able to be who you are versus being who others expect you to be. But asking for help is something that I will still struggle with certainly. So hearing you say that resonates with me certainly and kudos to you for also saying that that's the bravest thing you done because You almost died. We found Everest like holy crap. Yeah. So outside of running, what else what else helps your mental well-being?

You know for me just I think a good balance and everything like I practiced illness every day for five minutes. Having a routine helps practicing having time for yourself. Whether it's like a half an hour, whether it's 20 minutes if you can, just make a little time for yourself. Help whether it's like Stillness or you know I know people would take baths, you know that bombs and I know people who read a good book, people who eat a favorite meal, just making a little time for yourself. O going out on a moor. I do a stroll every day. You know, like I wake up and put the first things I do is go for a sunrise walk, even if it's five minutes or ten minutes, but just making time for yourself and just being intentional.

I think the biggest thing is Is being intentional. Like, if you were thinking something write it down like one of the things I do, when I go out on runs is if I'm having thoughts or something. I do voice recordings that I keep to myself, that's smart. And sometimes I'll go on monologues and stuff and I'll play them back and sometimes I'll play them back like a few, a few months after no might be like, what was that talking about or, and then it might, it might also be like, man, this is powerful, you know? And the biggest thing I think that helps my mental well-being is something as simple.

Like I'll tell you a simple exercise, I do every single day, try to do every single day and that is look in the mirror and tell yourself, I got your back. Because I think one of the things that we all struggle with is self-love and stuff and just being able to remind yourself that you matter and like you've got your own back, the inner coach versus the inner critic and beating yourself up. It's such a huge difference maker. Yeah, right. I read somewhere. It was something. I was I think as a meme or something where it's like, if would you hang out with somebody? If they say, Said all the things that you think about yourself, right?

Like you know, you the inner critic. It's like you wouldn't want somebody to treat your friend that way. So why do you allow yourself? Yeah. Criticize you in that way and I thought that was really good because it's like, yeah, yeah. Why why are you doing this? Is the person that really should matter. The very most and the one you should take care of the most. It's just so interesting. I like that hard. I like that whole like I've heard that line somewhere else before like words. Hey, you can't treat your. You can't treat them that way like you can't react that way. Yeah. But applied to yourself like hey, you can't treat yourself that way.

Yeah, he's actually like I've said that to my I said that to my friends. I think I've said that to a friend before who's like self beating himself up I'm like, hey you can't talk to my friend that way. Yeah, exactly. No I love that, right? It's like, hey yeah, now you got to use it to yours. I said, don't talk about me, like you're having a conversation with yourself. The other thing I wanted to make sure we talked about Out to, because it's kind of how we met. Which, first of all, thank you for sharing all that about. Mental health. We could have an entire episode just about that piece.

It's so hard to wrap you into an hour because there's just so much. I want to know. But I also want to talk about kind of how we met which was through run, Try by. And I actually didn't know that's how you and Jason met when you wrote a blog post about how you got started running. So, could you tell us that story? And then I want to know a little bit more about run, Tri bike. Yeah, well, starting with how Jason and I met. I wrote an article about like my I wrote my first how it all started like probably a month after Jason launched the business publicly.

Just I don't, I still don't know to this day Jason and I joke about it this whole time. He's like, how did you find me and Jason's joke is always marketing works and I wrote that how it all started about like a week before my first 100 mile race. And, you know, Jason and I got to talk King. And I was still at my corporate job with the federal government work for the FAA. And that's interesting. You know, I tried to like I was trying to launch like a writing business which, you know, ultimately didn't take off the way I wanted it to, which is okay, you know, I gave it a best shot but I was looking for writing opportunities and I became a contributing writer for run, Tri bike in October of 2021 and then, you know, reached out to Jason And in March and he was like man, the social media thinks sucks.

I need somebody to take this off. Yeah. And I'm like I could give it a shot and that, you know we just agreed on some many things. Then in June almost it, I think like, 10 days from now is a year since Jason invited me to be a business partner in the business a decision. I might not have had taken if not for my experiences in Peru. Yeah, run Tri bike. Like is just we just wanted to give a space like, a players Tribune but for the Everyday Athlete just people to share their stories and their voices. Like we call it the we call it two things, we call it in during my cues and life stories using Endurance Sports as a conduit and we also call it the extraordinary stories of the ordinary athlete.

Yeah. Like day to day people, I mean you know, Jason and I are not big represented groups and During Sports ourselves, he's Puerto Rican, I'm Indian, his girlfriend, who's a shadow partner in the business has a hidden disability, you know, and you know, we want to give voices to just everyday people and that was kind of the premise of the business and it just grew into like helping people Market to and also just, you know, grew into like the digital magazine as well. And just, we really love what we we do and we just love our community and more so like a post I made a few days ago we love giving people a safe space to like just have this like community and like have me and Jason.

These people like talk to about certain things and be able to share their stories and feel proud of those stories like almost like a you know, magnet on the refrigerator picture under refrigerator is the kind of feeling we want people to get when they see their story posted on our website. Oh, I love that so much. You have to me. I swore I introduced you to her, but I don't think I did because I asked her if I did. And she said, no, some like shit. I forgot her name is Mary. Pittman. She's actually just one of my most recent episodes, but she has a brand called average athlete, same premise, and she's also more into the ultra Trail world.

Like you are for me being this traditional road racer. I've got to hide that a dip. My toes in the water somewhere with the ultra maybe Ultra or at least Trail. I don't know. So we could talk about that, but did you want to go Trails? You don't go by. No. See that's that's what that's why I'm nervous about it because I love my road races. But did you leave your corporate job to join Jason? Is that when you left your job or was it before that? I left my corporate job and like, April of last year, okay? A month before I became a social media guy and just decided to like go.

I didn't know exactly where the direction was headed. I knew that I had a purpose would run Tri bike and just decided to, like, take a leap of faith on. And, you know, sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith and choose things that scare you and I mean to whoever is like worried or scared about starting their business or something. Like just remember, you can always make more money. There's so many ways to make money. You can always like figure things out that way, but it's not very often you find like, opportunities like this to like That aligned with your purpose in the things you want to do and sometimes you just gotta give it a shot and you know if you fail it's not terminal.

You just try again. Yeah yeah amen. Just go out there and you got to start somewhere so many good themes here. So me about themes and don't be afraid to be a beginner. You know, don't be afraid to make mistakes when Jason and I did our furry first fireside chat. I think we have like nobody watching. I mean that's fun. Mom. Thanks for tuning in. Yeah, exactly. But like you said earlier in this episode we all got to start somewhere. Yeah. And just got to make mistakes and learn and I think we, I think one of the things that I told the kids of Kathmandu, like that the school, which we, I know we'll get into is I give them permission to make mistakes, you know, like it's not for me to give them permission, but I think somebody has to let remind them that making mistakes.

Is a part of Being Human. Yeah, in the part of growth. And if you do hard things, you will make mistakes. Yeah. On a, on a more lighthearted note. I talk to my five-year-old about making mistakes and, and we were talking about Taylor Swift actually, because my sister just gone to a concert. So I showed her the videos and she was just mesmerized. And she's like, just Taylor Swift, make mistakes. And I was like, yeah. Yeah, she does. And she's like, well, like what kind of mistake I'm like, oh god. What have I gotten into? But anyway, the theme was like, yes. Everybody makes mistakes even Taylor Swift, but yeah.

Have to, you have to be okay with that. And I think for me to is starting this and starting athlete, bouquets is just like well, also, nobody cares like everyone is paying attention to themselves. So, do what makes you happy? Because back to our self love talk. It's like you're the most important one. And I've got a funny cartoon for that, too. I mean, like that. I'll send to you afterwards. The like, people will say stuff, no matter what you do, you know, see my life. Yeah. There's always going to be somebody that, you know, is having In some sort of trouble with themselves, who's going to try to drag you down, right?

And I think it, finally, once you realize that, that's the reason that they're trying to drag you down as it's them, not you? I think it just yeah, I helps shift that perspective so that you can feel more confident in yourself. I want to hear. Well, there's two things that I really want to make sure we cover before we run out of time. And one is, you know, we talked about starting somewhere. And so what, what advice would you give somebody? Who Maybe he's already running, but may like me, who's kind of intrigued by the trail and Ultra seen, but thanks. Holy crap. Like, how could I ever run more than a marathon?

Like, what advice would you give people like that? If you can do a marathon on the road, you can do a trail 50k for sure. It's just a totally different vibe. Like you're walking up our hiking more just nature eating good foods, communities amazing. I would apply. What I'm about to say to you. Anything and that is just just give it a shot. You know. If it doesn't work out then so be it. But I can promise you that if you get out and do a trail race you're not going to walk away saying this was a terrible experience, no matter what the result is like you will have a good time out there for sure so just just like with anything.

Just give it a shot and have a good time. What is your favorite food? But you've eaten during a race that can be doesn't have to be just the trail. But like generally speaking, there's a couple, but I think anything wrapped in a tortilla like a burrito so amazing. You know, I've had some really good pizza during a race, which is crazy, to, a lot of people outside looking in. But, you know, oh, at the bottom of one of my Hundred Mile races at Mile 50, you know? We I'd just come down from very hot stretch one guy gave me, you know, who had promised me?

A Dairy, Queen Shake actually gave me a Dairy Queen shake and it just brought me back to life. It was amazing, that's so nice. Yeah, I love a good milkshake after a run but like a middle just in the middle of a hundred mile or that's great. Amazing. The last one I had at 107 miles at Moab, was somebody made me the Special. It was like pancakes with Nutella and it just was the most amazing thing I ever had. And it might be a favorite for me now. Yeah, yum. I feel like also nothing tastes better than like, when it's something that you like eat when you're in the middle of a race of some sort.

I don't know why that is. I gots a whole. That's a whole Topic in itself. It is gone. Why is how these sports like teach you to be happy with minimal things and give you a minimalist mindset? Yeah. Yeah, 100%. That's like yeah, that's a good point. The other thing I want to make sure we cover is talking about the kids and and how that kind of weaves in through your running. So I've always raced for, I've always raised for the kids and vulnerable populations. Because I think if you're in a platform where you have like the privilege to do something like I do, then you should use it to help people who are not in a strong position and to give them the resources to do better for themselves.

I always on a year-to-year basis work with redstone Family Center in In Los Angeles there. Like an inner-city organization that works with low-income bracket families, just parents who have a central jobs. Parents from like minority groups, kids who have kids and parents and families, who have suffered things like child, abuse and domestic violence and the parents have their generational traumas, and they just help keep the families together by adopting entire families and give the kids a space to like, you know, No, the kids space to be with each other to kind of have their own daycare to learn developmental skills social educational with these amazing volunteers and they give the parents like therapy and counseling services and just give them the resources to deal with their own traumas and just be better parents.

And that was something that resonated with me due to my own childhood and also growing up in Los Angeles. And I just knew I had to work with them. So I work with them on a year-to-year basis. We've raised ten thousand dollars over the last couple years through this. That's something that I'm going to pick up again in the next couple weeks, but for this race, I knew that. If I was going to a different country like Nepal, I knew that I had to help their community on the ground while I was there and give back to them for giving me such an amazing experience.

And so, I was able to find kids of Kathmandu which is an organization that has set foot in Brooklyn, but they have an on the ground like support system in Nepal. They've built 10 schools up to this point since 2010. When they launched they've retrofitted schools from 2015. After the, if you remember Nepal had a very bad earthquake in 2015. Yeah, they've rebuilt some of the schools because some of the schools were Built to last only a couple years there, like temporary setups. Yeah. But I had a chance to visit a couple of their schools after the race, which is amazing. And they're using like sustainable technology to build them like rammed Earth and just amazing practices you go in there.

There's like a complete, like, 21st century computer labs. There's just like brand new classrooms and like books and just all these resources and still, I heard some amazingly like amazing things. I also heard some like, you know, some sad things. Like, you know, there were 80 kids at one of the schools and the number drop down to 50 because if parents just couldn't afford it anymore. Hmm. And so they yeah this organization is trying to make sure that the kids can have a continued education. Yeah but that happens very often, you know, in places like Nepal and like a lot of places in Asia were two parents for Man, we just can't afford this anymore.

We need more hands around the field. Yeah. So they just can't go to school anymore. And just want to say like, we really do take education for granted over here, you know. Yeah. Oh my God. But you see these kids, the way they are in the classrooms, they're so happy to learn and they're so happy with very simple things. Like, I won't go on this show and say, like, they're like sad and, you know, I'm not going to post pictures where they're like, Like crying or something because these kids are growing up. Like if you grew up a certain way, you'd that's the only way, you know and you're still going to be kids will be kids, right?

But they're like posing and like little things make him happy. So I got to speak to a couple of the classes, ninth grade in tenth grade and I got asked a lot of questions about like my journey and just you know, these kids want to be so many different things like it was Doctor. I want to be a doctor because I want to help. Save lives. I want to be a nurse because I want to serve others, I want to be in the Army because I want to serve my country. I want to be a bodybuilder like amazing things. You know, I want to be a dancer.

So I can teach others expression. Like kids had so many dreams and I just tried my best to, like, tell them the like, hold on to those make mistakes and just keep moving. And one of the mantras I told them was that, you know, I can't run, you know, I can't run 100 miles but I can run one mile 100 times. Okay, that's so cool but it was just an amazing experience to go out there and we raised over two thousand dollars and still going and fundraiser link is in my bio and it was just an honor to be able to do something like this for them because one of the best things that you can do with something a platform that you have is just give back.

Yeah, gosh yeah. So, how long will you keep that open? You know, probably through the rest of June. Okay. Yeah, so I'll include that in my post when I promote this episode and also in the show notes itself. But if anyone wants to follow, it's the a, um, Gandhi Gan DHI on Instagram. So you just gave me the best Mantra ever. So I'm that is that's gold. Because that's one of the last the podcast questions along with that. I ask about songs, so I will ask you. Do you run with music at all? I do sometimes. Yeah, sometimes. Okay. Like I would assume in environments like Everest you wouldn't be allowed to I mean you wouldn't even probably want that because of yeah and when I do my really long stuff, I don't listen to music at all and when I do hard workouts, I don't listen to music at all because I just try to stay in the moment and just kind of trained my mind that way too.

Yeah yeah. The more people I talk to you. That don't listen to music while they run, the more intrigued. I am about that, too. Like to try it just to like, I mean, I my mind wanders. Is even if I am listening to music, I do a lot of podcast listening now or audiobooks to while I run. But I need to try to get rid of that crutch and get more in tune with my body, especially as I'm trying to gain speed. Okay. The other thing that I wanted to talk to you about, was your next finish line or Milestone, so that's coming up in what a couple weeks Broken Arrow.

I saw so your next one. So that's one of the training races I sort of have it's like a sky race that I'm doing which is a whole nother. thing in five weeks in five weeks, my next day race is the Tahoe rim trail 100-mile race and then six weeks after that, in late August, I'm doing my third 200-mile race, it's the inaugural Oregon 200 Oh my gosh, this is just, it's like, you might talk to people a lot in your scene and community and bubble who do these kinds of things. But I will tell you in my bubble, I do not know many people who I know.

I have a couple people I know who've done hundred milers but nobody like you, you're just such an incredible human being and I hope you know that and you do know that because you tell yourself that every day but I hope you know that you've inspired the hell out of me and certainly anybody who's going to listen to this. So I appreciate you taking the time and I appreciate you having me on the show And We Just Vibe you know, like you're you're an awesome personality. Thank you. Well, I felt I when we first met on Zoom with Jason, I felt I am so awkward.

I feel like now I got to know you a little better through social media, so I feel more comfortable but I'm so glad to have a friend out of it now, and I can't wait to Ivan, have to have Jason onto, he's on my list of people to talk to you, because I'm sure he has all these stories himself. So many stories. Even talk about poop. I felt like it's important thing. The most important thing is Runners, which is probably mean it's fine because no, I saw in some of the comments could do it. We could do a whole episode on that but that's a whole nother thing is like how the hell anyway that?

So thank you so much for your time omits. It's been really great to get to know you and I'll be cheering you on for all of your upcoming races. My goodness. Thank you. And we'll have to we have so much to talk about. We'll have to do this again. Excuse me, Oregon. You know, I got I love talking about those, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Alright. Well, it's Monday and it feels like Friday because usually I'm doing this stuff towards, either the middle or end of the week. So this is has me disoriented, but thank you. Thank you. And everybody. I hope you have a good weekend, once you've listened to this.

I hope you want to sign up for 100 mile race after you've listened to this, but as always happy running, happy running everybody. I love talking about those, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Alright. Well, it's Monday and it feels like Friday because usually I'm doing this stuff towards, either the middle or end of the week. So this is has me disoriented, but thank you. Thank you. And everybody. I hope you have a good weekend, once you've listened to this. I hope you want to sign up for 100 mile race after you've listened to this, but as always happy running, happy running everybody.

Ally Brettnacher