Episode 56: Vince Auten - Becoming Invinceable

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May 17

Vince Auten started walking in his mid-30s to avoid buying bigger pants. He went on to run 23 marathons, finish Ironman Louisville at 49 and help found the Geist Half Marathon.

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About this episode

Vince Auten lives in Fishers, Indiana, where he serves on the board of the Fishers Running Club and was on the founding board of the Geist Half Marathon. He started out walking in his mid-30s, ran the 1998 Indy Mini in cotton and worn-out walking shoes, and has since run 23 marathons, including the run at Ironman Louisville, and about 55 half marathons. Today he runs Invinceable Coaching, a life coaching business built around an endurance mindset.

We talk about every running sin he committed at his first Mini, running Chicago with his wife Ellen in the year it was black-flagged, and his Boston qualifier at the Bayshore Marathon that missed the cutoff. Vince also shares what it took to launch a brand-new race, what he learned working at a running store and a brewery after early retirement, and why "run the mile you're in" works for life and business too.

In this episode, we discuss

Track Tuesday with the Fishers Running Club and "Ted Lasso Yassos"
Working on heel striking by increasing cadence
What he learned about shoes working at Runners Forum
Cutting out sugar and Mountain Dew to go from 189 to about 160 pounds
Committing every running sin at the 1998 Indy Mini
Pushing an athlete with Ainsley's Angels at the Indy Mini
Drinking Red Bull before the Milwaukee Marathon
Qualifying for Boston at the Bayshore Marathon and missing the cutoff by about five and a half minutes
Walking his first Chicago Marathon in 2003 and running it with his wife the year it was black-flagged
Helping found the Geist Half Marathon and debating its hilly course
Training with Team in Training and swimming the Potomac at the Nation's Triathlon
Finishing Ironman Louisville the week of his 49th birthday in 90-degree heat
Riding 162 miles across Indiana on the RAIN ride
Starting Invinceable Coaching after early retirement and ICF coach training
Hazy IPAs, Deviate Brewing and Athletic Brewing

Chapters

Intro
Track Tuesday and Yasso 800s
Mutual friends and fixing a heel strike
Working in run specialty
From 189 pounds to the 1998 Indy Mini
Pushing with Ainsley's Angels
Milwaukee, Bayshore and a Boston cutoff
Chicago with Ellen
Fueling and 23 marathons
Founding the Geist Half Marathon
Fishers Running Club and the Monumental
Triathlons and Ironman Louisville
Invinceable Coaching
The RAIN ride, beer and Deviate Brewing
Giving back and his mom's dementia
Gear, mantra and next finish line

Where to find Vince

Instagram: @invinceable_im
Invinceable Coaching

Mentioned in this episode

Races: Geist Half Marathon, Indy Mini-Marathon, Chicago Marathon, Bayshore Marathon, Milwaukee Marathon, Last Chance BQ, CNO Financial Indianapolis Monumental Marathon, Carmel Marathon, New York City Marathon, Ironman Louisville, Nation's Triathlon, Steelhead 70.3, Elkhart Lake Triathlon, RAIN Ride (Ride Across Indiana), Hilly Hundred, Full Mo 50K, Ragnar Traverse City
Organizations and charities: Fishers Running Club, Ainsley's Angels, Joseph Maley Foundation, Leukemia & Lymphoma Society Team in Training, International Coaching Federation, Runners Forum, Deviate Brewing, Athletic Brewing Company, Alzheimer's Association, Personal Best Training, Indy Runners
Other: Yasso 800s (Bart Yasso), Sugar Busters (book), David Goggins, "Right Now" by Van Halen, "Lose Yourself" by Eminem, "Unstoppable" by Sia, Saucony Endorphin Speed

Previous guests mentioned

Related episodes

Frequently asked

Who founded the Geist Half Marathon?

Vince Auten of Fishers, Indiana was the only runner on the founding board of the Geist Half Marathon, which took about a year and a half to launch and which he helped run for eight more years.

What is Invinceable Coaching?

Invinceable Coaching is Vince Auten's life coaching business, which applies an endurance mindset to work and personal challenges rather than writing running training plans.

How did Vince Auten start running?

Vince Auten started walking in his mid-30s after reaching 189 pounds, cut out sugar, and walked most of the 1998 Indy Mini before going on to run 23 marathons and an Ironman.

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Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically, so it may contain errors.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones with Ally Brettnacher. Incredible stories and tales of triumphs with everyday people achieving their goals and fitness. This podcast brought to you by Athlete Bouquets. Celebrate finish lines and milestones of the people that you love by visiting athletebouquets.com Hello and welcome to episode 56. This is Ally Brettnacher, and if you listen to this episode on the day it comes out, it'll be May 17th, 2024, which marks 10 years that I've been married to my husband Zach. A decade, which is wild. Time flies when you're having fun, or it just blurs together when you have young children, and it's a good opportunity.

To use an analogy as it relates to running in that marriage is a marathon, not a Sprint. Certainly not always easy, but I'm so grateful that Zach is my husband and he doesn't listen to this so he won't hear that. But I will be sure to tell him, and huge thank you to my mother and father-in-law who'll be watching the girls so that we can head out for an adult dinner. I pictured us on a beach in Hawaii, but the season of life made that hard and hopefully we'll get there at some point. But our wedding anniversary happens to fall over what used to be the Geist Half Marathon weekend here locally.

And then once we got married, I didn't run that race anymore because it was our anniversary weekend and now it's moved to the fall. But that's relevant because my guest this week, Vince Auten, was actually on the founding board for the Geist Half Marathon, so he helped bring it into existence. And he's still on the board of the Fishers Running Club here locally as well. So Vince and I met via Instagram recently met in person, found out we not only share a love of running but also have 2 girls. We are both solopreneurs. He has a a business called Invincible coaching that is not run coaching but rather life coaching or as he likes to talk about it kind of endurance mindset as it relates to your life.

So you can learn more about that at invinciblecoaching.com or you can follow Vince on Instagram at Invincible INVINCEABLE under score IM, which I did not clarify but I'm assuming stands for Iron Man because Vince is also an Iron Man. Which prompted me to finally reach out to Jay Druba who is the new race director for the Carmel Marathon, to confirm how to say Iron Man, plural. So it's not Iron Men or Iron Man's. You do not change the brand name of Iron Man, but instead you would say Vince has done two Ironman events or two Ironman races or Ironman triathlons. So now we know that's come up a couple times with, you know, the people on this podcast who are also triathletes.

So now I know how to speak about it. Also during this episode we talk about just how Vince got into running, how he is involved in the running community today and looks to be in the future. We talk about several of the races that he's done. We talk about how he is Boston qualified but is not eligible to run Boston yet, which is so frustrating. But I know that he will qualify again and have an opportunity to run there, as I hope to do someday as well. We also talk about run Specialty and nerd out a little bit about gear. We talk about how he's worked at a brewery.

We talk about how his first half marathon, he committed every running sin imaginable. This is really a great episode and I didn't realize how long Vince and I had been talking by the end of this episode. It went by so fast, and I know it will while you're listening, so I really hope that you enjoy this episode with Vince Auten. Your voice sounds better. Yes, thank goodness. Yeah, I don't sound so bad. That's good. I still have this cough hanging in there, but a. Lot of allergies going. On it is. It's been rough, yeah. Running outside, they were mowing along my running route today and I was like, this is not going to be good.

Where do you run? You run. I run on me a lot of the time just up Main Street, so I live on Shelbourne and Main run up Main. Sometimes I work my way through W Clay for a change of scenery, but a lot of times I just go down back. OK. I'm down and back. Boring. Out and back. That's my life. Does the same thing. Yep. Yeah. It's like, why can't we run the same? Like I like to mix it up a little bit. Yeah, I understand that too, but I am a creature of. Habit. That's OK. Yeah, especially in a race discipline, right? Yeah, yeah, I know exactly what to expect at least on that.

Those runs for the most part. All right, Vince. Well, thank you so much for making the trek over from Fishers to be here today of. Course. We're not in my closet and I am no longer. I no longer sound deathly ill So. I appreciate that. I don't have to be in the closet. Yeah, it is. It's cozier, albeit not quite as fancy, so. Quite a nice library here. Is this your first time over here? Yeah, it's so nice. Super nice. Yeah, I have used that. We're in the Digital Media Lab and they have a 3D printing studio too here that I've dabbled a little bit.

In Barbie. Barbie Furniture 3D printing. I'm trying to think of what I can do what I can 3D print for Athlete Bouquets. Well, punched you put your mini rack up, so you can obviously do anything, make anything. That's what I'm thinking. With enough patience. I might have to hire you. Yeah, careful. You can do it that fast too. I mean that would speed fast if. Only it was that fast. Save you some time. Yeah, for sure. Did you get a run in this morning? I. Did Fishers High School I Did track Tuesday. Track Tuesday I. Was doing some. I called it doing lasso, Yasos, Ted Lasso, Yasos.

That's what I called it. What does? What does Yasso mean? You ever heard of Yasso? He's. I'm trying to think of his first name, but Runner's World. And if you 8, if you run 8 hundreds at a certain equivalent, it helps predict what your marathon pace can be. OK, I've never heard that. Bart Yaso. That's his first name. Bart. OK, well, I I'll have to look that up. Lassos Yasos. Is there a Ted lasso you just play on words? Yeah, I like it. And our mutual friend Trina said. Oh, that must been an interesting thought process as you're running. I was. Like. Yep. Don't know why I thought of it, but it did.

But I did. During the suffer. Yeah, Wow. OK. So do you do that every Tuesday and it's with the Fishers running Club or do you do that on your own? Fishers running club. I wouldn't do it if I was. Right alone. I can't quite figure out when the track is technically open, the one that's by my house, which is at my kids school. I I've only been turned away one time. When they're like, no, you can. That's not bad. I was like, OK. We were. We used to do it at Fishers Middle School and then all of a sudden they locked the doors and like, yeah, what?

So we had to find another place. So. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I know. I wish there was like hours of operation like for public use. Just posted there. So just tell me because you hate to get there. And then they're like, sorry and. So now what am I doing? Just spreading around. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Today I did my strides like in front of my house. Just. Because my dog Doug does not love to run fast anymore. He's 10, so he can do easy miles with me. And in fact, he keeps me going easy because he doesn't, you know, he'll like, be like, no, I'm not going that fast.

So I'll just roll with him for a while and then I drop him off at home and then I do my fast. Stuff. Nice, nice. That'll keep you going. Easy pace when you need to go. Easy, right? Exactly. It's hard. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. So you and I have only met one one other time in person. Yeah, we met at Starbucks up in Carmel, and Rachel was there your coach? Oh, that's right, I. Got to meet her. Yes, so funny. Such a small world. Always small world. That's what I find as I listen to your people that you talk to. I'm thinking I know them.

Yeah 'cause the first one I listened to was Sarah Farney. Right, Yeah, I'm trying to think of all the Fishers running club. I think she's the only one so far. Yep. And then Trina. I know Trina, and I know Rose. And Rose Scoville. I've known her forever so. Yeah, small. World connections Small. World Connections. I'm going to have Mark Geyer on. Oh yeah, finally, I told him. He scared me because he's just intimidating to me for whatever reason, because he's fast, super fast guy. But now I've, you know, now I've asked him and. He's a good dude, you'll like him. He's very chill. I call him the happy runner.

He's always got a smile on his face and he's going at like 5 whatever pace and I'm thinking I'd be dying. I feel like you'd be the happy runner too. I haven't watched you run, but I feel like that's the vibe you would get. Give up. I wish that was me when I was coaching with Matt Ebersole PBT and I'd get my race picture. Afterwards I go look at I look like crap and he goes, do you want a good race in a bad picture or a good picture in a bad race? Yeah, I would take. I would take the good race every. Time so look like crap.

So if I get a good picture, that's like a win, win. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Really so true. And you were joking about how you got a picture of your both feet off the ground. Can you believe it? You were talking about it recently so I had to share it and it happened this morning. Somebody in our club was taking pictures, so. You're like, look at me, I'm off the ground. I'm actually running. A little bit off the ground. Yeah, yeah. It's a miracle when that happens for me, I swear. I'm a recovering heel striker, so I've been shortening my stride. OK. Which will help me so.

So you figured out how to get rid of your heel strike. I'm working on it. Working on it but it's. Better because what I'm doing is increasing the cadence and when you increase the cadence you can't over stride. Yeah, so. But that's hard to do. How do you Very hard. How do you approach that? Some of it's in my head, OK. I know some of them talk about you can listen to music that's a certain pace, so you can do that too. Yeah. So some of them, they say just lean a little bit forward, but I always tend to lean back again. So go figure.

I struggle with that as well, and for a while right after. I started working at Fleet Feet for a while and a friend of mine, Whitney Bevins was one I made there and she was on this podcast very early on. She might have been like episode 3 or 4, but she was trying to teach me about how to get rid of my Heel Strike and I found I think it was starting to cause me problems. Yep. So I was like, maybe I'll just relax on that for a bit and. That's what happened last year because I did. And we'll talk about it. I know we'll talk about Bayshore, but then I did Last chance BQ.

Yeah, yeah. I had planner, yeah, yeah. So it hurt. And that was what really got me to start shortening my stride. Yeah, well, it makes a lot of sense. You don't want to. You're slowing yourself down and putting so much more force on your body with that heel. I get it. But then I was leaning forward and putting so much pressure on my the ball of my foot that I was making that mad. And you're just like, OK. I talk to myself a lot. Midfoot, midfoot, midfoot, midfoot. Yeah, come on. Do you wear insoles? I do. Probably have to. You know, I used to work at Runner's Forum for a couple years.

So yeah, I learned a lot about shoes. I realized I knew nothing about shoes. I felt the same way and I felt I still feel like I know more than I did. I worked for a year and run specialty, but I know more. But I also feel like, you know, you got the shoe heads, the the people who know the drop of every single shoe, every model. And I'm just like I don't. I am not quite that knowledgeable, but I feel like I at least have a much better understanding. That's funny. You say that there was a guy that came in and every time the let's see what would have been, oh the guide, Saucony guide and it just literally come out.

We had just gotten inventory that morning and he came in. He goes, well tell me about the shoe. And I like how does it feel? I was like, dude, it just came. In I literally haven't put it on my foot. Literally, haven't I said, just don't you just put them on and try for yourself? But I thought I just got the shoe. I don't know, but I usually will try most of. Them, right. Yeah, that's. And then that's how I found. I was trying to figure out how to articulate how it feels, which is a whole other thing. Like people who are good at reviewing shoes just have a way to be able to tell you how it feels because you, you know, you get the customers come in, they put on a shoe, You're like, how does it feel good?

Well, what's different? I don't know. I can't tell. It's. Kind of funny. Well, and some will say it's firm and I'm thinking that's a Max cushion shoot. You're feeling firm. Wow. Right. OK, but another person's like, oh, it's squishy. Yeah. So it just depends on. Yeah, it's so funny. But yeah. So why'd you stop working there? Really kind of devoting time to my coaching business as you know, you're a solopreneur, Yeah, so I'm kind of devoting all my time to that. So, but it was fun, I enjoyed it. I always said when I retired that I would work at a brewery and I'd work at a running store because I had to figure out what I wanted to do because I got early retirement.

But it wasn't not to the finish line yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we're going to have to talk about the brewery thing. Yes. Yeah, don't let me forget, because usually when I say, hey, let's talk about that later, I'll just totally forget so and not on purpose. I'll be listening back and I'll be like, oh crap, I totally forgot to come back to that. But I do want to talk about that for sure. But I I want you to be able to introduce yourself and tell people a little bit about you and then we'll go through the journey. Vince Auten, I've been I started running later.

I was in my mid 30s when I started running, actually walking. I'd gotten to the point where I was I weighed 189 and I was going to go into the next size pants. My wife was with me and I go, hell no, hell no. I'm not going into that next I I was like distraught. So then I cut out sugar. So I went from 189 to like 160. Cut out sugar. Yeah, I read a book, Sugar Busters, and one of the big things I did is I drink Mountain Dew. Right. Not good boys and girls. There's a lot of sugar in that. Oh man, yeah.

So that made a big difference. And then I was like, I need to get in shape. And that kind of became the beginning of my journey. Wow. So you started through walking, not running. So what did that look like? It was OK. I didn't know what I didn't know then. Then I'll tell you, this is, I heard somebody say, you got to do the mini marathon. I'm like, I don't even know what that is. And it was. I ended up my wife and I did it the the last year it was downtown on a Friday. OK. So like 1991 or something because I recently looked that up.

80 Wait a Minute 98. Is that right? Oh, 1998? Yeah. Yeah, 1998. It was a Friday. I took work off that day. OK. And it was raining, the only time I've done the Mini when it rained. I I think I only have one out of like the 17 I've done where it rained. So just to let you know, I committed every running sin in the book. What I do 65 miles of training these stupid walking shoes that were already worn out by the time I was training during the race. Everything I had was cotton, not. Back then, Right back then. There wasn't a war. An attack.

Yeah, so true. I had a garbage Garbage bag and I didn't take it off after it stopped raining. Oh, it's like a sauna. Oh, like a sauna. Bloody nipples. I had a long I wore the race shirt like. I Oh, yeah. What a dork I was. Such a dork. Sorry, sorry to anybody who's. Yeah, no offense. But don't do that. Well, I mean, I guess do whatever you want. That's what I've come to the point. That's OK. Yeah, that's fine. So after the race, my wife secretly said she was trying to beat me and she didn't. So that was kind of funny, 'cause I was like, I wasn't even competing against you.

I just wanted to survive. I think the first mini I ran like, I don't know, 220 something. OK. Did your wife run with you? No, we don't run together usually, although there is one we can talk about it. Chicago, we did Chicago one year. That's nice. So the last part I would tell you about the mini that year. She said I'm hungry. I said OK, where do you want to go? And she goes White Castle and I go, I go OK at. Least this is after. No, K Oh my gosh. So we felt miserable. We were both tired and wet and waterlogged. I had bloody nipples, I mean the whole 9 yards chafing.

And then we ate White Castle, I said. I thought you're only supposed to eat White Castle after you've been drinking, right? Yeah, I guess. I think I've only eaten it like once in my life. Yeah. So usually after a beverage, right? Probably. After a few years, yeah, that's OK. So yeah, So and believe it or not, I've done over 20 minis and you'll soon to catch that, so, oh, OK. But it's it's fun. And then I was like. Did you go this year? I didn't. I didn't. Why not? Good question, 'cause after last year I wanted to take a break and I didn't want to tempt myself to come back after.

After doing those two marathons last year, I was like, OK, if I put something on my schedule, I'll I'll keep training hard. So I just said I'm not going to, so I didn't. Good for you, but. After hearing you talk about Angele's Angels, yeah, I I so want to do that. Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm in recruiting mode, so I already registered for the mini for next year. Nice. And then I've gotten a couple texts from people being like, Okay, like, consider me signed up. Gordon Strain, that is your I'm committing you to this. And a few other people I've talked to are like, that would be really fun.

And it's literally like, I'm like, that's how I'm doing the mini every year. I love that. Yeah, I am going to do an abbreviated version of that in August. OK, so through the Joseph Meili Foundation, I'm going to be the bike part of a Sprint try. That's really cool. So that's going to be fun. Yeah. How many miles will that be? Like 10? Like 10? OK, I can survive 10 miles. That's still going to be. Really. Oh, I know it is. As I you know, with young kiddos, we still are three-year olds getting close to not wanting to be in the caboose anymore and being in our own bike, but pulling that thing.

Yeah, I can only imagine. I've watched people push in a race and that. That's got to be hard. You know what? It was not nearly as hard as I imagined it because I imagined it like a stroller. But these, you know, racing Chariots are like built really well and very efficient, at least the one I had, which they called a blade for anybody who knows anything, that should mean something to you, I guess, but it was like it was not so bad. Was that aluminum? Was it light? It was very light. Yeah. Yeah. And so and we the young woman we pushed was 9 so girl she.

So it really wasn't. It wasn't too bad. That's good. Yeah, which was good because I expected it to be like pushing my jogging stroller, which I haven't in a long time. But where it was, it was tough. That thing was heavy and not quite as efficient. So so I think for people who are like, oh, I could never do that, it would be so hard. It really wasn't too bad. Plus you can have a partner see switch off. Yeah, your, your buddy, your. Buddy. Yep. Yeah, sounds like you guys had fun. It was a blast, so you got to do it. She was worn out.

And you Kind of. I know, I was like. Toward the end, let's go. I was. Feeling so good So. How was it going under? Like, Oh yeah, under the Speedway. To get to the track. So it was, it was fine. And I I remember thinking, OK, like starting to go down it was I was pushing and I'm like Ashley, I'm going to use this momentum to get up the other side because I was afraid if I went too slow then pushing up the other side would be too hard. So for anybody who's not done the Mini, when you go into the IMS, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, there's like it's a downhill and then immediately uphill.

So I use the momentum of the downhill to then like I went as fast as I could up the other side and then I thought I was going to die. But the Six Mile marker is like right after that. And so then Ashley, it was Ashley's turn. So I got to recover, but that's a. Good how? I That's a good pro tip. I like that. Just like get it done and then it'll be done versus like going too slow and then. I'm going to remember that because if I do it next year, I need to know how to do it. Yeah, I don't want to get stuck there.

Right. Yeah. Have some strength. You'd be like, hey, help me. Hey, push me from the. Back out of here. Push me while I'm pushing. Yeah, yeah. So did you you said 65 miles, you trained for your first half at the Mini, was a lot of that did you just, were you still walking a lot or OK? Very, very little running. I mean, as I think about doing the race that year, it was mostly walking, but from time to time I would run. And I think toward the end, my body was just telling me to run, but it wouldn't cooperate. Yeah, And so when you did it, were you still on your no Sugar kick?

I was, man. I was. Cause like everything has sugar in it. Yes, yes. But do you? Do you still? No, OK, no I but it helped. It helped. I kind of just cutting out sugar from soda made a huge difference. Yeah, I can only imagine. Do you ever indulge in a Mountain Dew after a long run or anything like that? Don't because my stomach doesn't love it, right? So I'm grateful that that that actually happens. Yeah, so. And it doesn't taste like it used right taste to me. No offense, Mountain Dew drinkers, but it tastes too chemically. Now I don't know if we have too many Mountain Dew, I wouldn't think.

So there might be some, yeah. Well, I know Tracy Hunter Hunter, Indiana runner girl. Loves her regular coke after a run. OK, I could see that. Maybe that? Yeah, because that's the only time. Like, I'll drink a regular Coke if I'm hungover, which isn't as much anymore as it used to be. Or like if I'm yeah, after a long run, but I prefer chocolate milk or a milkshake to a soda. Absolutely. That's one of the things I like doing, the tries at the Eagle Creek tries. They always had chocolate milk. So I'd see Smitty afterwards. Mike Smith, he'd always have his chocolate milk. I was like, let's go, let's.

Go. I love it. Yeah, yeah. I didn't get mine after the Mini this year, what? Probably my first time ever. Well, 'cause we took the chairs back to what they called the infield. I don't know if this was the first year they did that, but it's the first year I remember there being an infield where they have these tents that companies could actually sponsor. So Annex had a like tent. So did Fleet Feet, where they had beer and food and candy. And so like, after we dropped off our chair back there, we saw all this going on. It's like, oh, so I never made it over to go get my chocolate milk, which is kind of sad.

That sucks, 'cause that's kind of the thing we do. Right, right. Yeah, that's OK. All right, quick story. Just 'cause we were talking about this. So one year I did the Milwaukee Marathon. OK. And total rookie mistake. And I wasn't a rookie, but one of the guys that was, he was driving the van to get us to the school, 'cause you, you drive far north and then you run all the way to downtown Milwaukee. He and I drank a Red Bull before the race. Why I ever did that, I no idea. What a. And do you? Did you drink Red Bull ever? No, I'd had it before, but it wasn't like, you know what I mean?

What do we always say? Nothing new on race day. Like, so you're just like all the Red Bull, like. My friend goes, what are you doing? I was like, I don't, I don't know he he's doing it. So I guess I'm doing it. And I was OK till about mile 1617 and it's getting hard and we had this crew with us. So they were following us. They had a van. It was right by the right by the race. And they go, here's another one, I drank like a sip and I was like, no, that sounds awful because after a while you're doing gels and stuff.

The last thing you want is more. Sugar. Yeah, so no, That was the last Red Bull I ever had. Stupid. Even if I wasn't doing a race, I'm not drinking a. Red Bull, right? I used to be. I used to drink sugar free Red Bull a lot, actually. My first job. My first job out of college. I liked it then. I don't know. Caffeine. Yeah, some serious. Caffeine. I also did Diet Mountain Dew actually for a while, Speaking of Mountain Dew. That brings that I tried it and I was like doesn't doesn't taste. It now I don't. I couldn't. I could not possibly. That sounds awful.

Does sound really gross. Yeah. Yeah, no thanks. Nope. Stick to my my hot hockey wife. Thanks Java House. Is that what it's called? Yeah, I like the name of that. I don't really even know that it has coffee in it actually, but it has some sort of caffeine. Are you a hockey fan? No. That's even funny. I love it. I. Just think it sounds funny. Hot. I'll have a hot hockey wife. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah, hello. Hello. So Milwaukee. Wow, my sister lives up there. Nice. So. Like in Milwaukee or? She is a suburb Bay. Is it Bayshore? Is that the name of her city?

Sorry Case, she doesn't listen. She doesn't run yet. Yet. And she needs to listen. She said that she would start running just so she could be a guest. She said so. Is that the entry for you to get in? Yeah, yeah, that's how you get her in. Yeah, exactly. You start running, you can be on the podcast. Otherwise, no thank you. No. Then nobody has time for that. We're talking, we're here to talk about running and random stuff, So Bayshore, but that's not where your Bayshore Marathon was. No mine that was up in Traverse City. That's right, Traverse City. OK, so I'm sure you've seen numerous memes about when people say, oh, it's flat and they said it was flat with some gently rolling hills.

No, no. So it's an out and back for the marathon. OK, so. And there were. I'd like that. Four or five of us that were running that day, the marathon that day, and it's a turn around. You just turn around at the halfway point, and I was like, I feel like I expended a little too much energy. So I knew the second-half was going to be rough, 'cause I was on pace to run 345. Oh yeah. Now here's the ironic thing, and I know we're going to talk about it. My BQ time is 350, so I wanted to run at 3:45. Really. I wanted to PRBQ, which would have been like 344, but the heat and the hills.

And then the last few miles I started cramping and I was like, but you know, it depends on the day. It really does. So I got in, crossed the finish. I was like hell yes I made it and then obviously submitted my time and they say not so much 5 1/2 minutes. So even if I had to run 345, I wouldn't have got in. I'm sorry. Me too. Me too. I mean, I'm official qualifier, yeah. And I want to run it because my wife's like, well, you're done. You ran the you, you qualify. And I was like, no. You know that I want to. Run it.

Yeah, Yeah. So. But I'm not done. I listen to you, you guys talk about being killing. Well, I'm going to run it. I'm going to re qualify and I'm going. To run Me too, at some point. It'd be fun if we were there at the same time, but I'd be a feeling you're going to get it done sooner. I hope so. And that was the other reason I didn't want to sign up for races again because, well, I'm going to say it. You're the only one. Well, everybody that listens to this. I did sign up for Monumental. Yeah. So. Excellent. We just need weather like last year and it'll be amazing.

Not like two years ago. Correct. When I decided to run the full for the first time, great. BS You remember we you turn on Meridian and I saw Cubs blowing off the table and they had water in them. Yeah. I was like this. Sucks. It was crazy. It was so crazy. I still had a decent race, actually. Good for year, you know, All things considered, I felt so good. I was laughing at the wind, 'cause I'm like, this is so ridiculous. That we're doing this. But I I think I was just, that was my first race post baby two, my first full, I should say.

And so I was, and it was the first time I had actually trained correctly, like with a coach and the way I was supposed to. And I was executing on my race plan and feeling good and so. Good job, Coach Rachel. Yeah. Thank you, coach Rachel, So you mentioned Milwaukee Bayshore, How many marathons have you run and and at what point, what year did you start running the like a full marathon going from running the Mini and making all the mistakes to doing a full marathon like how did that happen? I think I'm trying to think. I don't know if somebody I knew had done Chicago, and I grew up in the Chicago suburbs about an hour from there, and I thought that would be fun.

My first I did Chicago in 2003. OK. And I walk the whole thing 540. Not bad. Definitely not. And my wife came to spectate and she went to mile 20 and jumped in with me. And then she goes, how you feeling? I go, my legs are sore and she's like, quit your wine and let's go. So she helped me get the last 10K. Oh, that's nice. And then just a side note, then she said at some point she goes, I want to run a marathon and she goes, I think I'll just run the indie marathon. Remember when they had the indie marathon? And I go, oh, come on, if you're going to do your first marathon, let's do Chicago.

So we did Chicago, and it was the year at Black Flagged. What year was that? That's a good question. 2005, 2006 ish. Trying to remember when it was, we got to mile 18 and it was like the apocalypse. All the tents were full of runners that had heat stroke. They had opened the fire hydrants and the water was wow. And then we walked toward the finish line on Columbus and they handed us a medal that was still in the wrapper. So it was like very anti climactic. So my wife was not happy. So to her credit. Is that the only marathon for her? No, she's she ran monumental as well.

OK, good. She got redemption. Because well what she did was 2 weeks later she ran the indie marathon cause a friend of mine, Jeff Graves was the race director and I said Ellen wants to run but she doesn't want to pay for it and he's like OK, so he gave her a bid And So what I did is the girls were young, probably age or your girls. I I ran the half and then I went back and took care of the girls and then came back at Model 20 and ran with her. Oh. Perfect. So, all right, I'm going to tell this part of the story, and I've forgotten about this, But she had mentioned it the other day.

So on 56th St. even in the half, you know, you're running and the hills are rolling. Well, I'm headed toward and out, you know, probably, I don't know, Mile five, mile 4, whatever that is, as you get by the government center and all that. Well, she's still coming the other way. And I said, hey, she flipped me off. Ellen, that's what I would have done. So her friends are like, who's that? And she goes, oh, that's my husband. And the guys running with me are like, damn, who's that? That's my wife. Perfect. Perfect, huh? Yeah, perfect. We're still married. There we go. How many years?

30 Let's see, 33 this year. Let's see. Yeah, 33 doing the math. That's amazing. Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. Yeah, man. And you. So you had had. That's the only race you really did truly together. Was that Chicago? Yes. And then I, like I said, I came in at mile 20 of the, so not the whole. We didn't get to do the whole thing right. And I knew I could tell at the halfway. You know that Chicago, when you turn right and then there's the banner saying, hey, it's halfway. Oh, yes, yeah. And I'm thinking, come on, we're halfway. And I look at her and she's and what they had started doing is taking down tables for water.

So I I was, I was the Sherpa holding bottles of water. Somebody opened their hose for me. Somebody else gave me a bottle of Gatorade. And what I learned after that is always have money underneath your insole case you ever need money. So I know now, thankfully, like a lot of gear, I've got like sports bra pockets and pockets and yeah, all the things to put and Apple Pay, there you go. Apple Pay. I love that. I've used that actually close by here before on a run stop at a gas station. I'm like I need to go to the bathroom and I need some something.

I didn't have enough fuel, so Gatorade or whatever. Where you have company send you, you've been trying all kinds of gels I saw. Like, yeah, yeah. What are you liking? So I'm on a Maple syrup kick. Really. How does it taste? Like Maple syrup, it's so good. I mean like is it? How does it? No, it's like liquidy. That's what I was wondering because I'm. More liquidy than a goo? OK, so it's not thick. So it's not thick, but I do like goo. I'm like, I like, yeah, so I could do goo. I'm fine with that. But I was like, oh, I kind of want to just dabble and try some other stuff.

And yeah, do you? Are you? I've been doing Goo Can. OK, I've never tried. You can actually. It's kind of easier on the stomach. I've heard that. The only thing is, there's not a lot of flavors. OK, available so, but it's something different, Yeah. And the great thing about goo? There's so many flavors that you can try, like salted caramel rocks. That's salted caramel. Salted watermelon are my two favorites. That's a good one. So I like the salty part of it. I agree. And then it usually has caffeine in it. Yeah. Yep. So rock'n'roll. Yep, Yeah. So, so how many full marathons have you run Vince to this day?

23. OK. Including my Iron Man. So I count that. I count that one because that was awful. I feel like that's fair. That is fair. We'll, we'll allow it. Thank you. Appreciate that. How many and how many half marathons? I had to count that recently because I watched some of you guys how many you've done. I think I've done like 5455 now. Rose has done over 100. She's getting close to 100. Close to 100. She told me that she was planning trying to do it so that it would be at Monumental this this year or next year. I can't remember. But yeah, that's coming up.

I'm on 59. Look at you, Rockstar. So I just do all the local, like I just do them all, Yeah, yeah, as many as I can. I love that. Yeah, Why not? Why not? So how did I didn't get a chance because I was going to come see you at the Expo. How did Carmel go for you at the Expo? Oh, it was really fun. Yeah. Yeah. It's the first time I've represented athlete bouquets at an Expo with a booth. You know, you learn a lot about kind of how to Share your story, like what you're doing. But it was just fun to meet just so many runners.

I mean, I love runners, obviously. So that was great. Maybe you got some future people on your podcast? From there, right. Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. This one lady who was at Carmel, she had a stroke like 8 years ago and she couldn't really speak very well. You could kind of understand her, but she'd run like over 800 marathons. What? Yeah. And I was like, I would love to have her on the podcast. I just, I don't know, like the articulation of the story. She like Facetimed her brother while I was with her too. And that was interesting. I was like okay, maybe he could tell her story, but she was.

I was just, she was pacing at the at the race. What distance did you run at Carmel? Did you run? I didn't see I told you. Did you didn't do anything, so were you there or you just didn't go to the? Expo Well, I was going because I was going to help a friend finish the marathon. And then I had car problems. Oh, I was like, and then I tried to park in that church parking lot and it was packed. Oh yeah, it was packed. And then I then I was trying to still find a place and all of a sudden I got engine lights on.

I was like, this isn't good boys and girls. Yeah, So I had to bag it. At what point I did you help start the Geist Half marathon? I want to hear about that piece of it. So I was on the founding board. Yeah, cool. I had told Ellen that I wanted to be on something like that start. I wanted to start a race. And Tom Britt, who used to do at Guy East and he's done at Carmel and all those publications had something in there saying, hey, anybody that's interested in helping start a race show up. And we were at Bird Ford and they had this gorgeous auditorium where they like people could go in there and watch movies.

I'm thinking this is what the other half does. It's pretty cool. But we met there and there were maybe ten of us, something like that. And we said, hey, let's do a race. And there was there were a couple of race directors there. One of them was Ken Long and he he used to do races all the time. And then Jeff Graves, who does Vision Event Management and both of them. And it was funny, 'cause we're all going, hey, let's do a race next year or whatever. And he goes, you can't do it in eight months from nothing. So it took us about a year and a half to put the first race on.

Wow, yeah 'cause of. All the permits, permits and police and pack and pick up and you name it. Well, and Geist used to have like the transportation used to be much different. Where where you had to get on a bus to go to the start. Yes, and. Then had to get on a bus again to get back to your car. Correct. And I was on bus duty, so you might have seen me and not knowing it if you did it. Oh, probably. Those years, Yeah. And I would just chat up people and like, what'd you think? Yeah, this is sucked or this is great. Most people loved it.

Yeah, they said. It's hilly. Right, of course. And the story that I always tell is I was the only runner on the board. And when we designed the course, yeah, they're like. So why did they want to start a race if they're not runners? I think the original guy, Tom Britt, wanted to do 1 to benefit the local schools for health and Wellness. So, and that's exactly what we did. And we had the school program, we had all those kids run the race and then guess who comes with the kids? They're parents. So it was a lot of fun. It was very hilly. Original one was.

And then the second one they did. You know, when we changed it, it was out and back. The one year it went up the hill toward Ale Emporium. It used to stop at the bridge and then they kept going one year and had it go up toward Ale Emporium and there's a hill, yeah. OK. And I was like, are you guys stupid? They go, well, it's net zero. And I said, have you ever run up a hill the last two or 3/10 of a race? It's brutal. Yeah, so. Is that where they used to have it? Like mile 11 was where that big hill was.

Yes. When you come into Cambridge and then you so you do all this downhill and you think you're going to be done at the bridge. And that one year it kept going and then went up the hill. I was like, this is dumb. Even my wife said who did this and I said I was outvoted. I would never have done that to my fellow runners. Yeah, yeah, it's Geist is hilly. But I I like that race. I did it for a number of years until I got married and it's in. It was the weekend of our wedding anniversary. And then now it's switched to the fall.

But so for the, I don't know, you know. So we got married that week and then I was like, well, guess I'm not doing that race anymore. So, yeah. But then I did it last year. Yeah. Last two years. I think I've done it. I can't remember. But yeah, I like, I like the hills. I think it's something different, especially like Indiana, right? We don't have a lot of hills around here. Correct. And that's a challenge. And it's a good challenge. It is. And the atmosphere is always good. Yep. So and I heard Ashley talking about it, My wife and daughters did that. They do that.

We called it the triple. Oh yeah, the trisector. You do the mini caramel and guys, yeah, they were two weeks apart. Yeah, I loved that. I'm kind of sad that that Geist is now in the fall because the fall is busy. I mean, it's busier than the spring. I would. Say, yeah, the challenge got to be is when Geist was like some of this local schools, that was their graduation. So then people were like, wow, I can't do the race because we have graduation. So that was part of the reason And then as you know when you have three races, you're kind of, I mean you don't compete against the Mini, but some people who do the Mini go, I'm done.

Right. Well, you're not going to do another one. Yeah, usually like generally speaking you would look to, you would get one of the, you know, somebody would do 1A season. Yeah, so. Yeah, and the running world, you know, being on the board for Monumental, I I think it's it's more competitive than I imagined it to be. I thought we'd all be friends, you know, But it's, you know, it's not that way. Have you found some pals though? Oh yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, I still have friends from that guys board. Yeah, so. Oh, I love our board. Our team is wonderful. But yeah, no, I just mean, like, I never really thought about the Mini being a competitor or like, guys being a competitor, right?

It's like, oh, we're all just getting people to run. This is great. Let's learn from each other, work together to get as many people to run as possible. But yeah, I mean, you're looking for that. Share a wallet. Sign up for my race, you know. That's why we came up with the month of May Club. So if you did one other race and Geist half, you got a special like bib special medal. I remember that my friend used to do that. I never did. I should have. Probably, 'cause we were trying to figure a way to How do we still get people to do our race after doing Carmel or Indy?

Yep. Yeah. And so you were on the board for the guys half for a while? Yes, but eight years. So it's two years of planning and then eight more years. Wow. And now you are. Are you on the board for Fisher's running club? I am. And how long have you been doing that? I think a year. OK. Sponsorships, So that's good. I mean, so I've gotten it. Some of these people who are sponsors, I know some of them have been in the club before so. Yeah, yeah. How did you? It's just, it's interesting. You go from like, I'm out of shape. I'm starting to walk.

I'm going to do a half, but I do some marathons now. I'm starting to race now I'm on, you know, the board of a running club. Like, would you have ever thought that this is how you would be in terms of just the running aspect of your life? No, no. I was just trying to get in shape and not be a fat ass. Yeah, that's just me speaking to myself. And then so does Ellen run anymore? She does. She does still run. She wants to run a marathon here in the next year or so. OK, well, that's. Monumental cool 'cause it's familiar. We don't have to travel anywhere.

Logistics are great. Logistics are it's a great race. Yeah. We're investing a lot this year into neighborhood activation. So trying to get, figure out a way to just get the neighborhood more excited about the race and you know, like the idea of month of may porch parties, like we want to encourage that environment for our race. Yeah, You know, I mean, sometimes the weather's not great. Obviously a lot of it's weather dependent. But you know, you think about some of the bigger races like Chicago, I mean, gosh, there's just, you can't really run anywhere. There's no spectators. And so we'd love to see more of that.

So yeah, it's definitely going to be a good one to do. And I like that Indie Runners does their, you know, their 20 Miller or 10 Miller on the Monon, which? I've done that once before. So that's a good way to prepare for it so. Yep, absolutely. So the race keeps getting better and better. I think the hard part is once you get out of the Museum of Art and you go down 38th and then down the ramp and I call it like No Man's Land for about 3 or 4 miles, there's like nobody down there. So it's like a training run basically. So I'm always glad to get to the point where we can turn on Meridian.

Right. Yep. And then you can kind of see the finish line, even though it's like really far away because you know you're going to finish downtown and it seems so close 'cause you can see the Salesforce Tower, it's a lot farther away than it looks. Especially I remember the one year going at the halfway point up in broad rip on your left. We have to run back downtown. I'm like. Yeah, yeah, that's where that, you know, running that Monon training run was nice, 'cause you you run the entire length of it and you're like, OK, I've done this before. It's a mental thing, right? We want to know what it's like.

Yep, absolutely. Yeah, so yeah, that's so crazy. And then when did you get into triathlons as part of this 'cause you are an Ironman? I know, crazy. I was just crazy if. If you'd asked me that, I would have said no. One year like Leukemia and Lymphoma Society team and training, they always have those events. You can come in and they usually have one of their honored heroes there. And the one meeting I went to, I could have done Honolulu because I thought, oh I could run Honolulu marathon. And I thought somebody there said, and I didn't know them. They said how about doing a triathlon.

I was like, what's that? Because I didn't know what the swim bike run. So I did nations try. It was Olympic distance. OK, an Olympic is what? It's the swim is about a mile OK? The bike is like 2526 and the runs at 10K. So the 73 is the is the half Iron Man, correct. Olympic is a step down. OK. And then you've got like a is there a Sprint one or is it? There's a Sprint. OK, Yeah. The Sprint is typically what they do at Eagle Creek. Yeah, it's usually like 04500 yards and then it's usually a 10 to 12 mile bike and then a 5K run.

Yeah, I did that a long time. Long time ago. It's only triathlon. Oh, no. Two triathlons. Small ones. Good. See you've done them. Yep. So I so I do that race and I posted this recently on Facebook. So I wasn't a very good swimmer at the time. I was almost scared, like doing it, and I had to get into Potomac because it was in. DC oh, interesting and. So I was really nervous, and the honored hero's mom, Dia Walls, brought her daughter to me and took a picture. And I thought, if she can go through chemo, I can get in that freaking river and swim a mile.

So swimming against the current. And I was struggling. And my wife, she was up on the bridge and she goes, let's go. And I go, shut up, I'm trying. Yeah, I am. And then, fortunately, you turn back and you're with. The current Well, that's. Nice. You'd have thought that would have deterred me from doing any more. But I didn't, because I met friends that I still have friends. And guess what the next hurdle was? Well, the well, the 70. 3.3 So they were training for Steelhead up in Michigan and I said, OK, I'm going to do it. So you do it, you know you you make these friends and then it's like, come on, you got to do this race.

So then we did that one and I even, I even did the relay one year for that. But that was a fun race. And then I OK, so I did that one and then some people like we did a Olympic distance up in Wisconsin. It was Elkhart Lake Tri. And they. Have a place called the Tiki Bar afterwards. And the infamous thing is like, people commit to doing races up there, like, all right, what are we going to do next? And I was like don't look. At me? Yeah. Don't talk to me. Don't talk to me. And they were going to do a Rev 3.

There used to be these Rev 3 races. They weren't Iron Man ones, but same distance. OK. And I was like, I'm not doing Rev 3. And then, lo and behold, I end up saying I'm going to do Louisville. And I did it on my 49th birthday week. I mean before I turned 50. Wow. Yeah, so crazy. That's crazy. And so we're one and done for a full Iron Man. I would say 99%, yeah. Yeah, it was 90° when I start running. I can't. It was awful. So I come out of transition and Ellen is there and she goes, how you feeling? I go, I feel like shit, I said I don't feel like running.

She goes, You love running, I go, it's 90°. Yeah, and I've just done. Yeah, so I just swam 2.4 in the Ohio River and I just biked 112. My legs were trashed. Yeah, So. But I did it. I finished. Wow, that's incredible. I was more concerned getting the tat, I said. If I finish the Iron Man, I'm getting a tattoo. You have one? I do. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. I was more nervous about that than doing the race. Go figure. That's funny. That's dumb. That's really dumb. Tattoos are, yeah, although the ones I have are very small and took. Very, I hear like, Like, where is yours?

I have one here. I hear wrist. Hurt, but I have one on the like in. Well, and you got to see the ones that. Hurt. Yeah, 'cause there's not a lot of skin there, yeah, or flesh or whatever. Yeah, this the one on my inner foot hurt, but that was a long time. I was like, I think I was 21 and then yeah. Well, and it's still there. You didn't like erase? Or whatever. I still kind of like it. Good. So that's good. Why not? Yeah, it's only a tattoo. Yeah, at some point I'll get. I'll get more tattoos, actually. Not a girl. My husband doesn't listen to this, so he won't.

He'll just surprise him. Guess what? Guess what? But yeah, I'm so intrigued by them and I I want a running related one at some point. I don't know. You know, I like my temporary tattoos. I do. And we. We like your temporary tattoos. And I I think I sent you a picture because a friend of mine in the club doesn't like to look at his watch when he races, so he got the sticker that says run the mile you're in. There you go. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, it's become my mantra, kind of so. It's a good one. It's a good one for life and running. That's what I always say.

Absolutely. Yep. Yep. So yeah, so I did an Iron Man. Did an Iron Man. And now I'm channeling my inner Iron Man just to motivate me and keep me going with my coaching business. Yeah. So the coaching part. I love, love, love, love it. The hard part is start, You know, starting a business and letting people know what you're doing. How How did you end up with your? That's our own coaching. Business, great story. So, so I early retired at the end of 2020 and then and so January 2nd of 2021, I'm thinking now what do I do? Like I didn't know what to do, right?

So I worked, I got a job at Runners Forum and then I got a a job at TV 8 Brewing because those are the two things I said I wanted to do. In May of 2021, my company called me back and said, hey, we'd like to have you come back as a coach for new hires because they've gotten rid of all these managers that had a lot of experience that they didn't want to pay that money to anymore. So we come back and I liken it to being a grandparent, right? We're not grandparents yet, but like spoiling them and sending them home. So I'm not doing their review.

I'm just there to help them, right? Anything we talk about stays with us. And I was thinking I like this. A lot lower stress A. Lot lower stress. And they paid me as a contract employee, so I wasn't having to work long hours and all that stuff and I've really enjoyed them thinking. So then in 2023, I ended up going to coach training. So I did that. Tell me more about that. What kind of coach? Training, 'cause remember I told you I thought you were a running coach, 'cause you you're invincible coaching. And I'm like, oh, of course he's a runner, he's a running coach.

Yeah, that's not the case. Yeah. So I always say that like Rachel and Sarah and those that are coaches, they're the coaches. They coach people on running and set their schedules and stuff like that. Could I do it? Yes. Mine is more of like endurance in life, right? So whether it's at home, whether it's work and just kind of talking about issues that people have and what I found out as I started telling people I was doing it that are like, well, you've been doing that all your life. Because I'm curious. I've always been curious. Like when I met you, I wanted to find something we had in common.

Because I'm a connector. Yeah, so that's you. That's, that was kind of the beginning of it. And here we are today. Yeah, yeah, here we are. I recently saw you share something on Instagram. I think it was like an analogy of a bike. I thought it was a really good way to describe and I don't know if you can think of all of it off the top of your head, if not like link to it in the show notes, but it was a good way to describe. OK, like what is a coach compared to therapist and all the, you know, all the other things, right?

Like, how does that fit in to somebody's life? No, that's a good question. Because a consultant, you're paying them. They're trying to tell you what to do, right? They're going to tell you how a bike is made and all that kind of stuff. A counselor is going to talk about the history of the bike, like where the bike came and all that kind of stuff. A coach is the one that I'm sure you know this. When you teach your girls how to ride a bike, you're like, hey, I'm here with you. I'm going to be with you as you ride it. You can do this.

That's that's what a coach does. So the coach doesn't do the work the person being coached does. And the great thing is they realize that they can do it right, Your daughter, all of a sudden, these your daughters start to figure things out like, hey, you're doing it. I'm not doing it for you. Yeah. And that's the thing I love about coaching, 'cause you get to see people, like, overcome stuff that they didn't think they could overcome. Yeah, only accountability factor of it, I think is just such a big portion of it. Like for for running now I've had Rachel for years, right? I could, I could be like, all right, well, now I get it.

I could build on this like kind of the framework you've given me and go do it, but then, you know, there's nobody there. Hold me accountable. Yes. Getting on a call with me before the race saying let's talk through our plan, how are you feeling, what are we doing? I know it's just that accountability and partnership that I think is really valuable. So I could see how that applies to life in general as well. Do you have any specific and actually when we met for coffee, I think you were still and probably are still working through like who is your ideal customer or person that you work with?

First of all, I always tell people I can coach anyone, but I am working on it. I would say that one of the big things I'm talking about is people again personally or at work that that could use that endurance mindset, you know, to overcome things like, you know, you and I talk a lot about stay in the mile you're in. You know I kind of feel, I don't know where you feel on the spectrum of a marathon for your business. For me, I think I'm in mile three or four. And what do we think of when we're in mile three or four? Take it easy.

We know it's a long race. We don't want to over exert. Same thing with my coaching practice, like I'm I'm newer to this. I know how to coach. I'm learning the business. That was part of the reason I wanted to meet you. Besides, I was intrigued by your podcast. So then you and I turns out we have things in common. So then you start getting the word out. Right, so. Yeah, but yeah, it's a it's a it's a marathon, not a Sprint in starting a coaching business. And I'm not. I'm learning. Same thing when I tell people to come, you know, if they want to be coached, don't be afraid.

Like it's not. There's nothing wrong with it if you come to it because a lot of lot of times I'll tell them you have the answer. I don't know the answer I. You're going to do it. I can tell you what to do, but that might not be the right thing and that for them to figure it out by themselves, it's amazing and. Back to the coaching certification stuff you did, how did you know what types of certification to get? What was that process like? Did you go somewhere? Did you do it virtually? It was virtually. It was 6 days. It was like from what was it like 8:00 to 5:00 or 8:00 to 6:00?

I was trashed by the 6th day. But it was really good. You talk about coaching. They kind of talk about certifications. What's next? You know, at some point we had to do a practicum where we'd be recorded doing a coaching and then they then they would critique it and kind of learned a little bit about the business. So a friend of mine had gone through the training and that's kind of what got me going. Then I thought, oh, that sounds cool, so. Yeah, Well, I feel like I see a lot of different types of certifications out there, too. Is that the first one that you've done?

And then to your point, like, you know, some marathon, not a Sprint. Like, hey, I'm going to use this and then figure out kind of what else. Maybe as you decide more of what you want to focus on, kind of what to do. Yes, yes. So it was over 70 hours of professionally coached training. So we did that. And now I'm working toward they have ACC, so there's associate certified coach and then there's professional certified coach and then there's master certified coach. And all of them involve so many coaching hours, paid coaching hours. Gotcha. And then usually a test and then usually some kind of recorded session that gets reviewed.

OK. And what's the organization that is in charge of all these things? It's the International Coaching Federation. Cool. So ICF. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. It's a whole new world. So I'm continuing to learn, right? And I'm a lifelong learner, so I'm walking the talk. Yeah. She is. She's a teacher, Teaches in Brownsburg, OH. God bless her. Yeah, God bless her. And she's taught in various places. She really likes coat or working there. You know what I say? Teachers are coaches. They're asking questions. They're curious. They get the kids to do the work. She doesn't do the work. For them, right. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I could never do it.

No the chance. Certainly can't I Actually, I volunteer at my kids school now and she's in kindergarten so it's my first real like, foray into. How does that feel? It feels weird to have a kid in school and I'm learning a lot. Talk about learning. There's just so many little aspects to, you know, all the politics of the school dynamics and just figuring things out. And but every time I'm in there volunteering, I'm just like these people are Saints. Saints I I'm not built. I'm not wired. For that, yeah. They have teacher voices. Like, it's just amazing how they command a room. I'm like, Oh yeah, if only my kid would listen to me.

Like this teacher is listening to me well. And my wife has a look too. She'll do that sometimes at home. And I'm like, oh, there's the teacher look. Yeah, are your How old are your kids? 28 and 24. OK, Boys or girls? Both girls. Both girls. So you and I can relate. Yeah, that's right. I remember that. And they're both married. Or one's married. No. Neither one. Either one. No. I swear, OK? Not yet, but not at least I don't know. Well, jeez, what the surprise, dad. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, that'll be, that'll be fun. Are they either of them have boyfriends? Yeah. All right.

So do you like them? I can't. I do. Well, that's good. You have to say that though. No, I didn't, because I would go. Are you sure about this, honey? Let's talk about. It, yeah, that's something that as a parent, like obviously kindergartener, I don't really have. You know there's no boyfriends. Wait, but wait till they get older. Especially. It's terrifying, Yeah, he'll. Be like nobody's dating my. Daughters. Well, I mean, she had a neighborhood friend that was kind of they they called each other. And I'm just like. Here we go. Guys are 6. This is not. I'm not OK with that. My husband was definitely not OK with that.

Welcome to the jungle. Yeah, I was looking at my notes because I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything that I had written down. And one thing we didn't talk about at all is the fact that you rode a bike across it. The state of Indiana. The rain ride. Yeah, that's cool. One day from Terra Haute to Richmond, 162 miles. Yeah, yeah. That was a long day. It was a long day. What made you do that? Friends that like to do tough things, right? So there was eight of us. And then they have places where you stop and they have food and water and Gatorade and all that stuff.

So I said I wanted to do it again. It's something like come on, I can do this. Was this during your triathlon? It was. So you had a bike and you're kind of already riding and? The funny thing is, I did 3 century rides. That's 100 mile rides training for that ride, and I only did two when I trained for the Ironman. That's funny. So I actually did more. I also did, if you heard the Hilly 100, I did the Hilly 100 too. That was fun. How many times you get to stop and they have like cider and Donuts and for lunch I had chicken and stuff.

I've never done a race where you get to eat, eat. Yeah, like real. But it was fun. It was fun. There's no pressure. You don't have to go fast. Where was Where was the rain ride in conjunction with your iron? Iron Man's? This is another you listen to that. How do you say Iron Man? Iron Man's I still haven't found. That it was funny when you were saying that I was like Iron Man's. Iron Man. I think it's Iron Man's. It sounds so weird. It does. I don't. I don't. Well, the singular doesn't sound right either. The singular. Men also sounds wrong. Yeah, that's not right either.

Somebody knows I did. It you know, Jay Druba from Carmel Marathon probably knows because he worked there. I'll ask Jay. I'll ask Jay and report back. Yeah, absolutely. Somebody asked me about it. So yeah. So no, I haven't done another Iron Man. OK, but wait. So, but I did that. I did that maybe a couple years after after you're. Full. Yeah, OK. Yeah. Yeah. Do you still ride a bike Ever? I do, yeah. I do. Not that far. Right. I sold my Tri bike so that kind of closed the door because it just it sat up in the garage up in the on the rack so.

Yeah, you can always get another one. If you can always get another one, you want to do that again. My wife's like, wait, what? I thought you weren't doing another one. I was like, it has to be really enticing to me to go back and do another one. Yeah, it's too much work. I did. When I did the tries that I've done, I'd used a mountain bike, so shows you how serious well. I did it when I did Carmel try the first time I had a mountain bike. It was steel, it was heavy, It had the knobby tires. I mean, yeah, I didn't know what I was.

Doing well also, I was not about. I mean, I'm just doing it totally for fun. I wasn't about to invest in a road bike, absolutely 'cause I'm not a bike rider except for on the peloton. You rock it on the peloton. I like my peloton. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it's fun, but doesn't it's obviously very different from true, like road bike kind of. And you talked to who? Who did you talk to that with the whole peloton thing And she did a lot of peloton and that's how you found her on social? Media. I got a couple of those, yeah. Yeah, I had Lindsay Holt, who just launched.

Who's the young one? She's the young one. She just launched a a business actually doing weight lift like weight lifting, coaching. Gosh, that's probably not for her. Say it, but yeah, yeah. Her. Her story. Oh my gosh. Right. Yeah. So Peloton's been a cool community to be a part of. For sure. Yeah, although now that everything's kind of back to normal, like after the pandemic. Yeah. I I definitely prefer in person and outdoor, you know, outdoors, but it's nice to just get it done. Absolutely, yeah. How do we do on our list? What? Else, well, we're pretty good. I we said we were going to come back to beer and so we're going to do that.

Let's do that now. OK. Let's do it now. What is your brew of choice? So I like hazy Ipas. I do too. I worked at deviate and. And deviates in Carmel on 96th and Michigan. Is that the only location? OK. Yeah, I'm brain cramping on the name of it. I know I'll think of it after we get. But like we had it in we I had it there every time. It's on tap all the time. The hazy IPA is very deceptive. Like you'll drink it and you're like, gosh, it kind of tastes really sweet and a little orange juicy kind of feel to it, but it's delicious.

Yeah, I don't know what got me really into IPASI. We were talking about this when we were grabbing coffee. It's like, I I don't have time for beer. I don't like. I don't have time for anything I don't like. Basically, it's like, who has time for this? I don't care. I'm not going to drink a beer just to make somebody happy, like because they think, here's, here's the beer I have. I'm like, no, I'm, I'm good. If I don't like it, why would I? Why would I drink it? I used to brew my own. For a while. Interesting. I have a friend that does that.

And I liked it. My wife and girls hated it because I'd do it in the garage and you could smell. And I go, I love this smell. And they go, Dad, we hate that smell. It smells so bad. And they don't drink beer. So, So they're like, it just takes time. But it was fun to do, and I did it for a while. And then I was like, OK, I did that. Yeah, my friend who makes beer, they make sours and I don't do sours. So I'm kind of like, can you make something else? But so anyway, but what got you into becoming a beer snob?

Just retirement and you're like dabbling in things you like. Or were you a beer snob before that? I. Was I was before that I. You and I talked about it before we start recording. Is life's too short to drink bad beer? Life's too short to drink bad beer it is, yeah. Now you also said and this is probably a plug for athletic Brewing Company, but if I if I had to drink a beer because it was non alcohol for some reason, it sounds like they're delicious. You should try. You should try their hazy OK and report back. I will. You said you liked it. I do, and they also have another one that's just like a regular IPAI.

Don't know the difference. Maybe you could tell me? The hazy is it's usually less bitter. Like a lot of Ipas used to be really bitter and kind of a multi kind of a taste. They might even be orangish in color. Yeah, OK. And that's why some people didn't like Ipas, 'cause they're like, oh, I don't like bitter beer. Yeah. And then the hazy Ipas. Some of them call them New England Ipas. They're they're sweeter, they're easier to drink. The mouthfeel is much easier to drink. So OK. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. There's your micro. What is? It What is Gumball Head? Gumball Head is an it's a weed ale, Although it's dry hopped with hops that make it like when you're drinking it, you're smelling that aroma.

Yeah, yeah. And it makes it seem like it's a hoppy beer, but it's not, yeah. That was. One of the first ones we had Gumball Head, I Like and Zombie Dust. I like. So you can't go wrong. Is Zombie Dust Also, was that a weed ale as well? That is actually a. That's a pale. Pale. See. I know I don't know any of the names, I just know which ones I like. Yeah, and. That's all you got to do is just drink the ones you like, right? Yeah, well, in one of those, especially a zombie dust, like I have one of those and like I don't, I can switch to Athletic because I don't need any more alcohol like you.

Were talking about this dread. You like drinking that and then drinking. A Well, it's just trying to it's. Being responsible, I guess being. Responsible trying not to have a headache in the morning, which is I can't drink wine really anymore. Which is sad because I really enjoy a nice glass of red wine. But if I have more than two glasses of red wine, I will have a headache. It's just very sad. I'm not a wine drinker, never been a wine drinker, but I know I have a lot of friends that like wine, so right on. Yeah, here you go. So that's really cool that you worked at at Deviate for a while.

Yeah, that was fun. And they are always coming up with something new, like always something. I always tried everything. So when I worked there somebody goes, how does this taste? I knew what How to taste absolutely. That was part of my job is to taste them all. That's a good there was 12 beers on tap all the time so had to be careful. I had to pace myself. Yeah, I was going to say, because you're over in Fishers, so yeah. I had to behave. Be careful. Yep. Yeah, beer running specialty. And now you're just full on coaching mode. Yeah, yeah. Which is really. Awesome. I love it.

Yeah, I love it. So there's even a couple people who have a running coach and then I'm their coach too, which is. Yeah, right. Like. Well, I feel like, you know, I think I said this to you, maybe like tools in your tool chest, right? It's like there's a lot of tools that you can leverage. I think a lot of people don't take advantage of any of them. Yes, yes. Well, and especially, like, I mean, doing a marathon's a big deal. You and I have done them. And some people are like, there's no freaking way. Yeah, but we didn't just wake up one. Morning, right?

And be like I'm going to go run a marathon. Because most of it's mental. I mean, some of it's physical, but a lot of it's mental. Oh, so much of it's so much of it's mental. I finally listened to a podcast that David Goggins was on. Do you know David Goggins? I hadn't. I didn't know who he was. And somebody gave me a hard time about that. And so I finally listened to an episode of a podcast, and he's you're like, OK, Like that guy woke up and just ran a marathon crazy. But a lot of what he, you know, preaches is all the mental aspect of it.

Absolutely. Which I think that running is like I think it's probably 8020. Oh yeah, no question. 80% mental. Especially those last, you know, like 18 to 22, especially when our body starts barking. Yeah, your mind's just like, stop. Stop, stop. And I'm like, Oh my God, yeah, yeah. Here's a story I forgot to tell you So Our youngest, Katie, she and I ran Chicago together. She was 14 and in. She was in cross country training. She didn't tell her coach. I was going to say. And four O 1. Nice. 401-1414 and we and we bought bibs and we bought them from team and training friends and they go, you better run fast what the heck?

So they saw the final cause. And they were like, 'cause it was. The time under them. And they're like, wow, you did better than we would. Have. Yeah, they're gonna. You're welcome. Yeah, yeah. They're you're very welcome. Yeah, that was the only marathon she did. OK. Does your other daughter run? Rachel runs. She lives in downtown Chicago. Chicago. Yeah, so she could run Chicago if she really wanted to, and then she could do the Shamrock. I mean, there's so many races up in Chicago. I've done a rock'n'roll half up there. I don't know if they still do that one. I don't know if now they have the spring half that's around now.

I don't remember exactly when, but I haven't been to Chicago, Vince since before the pandemic. That's crazy. What's up with that? It's weird. I don't know. We just have. I mean, young kids would do that to you, but it's not far. No, I was thinking I got to get up there this summer. Just got to go 3 hours to downtown. I was thinking I could take my my kindergartner when she's out of she's out of school and I have a couple weeks that she's out of camp. I was thinking, oh, I'll just, I'll get on that train that's like 5. Hours and. It'd be a whole thing.

Just know you got to entertain them for five hours. Well, but it's better than driving. Better than driving. I'm with you, yeah. No traffic. There's a lot to do up. There. Yeah, so. Yeah, so hold on your To Do List think. About that, yeah, I'll put it on my list. The other thing I want to talk to you about, you talked about LLS already, the Leukemia Lymphoma Society and giving back and we talked about Andy's Angels. And then you mentioned your your mom has dementia. She does. And I don't, I don't know that we talked about this when we would have met. We didn't. We have that.

You know, you and I talked a lot. Oh, do we? Well, not my mom. At least not yet. But my my grandmother's, my mom's mom, My dad's mom. Even like my step grandma. Like all, I mean all my grandmas. Oh, wow. I'm sorry to hear that. So I'm sorry to hear that. Your mom? And my grandma and. Your grandma. My grandma passed away from it and just the ending years was horrible. So unlike how she was. She was the most loving grandma and at the end it was awful. It's the worst. It is such a cruel disease because, you know, I'm, I'm sure it's scary for the person that has it.

Yeah. But after a time, they don't know they have it anymore, probably. But it just tortures everybody that loves them. Yeah, it's just really hard. And I saw her last weekend, which was really good, and I just don't want that day where she doesn't Remember Me right and it could come. Yeah, yeah. Where is she? Does she live locally? She lives near where we used to live in Illinois. So she's in. She's in assisted living and soon to be in memory care. Yeah, so. Yeah, my dad's mom was here in Carmel at a facility for a long time. Yeah, it was rough, but. But the reason I bring that up is to think about like, what's next for you and like giving back.

And you mentioned wanting to do something with I. Do. I want the Alzheimer's Association because I'm sure they have, you know, bibs or yeah, definitely. I definitely want to do that. So and like when I did team in training, I would raise money and then I helped two friends, man and woman of the year, I helped them for that through team in training leukemia and lymphoma, which is like, it's such a good cause and then so is Alzheimer's. So whatever 'cause people are passionate about or it's impacted them, whether to family, family, I would tell them to do it. Yeah, yeah, I I agree with that.

I know that the longest day is big day for the Alzheimer's Association and that's in June. I believe I've participated in years past in terms of fundraising and I did something they, yeah, they have local chapters for Alzheimer's Association and they do. I don't know if they have a run or if they just do a walk. I think there's a walk to end and Alzheimer's so. You did? What was it? The lemonade stand? Oh yeah, was that? Lemonade stand that was for New York. Yep. Yeah. And my friend, kind of, you know, actually she'd already chosen that, so. I love. That, yeah, But it was great, you know, great, 'cause.

So yeah, to your point, there's so many great causes to support. And I think, you know, as runners, you know, you and I have built on so many different races and it's kind of like for me, I've, I've been at the point where I'm like, OK, how can I give back by doing this? And certainly Ainsley's Angels is away. You know, raising money is always a way I also want to pace. I got to figure out how to do that for the first time. But I would like to start doing that because I think it's a good way to give to the running community, right?

Like our friend Trina. Like Trina is. This awesome pacer. I don't know how she, I don't know how she does that. She's she's a million. She's done over 70. Yeah, she's amazing, Yeah. Right. Is that right or is that the? I don't know. She's done a lot. I know that she's. I think she's done more marathons than I've done haves, probably. Yeah. No, yes, definitely. Yes, which is amazing. Absolutely amazing. I did pace two years ago with Fisher's running club at Geist and it was two years ago and it was hot and we had to negative split the last 5K to get under 2 hours.

It was just a grueling run, you know what I mean? And you really had to conserve energy. And as you know, that last 5K is hilly. Yeah, yeah. So, so that's so I want to. I would love to pace a marathon. Yeah. Someday. Yeah, not yet, but yes. Well, I think it would be a nice mental distraction. Absolutely. Especially if you're doing, you're obviously when you pace, you're not you know a goal pace that you're racing right You're you're doing a more conservative like if you're going. To be a good Pacer memo of those Pacers out there that are good, keep doing it because you're a metronome.

Just keep clicking those miles off at the same pace then, because then as you know, when we run with them, we don't have to think as. Much, Yeah. Yeah. So I like that. That's a good thought. Yeah, yeah. So at some point I'll do that. Of course, maybe at the Indie Women's Fest running festival, because that's where I I basically shadowed my friend Christy D, who works with the full MO. Which you should do. That's right. Yeah. Well, that's on my list. I put it on my list so. Yeah, but I ran with her when she paced. And so I kind of was her like, partner.

And that kind of helped me understand a little bit more about what it would be like. How'd you feel? It was fun. We did 2/10, which was a little too slow, I think for me, because naturally I want to go way faster than that. And I think it makes it harder to like. I think you need to get in the right time slot to do it well. You inspired me when you were saying, hey, you're crushing P Rs. Now, like you're going after P Rs. I love that. Yeah, yeah, gotta. I mean, I'm excited to see what I can do. Oh yeah, we shall. We shall find out.

But the full MO is keeps coming up. There's quite a few people I know doing it this year. Yeah, Last year we we it was unofficially at 96th St. in the Monon. We we had tables there and when they were coming by like Sarah was running. In for the Fishers running club. Fishers running Club. So I think we're an official, we're going to be an official water stop, but I don't think it's there. I think it's somewhere else this year, but I want to do that one and I always said I'm not going to run past 26. Two. And yeah, why not? There you go.

Why not? All the because that's part of Fisher's running club and just like the other running clubs, it's FOMO, right? You got to do it. They do. Come on. Yeah, that's why I'm not part of a running club. Good idea. I would be in so much trouble because I would say I would want to say yes to just absolutely everything. Oh yeah. It's hard. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh. So gosh, was there one other thing I was going to ask you about? Oh, I wanted to geek out with you a little bit more of like working and run speciality, but. OK, whatever you want to talk.

Maybe just give me give me your quick hits for like, the gear that you cannot live without, and then we'll do the end of the podcast. Definitely like a vest. Like a running vest. Hydration vest. Hydration Vest, but make sure it fits and it doesn't bounce or chafe. OK, which what is your vest of choice? I don't know if there's one specifically. OK, ask Sarah. What do you run with? I haven't run with one yet. I've used one before but not. I haven't bought my own, so I need to do that. OK, a previous podcast guest, Ryan, started a company. He's the one, the butt napkin.

Oh, that's right, butt napkin. So you should go get one of his hydration packs to try it. Sometime. Well, anyway, that sounds good. I usually the other one I have is that pack thing, you know, it's like kind of like a belt. Yeah, you put the little water bottles in, yeah. You can put the little water bottles in, You can put your phone in there, You can put keys. Yeah, OK. So I still think, like gels are important. Nutrition's important. Make sure you have something that you like, a hat you know to keep the sun out of your eyes. Make sure make sure the the clothes you're wearing fit well because as you know that otherwise that's going to be chafing.

Yeah, and so. I use 2IN1 shorts like I have Brooks two in one, so that's like a compression short underneath. And then on top. And then on top I like that so. And are you a Garmin guy? I'm a Garmin guy. Yeah, it's sitting over there. 235, what do you wear? Oh, you wear, Do you wear? I have a new no. No, no, I I put my Garmin on to run OK and I wear the IT starts with AV. Oh, the vivo, Yeah. Something like that. The it's newer. OK, I got it in the last handful of years. You like it? Yeah, I finally, when I got a running coach, actually figured out how to use it.

Believe it or not, I'm like, oh, you could put workouts in this thing? I had no idea. I just used it to start and stop. So the joke is, I'm sure you say it with your friends. It's like if I die, stop my watch. Oh. Or if I fall down, stop my watch. Yes, yes, yes, of course. Yeah, right. It's today. I wore my my No One Cares sticker on my watch. So perfect, not look at it. And then I, of course, was running with my dog, so I had to stop. And then all of a sudden I'm running and I'm like, did I forget to start my watch again?

So I had to peel the sticker off and look and thankfully, thankfully, I had started it. But I was does it. Come off pretty easily or no? Yeah, yeah, it'll come off and then. Hey, people go on her website. She's got some good gear. So that way you just don't have to think about it. You don't even look at it. I thought about just not running with the watch at all, but then that's too much. I mean, it feels weird, not? Right now it would help with my tan line, but my tan line is kind of a badge of honor. Well, that was just going to say we all as we gets nicer out, we'll have that tan.

Line Yeah, we will. And you wear the ASICS Gel Nimbus just around town. I remember, yes, telling you that that is my like, those are the shoes I ran in today. These are too cushy to run in for me. OK, So what is your shoe again? Well. Probably told me no. I I just got done wearing glycerin GTS and then I went to the glycerin. I'm not sure if that the glycerin seems a little bouncy. I was going to say you think those are cushy. The Glycerins are like super cush. Now this morning when I was doing track I was I did Saucony speed. I love my speeds.

Speeds are rock. I've ever since I started working and run specialty. Ever since when I did I found Saucony and that is my racing shoe and my speed shoe. I still love my gel Nimbus, my ASICS. And I bought the Pro only because I was working at Runner's farm. I got a wicked awesome discount. I. Know. And now it's so hard because I'm like, oh, I don't want to pay. I'll just buy the model. Before Well, that's what our chats will be like. Hey, they want on sale. Go. Get it? Yeah. That's the way to do it. Yeah, for sure. OK, well now let's ask the end of the podcast questions before I entire like I forget entirely.

So what is your running mantra or and or song? I'll just say LFG 'cause I don't know if I should be saying. I already said shit, which I think makes. It. Well, let's fucking go. Yeah, there it is. That's that's so that. Yeah, it's it's been that way. I don't listen to music anymore. I stopped when I was doing triathlons. So I listen to podcasts like yours and others, a lot of coaching ones, but I had two of them that I would listen to music wise. One of them is right now by Van Halen. OK, that's a good. One you're going to have to give me.

Give me some bars of that. Oh, it don't make me so. It's just a little bit. I'll tell you afterwards. OK, fine, because I don't know off the top of my. Head. You'll know. I might even play it on my phone. The other one is lose. Lose yourself, Eminem. Oh, yeah, I know that. You get going. You're ready. Just jump out of your skin. Ready. You're right. You're ready. Yep, I do love some Eminem. We accidentally, not accidentally. We played some out loud at the Mini because we had a speaker for in the in the chair, and I really should have prepared better what music I was going to play.

But we're like listening to Eminem and it's uncensored. And I'm like, somebody's going to complain that these girls were pushing this young girl and listening to Eminem and I was like, well. Did anybody ever ask you these two questions? OK, Yeah. Did I miss that one? When was? That that was my 50th episode. Did she ask? Me. Oh, she interviewed you. She did. My friend Alisa interviewed. Me. I did listen to that. Because, you know, I like run the mile you're in. That's easy. And then now I have a bunch more that I've collected as a result of asking everybody else. And then I like Unstoppable by Sia is one of my like.

Nice. Yeah. I could listen to that I like. Sia's music. Yeah, I don't know why. She's got some good one. But I did. Yeah, it's good stuff. It's good stuff. And then we talked about you want to do the full MO at some point. Probably next year because it's too close. Now, yeah, I actually like somebody. My friend Nate Spangle, who's been on this podcast, is doing it, and he's like, he texts me. He's like, you should do the full MO with with us. And I was like, I really want to. And then I tried to do the math in my head and I was like but I don't.

I want to be able to run the rest of the year. Well, give Nate credit. He's got age on his side. Plus, he'll don't. Let's just go out tomorrow and do something. I'm like, no name. Yeah. Yeah, well, then we got our friend Danya. Yes. Who is doing the full MO? And she has this fibrosa, so I'm like, well, shit, if if she listens to this, she'll be like, you should do it. No, I will be out there cheering, hopefully. I was inspired listening to her. Oh my gosh, what a story. Yeah, she's incredible. Absolutely incredible. So, and you also have the monumental on the book.

Doing monumental. Anything else? Well, Boston Someday. Boston. Yeah. What else do you? I don't know. In mind. I don't know. Just wait for tomorrow. Something will come. Up. Somebody will ask you to do something. You'll be like, sign me up. Have you ever done a Ragnar? I have not have you? No, in September I'm doing one in Traverse City. How cool is that? Yeah, so I'm excited. So that's where our race was. Right. So you're like the hills, I've heard. Now that it's. Hills. It's not flat. Yeah, I'll just mentally prepare for that. I mean, it's not like hills crazy, but more than they let.

On right, which I got yelled at for Carmel, telling people it wasn't hilly because they're like rolling hills. Which to me, still, I feel like it wasn't. It's not. Well, I heard you talk about going over that bridge. Yeah, that's a hill. Yeah. Just like, just like New York real quick, right? Bridges are hills, I learned. And Central Park is hills. I did not know that about Central. I didn't. Until. Until the day before the race, somebody thank God, told me the day before because I would have just pictured it being smooth sailing. So thank goodness somebody gave me that because I at least knew it was going to be rough.

I didn't know it was going to be as rough as it was though. So real quick running gem from New York that I learned run through both mats. Guess why I was trying to break four. Guess what My time was 4 OOO one. I should have run through that second mat and Ellen uses it at school to teach decimals. I hate that I have this object lesson because of me. So funny, but so mean. So anyway, there's my tips, I told Lisa in our group, I said, hey, there's hills, Run Run Hills. Run Hills for New York? Yep. Yeah, it's a magical, magical race. Absolutely.

Well, thank you so much for doing this, Vince. Thank you for inviting. Loved it. I'll keep listening. Thank you. I appreciate that so much. Doing great. You know I'm following you in your business too. Thank you. All right everybody, happy running. Peace out LF. GLFG.

Ally Brettnacher