Episode 64: Rob Mullett - A Person of Extraordinary Ability

Episodes

Jul 12

Rob Mullett was the first Butler runner to break four minutes in the mile and ran the steeplechase for Great Britain at the 2016 Rio Olympics. Now he builds finish lines for Indianapolis runners.

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About this episode

Rob Mullett grew up in Seaford on England's south coast, came to Indianapolis on a track scholarship at Butler University, and became the first Butler athlete to run a sub-four-minute mile with a 3:59. He moved up to the 3000-meter steeplechase, ran a PR of 8:22, finished fifth at the 2016 European Championships, and represented Great Britain at the 2016 Rio Olympics. I know Rob through my work with Beyond Monumental, where he now helps put on the CNO Indianapolis Monumental Marathon.

We start with what it was like to become a U.S. citizen in 2022 after holding a green card as a person of extraordinary ability. Then we cover his running family, his breakthrough 2012 season, the waiting game of Olympic selection, life inside the athletes village in Rio, the Achilles injury that ended his career in 2018, working events at the Atlanta Track Club, his Monumental 5K course record, and his dog Nala.

In this episode, we discuss

Becoming a U.S. citizen in 2022 and losing his green card status as a person of extraordinary ability
The difference between Great Britain, the United Kingdom and England
Throwing javelin and shot put in school PE in England
Coming to Butler University and struggling with 10-mile tempos on the canal
Becoming the first Butler runner to break four minutes in the mile
Moving up to the steeplechase and nearly making the 2012 Olympic team
How the steeplechase works, from barriers to the water jump
Growing up with parents who were both accomplished runners
Working at Athletic Annex and racing for prize money to fund his career
Getting the call that he'd made Team GB for the 2016 Rio Olympics
Life in the athletes village, free gear and light-up closing ceremony shoes
Why his Olympic race still frustrates him and the story behind his rings tattoo
Chronic Achilles tendinitis, a DNF at the 2018 Philadelphia Half, and stepping away
From the Atlanta Track Club to Beyond Monumental and his Monumental 5K course record of 14:07
His dog Nala, her doggy Olympics, and his mantra to stick to the plan

Chapters

Intro
Becoming a U.S. citizen
Growing up in Seaford, England
Coming to Butler University
The first sub-four mile at Butler
Moving to the steeplechase
A running family
Injury, green cards and Athletic Annex
Making the 2016 Olympic team
Inside the athletes village in Rio
The Olympic race and the rings tattoo
Achilles trouble and retiring
Atlanta Track Club and Beyond Monumental
Course records and local races
Nala the running dog
Mantra and next finish line

Mentioned in this episode

Races: 2016 Rio Olympics, European Athletics Championships, European Team Championships, World Athletics Championships, British Athletics Championships, CNO Financial Indianapolis Monumental Marathon, Indianapolis 5K and Monumental Mile, Monumental Kids Movement 5K, Indy Half at Fort Ben, Philadelphia Half Marathon, Chicago Marathon, Carmel Marathon, Seaford parkrun, Piedmont Park 5K, Broad Ripple Doggy Olympics
Organizations and charities: Beyond Monumental, Butler University, St Mary's University, Atlanta Track Club, Athletic Annex, Saucony, Furman Elite, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, Drexel University, Lucas Oil Stadium
Other: Hicham El Guerrouj, Bob Kennedy, Stella McCartney adidas Team GB kit, Nike, Wikipedia, Nala

Previous guests mentioned

Matt Ebersole (Episode 89)

Related episodes

Frequently asked

Who was the first Butler University runner to break four minutes in the mile?

Rob Mullett, a British runner on a track scholarship at Butler, was the first Butler athlete to run under four minutes in the mile, clocking 3:59.

Did Rob Mullett compete in the Olympics?

Yes. Rob Mullett ran the 3000-meter steeplechase for Great Britain at the 2016 Rio Olympics after becoming the fastest British steeplechaser since 1994.

Who holds the Monumental 5K course record?

Rob Mullett set the Indianapolis Monumental 5K course record of about 14:07 in 2015 and later joined Beyond Monumental, the organization that puts on the race.

What does Rob Mullett do now?

After retiring from competitive running in 2018 due to chronic Achilles tendinitis, Rob Mullett worked events at the Atlanta Track Club and now helps put on races for Beyond Monumental in Indianapolis.

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Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically, so it may contain errors.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones with Ally Brettnacher. Incredible stories and tales of triumph with everyday people achieving their goals and fitness. This podcast brought to you by Athlete Bouquets. Celebrate finish lines and milestones of the people that you love by visiting athletebouquets.com. Hello and welcome to episode 64. This is Ally Brettnacher, and I am coming to you another year older. I celebrated my 38th birthday this week on Wednesday, July 10th and it feels no different. I feel like at this point I'm just waiting to become a masters runner at the age of 40. They just kind of fly by and I'm sort of ready for that next milestone.

Weirdly, maybe it's just because I get some more of a buffer heading into Boston, but my husband did in fact celebrate his 40th birthday on 7/7. So last Sunday we were up at Lake Wawasee for the 4th of July, as you may have heard on the last episode. And then they're really 4th of July is on the 6th of July, where we got a chance to go on the boat and watch fireworks. And they were incredible. And now kind of back to reality of sorts. And my guest this week just celebrated his 2nd 4th of July as AUS citizen. Joining me this week is Rob Mullett.

He's so incredibly impressive and kind of again, one of those people who's not necessarily your normal person. He is in fact an Olympian. And I met Rob through my work with Beyond Monumental, the organization that puts on, most notably, the CNO Indianapolis Monumental Marathon in November. It'll be November 9th this year. So if you're not signed up already, mark your calendar register. But Rob is from Great Britain and he tells us a little bit about Great Britain versus the UK versus England, 'cause I needed a lesson on that. But he became AUS citizen a couple years ago, as I said. So he talks, we start out talking about that process, which is super interesting to me, and then we start talking about just how Rob ended up getting into running and realizing that he was super talented, you know, enough so to do quite a bit in college where he was in college, where he actually came to Indianapolis through his running at Butler University.

He was the first athlete to ever run a sub four minute mile. You heard that right, sub 4 minutes 359. Dear Butler, there needs to be a plaque with Rob's face on it somewhere by the track. Anyway, so he did that. He eventually made his way to an event called the Steeplechase where he was good enough to qualify for the Olympic Games 2016 in Rio. We talk all about that experience, which was super fun because obviously we have the Olympics coming up in August. And so it gets me even more excited just having a better glimpse at that experience and what it's like for athletes behind the scenes.

And we talk about a lot more. And we really ran out of time. I know Rob has a ton more stories, and so perhaps someday we'll have to have him him back to continue telling us those stories. So I hope that you enjoy this conversation with Rob Mullett as much as I did. Hello, Rob. Hello. How are you? I'm good. Good, Very good. Was this your first or second 4th of July as AUS citizen? This was my second OK August, August of 2022, yes. Congratulations. Thank you. Couple of years, couple of years late because obviously people can tell by the way you speak that you were born here.

So what was it like becoming AUS citizen? How's that process? It was a it was a little bit of a strange process. It was much easier, honestly. So I'd already had my green card for almost 10 years. 10 years. Yeah. So I my green card was expiring and I essentially had to renew it, leave or get my citizenship. And the citizenship was a much quicker process. The estimate, the estimated time for citizenship from January of 2022 was about 6 to 8 months and it was 15 to 17 or something for to renew my green card. Months. Well, that's crazy. And then with the green card you do potentially end up in some weird working months down the line.

Huh. So I went with the citizenship like. I'm going to make it official. Yes. So it was really pretty simple. Honestly, I think with the green card process, they have everything they want, so you just fill out some forms. I went through the lawyer that did my green card. She submitted everything for me. And then once you submit it, you just wait. You get a notification to say they've received your application and then then processing it. OK. Then you just wait a little bit more time and then you get another letter and it schedules you an interview. So then you have a couple months before the interview to get ready for that.

So how do you prepare for like what do you do they give you materials that you need to study? Or is it just more like a, hey, we're just trying to make sure you're not crazy? No, it's more of a, so it's two different things. So basic questionnaires on just like have you committed any crimes, have you paid your taxes, that kind of stuff. Had you committed any crimes? I had not. OK, good. One of the questions is also, I think have you committed any crimes that we don't know about? I think is on there. They really want everything. Sure, I'm not going to admit to anything you don't know about.

But and then you just prepare for the the test as well. OK, what does the test entail? So you have to write a sentence in English and then that they tell you to write. So they say a sentence out loud and then you write it down, and then you have to read one, do the same thing, and then it's the 10 questions from 100 on US civic history. I wonder how many Americans would actually pass that. I don't know. It wasn't, it really wasn't too bad. We just, we practiced driving around. Lisa would, we just had the questions in my car and she would just run through them and I'd just answer them.

And so they choose ten of the 100, but as soon as you get 6 right, the interview's over. Nice. Did you get six in a? Row right? So technically I got 60% correct. But that's. But it was also 100% because I I didn't get the last four questions. Gotcha. Then they essentially tell you that whether they're going to submit you for approval for citizenship, if you need to come back and do something or not. So I got the approval and then you're essentially waiting for the ceremony invite. OK. And then you come back and do the ceremony. Yeah. Do they take your passport picture and stuff?

Like at that time where you then get AUS passport? You have to do that all. Separate all afterwards. So once you once you go. So it's a little bit of a strange, it's a very cool experience, but it's a little strange when you go in because I've had, I've had a green card for 10 years. It's quite literally a green credit card, essentially. Oh see, I didn't even know. That, but you go in and then you give it to them. So you haven't. You're not officially a citizen until you've been sworn in, but then you've just given up your legal status in the country. So it's a little, a little strange.

I mean, you know, everything's fine, but it's also. You're like, but wait, if all of a sudden there was like a catastrophe and I'm my green card's gone, then technically. So yeah, and then I was one of the first kind of full size ceremonies post COVID, so I was in, I think it's like 115 people. OK. At the ceremony with me at the library downtown. Wow. Which was very cool. It is really cool. The library downtown is beautiful. Yeah. Neat. And it's, it's just crazy. So they do lots of basic things. They they have a guy from Immigration Services who seem to love his job, honestly seem like to really enjoy welcoming people to becoming Americans, which is kind of cool.

Really. Yeah. It's like you want someone to be hyped and excited about that. But you're here, not like, oh great, another one. Yeah, yeah. So they do, they do kind of like the, I guess just the basics of why you're there and everything. And then they do a flag ceremony. So they make everyone stand up from the same country that's becoming a citizen that day. Oh. That's kind of cool. And it's, yeah, it's just there are people from like, everywhere. Wow, do you remember the most random country? The the most random was Dominica I. Don't even know what that is. I think it's a island but the only reason I know it was random is the guy doing the ceremony.

Was really excited to have someone from such a small place being becoming an American so. That's really special. That's so funny to think about how many people were from Great Britain? I was the only one actually. Oh, that's a ceremony which was I was also surprised about. Yeah, you'd think that would be somewhat common. I don't know. Yeah, but no, that was, that was a lot of fun. It's, yeah, it's just a the whole immigration process is kind of like you do a bunch of stuff for a day and then you do nothing for like 3 months and then you do a bunch of stuff for a day and then it just kind of repeats.

Yeah. I will say so my green card status, I was officially a person of extraordinary ability. OK. And then now I'm an American citizen, so I lost my status as someone of extraordinary ability. So what does that mean? I it was, I just I had a green card that I got through my running so and it is first sports, entertainment and arts and belief. That's cool. OK, so say it again. So my green card was for persons of extraordinary ability. Yeah, I wouldn't want to lose that. Did it say that on the green card? Oh. It's just on the the immigration website I believe. I feel like you should work on getting your title changed.

Beyond monumental. I am a person of extraordinary ability. Yeah. Because. Yeah. Wow, that's cool. But yeah, it's, yeah, it's crazy. That was over 10 years ago now. Right. So, OK, so where are you from originally? So I'm from Seaford in the United Kingdom, so just outside of Brighton on the South Coast. OK. And so United Kingdom, Great Britain, can you tell people in England like, what's what's going on there? What? What's the difference? So Great Britain is England, Scotland and Wales, and then the United Kingdom is those plus Northern Ireland. It's. So confusing to me. OK, so anyway we, I think you can educate me more later, but I just think like I see, OK, you're from the UK or Great Britain or like technically both.

Yeah, both. OK, that's cool. So you were born there, grew up there. What? At what point Actually? I guess talk a little bit about your upbringing. So I think it was, I guess, fairly normal. I don't know. Nothing spectacular, which I think is great. And you have siblings. You at least have a sister. I have an older sister. Older sister? Is she your only sibling? Yes, Jenna. Yes, yes. I grew up in a relatively small town on the South Coast of England, went to school there, I went to university in London before moving to the US, and then I came to the US via Butler University on a track and field scholarship.

Now, when you committed to Butler, had you ever been or like heard of Indiana? I mean, I'd, I'd heard of it, I knew people that had been to Butler. They have kind of a long history of British and Australian runners. So I knew, I knew a few people that had been to Butler, so I knew of it. And at the time at least as well, they were one of maybe 20 schools that recruited internationally. I see. Or at least for track and field cross country. So it was a lot less common back then than it is now. Now you kind of have the option to go really anywhere.

Yeah, which is crazy. So did you, when did you start running? At what age did you kind of get into the into the sport and realize that you were good? So I started when I was in school, just through PE, and then went to a local running club when I think I was probably 11 or 12, OK, I think. And I would just go like a couple of nights a week, nothing super serious. And then just as I got older, I just started realizing that I was winning, that I was good at it. Well, everyone's behind me. I don't know what's going on. So I just, I just progressed that really just by gradually get getting better as I got older.

OK. Now in PE in the UK, so in the US in PE we would like run a mile. So what is your equivalent to that kind of fitness test in like elementary school? So it's split through the year, which I think it is the same here, but in the summer months we do track and field as something you do in PE. So they'll you'll do everything. You'll do sprints, some 815 hundred, they'll do like discus javelin, you'll you'll basically do everything. I. Don't think we do that here unless I just block that part of my memory out. Yeah, it is. When I look back on it, it is kind of strange to think that they used to just take down to a field and let's throw.

Javelin, I'm like, I don't think we do that. But. That is a that is like interesting to think about. Yeah. And like shopper, I remember doing shopper, I think it was just shop put discus and javelin, but like no Nets or anything involved. So you're just standing there with a line of kids? And you just better pay attention. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Lord. Yeah. And so when you really start to realize you're good, did you know, like, at what point in that path did you realize, OK, this is something like I could do to get college paid for? You went to school already, though. Did you run both there and at Butler?

So I did, I did run when I was at university in the UK, but it's not really anywhere close to the same. So it's just at a university. Saint Mary's that attracted a lot of good runners was the UK High Performance Center. But it was essentially you, you're just choosing to be there. But I was on the old university fees system where it was subsidized by the government. So I think tuition I think was around 1200 a year or so. So not anywhere close to what it is now in the UK and also to education in the US. Yeah. And it's three years undergrad. So I had two years of eligibility and I just ran quick enough over those couple years that I was able to get some interest from from some US colleges.

OK. So I came out and did my master's at Butler. OK. And would you consider yourself like a middle distance runner then? Yes. Definitely. OK, See I'm learning about track and field kind of through this, but I'm your average runner that does Rd. races. And so I didn't, I did track in high school for a year. So my knowledge is limited but I'm like OK, 3000 meters steeplechase that's middle distance. Yes, but when I came to Butler I was more 815 hundred, and then I just kind of moved up a little bit. I'm always curious. I should just ask him one day. But I'm always curious what Coach Roy thought when I arrived 'cause I'd run in, running on the track almost all the way out until I came to school here and I ran almost an 800 PR like a couple of weeks before I got here.

So I was in really good shape, but for running relatively short distances. And then I came here and you get thrown straight into cross country and I kind of sucked for like a month. And it I mean, the season worked out well for me, but I definitely probably did not look like the athlete they thought they were getting for a couple of weeks. Well, so in the UK did you run cross country or you? Because here when you go to school typically you do both. So is it not the same way there or is it just how it was for you? No, it is. It's just the season's so different.

So the cross country season is really, really kicks off November and then I'll run all the way through March and then you'll run on the track basically through September. But then that doesn't quite align with the US collegiate season where it starts in August. So if you just run a full track season, you just come straight in and get thrown into 8K and 10K cross country. I see. Yeah. So you're like. Yeah. Just trying to figure out how to navigate that, yeah. And I'd just been doing workouts on the track that was super short and super fast. And then I get to Butler and we're doing like 10 mile tempos on the canal.

Right. Which, for people who don't know, is like Gravelly. Yeah, it's like kind of a slow. It's a nice surface to run on, but it's. For speed would be, yeah, a little tough to get used to if you were, if you were used to running on the track, yeah. So physiologically, I just hadn't been training to get anywhere close to doing that kind of stuff. And then I'd never run a 10 mile tempo ever in my life either. So it was like new training and I wasn't really prepared for it and I just kind of sucked for a few weeks. Was there anyone else in the same boat on the team?

I think so. I think I came with five other British athletes OK and I think we were all a little bit in the same boat. That's helpful. At least you weren't the only one. Yeah. So you could be like. Or did you all just pretend like you had it all together? Or were you like, like, is this killing you too? Or is it just me? I think no, I think we were all in the same boat like this is This is like rough and very new. Yeah, this is very different. And it was so hot. It was just like it was totally different to what we'd all been in.

Right, because the seasonality now where you grew up in the UK, what's the weather in seasonality like compared to Indiana? Is in the winter maybe like 30° and wet and then the summer maybe 70 and sunny. It's like really nice in the summer and just kind of wet, damp, cold in the winter. OK. So just not the extremes that we get here? Were you choosing between Butler and other schools? How'd you pick? So I was looking at three schools, but I kind of, I liked the Butler coach. I knew people that had been here so I had a little bit more background into it and it just seemed a good fit and ultimately I was only intending to be here for two years.

Which is wild. Yeah, no, it definitely is. So it's kind of like it wasn't, it didn't really seem like that big of a life decision to make, honestly, if it didn't work out, it didn't work out. And you? Just go back. Yeah, yeah. What were the other two schools? I'm not going to say. OK. Oh, OK. Will you say offline to me? OK, because now I'm curious, sorry people. Well, I just think about like if you're choosing, Indiana is nice and flat for the most part, right? You can find pockets of parks that have some hills for training purposes. But like here, it's much different than if you were, I don't know, going to go to Colorado or, you know, other places with altitude and a lot of vert and all that kind of stuff.

So, OK, so you're at Butler. You thought it was going to be two years. And was that because it was your, it was the master's, it was the? Program the length of the master's, it was the amount of eligibility I had left. I was actually enrolled on a master's in the UK, so I'd kind of always intended to go back and do that. After your master's here, yes. Wow. So I deferred it and then obviously ended up not doing. It deferring indefinitely, yeah. But I just didn't know. I didn't know and I didn't really. I did education at Butler, which there was nothing wrong with, but I don't think it was something I really intended to do.

It was just your path to run. Yes, yeah, I understand that. So that was so I think that was why funnily enough, I've ended up using a lot of it. So it kind of ended up being pretty useful. But at the time it it was really just an opportunity to run. Yeah. And So what are some of the highlights from your time at Butler? I know one of them already, but you share it. You have to brag about yourself, Rob. So Bowler was, it was a lot of fun. We had a really good team, but then I had some lows and some highs there because I was actually injured most of my first year.

Oh, but I think the high is breaking 4 minutes and being the breaking the school record-breaking 4 minutes and being the first person at Bowler to run under 4 minutes in the mall, which was that was like pretty cool, honestly. Yeah, it was something I knew, especially off my first year there, that was a possibility and I wanted to do it. So it was cool to go do it. That's. Incredible, and it only just got broken last year. I was going to ask you. Oh my gosh, it did. And now it's been broken, I think two or three times since then. OK, well, yeah, that held for some time.

Yeah, which is pretty cool. Yeah, I think 1010 or 11 years, something like that. And nobody can ever take the first away, which is pretty cool. Yeah. Is your name on a wall or plaque or somewhere in there? I. Don't think so. Why I don't We'll just make one, Yeah. And put it in there somewhere. Yeah, I honestly I don't. Know yeah, I picture it, you know, like on the wall, you could go visit Butler's campus and there's like, oh, first to break 4 minutes in the mile and there's your picture and come on, Butler, that's a big deal. What's the world record in the Mile?

Like 343 it's like really fast and I rent 359. Which is. Which is fast in its own right, but it's not. Yeah. Like when you're talking that big of a difference in that shorter distance, that's a lot of time, Yeah, even though to us normal people that seems like very close. Yeah. And the world record is kind of an an it's kind of out there, I guess a little bit because I think even with the shift in technology now, you're still looking sub 33493 fifty is still really fast. Yeah, globally feel like the best in the world. So. So the world record's really out there.

Who? Who holds that? Elgar Rouge, a Moroccan runner from the early 2000s or 90s and early 2. Thousands. Wow, I've never even heard of. Them no very fast. Yeah, that's, that's insane. I can't even wrap my head around that. I should have given the disclaimer at the beginning of this that Rob is not normal because, you know, this podcast is for kind of just normal people that run. And then I just find people that I've met like you, who I feel like, you know, is this just this sneaky incredible talent? Not sneaky really, if you just Google them. Speaking of, OK, well, I'm going to get too far ahead of myself actually if I bring that up.

So I'm not going to bring it up yet. OK, So Butler, you ran for two years. What happens after that? So I left, graduated, and then I stayed for a year. I basically extended my visa, which is an option when you graduate for every international student. So I stayed for a year just to like try and figure things out essentially. And I kept running for that year. So I graduated in 2011 and then and. Then so you just run. Did you hang around and run with the team? Were you then running professionally or like trying to get in? I was trying to get into the professional world, but I was running with the team, so I left.

But I had, I think almost all of the team I was on was still there and I was still living with the same people. They were on the team. So I was not officially affiliate affiliated with Butler, but I was around the team. And then, yeah, and then I just continued to get faster, really, and then moved events into the steeplechase a little bit more seriously. How did that happen? Well, I just knew I wasn't. I just wasn't a good enough Mila. I was an All American in the mile at Butler and that was collegiately I was better at that distance, but professionally it just, it would have been fun to do, probably could have run quicker than I did, but I don't think I would have gone on to do what I did.

So I essentially was trying to find really where I could excel. So I just had moved up a little bit and then ran the steeplechase which I had done, I will say done previously to come into Butler as a junior in the UK. So it wasn't like my first time into. The event. It seems like a crazy time to just be like OK, let's try this out. But so 2011 I made the big jump into getting back into it. So 2011 I ran a couple races that went pretty well and then really took that into 2012. And that's really where everything kind of took off for me.

I almost stumbled onto the Olympic team in 2012. Wow. I ran one qualifying at the time you needed two qualifying times, either 2B standards or an A standard, and I ran 1B standard and then missed I think the second B standard like three times. Wow. And I really wasn't that mad about it. It was, it was such a good season that I was just excited to have such a big breakthrough. It would have been amazing to have gone to the 2012 Olympics, but it I didn't set out that year to do that. Right. So that'd just been like icing on the cake of a great.

Year so I, so I just realized at that point it's like, oh, I can do this and I can definitely make the Olympic team next time around. So that was so 2012 was a good year honestly. And what is the steeplechase? 7 1/2 laps around a track jumping over the big wooden barriers and it has a water pit every lap. And then are there are there hurdles in it too? Says 35 hurdles, including the the water jumps. And there are there 2 water. Jumps just one. Just one, but in that many laps, obviously you're doing it every lap. Yeah, so it's 55 laps, sorry, 5 hurdles per lap.

So four regular hurdles and one water jump per lap. OK. And where are the hurdles? Are they? Basically every 100 meters. Roughly. That makes sense. OK, there's just there's one. And. Yeah. And the water, how much? What's the distance of like the barrier, the water? It looks humongous. It does, but when you're running at it, it really everything shrinks like the barriers and you stand next to a barrier, it'll be up to kind of my waist. But then when when you're running at them, they they just shrink and then the water jump, same thing. It's really not. It's not short, but it's not that far.

Have you ever fallen like and tumbled into the water? I. Haven't. Actually, is that do people do that? People do. It's less common, I think, at professional level just because people are more capable and generally fitter and stronger prepared for the event. But it does happen because you get fatigued, you get clipped, you can slip on the barrier. There's a whole number of things that can do it, but it's definitely less common. What is the barrier made of? Because it's not like a hurdle, it's more of a. So usually wood or kind of a it's either wood and then some places will have kind of a synthetic covering on it that's a bit grippier, which are actually a little better, I always thought.

Do you do you jump off the top of it? Yeah, it's kind of roll your foot over the top. OK, shows how much I watched that event. But but it's yeah, it's a. It's a fun event. That's really cool. So you discover this and you're like kicking ass almost on the Olympics and you're like, OK, did you have an Olympic dream as a child, like growing up? Yeah, so I I came from a family that that ran. Both my parents were very good runners. OK, define very good. So my dad ran world cross country I think four times, ran the steeplechase. He ran 840 in like the 60s and late 60s early 70s.

And what's your PR in that? Distance 822. OK. And then my mom. How's he feel about that? That's what it is, yeah. Sorry, Dad. And then my mom was kind of a four hundred 800 runner. She ran 54 seconds for 400 and I think 2O2O5, maybe 204 for 800. Wow. So they were good, but I never really felt any pressure to do it. I didn't even have a clue. My dad really ran for the longest time. It's just kind of like a thing that. Did he like so he doesn't necessarily run now. He does now. OK, he actually just ran a twin I'm going to miss.

Call him. And he'll be OK. I'll like edit over it. He'll. Be mad. He just did the seafood Park run and I think he ran 21, 45 and he's 75. And that's a 55K. Yeah. Oh my Lord. Yeah. 75. Wow. OK, so it's in your blood. Yes, I think so. Did your dad get anywhere close like to the Olympics? You said world cost country. What does that mean? That's just the international cross country every couple years, OK. There's so many of those types of things that I need somebody to like, make a poster of all of them. So I understand because I'm like, wait, because you also had, what was it, the great, the Great Britain World Championships?

So we have the UK Championships and then there's there are a lot of championships but essentially every four years there's the Olympics. Every two years is the World Championships, which is basically the Olympics without the same name and not multi sport, but it's winning a world championship is essentially equal to winning in Olympic Games. Well, in a straight up achievement to achievement, you're being the same people. If you do that. The perceived values I think different but but essentially it's the same. And then there's European and Commonwealth European Championships and Commonwealth Games also happening there for European and British athletes, but they're just the area championships.

Have you competed in all of those? I've done European Championships twice, the Olympic Games and the World Championships. I never went to the Commonwealth Games. OK, why not? I never got. Selected still all those things. That's insane to me. Yeah, it's it like I really, it was like a great time. You get to travel all over, get to compete, get to meet all sorts of people everywhere. And so that all happens like after your Goodyear, like the 2012 year, you're like, OK, And so then things start to take off. And so that's when you start qualifying for and participating in these events. Yeah, so 20/20/12 was the first year I really started traveling.

I think 2012 was a year. Once I realized because I I opened up my season out in California and just missed the Olympic B standard. So I went back to California a few weeks later and ran the B standard. And then I was like, oh, maybe we can do this. I don't know. But I think I think from about the third week of May in 2012 through the end of June, I travelled endlessly. I went back to the UK, ran British Rd. Mall Championships and I ran a steeple in Germany and Turkey, then ran the British Championships and then I think then I went to Helsinki for the European Championships.

Oh, cool. And that was where was Helsinki, Finland. Finland. And that was all in the space of I think 9 weeks or something. It was. Like I was. Like ready for a break I think after doing all that. Yeah, OK, pause for a second. Where does Lisa come in? Did you meet Lisa in school or after? So I I knew her from Butler OK through mutual friends but not till like 2013. OK, so you did a lot of this before you met her or? Started dating so I actually spent some time back in the UK in 2012. Right, because you're doing all this. Yeah, so I ended up back there for I think nine months, something like that, as she was intending not to come back.

I was kind of moved. I was living in London. I had a job. I was like, really wasn't intending to come back. And then I did. It's so crazy. Because I. Because I was trying to get my green card during all of that, OK, And then it got rejected the first time. Then I eventually then I resubmitted and then got it. OK, why did they reject it? I think I just had to submit more evidence. It was so it was. It was just a weird period because I didn't really know. I didn't really know where I was going to be. I'd moved back to the UK, probably thought I was going to be there and then ended up coming back here, I think at the end of 20, the end of summer 2013.

And so during going like all this travel and competing, are you a sponsored athlete at this point or how do you do that? So at the time 2012 I was not. And then that 2012 season I ran for after the 2012 season, sorry, I ran for Soccony for two years, but I got pretty badly injured in the summer of 2013 and that pretty much like ended everything for really through the end of 2014. OK. So it's kind of a, it was just a, it was just a crazy period, honestly, like a lot of a lot of really cool moments, but a lot of like just annoying stressful things to.

What injury? I bruised my talus and then did some ligament damage in my left. What's a talus? It's the bone basically right between the your foot and your your leg. OK, seems important. Yeah, so I I heard that the European Team Championships in June of 2023, sorry, June of 2013, which just ended the season completely. And that's when I moved back back here pretty much in I think the end of July, I think is when I came back. And what brought you back here? I was just trying to. I just didn't want to be in London. It was expensive and there's just way more opportunity in the US.

Yeah. Well, in Indiana, I talked about cost of living. Did you come back to Indiana or did you go somewhere else? In So I came back to Indianapolis immediately, but I was actually debating moving to South Carolina, so the previous year if we just keep jumping back and forward. I hope everyone can pay attention to this, but we're jumping. That's can be the theme. Yes. So the previous year in 2012, I was going to go down and join the Thurman Elite in Greenville, which? Was Furman. Furman Elite. So it was at Thurman University that they were starting a protein down there and I knew basically everyone that was joining it.

So it was a group mostly out of Ohio State. Honestly, it was the head coach. Head coaches from Ohio State got the job down there but got the funding to get a protein together. So I was going to do that. And then my green card got rejected. And that's instead of moving to South Carolina, I went back to London. And then in 2013, I was like, oh, they basically said I could come back. And I was debating it. And then when I got back to Indiana, I just was like, I think I'm just going to stay here and just forge my own way. Yeah. Which I feel like people would probably say I like to do that.

So. So what did you do then when you're like, what the heck am I going to do? OK, I'm in Indiana. At least you have somewhat of a network here, having gone to Butler University, so it makes sense to stay. But then what did you do? Did you have to get a normal job? So I started working at the Athletic Annex. OK, Yeah. Did you manage a store or did? You no, that was that was only when they had they had the one store at 86th and Ditch. OK. So I started working there and I was there all the way through the Olympics basically. So like two, 2 1/2 years, almost three years, something like that.

So if for those of you, I'm just gonna pretend like I know. So for those of you who are familiar, Athletic Annex is a run specialty store here in Indiana and they are fully local, right? Was started here locally. Yes. And there's an Olympian that bought into it. Bob Kennedy. Yes. Is that right? Yes, in in like 20, 2016 sometime. Yeah, OK. But yeah, they they just have a long history of runners. I think it's a group of lawyers that like to run are the ones that started it and it's just grown ever since. Yeah, and there's how many stores now, like 4? Yeah, four, I think.

Yeah, I think. Their new store in Clay Terrace is very nice. Anyway, so you work in run specialty for two to three years. Yes. While you're just, you're training then on the side. Yeah, so they were awesome. Honestly, I was able to, the schedule allowed me to train and travel. I think that's they used to go away for a couple months in the summer to race. OK, where would you go? I would basically go back to the UK and I would stay at my dad's and then just travel and race from there. Just financially is just the easiest thing to do. Really. And how did you at that point finance all that racing?

Just through working and then racing for cash. Essentially. Oh, right. So you had to, yeah, run fast. So I used to over the winter I would just race. I'd just find Rd. races to run out. Oh, you'd go like in Podunk Town or any it wouldn't be Podunk because they don't have cash, but like you'd find any race you could that offered a cash prize and just go crush it. Yeah, Yeah. That was the one. That was the plan that. Was the plan. And for the most part, I think it it worked. But but yeah, that was that was it really. What's the most you've won for a cash prize?

The biggest purse, I think, as they say. Not a lot, I think. I think like a whole $1000. OK. Like get one rice like. What's our What's ours at CNOI should know. That it's like 13121250 in the marathon, OK, I think. And then it's 1000 1/2. Marathon. So when you were running races, you know, we talked about you being more middle distance than anything, but so were you doing like 5 KS mostly or are you? I was doing 5 KS and 10 KS at the furthest on the road. OK, so I really wasn't doing anything, anything too long. I was it was trying to do what I could to make some extra money, but also not kind of stray from the ultimate goal really, which was to make track teams.

Yeah. And so did that happen for you before the Olympics? Did you end up on a team or did you qualify on your own? So. I know how that. Works. I had a couple of so I made the 2012 European Championships and then in 2013 before I got injured around the European Team Championships, which is kind of a. So the European Championships is the area championships, you just compete to be European champion individually, but they they have a team competition earlier in the season where it's GB versus France, Germany, like Spain, but you name it, it's like just country on country. And then everyone on the British team collectively scores points to to find out which country's the winner.

So I ran that in 2013 and then I did not race for the UK again until 2016. At the European Championships in July and then I went to the Olympics in August. 2016 was quite the year. Yes, it was 2016. I mean everything once I got healthy and then started running in 2015, like ran PRS across almost everything in 2015. It was great. Had a really good winter, came out, ran even quicker in 2016. I didn't quite fulfill the exact requirements to go to the Olympics in 2016, so I won the trials and I had a qualifying standard. I needed a second standard to guarantee it, which I never had.

So I went to the European Championships essentially to try and do that. But then at the European Championships I never, I just didn't run that fast. I finished fifth, which was a great performance, probably one of my better races overall. I just didn't. The race just wasn't that fast. But that said, in 2016 I'd run the fastest. I was the fastest British athlete in the steeples since 1994 and I was the first British athlete to make the European final since the same year. So even though I ran, didn't run fast, I was in a pretty good place I think. And then July 13th, I got the phone call to say I was I was going.

To say that's going to be so hard because you're like, OK, I'm not like solidified in there, but I think I have it. Yes. So that's a weird limbo. So how long were you in that limbo period? I think it was about 5 days. OK, since that's so bad, but still just you're like, I just want to make sure. Yes, yeah, you really just want a yes or no. Just tell me so that I can sleep, yes? Yeah. So July 13th is when I found out I was going and. Who calls you? Who makes that phone? I was one of the British team coaches, OK?

So it was like, yeah, it's like such a weird phone call to get because you're like, you don't know if they're going to tell you yes or no either because like once you're on the long list, they they could just be doing you the courtesy of saying sorry, no, So you don't really know. And then and then it's even then it double S down because they tell you and then you can't tell anyone until the announcement. So you can tell like obviously I told my parents and stuff, but they you basically can't say anything until the team amount announcement and the threat to you is that they'll.

Kick you off the. Team, they'll deselect you. Yeah. So it's it's just kind of this, this weird limbo of knowing you're going and then you can't really tell anyone and then you're talking to your friends that have probably also made the team, but no one's really willing to. Tell them. No one's really wanting to to give up their yeah. I'm like, cool, I would love to celebrate, but like we'll celebrate in a couple weeks or whenever. How long was that period? July I. Think it was. It wasn't long. I think it was four or five days again. OK, it was terrible, but still hard if you're like, around the people that you really want to know if they got in or not.

Yeah. Were you alone when you got the phone call? No. So I was staying at my sister's flat in London. OK so I actually missed the phone call the first time so I had to call them back just like. Did they leave you a voicemail like hi, this is Joe from the Olympics and. It basically was a voicemail. Asking to call me back. Yeah. And then which again is kind of like what am I calling? Is it going to be a yes? Is it going to be a no? Who knows? Then you have to get, like mentally prepared to make that call. Yeah, OK. And then it's just kind of the whole just whole range of like relief, excitement, just like just everything.

What did you do? Was your sister like watching you while you made the call or did you go like off? No, because I I, I can remember where I was. I was in the hallway in her like block of flats. Basically, yeah, I feel like that's something you would, I would, yeah, be able to remember. So yeah, just, yeah, just a unique experience, I think. And then did you like scream and jump around and or you're just like, yeah. Well, in case anyone hasn't met me, I'm not like the. You, I mean, but it's the Olympics, yeah. I don't, but no I, no I, I didn't think I was.

I think honestly at that point I was more relieved. Right. You're like, I knew it, but I didn't know it. And now? Because I because I didn't really know going in and then I'd been through the European Championships and then I knew I hadn't run quick enough there to lock down the spot as well. So it's just, I think that kind of took the edge off the IT was more relief than excitement, but but yeah, it's yeah, it's such a unique experience full round and. Then you got to go to Brazil of all places for the Olympics to be. I've actually been to Rio. So I'm just like, I haven't been since it was before 2016, right?

Yes. And so I never got to go when it had been for the Olympics down there. Like to see where things were. But describe that experience. It was honestly amazing. I just from leaving the airport to to get in there. So I flew from London to Rio and then we got straight on another flight to Bela Horizonte where we had a holding camp. So it was a couple of hours. Holding. Camp flight north of Rio where I was for 10 days I think. OK. Before going back to Rio to the village, so I was in Brazil, I think almost almost a month, like 3 1/2 weeks or something like that.

And Bela Horizonte was amazing. It it's like super nice kind of out there just being with the whole British. Team, is it a city like you're in a bit like a city, yes. Not like in the middle of the Amazon. Obviously, no, I did have to get, I think I had to get the hepatitis A shot to go there. It was in a different area where other vaccines were required. But it was, no, it was, it was just a normal city. They were like Cappy Barra just walking around, you know, there's like big Guinea pig looking things. I do I get those are in my like algorithm.

Yeah, for some reason, which was like, it's just such a now it's. Going to be more, but yeah. It's such a weird thing to see walking around but. Pictures of you you like. I think I think I do. I changed my phone. I was actually looking through photos the other day after you asked and then I realized a whole bunch of it's on my old phone. Oh. I used to have a Samsung and now I have a Apple so it's. You have them somewhere, but you have to go like that's going to take some effort to dig those up. That's wild to think about those things just because they're not like super small.

They're like the size of like a little pig probably, but like they look like little Guinea pigs. That's wild. That's cool. And then traveling to Rio, I imagine, like I just remember it was all about safety because there's a lot, unfortunately a lot of crime there. How was that? Were you like in bulletproof vans and buses? Were you? It was fine. It was like, it was fine. Yeah. I think it's like every, I know crime is maybe a little bit worse there than other places, but it it wasn't didn't really seem like an issue. That's good. And I think part of that probably they locked a lot of it down for the Olympics.

Yeah. And they'd had the World Cup there the two years before so. I think they. Think they were kind of ready for it, but I mean, I got I got a couple of taxis around and I never really felt like I was in any danger honestly. And I think when I think of just traveling in general, it was already no different to to any other place. Yeah, I traveled by myself there as a young female. I was in my 20s. Oh, OK. And I traveled there alone, but I had somebody on the other side meeting me to be like, Hey, I will like take you from here there.

But you know, they were just want to make sure like, OK, do not, I'm going to drop your hotel. Do not go anywhere. And I, I did, I had to go run on the but I remember just bringing my hotel key and like hoping for the best. And I think I might have had an iPod at that time. And I was like, well, if somebody wants my iPod, they can have it. I have to go run on the beach. So where, where was the village and what was the experience like being there? I I don't even know what an athlete's village. It's like, it's really like a small town.

I mean, it's, it's so big when you think of the number of people in there, but it's a self-contained just town essentially. I mean, you can get everything done that you want there. They've you can get your hair cut. They've there's just food constantly being served. Is it like in a? It's not. Is it like in a Conference Center? How do they build the purpose built? And then I was in an apartment with the different countries do it different ways. So Great Britain essentially rooms you with people on a similar schedule. So you'll be in a room block with people that are competing the same day.

That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be the same sport, but it's so basically it's kind of a performance to aid performance. They just don't want two people in the apartment being done and staying up hiring, and then you have five people that are still competing. That makes sense, yeah. But I, I was with everyone on track, on the track and field team. So it was I think the 110 hurdlers men, 110 hurdlers, couple of 400 hurdlers and then one 1500m runner and we were just sharing a just a big apartment. And were they all from Great Britain? Yes, yeah. Sorry if you said that and I hear there's now especially like they talk about athletes village being like wild a little bit like when people are just I mean you're all cooped up in this place with.

Yeah. All these amazing athletes and it has to be somewhat fun, but it's also you're like preparing for the Olympics, so. So I think it, so Britain had two, two apartment towers and they have one for competing athletes and one for everyone that was staying that had was done competing. Everything was separated. But generally like, yes, it's kind of a there's just, there's just so many factors that go into it because some, some people there got done the first week at the Olympics and then they'll stay and then other teams will compete the first week and they'll just leave straight away because they're still in season and they might have to go to some other tournament or something.

And then that's just so it's gradually everyone's just less and less people are still competing. But there's also a so it's like a fun place to be, but there is also you're around high level athletes and there is a level of respect to. To the experience to, I would bet. Yeah. So there's just a level of respect to the athletes still competing. Yeah, yeah, that no one's intentionally. Like, right. Like pounding on your door to a drunk while you're, like, trying to sleep before your race. Yeah, Basically, yeah. But it it's just a unique place because it's like everything's free. That's got to be weird too, yeah.

Everything's free and then it's just available all the time and then you're just not really an adult. You can just like everything's done for you. That's why. Did you get your haircut? I did not because I was kind of in late and then it was just busy. I was. I mean, there's, there's a lot of people in there, yeah. So you go like get a massage. If you want a massage just like, sign up. Yeah. So that's done through the your own federations though not. Not the whole Olympics, Yeah. So it's like Great Britain sponsors that. Yeah. And then all the countries will have their own services for that.

OK. And then there's a few, they have sponsor activations, which is like kind of cool. So you get like a bunch of free stuff if you want to go get it. And then then they have health services, which I feel like is a kind of a not very known thing for the Olympics, But but they have you can go to the dentist while you're there, which for me personally, I don't feel the need to go to the dentist because I can go to the dentist here. But if you think there's people from countries that may have never, ever gone to the dentist, you can go see a dentist at the Olympics.

That's like, mind blowing. Yeah, and just that kind of thing. It's just, it's just kind of cool. Yeah. What was the coolest free thing you got? Or like some examples. Well, I went to Nike Hospitality while I was there and that was just insane. Do you just like I like this jacket. I like the. They just, they just had like endless stuff to give you. Did you bring like 3 extra suitcases? So, so we were allowed pretty excessive quantities of luggage anyway. OK, so it was and then the whole time you're there, you have to be in team kit, right? If you're on, if you're in the village or competition, you have to be in team kit.

Which means you're wearing what they tell you to wear. Yes, yeah. So then so you're not really, that's all you have to pack really like a little bit of unbranded casual stuff, but essentially you're there in like what they're telling you to wear. Yeah. So. So the packing's pretty easy. So then if you need anything, you're like, hey, this is what I use for fuel. They probably have anything you could want. Or yeah. Yeah. So it's yes, you just end up with like a bunch of stuff, but then but then it's just it kind of leaves a room to like do what you can. Yeah, well, I picture you'd be like, OK, yeah, like all the clothing, I'm sure swag like just all kinds of Olympic swag, like gear, like technology stuff.

Like you could be like, oh, like they're headphones or like, I don't know. I'm just. So I got, I think the the coolest gift we got was the it's the phone I used for a while, but I have an Olympic edition Samsung S7 something it's like obviously old and outdated. Now that's so crazy. Does it? Have like the rings on the. It does, yeah. So the back of the phone has the Olympic rings on it and which is like just kind of a cool souvenir. I don't use it anymore. And now it's obviously very outdated. You. Got to buy like a little phone stand for it.

Yeah, I don't know do. You know what's funny about that phone is it got stolen in in Philadelphia in 20, 2018. This. Is when you ran the half there? Yeah. So I had my wallet and phone stolen while I was racing and someone did a whole tour of the Wawas of Philadelphia. Oh, the gas station like convenience store thing. Yeah. While I was running but but they they stole my phone at the same time, but it actually got handed in at Drexel University and I don't know how they even tied it back to me, but I ended up getting it back within like two hours because like some really nice awesome student at Drexel handed it in a.

Lot. You're going to say thief. Some really nice thief just gave it back to the university because they knew somebody might like to have that back. They probably just dropped it. Idiots. It was found. On it, how did they access it? Like from gear check or like from a tent where you had all your stuff? It was from the VIP area, which is, I don't know if that's still where they do it, but it's essentially where they had the elites. So this stuff was just in there. And then I remember getting back from the race, I really didn't well, I DNF. That was actually that was really pretty much my last race before I stopped completely actually, but I essentially hobbled back from 8 miles on the course and then I got back and I was like, man, something's just weird.

Like I don't, I was like, I think my stuff's in here. I was like then I was just getting annoyed that I couldn't find it. I was like, well, this is like all my like clothes and stuff in here. It's like probably just falling down. And then and I was like, no, this, this is like gone. And then you obviously can't. There's just yeah, then you have to like switch off credit cards and. That's all annoying. Whatnot. And you didn't have fun to do it and. And you just had a shit race and you're like, cool, now my stuff's stolen. Yeah, great. They were they were great.

Like I I think it was a one off bad experience. They gave me some visa gift cards to get me through literally having no money or credit cards. Like. But so it was just I, I don't know how it happened, it just did. But I did tangent that my Olympic edition phone was stolen and returned to me. I'm glad you got it back. Yeah. Thank you, Drexel student. I wonder how the hell they figured out it was yours. Yeah, I'm they like, no, I didn't. Yeah. How do you like cross reference? Like maybe they just were like, there's only X number of elites. Which of these elites have competed in the Olympic Games?

Maybe, but that would have taken. Time I wonder if it just I might have had the emergency contacts. Yeah, that's probably that's. Just probably what it was, but I don't know if I was really surprised I got it back, yeah. Thank goodness that's me. Do you still have your like, Olympic stuff? Do you wear stuff with rings on it anymore? Sometimes I I will around the house and then sometimes I just have some stuff that's really comfortable and I'll use it and then other stuff I just won't. I did honestly, I feel a little weird wearing it. So it's which is strange, right? It's like a flex beyond Boston Marathon jacket.

It's like. And then the and then the British stuff is generally unique. So it's all so you have Adidas performance, but then a whole line of it was limited edition Stella McCartney Adidas stuff so. I love how you say Adidas. I I Adidas, Is that how you really say it? Probably. That's the real way to say it. OK, I'm an American. But it's like it's it stands out. Yeah. Basically so. So you're not, I mean, you're not like a flashy guy. That's like, hey, look at my limited edition. I feel like I would never take it off but. Yeah. You know, but that's kind of what you're OK, we'll get to the task.

I also wanted to ask you about the light up shoes that existed. I've seen a photo yes, where have. So those, so you get part of it, they have you get all the kind of so the, the Olympic kit is basically separated into there's the competition gear and then there's loungewear, which is essentially just comfortable like stuff to wear around the village. And it's not just sweatpants and hoodies and stuff. It's just not competition, but like polos and like T-shirts and that kind of thing. But then they have opening ceremony and closing ceremony specific clothing. So the lights up shoes were specifically for the closing ceremony.

So everyone had them on. That's so cool. So they just had to be charged before going and then they they would flash red, white and blue. That's cool. Which was was it? Everybody had their country color. So that was just a British thing. Oh, it's just. Sorry. Yeah. OK, that's cool. Do you still have? Those I do, yeah, I don't know if they, I mean, I've not charged. I don't know if they work or not now. Seems like you should charge them. Up. I should have worn them I guess today. Oh. My gosh, that was so cool. I was thinking about where I would take those.

4th of July would have been a good opportunity for the fireworks. You should do that every year from now on. OK, Rob, I'm going to need you to do that. That's so cool. It's the right color scheme. It is. Exactly. So people will be like, where did you get those? And you can be like, oh, these these are my Olympics opening ceremony shoes. Yeah, you should do that. So. So talk about the actual race experience there. It was not good. I'm still bitter to this day about it. I'm sorry. And I didn't say bitter to me personally it was a total failure. So it just just not a good experience for me.

And So what? What do you think? What was it like a tactical error? Was it just not your day? Like what? I think, well, I knew going in that I needed an absolute A+ day to make the final, but I knew that was a possibility and then I wanted to really at least try and run APR while I was there and it just didn't work out. I think it was my first time running on a global level and that was a little bit of a shock honestly to to me. Just like nerves wise or? No, just the just the level of talent OK around you until you until you experience it.

You you sometimes watch it on TV and you're thinking, why aren't they passing that person? Like, just just move up. Yeah. And it's like everyone's so good. The only way you pass people is either you make a big move or someone starts to slow down because they're getting tired. Like they just people just won't let you pass them. And then you have to kind of think about, is it worth passing them at this point, essentially? So that was a little bit of a shock. I think it was like the first couple of laps I tried to get in position and it just didn't work. And then it just wasn't a good day.

I was, yeah. Just wasn't a great day. Didn't run very fast at all. And yeah, the worst thing at the Olympics, honestly. And I think unfortunately it's 2024 and I'm it still annoys me. Yeah, it's like, how do you I, I don't think there's a way that you just are at peace with that as a competitive athlete. Like you can't really just let it go, but at the same time you can't beat yourself up forever either. Yeah, I, I don't think I'd beat myself up about it. I just, it just wasn't what I wanted from it. And I I just can't be. I'm just not, I just can't be happy with the performance.

Which I think is just fairly fair. Yeah, you know, but so the the entire experience of qualifying and going and all of it was great. But the unfortunately to this day I still am pretty unhappy with like the the reason to be there. Yeah, yeah, the, it's, it's crazy to think about all that build up and all that experience getting there and then that some athletes, yeah, it's like for you it's like a less like an 8 minute race and for some people it's like 15 seconds. I don't know, like really that's all you have to do is like that limited amount of time for all those hours and years of work.

Seems hard to have it boil all down to that. Yeah. But but overall, it's been like it's been great for me, yeah. No, you're an Olympian. No complaints, Yeah. That's so freaking amazing. You're the first Olympian I've ever had a conversation with, so Yeah. And you have a tattoo now on your. Shoulder, yeah. Talk about the decision. So what do you got that? I got it I think a couple months afterwards and I was really debating whether I wanted to or not. Mostly I think for the reasons that I just said, like I wasn't really happy with the outcome of the games. But I think, I think ultimately it was like I also just said it was just a good like the entire experience and everything I learned and experienced qualifying through the games and whatnot, I think just made it worth it.

So I ended up getting it done. I don't know if it's yeah, it's yeah, I just wanted to get it done. I. Love it. I get it done here in Indiana. I did, and I just got it recolored about a month ago, yeah. OK. Because I'd been, I did never got it done. So I'd been the same as it was for eight years, and the yellow is kind of faded. And I was getting a few comments from the people I run with about what Olympics I went to with the four rings. So I yeah. So you're like, OK, I get it guys, it's time. Yeah, so I I just got it recolored.

That's cool. So I love I love the idea of it. I saw somebody commented on an Instagram photo of yours that was like, yeah, guys, just look at my you can be behind me looking at my Olympic rings. Like what a flex. Like you pass somebody and it's like. Yeah. So it's the the flip side of it though is when I, so I stopped really competitively, competitively running in 2018, I just stopped. And then I moved back to Indiana at the start of 2021 and start running with people and I just gradually got a little bit more fit. And then you start racing and I'm good with where I'm at.

I was like, I didn't really care. But then you, but it is in your mind sometimes when you're at a race that you have that and especially when you're not very fit because then you've become a target. And it's like, yeah, it's my post 2018 competitive running for me. It's just totally different now. Yeah. Like, I enjoy it. I enjoy pushing myself to to do whatever. But when it's all said and done, the result doesn't really matter. I'm like just trying to really enjoy it, right. And just. And if I'm happy with the day, it's it's good. Yeah. And if someone beats me, then that's fine.

Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. That's a good point. I feel like I would just always think about it too, like as a, as, as a motivational thing, right. You're like, OK, if this is on me, then I'd better perform like that. But that's also really hard to your point, 'cause it's, you're like, that's 2016. Yeah, not, not this year. So 2021 I ran the Monumental Mile, which is the first time I'd ever run it. And then? You ran it while you were working. No, it was before. Right before. Right before I started and I did it and I was entered in the open race. And then Matt Eversole, I think, I think he text me.

I was like, do you want to be in the elite race? And I was like, I don't know. Do I? It's like I don't think I've not been running a whole lot. So and that was the that was the first race to done in a couple years other than doggy dashes and then. Which we need to come back to. And then so I was just, I was, that was just interesting because I knew I had, like I said, I knew I had the tattoo on, but I also knew I was really not in good shape. So I just went out there to slug it out and didn't.

It was for where I was at, it was a great run. Obviously, if you just, if you put it in the scheme of past performances, like not good. But for the for that moment, it was good. Did you win? No, I was six or seven, OK. I ran 427 or something like that. It completely flat out like nothing else to give, which is not bad but it's also what I used to do mall reps at like a few years. Before. Oh God, thinking about that, that's insane to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, it's all relative. So so from let's go back to Philly real quick.

So at what point did you then run 1/2 marathon? Like going from mid distance to then longer distance stuff? So 2018 I started the season. I went around a seabol chase out in California that didn't go well. Been struggling with my Achilles pretty much all of 2017. Oh especially all of summer 2017 through that. It just didn't go well. And then I think the decision essentially was I just can't wear spikes and it's just getting worse. So we decided we would just run a marathon that full just to like everything would be slightly slower. This is funny to me, to the average people listening to this.

I'm also like, well, just just in quotations, just run a marathon. They're not just run a marathon, but I would get out of spite. But for you, yeah, it's different. It's a lot. I mean for you easier on the body, you're not running as fast to your point. I mean, I understand what you mean there, but it's. Just so just less stress. So then I transitioned to the marathon training and then it was generally going fine. I went up to Boulder, spent a month in Boulder training, flew straight back to Philly to run the half and then the intention was to run Chicago 3 weeks later.

But my, my Achilles just couldn't hack it. And then so I stopped at eight, 8:00-ish miles, something like that and then end up getting an MRI and I just had chronic tendonitis everywhere in my Achilles and surrounding just everything around there basically. So then I, I stopped, I rehabbed, I got had a PRP shot, continued rehabbing. And then kind of December rolled around and I was just so far from where I wanted to be. And I knew how far I was from where I wanted to be that I just decided to go on a day. Yeah. And I just. And then to that point I'd been getting, I'd been walking down the stairs sideways for like the best part of the year.

I couldn't walk. Getting out of bed like hobbling the first mile of runs before it would warm up enough that I could actually run. It was truly miserable. So then everything was feeling good and then I was just like, I'm done with this. I can't because it to that point, the end of 2017 and 2018, like I just knew I wasn't doing what I needed to do to be where I wanted to be. So I just called it. Yeah, yeah, that's hard. I Philly, I have unfinished business with it's I've actually said on this podcast that I've never DNF D and it's actually kind of a lie.

I realized because I was supposed to run the Philly full and this was, I forget what year, but it was before they split the races. The races are now different days. They used to be the same day and it used to be OK, you go here and you're doing and you're crossing the finish line or you go here and you're running 13 more miles. And I was very ill. It was Chicago was before Philly then, because I ran Chicago and then was going to do Philly as well. But I'd gotten sick from running Chicago, I think. I don't know. My memory sucks. But anyway, I shouldn't have been running anything.

But I was stubborn and I was there, so I did. And I opted for the 13.1 instead of 26 two, which I think was the right decision on that day, certainly, but also very painful to call it and be like, I'm going to quit essentially. But I thought that I might die the way that I felt. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it sucks doing that and having to hobble and be in so much pain. How did you did you get like a ride back? No, I just like. Walk. I just jog, walks back as best I could. I actually jogged. I can't remember who it was.

I jogged back with a guy from New Zealand who I can't remember why he dropped out. But sometimes it's just the quickest way back. Yeah. Sometimes it's also a mistake though, because then you can't get back into where you need to get into. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it was, yeah. And then I, I'd stopped for so long. My Achilles is essentially fine now, which is like amazing. I love it. Yeah, because I was a little nervous when I start, when I move back here and I start running a little bit more if I was going to make it worse again. Right. If it's just going to come right back in the area.

Yeah, because I really didn't want to go through walking down the stairs sideways and. That's crazy. That is such a runner thing to do to be like, well, I can still walk. So yeah, yeah, I have plantar fasciitis flaring up right now and I've had it in the past, but I'm just ignoring it. So maybe it'll go away. Probably not, but it's fine. If I ignore it, it's not happening. I'm in denial. OK, so before you came and came back to Indy, like to present day Indy, you were in Atlanta and you were working for the Atlanta Track Club and they have how many events throughout the year?

40 something. Yeah, you told me that. And I was like, oh, coming to Indy and beyond Monumental where we have 4 has to be a breeze for. You. Yes. Yeah, I love it. Like literally 10 times. Like, yeah, 10 times more in Atlanta. Yeah. What was that experience like? It was really good. I so when I was I moved down there originally to run on their league team and then transitioned into full time with the event team and they were they were great. I learned so much down there that I get to use now and with Beyond Monumental, but I really can't say a bad word.

Really enjoyed everything. So you were going to run and then with your injuries and Achilles stuff, you're like, OK, well I'm done essentially. And so I'm just going to transition to to being behind the scenes. Had you ever done anything with events before? So I'd done a little bit of event stuff every now and again and then I'd actually through my injuries, I was doing some part time work between the event team and community outreach. So I especially, I used to go to like all the all the schools in Atlanta for their kids program and all that kind of stuff. And then when I decided I was going to stop, they were just, they were great because they offered me either to maintain my contract through 2020 Olympics or they offered me a full time job.

Wow, that is incredible. So I I took the full time job and just went all in with that. And then how? What made you come back here? At Lisa got a job up here, OK. She didn't have a job she loved down there, so we moved. And I moved without a job. So I was kind of just figuring things out. Yeah. Yeah, and you're like, well, you know, I worked at Athletic Annex before, but I'm not sure that's quite where I am now. So, but I got, I just got it just timing worked out. They started with Beyond Monumental in August. So I'd done some various contracts work for the track club up to that point and just was making it making it work.

Yeah, that timing is great. What does Lisa do again? She's a pharmacist. OK. Yeah. So we're so I mean, I just remember hearing like as a member of the board, I heard that we hired you and I'm like, holy crap. Like what a hire that's amazing. Like with All again the NUM, the sheer number of events and in a city like Atlanta which I can only imagine Rd. closures and the chaos of that compared to Indianapolis. Yeah, it's it's all the same. I think that one of the good things at the track club was outside of the the really big events, we would work different areas of events specifically to make sure people knew what was happening on the course or like what's happening in the park or something like you would be dedicated to a different area.

So it was forced learning, which I appreciate it. I think everyone did honestly. But I think that coming here it just, I had so much more insight into what an entire event looks like, right? Because a lot of the time people don't get that just out of necessity because it's you. Beyond Monumental is a good example. The staff is so small, you can really only focus on, you can't be like Rob, go just deal with the course today because I'm really needed elsewhere. And so a lot of places don't have that luxury. But I think it gave me a good holistic view of events. Because you got to be responsible for pieces of all of these different events.

That gave me that whole picture. Yeah. I never really, as a runner, had a true appreciation for what goes on behind the scenes. I still don't think I truly do because I've seen now bits and pieces. But, yeah, you pick a topic and dive into it and you're like, oh, my gosh, I really never thought, like all those aspects would be something that had to be thought about. It is, yeah. Yeah, there's really, there is a significant amount it goes into it, but it's I enjoy it. I like to try and create events that are going to give someone a good day. Yeah, that's kind of my goal going into them.

Yeah, if only we control the weather. Yeah, just, you know, it's usually very good, right? Yes, usually. Last year was excellent. Yeah, Monumental usually is perfect. I've run the event four times, OK, Done the 5K twice and the half marathon twice and it's usually been like amazing weather. Tell us about your 5K. So I am the course record holder for the 5K. I'm the. Course record holder. Yeah, you are. And yeah, I did that 20 end of 2015. So it's kind of the start to my Olympic, yeah. OK, that's cool. And I just did it. They actually asked me if I wanted to do it.

I think I didn't really know what the was going on, but they'd they asked me to come down and do it. So I did. And I just wanted to to see how fit I was so. And you were pretty fit. Yeah, still stands. So I ran, I think it's fourteen O 7. She's what I ran. It was a pretty, it was a good day. It was a pretty rough end to it because I, I went out very aggressively quick and then, then my fitness showed me where I was at. So that was, that was it. But, but it was fun. I I've always enjoyed doing local races and just just running so.

Yeah, well, because you are here and because who knows if I'll ever get Jed Cornforth, our Executive Director on this podcast. Will you please break down Beyond Monumentals events for us? So we have 4 events now over the years. We have the Indianapolis 5K and Monumental Mile moved now to roughly the third week of June. And then we have the Monumental Kids Movement 5K at the end of September. So that's a free 5K for kids in the running club program that we have. Then October 5th this year is the Indy Half at Fort Bend. So we have 1/2 marathon, 10K and a 5K and then CNO Financial.

Indianapolis Monumental Marathon is the 9th of November this year. Thank goodness it's not Taylor Swift weekend. Yeah. And so for anybody listening, you could certainly volunteer. Still, if you missed, you know, you obviously missed the Monumental 5K or the Indianapolis 5K and Monumental Mile, but you could volunteer at our kids program 5K, which was like the highlight of my year with Beyond Monumental last year. Those kids are incredible. We do it. We start at the parking lot of Lucas Oil or one of the parking lots and it's just so cool. And then still can register for the Indy half. Yes. And then of course, CNO.

Yeah, yeah, the yeah, I think we're most known for the the marathon, which is such a cool event, but we do have the other three events through the year. Yeah, which I didn't know and realize either, and I didn't know before joining the board. All the stuff we do with the kids movement that now culminates in this event, just for the kids. The kids used to come to the big marathon, which I can't believe we used to do. It sounds like very difficult in the inner workings of everything else going on, but it's such a cool thing to be involved in. Yeah, really a cool program.

And then since when I joined, it was I think there were talks of making it standalone and then I think I was able to help make that happen. And then we've been working with Lucas Oil ever since 2022 for that. Yeah, it's so cool. Yeah, come volunteer. It's amazing. You'll be glad. OK, let's go back and talk about the fact that you have a Wikipedia page that is not up to date. So. So how's that? Who writes the Wikipedia page? You have no idea and you just like have one now. So I do not know who created that Wikipedia page. There is some incorrect information on it.

I haven't actually looked at it any time recently. There is definitely some incorrect information that I suspect is possibly former roommates that are just spreading. Lies. Spreading lies, yes. That's funny. But it but The funny thing about it is so the only thing I know to my knowledge that's wrong is my hometown. OK. And I've never lived in Manchester. I was not born there. But for anyone listening, there is a little bit of just general banter in the UK between the north and the South of England. I'm from the South, Manchester is in the north. But I suspect so. I lived with people from Manchester for a very long time and I think I think they might be the reason for it saying that.

That's really funny. But it has been quoted to me in a few interviews over the years, so I've debated changing it. And then I just thought, whatever you can shouldn't believe everything you read on the Internet. That's really funny. That's so wild. I don't even know how you get Wikipedia pages changed. Do you have to like e-mail someone? Or I think you can just log in and do it, but I think you have to have an account. OK, I don't know how you'd verify where I was born or not, but. Right. That's so it's an interesting concept because it says that you still live and work in Atlanta.

And I was like, we need to change this so that people so we can represent Beyond Monumental in Indianapolis. That is our Rob Mullen, not not Atlanta's anymore. So I don't know. Yeah, maybe I'll have to look into getting an account. Yeah, so I actually didn't even realize it said that, but. It did because I yeah, when you Google, that's like one of the first pages that comes up. So I really have no idea who updates Wikipedia pages. Either it's interesting. All I know is it wasn't me it. Makes me want to like make one of myself just because so that I can be like, yeah, on my Wikipedia page.

OK. And then I was going to ask you some more race stories. I feel like we don't have tons of time, but I do know that you have broken the finish line tape and a lot of local stuff like the Carmel Marathon. Not it wasn't this year. It was the year before. I've done, I've run, I've done the Carmel Hoth twice now. And it was the half, not the. Finished second and 1st. I think the years I've done it, OK. And then I won the 8K like way back, maybe like 2014, OK. And then most recently the 10K there. And that is that you have course record.

For yes, I think so. Yeah, OK. You're just out here sending course records there where you can. I like, I love that. And then let's let's transition to talking about Nala. How old is Nala First of? All she's almost 12. Because she's like everywhere in your in your feed on Instagram. She is the best dog. She's so cute and I'm like she's got to be getting older. I have a 10 year old dog now so I'm like feeling that but she runs with you. So we used. To she. Doesn't sell, she doesn't anymore. We kind of like backed her off fair a lot of things.

She's still very active. We just try and hold her back from doing too much OK because she definitely ties a little quicker and we just don't. She's been so healthy we just don't want to risk getting hurting her. So she hasn't really done much running honestly now for a long time. And then even when we were down in Georgia, we basically would take the summers off because it was just so warm. Yeah. So she's she's run at a reasonable amount, but less so now. She's retired, yes. So did you and Lisa get Nala together or did you have Nala before? No, we got her together OK.

She brought her home from CVS. That's random, but. Tell us the story. But she was, I think, somehow given up in the family of her old boss. And I think she came to CVS to be given to someone and then Nala proceeded to drag that person through the store and like, Lisa just happened to be there. And then we took her home on a 10 day trial, OK. And now we've had her for like almost 10 years. I'm confused, they allow dogs in CBS? Wow. I mean. So well, yeah, I'm like picturing all of this happening. So Nala is like a puppy, like just like a.

She's about 1 1/2. And a half ish. And so somebody's like, well, I don't want her and. Lisa's her, so she was. She was being given up because she couldn't move into an apartment. And Lisa's a pharmacist. Yes, yeah. I forgot that detail. She was so it seems less random to me now. OK. She was, she was at work and then. Not like in CVS and there's OK, I'm with you, I'm sorry. And then she met. That's how she met Nala. And then she came home. And you're like, who's this? Yeah, and then she basically turned out to be the world's most perfect dog. Oh, I love how much you love Nala.

So I will say the first time we got her, she was crated all the time, which I think was probably part of the reason she got given up because she's, she's a boxer, German shepherd, like tons of energy. Yeah, yeah. Then I think she was crated a lot and then she'd get loud the crate and then she just got wild. So when we got her, we started to wean her off crating. And then one day we were kind of like, we just, we just need to leave her in the house and see what happens. OK. And we hadn't we, I don't know how long we'd had it for, but not that long.

Like a week, maybe a week and a half tops. And then we're all right, we're going to layer out the crate and we'll go out for an hour. And it's kind of like when we think back, it's like an hour. She could have trashed the place in an hour easily. Oh yeah. So we went out, we got some food, and then we came back. And then we pull up to the house and then the blind at the front of the house is just like ripped through, right? And we're like, oh crap. What are we going to walk into? So we open the door and then everything is like normal.

And I think so it was our fault. Basically. We left the blinds down right And she'd she'd pulled the blind down, one blind down in the window at the front of the house and one at the back and that was it. She just wanted. She just. Wanted to see out. Yeah. So now you know, OK. And yeah, so she's and then she just has an ever growing collection of toys because she won't destroy them. Yeah, OK. She's stuck so gentle with everything. Weird, it seems like that her type, her breed, would destroy things pretty easily. Yeah, if she wanted to. But no, she's a she's an awesome dog.

And she's an Olympian. Yes, yeah. I saw that and I was like, that is so funny. Where was this? Where was this dog Olympics? As in Broad Ripple Park, I think APO puts it on. Don't ask me to tell you what the acronym is. Yeah, I don't. I've seen it, but I don't know. But they do a doggy Olympics every every summer in Broadable Park. I think it's in September I. Wish I'd known about that. One and it was the 17th year last year, so we just went, we did the T-shirt race shedding. I think that was it. The shedding is so funny. So the shedding we she doesn't really shed that much.

OK, she and then if we'd known people bring their own Combs. Right. Oh, like the Furminator? Yeah, kind of thing. And we have a Furminator at home. If we'd done that, we would have done much better, I think, because otherwise they just give you like, these, like, random ones, and they just weren't great. Yeah. And then I think the dog that won was like a Bernese mountain. Dog or something and it's like pictured as funny. I was like, which dog would? It was like really fluffy and just like insane amounts of fur, but it was just fun. Yeah, that's so fun. And you've won a 5K with her, Yes, which I think is really fun too.

Yeah, yeah, we won a the Piedmont Park 5K. Is that is that in Atlanta? I was in Atlanta. That's so cool. Actually some of the best prizes I've won. We got free hotel stay. Get out of here a. Whole bunch of gift cards. Wow. It was like it was pretty. Yeah, that was a pretty sweet win. I well, because you brought it up, prizes to me are always so interesting. So at this 4th of July race that I do up at Lake Wawasee in northern Indiana, last year I won a an inflatable pirate's booty boat. And I was like, this is the coolest thing ever to win.

My kids were like over the moon. And this year I won a Lantern. Yeah, interesting. But I was just so excited to see what I was going to win. And I thought my kids were going to be so disappointed that I didn't get an inflatable. They loved the Lantern. Yeah. Anyway, I just find it interesting to see what races do for prizes so. I think a lot of it just comes down to what they can. Or what's given to them, I guess at this this race, like they partner with a local shelter that has a bunch of extra stuff that they just give. So it's that's why it's so random, But I find it actually more enjoyable than something traditional because it's just so funny.

Anyway, that's cool that you got a hotel stay. Yeah, that's legit. OK, so is your birthday really July 31st? It is, yes. Happy almost birthday. Thank you. It's my child's birthday, as I told you. I was like, oh, July 31st. My birthday is tomorrow. My husband's was last Sunday. So he's thank you. He's 7/7. He just turned 40. I'm 710. I'm turning 38. Or I should just say not 40. And yeah, how old are you going to be? I'll be 37. 37 So you're getting almost a master now. When you think about your running quote retirement, like you've run some recently. How are you thinking about that longer term?

Like, are you thinking about, hey, when I'm a masters, maybe I'll work my way up to doing some stuff or you just kind of like, I'm just going to do whatever I want. I think I'm just going to do whatever I want. I like that. I'm kind of just enjoying. I enjoy going to other races. I would like to get to some of the bigger races around the country just to see them, but I'm really just kind of just whatever. Yeah, just want to do things that I want to do at the time and just have fun doing it. Yeah. Does Lisa run at all?

She'll do a little bit. She she doesn't love it, OK. Same with my husband. Now I think I've just like, ruined it for him, but you know. But she I mean she ran in high school and then didn't hasn't like or just do it sporadically since. But but no, I'm really. I think I run enough for both of. Us. Yeah, Yeah, that's how I am for sure, For sure. Oh, man, I could talk to you all day because we didn't even really talk about, like, all the insurance and outs of like, operations of a marathon and, yeah, like, advice for Monument. I mean, there's so many other topics we could cover.

I will advise people to go follow you if they want to see amazing photos of Nala. Rob, under score. under score. You have two underscores. What's the reason for the two underscores? Because I think there's an under score Rob Mueller out there. Under score Rob Mullet and then I also mullet is 2 TS. Is that how like the haircut is spelled? Or does the haircut only have one TI? Think I think I'm the I think the haircut's 1T. Yeah, I think so too 'cause I originally spelled it wrong when I googled. It everyone does. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. And so do you. Do you have any fun nicknames as a result of that last name, by the way?

Not really. OK, Disappointing. Yeah, I think yeah, unfortunately not. You didn't ever want to grow a mullet just because. No, Lisa says. I missed my opportunity at the Olympics. Right. Oh yeah, true. But you don't really want your Olympic photos to be of you having a mullet. Probably. But but no I I have not. OK, I'm going to ask you the end of the podcast questions now. So first is what is your favorite running mantra or song? I think with running, I think is for me is just to, to enjoy it and then essentially plan a little bit towards what I want to do and then just stick to the plan.

And then as far as I'm concerned, nothing will ever be a true failure. It'll just work out. It might not exactly be what I want to do, but it's it'll be close enough. And I think that answered your question. I liked it. Stick to the plan. Yeah, I now that I work with a coach and I have plans going into races, I do think about that a lot like, OK, like trust what you've done and that your coach knows that you're capable of this and just do it. Just execute on the plan or get a close enough right? And that's kind of how I plan races now.

But it the same thing's applicable. I'd rather stick to the plan and see where it's successful or unsuccessful and then tweak it from there. Because if you keep changing stuff like, you're never really going to know, yeah, what, what the end result could be. I have told my coach to change a plan because I said this plan does not scare me. I could do that. I want a plan that I look at that. I'm like, can I do that? I don't know. To figure out. Yeah. Is there that where's the point of failure? You got to fail to figure out? Yeah, Where? Yeah, To your point.

And I think, and I think if I can have a second mantra, it would. I think it's just accepting being uncomfortable doing things is I feel like a good place to be. Like if I'm not totally sure of the outcome I think I'm I'm on the right path. Right. Like, can I do this? Yeah, I should be here. Yeah. That's good for all areas of life, not just running. I like that. Yeah. OK. And then songs, do you listen to songs? Do you have any like songs that like pump you up? Not really. I've never really. Felt the national national anthem. I do like the the I do like a national anthem at an event.

It just feels an appropriate way to start. But but no, I've never really listened to music, exercising or anything. I'm just like, I'm content with my thoughts basically. Yeah, that's scary for me. That is scary. Yeah. Just because my anyway, I've done better with not having music at times. And then what is your next finish line or milestone? I think my next finish line is creating the finish line I. Was going to say the argument that are you constructing. Literally. Well, I guess literally, but also I think just it is going to be the full finish lines for the participants that will have our races.

I think I have anything planned that I'm intending to do, but I want those events to be great experiences for everyone that comes. So that might be a little, I guess deep, but I think that's really what my next finish. Line right. It's like built like literally building a finish line and experience for yeah, for the Indy half first or well, I guess what is. For the kids race, Kids First, Indy Half and Monument. Yeah, all the rest of them, Yeah. What are you quickly? What are you most excited about for each one? Maybe like something new and different that you're excited about. To be announced for the kids race.

And then I think Indy Hoff is just continuing to there's so much good about that race with the location and everything. I think it's just trying to enhance the overall experience. I'm not, I think I'm, I don't think I can really put into words, I think what I want there. And then monumental. I'm just, I'm really excited for monumental this year with some new course entertainment, some new things in the Finnish area. I think it will be. I think it'll be a cool event this year. Yeah, I'm pumped, Pumped for all of them. All of them. Yeah, Indy Half has become, especially since I started doing it once I joined the board because I was like, well, I need to do this.

I've never done this race. I just am so impressed by the atmosphere there, like the bonfires and the finish line area. Like all of that has come such a long way already and like all the events just continue to get better and also bigger. And I think this year for the marathon for CNO Monumental, we're looking at are we looking at better than like pre pandemic We're like. I think we're going to be close to like some of the bigger years, which is like, yeah, yeah, it's like we're back. It really is a great race and Indy has a really good running community that supports the races.

So, so yeah, I think hopefully we're on on track to a good year for that. I'm now thinking we didn't even talk about when you helped with the Olympic trials. There's so many things. Rob, you were really amazing. India is so lucky to have you here and we're so lucky to have you on our team at Beyond Monumental. Thank you. Yeah, I love being back in Indy. I've has been a good move. Right. Well, thank you. Thank you to everybody who's listened and happy running.

Ally Brettnacher